Useless 'Irritating Swarm' made WORSE in LU24 -- that takes talent.

[Gertack_v2]

<div></div>No, really.  The debuff is currently worthless and now you're making it worse. Good job, that takes effort.(As of today it is back to skill debuffs on encounter instead of single, but 1 minute recast instead of 30 seconds and no power drain, not that it did anything.)<div></div><p>Message Edited by Gertack on <span class=date_text>05-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:05 AM</span>

[Meattray]

<P>So your saying its back to old debuff, but now encounter wide with no power drain?</P> <P>Need a little more info please.</P> <P> </P> <P>Please Devs do not take away a debuff that works on epics, we do not have the best debuffs.</P> <P>If it is to stay a stifle give us reduced effect on epic, please do not take a debuff that works on epics away from us.</P> <P>People say it is a crap debuff, it is not that bad.  It is a very underrated debuff for caster mobs.</P> <P> </P> <P>Taylon</P> <P>70 Fury, Najena</P><p>Message Edited by Meattray on <span class=date_text>05-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:44 PM</span>

[Gertack_v2]

I got the info from the <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=17&message.id=13454#M13454" target=_blank>other thread</a>, just wanted to call more attention to it.<div></div>

[quetzaqotl]

<P>Just posting to say /agree if this change goes out with lu24 it will be obvious how clueless the devs are of their own game mechanics.</P> <P>In its current form this spell has no measurable effect in pve other than a very small in 99.9% of the cases worthless mana drain.</P> <P>Making this spell group wide doesnt help it making its recast 1 min is rediculous, theyve had this spell in their hands and have been changing it, it makes me wonder then why didnt they make it somewhat useful?</P> <P>I mean you have this spell youre working on that does next to nothing, you turn it into a stiffle (=useful) then you decide nah lets make it useless once again?!?</P> <P>Im getting sick of this stupid spell just remove it and give us another dot or dd I suppose that would be easier to code than giving furies some crowd control or actually a nice debuff.</P>

[Gertack_v2]

At least the power drain might've been useful for the PvP people (or duels, neither of which I care about).   Nobody mentioned the casting time but if it is still 1.5 seconds, at least I can finally throw it of my hotbar as never worth the time to cast, even in the vague hope it really does something.<div></div>

[Ryuugekitai]

<DIV>I used the drain on PvE already : against priest mob that heal themselves faster than I could kill them but don't hit too hard</DIV> <DIV>I would tank them with the screaming mass use manastone every time it's up and maintain the mana drain on them, and it works. One of the orcs in cleft that pop in the room after the blade master, next to the round table is such a priest, before KoS I used to solo hunt the nameds here, and it would take about 15 minutes to kill it that way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The stifle would have come in handy in such a situation, reducing the fight time down to about 30 seconds which would have been really great, but no ... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The drain was useful on PvP too, some class have too much DPS to allow us to do anything other than heal ourselves, and draining their mana shortened the fight a bit : once oom we could cast our LLLLLOOOONNNGGGG casting blasts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So yes the power drain was useful even if only a little, and made the spell worth something, but now ...</DIV><p>Message Edited by Ryuugekitai on <span class=date_text>05-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:57 PM</span>

[quetzaqotl]

<P>Got a pm from <FONT color=#ff0000>gallenite</FONT> (btw gallenite rocks one of the only devs that respond to pm's or read them)</P> <P>I asked what he thought about the new irr swarm (amongst other things so this is a fraction of what he said but the rest wasnt about this issue) this is what he said:</P> <P>"I'm going to ask about the spell change - That sounds unusual."</P> <P> </P> <P>So I have good hope this spell will be looked into yet again, lets hope they make it useful.</P> <P>Also again I wouldve liked it if a fury who plays on test would keep us informed as this is all second hand info.<BR></P>

[colonel75thr]

Does this go for the entire line? I am curious regarding maddening swarm.. It was being buffed up in LU24, is it now being nerfed?<div></div>

[quetzaqotl]

<DIV>irritating swarm is the lowerbie version of maddening swarm so yeah if one gets changed the other one will too.</DIV>

[Sunlei]

<P> Furys at this time have no encounter wide debuff.  </P> <P>Encounterwide debuff would be *very* welcome to me..i miss the encounter debuff we lost in lu 13 a lot. </P> <P>This new encounterwide debuff of casters focus/casting skills, if they could add a bit of debuff to melee skills be very cool!</P>

[quetzaqotl]

<P>Irritating swarm in its current form is trash making it group wide doesnt change a thing it just turns it in group wide trash oh maybe on pvp but I dont care for that.</P> <P>They should make irritating swarm a 10 second stiffle every 45 secs</P> <P>and madd swarm a 15 second stiffle every 45 seconds.</P> <P> </P> <P>That would make this spell MUCH more useful.</P>

[munos]

<P>Im not sure why they changed it for myself. i just got it a few levels ago and I liked it for the fast cast and extra damage it did esp for pvp. I have used it enough in pvp not to see if it is better or worse with the stifle. How about stifle with damage or interupt</P> <P> </P>

[quetzaqotl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> petscan wrote:<BR> <P>Im not sure why they changed it for myself. i just got it a few levels ago and I liked it for the fast cast <STRONG>and extra damage it did</STRONG> esp for pvp. I have used it enough in pvp not to see if it is better or worse with the stifle. How about stifle with damage or interupt</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ehhh what spell are yout alking about?</P> <P> </P>

[mystic5]

I think you have this confused with Killing Swarm.  Killing Swarm is a DoT that also reduces defense for the spells duration.  Irritating Swarm and Maddening swarm is a power drain and interrupt spell that stacks with the Swarm DoT spells.  If the changes go live as they are currently, it will free up one space on my spell bar as this will be PERMANENTLY removed.  This spell will be completely useless for PvE, and I see next to no use even for PvP.  I hope the devs pull their collective heads out and do something about this before it hits the live servers.  As it stands now this spell is all but useless.  If these changes go in it will be COMPLETELY useless. <div></div>

[munos]

iratiating swarm used to damage. Interupted on inital hit then interupted at end of spell and did somehting like 50hp a tick.

[munos]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> petscan wrote:<BR> iratiating swarm used to damage. Interupted on inital hit then interupted at end of spell and did somehting like 50hp a tick.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Maybe im wrong about the damage thing but I swear I thought it did but I went back and read the old spell description.<BR>

[Gertack_v2]

It had a power drain, not damage.<div></div>

[QQ-Fatman]

My suggestion is to make this line a mana tap over time. Then it'll actually be useful in all situation.

[dyf]

Did they drop the stifle component on purpose or is this a bug in the test update? I was seriously looking forward to the stifle.

[Asp728]

<P>To add from the newest great changes, I just saw this note:</P> <P> </P> <P>- Fury: Ring of Fire: Reuse timer increased to 1 minute.</P> <P> </P> <P>So now when it dies in 2 secs, you have to wait a full minute to recast it.</P>

[Goozman]

<DIV>Haha... here we are, needing an increase in damage to be ahead of freakin' templars again... and they nerf instead. I also found it funny they were nerfing wizards. What in the world is going on...</DIV>

[QQ-Fatman]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dyfyd wrote:<BR> Did they drop the stifle component on purpose or is this a bug in the test update? I was seriously looking forward to the stifle.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Irritating Swarm line:<BR> <BR>Now on live server:<BR>0.5sec cast, 30sec recast, 36sec duration: interrupt, drain mana over time, decrease casting skills and focus on a single target.<BR> <BR>Lu24a:<BR>1.5sec cast, 1 min recast, 12sec duration: stifle target<BR> <BR>Lu24b:<BR>1.5sec cast, 1 min recast, 9sec duration: stifle target<BR> <BR>Lu24c:<BR>1.5sec cast, 1 min recast, 36sec duration: interrtup, decrease casting skills and focus on target encounter.<BR></DIV>

[Dreg]

If I had to chose between Lu24c and what it is currently on live, I'd say leave it alone. <div></div>

[Rutabegah]

So they are nerfing a spell that is already horrible and now they are doubling the recast time of ring of fire.  Hooray for the devs!

[Sunlei]

<P>  I thought this lu 24 was supposed to take care of problems they had with control spells causing "stun-lock" on monsters. That means so many stuns that the poor monsters can't hurt back.</P> <P>Now it looks like the spell developer is doing damage spell nurfs aswell. Why are they fiddling with spells that have nothing to do with control and cutting spells that have already been cut in hit points and damage. Ring of fire's been nurfed hard already! </P> <P>Someone get that developer out of the kitchen! he's ruining all the food! </P> <P>EQ2 has that 'ol eq1 feeling..if you're not highest level with best gear...you'll never have the same game experience others have enjoyed.</P>

[Gabriell]

<P>Here are some current screenshots of our modified spells on test...</P> <P>I personally can't understand how a lightning bolt makes a mob immuned to Stun effects for 48 seconds. Must be SoE logic of 1+1 = -2 :smileyindifferent:</P> <P><IMG src="http://home.comcast.net/~feral.fury/public/cheetah_m1.jpg"><IMG src="http://home.comcast.net/~feral.fury/public/madswarm_m1.jpg"><IMG src="http://home.comcast.net/~feral.fury/public/callofstorms_m1.jpg"></P><p>Message Edited by Gabriellex on <span class=date_text>05-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:52 PM</span>

[SpritRaja]

The idiot that is doing the spells most likely read it as a stun to mob rather then a stun to us.

[Goozman]

<P>Haha, it does look like they thought it was a 16s stun to the mob... that's pretty funny...</P> <P>So the cheetah change sucks [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] too because it wont even work above level 56, and there's no upgrade for it... gj</P>

[Feodore]

<DIV>well if they think this is a moob-stun-spell  looooll --------------->they will nerf the spell again and again (till they understand their own developing)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but the debuff isn´t wrong as long as it works on epic...    </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>noone will see see  the real effect of this spell, but a  if the moobs is reduced 3-4 lvl in his attack-spell abilitys and his focu (so he can be better interruptet by others...)  well  i can live with it...   this is a real fury spell i think (not such a bäääh-defence buff like other healers...)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Feodore on <span class=date_text>05-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:06 AM</span>

[quetzaqotl]

<P>Yeah its a real fury debuff spell alright as in its crap.</P> <P>Gallenite told me in a pm that the change to irr/madd swarm didnt look right to him, so yeah it would be funny to see this changes go live.</P> <P>Also the change to ring of fire the idiotic spell change to call of storms, what the hell are they thinking??!</P> <P>Who in their right mind can push this broken [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to test?!</P> <P>This makes the dev in control of the spell changes look like a real [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</P>

[Asp728]

<P>LOL - they Fury hate is rising!  We can cast a spell that stuns us and gives epic mobs stun immunity for 48 seconds.  Swarm is going to be borked, RoF is going to be nerfed.  </P> <P>I find it funny that all the people who before stated how great we are fail to appear in threads like this that are obvious nerfs.  So now our healing is lower than other priests, our buffs are not as useful, we aren't top on damage with the 8 billion boosts they gave templar DPS, and our debuffs....wait, we don't have any useful debuffs.</P>

[Damaan]

Wow swarm line just keeps getting worse.  I remember it used to be a good group debuff, but now I cannot even see wanting to waste the mana on it.  I would be happier if they left it as it is because at least a power drain can be used in limited situations, or perhaps make it lower a group of mobs dps (melee or lower int for casting dps) by 10% or something small but actually worthwile. 

[MaNiaGG]

 It wasnt useful in PvP either before ... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Gabriell]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Feodore wrote:<BR> <DIV>well if they think this is a moob-stun-spell  looooll --------------->they will nerf the spell again and again (till they understand their own developing)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but the debuff isn´t wrong as long as it works on epic...   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>noone will see see  the real effect of this spell, but a  if the moobs is reduced 3-4 lvl in his attack-spell abilitys and his focu (so he can be better interruptet by others...)  well  i can live with it...   this is a real fury spell i think (not such a bäääh-defence buff like other healers...)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Feodore on <SPAN class=date_text>05-26-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>04:06 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Maddening Swarm M1 is 35 points of debuffing casting skills, which is 35 / 5 = 7 Levels (5 points per level), not 3-4 levels. The intention of this spell should work like it does in PvP where when you decrease your opponents casting skills it will void out all the spells thats between (opponent level - 7). This is how it works now in dualing where a 50 fury vs 50 wizard, the fury can prevent the wizard from ever casting ice comet and other spells thats between levels 43-50, assuming the wizard has no skill buffs (all casting skills at 250).</P> <P>The problem with heroic and epic mobs is that most are still casting low level spells, so cancelling out their spells might not be possible, even with multiple skill debuffs. In a way, along with the focus, the entire debuff is just a mob fizzle increase debuff but you'll never know if it will void out a spell of the mob unless SoE puts in the combat text like, "mob tries to cast X spell but fails due to not enough skill".</P>

[Goozman]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gabriellex wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><BR>Maddening Swarm M1 is 35 points of debuffing casting skills, which is 35 / 5 = 7 Levels (5 points per level), not 3-4 levels. The intention of this spell should work like it does in PvP where when you decrease your opponents casting skills it will void out all the spells thats between (opponent level - 7). This is how it works now in dualing where a 50 fury vs 50 wizard, the fury can prevent the wizard from ever casting ice comet and other spells thats between levels 43-50, assuming the wizard has no skill buffs (all casting skills at 250).</P> <P>The problem with heroic and epic mobs is that most are still casting low level spells, so cancelling out their spells might not be possible, even with multiple skill debuffs. In a way, along with the focus, the entire debuff is just a mob fizzle increase debuff but you'll never know if it will void out a spell of the mob unless SoE puts in the combat text like, "mob tries to cast X spell but fails due to not enough skill".</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It hasn't had that effect since before the 13th update. Spell skills have no effect on what spells you can use; only your character level does.</P> <P>Now they increase/reduce the chance of you being resisted using that spell type, and also increase/reduce your fizzle rate. But nobody has ever shown actual information that it has any effect whatsoever on mobs; and since I have never seen it help at all, I will continue to believe it is 110% worthless, and I only cast it when I have precise note on.<BR></P>

[Gabriell]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Goozman wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gabriellex wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><BR>Maddening Swarm M1 is 35 points of debuffing casting skills, which is 35 / 5 = 7 Levels (5 points per level), not 3-4 levels. The intention of this spell should work like it does in PvP where when you decrease your opponents casting skills it will void out all the spells thats between (opponent level - 7). This is how it works now in dualing where a 50 fury vs 50 wizard, the fury can prevent the wizard from ever casting ice comet and other spells thats between levels 43-50, assuming the wizard has no skill buffs (all casting skills at 250).</P> <P>The problem with heroic and epic mobs is that most are still casting low level spells, so cancelling out their spells might not be possible, even with multiple skill debuffs. In a way, along with the focus, the entire debuff is just a mob fizzle increase debuff but you'll never know if it will void out a spell of the mob unless SoE puts in the combat text like, "mob tries to cast X spell but fails due to not enough skill".</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It hasn't had that effect since before the 13th update. Spell skills have no effect on what spells you can use; only your character level does.</P> <P>Now they increase/reduce the chance of you being resisted using that spell type, and also increase/reduce your fizzle rate. But nobody has ever shown actual information that it has any effect whatsoever on mobs; and since I have never seen it help at all, I will continue to believe it is 110% worthless, and I only cast it when I have precise note on.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm talking about post-lu13. Spell casting skills always and still grow as you level and you cannot use higher level spells just because your spell casting skill might be high enough; therefore why would you be able to use a spell where you werent able to before based on a lower spell casting skill...and what proof do you have that spells are based off character level alone and not spell casting skill?</P> <P>Yes debuffing an opponents skills does give him a higher chance of fizzles and resistance to his opponent but that's not what I posted about. You really don't need actual information and I'm not here to look at equations all day trying to find the 100% perfect class / spells. What happens behind the scenes is something you cannot see so don't assume something is 110% worthless unless your a developer.<BR></P>

[Goozman]

<DIV>I reread your original post to see if I missed something... but I didn't... so I really have no idea what you are talking about in your reply. Swarm does no such thing when I am dueling someone, they don't lose the ability to cast spells of recent levels. Is there some special rule that only applies on pvp servers or something? 'Cause I've never heard of it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, it is easy to tell whether it is actually doing something using parsers; you don't need to be a developer. You can fight the same caster mob 100 times using the spell, 100 times without, and compare. I have done this with smaller sample sizes, and there is no effect... Not even a small one. When I duel with this spell, the only thing that really happens is that the enemy loses power over time. The focus debuff doesn't seem to help at all, and if the reduction in disruption is doing anything, it is incredibly minute.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also~ the proof I have that your castable spells are based off your character level is that it is not only blatantly obvious, but it has been stated a dozen times since lu13 by developers, trying to explain what casting skills mean post-lu13. They have, time and again, stated it has no effect on what spells you are able to cast... and it no longer was equivalent to casting a spell at x level. It is merely a factor in whether or not you will be resisted by an opponent and fizzles.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here is one, for example.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=71486&query.id=0#M71486" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=71486&query.id=0#M71486</A></DIV><p>Message Edited by Goozman on <span class=date_text>05-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:36 PM</span>

[Meattray]

<div></div><div></div>just want to touch on something relating to swarmI have alt tank and i found a T7 mob that uses swarm on me, i thouht no big deal till i saw what it was doing to me, not 63 decrease power but 600-700 decrease power !Give me that version of the spell <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Edit: but if i come across that mob again after changes and it debuffs my casting ability like proposed changes i will not notice a thing and the debuff will have no effect on me.The current and proposed changes will only have a effect on 5% of encounters and more than half of that 5% you will not know it did anything.<div></div><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Meattray on <span class=date_text>05-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:52 AM</span>

[Benaire]

I think that guy meant PreLU 13 or something if its post LU13 then well we are still post LU13