Coerce Master vs Adept 1 Beguile

[Swi]

<div></div>I bought the master book for Coercer and it made a HUGE difference in the effectivness of my pets, but I have had no luck in finding a master book for <font face="Courier New"><font size="2"><span><span>Beguile - the best I found was an adept 1 <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Am I better off using my lvl 20 Charm (Coerce) which is master, or should I use my new lvl 33 charm (</span></span></font></font><font face="Courier New"><font size="2"><span><span>Beguile) which is adept 1?  The only difference I see is that the duration is higher on the lvl 33 charm(</span></span></font></font><font face="Courier New"><font size="2"><span><span>Beguile), and I really dont care about the duration being higher.. because my mobs usually break erlier.Thanks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></span></font></font><font face="Courier New"><font size="2"><span><span></span></span></font></font><div></div><p>Message Edited by SwifT on <span class=date_text>12-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:11 AM</span>

[The Dark Savant]

Use the Coerce Master 1. The extra power of the master charm is more than worth it.

[RightInTwo]

Find the rare and get someone to craft you Beguile ADP III.

[Krackus2k]

<div></div>I am still new to the coercer but I was under the idea that the Master Coerce will still be better then the Adept3 Beguile.  I am actually in this very situation as I will be 33 VERY soon with no hope of finding a Master... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><p>Message Edited by Krackus2k on <span class=date_text>12-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:10 AM</span>

[Ibunubi]

<DIV>Use Coerce Master ... It does not matter which level charm you use because the only thing that matters is what rank you have your charm. The only upgrade you get from higher level charms is only longer duration.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I personally used Coerce master until I got Dominate master at 47, and I still use Dominate.</DIV>

[Swi]

<div></div>kick [Removed for Content]!! I'm glad to hear this <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Thanks for the info guys!<div></div><p>Message Edited by SwifT on <span class=date_text>12-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:00 AM</span>

[RightInTwo]

<DIV>I believe that the stats (IE: Regen for power and health on the mob) increase with every higher spell correct? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And not sure if the spell's resistability kicks in or not like it's supposed to.....Coerce's spell resist increases after lvl 40....while Beguile's kicks in at lvl 53.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've never had to wait that long to find out the answer....but just something to think about.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've never really wanted to keep using 'older' spells. I mean in certain cases I can see why (if you had a old Master vs new App II)....but we get new spells for a reason....and if I can find a new spell with ADP III, then I'll use that over the old Master anyday. Then again...I'm on a pvp server....so maybe that's why I think a little differently.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other than those, yea the extra 5 mins. would be nice.....if it actually lasted the whole duration. lol. Oh well....can't make it that easy on us. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Alaeth]

<blockquote><hr>RightInTwo wrote:<DIV>I believe that the stats (IE: Regen for power and health on the mob) increase with every higher spell correct? </DIV><DIV>And not sure if the spell's resistability kicks in or not like it's supposed to.....Coerce's spell resist increases after lvl 40....while Beguile's kicks in at lvl 53.</DIV><DIV>I've never had to wait that long to find out the answer....but just something to think about.</DIV><DIV>I've never really wanted to keep using 'older' spells. I mean in certain cases I can see why (if you had a old Master vs new App II)....but we get new spells for a reason....and if I can find a new spell with ADP III, then I'll use that over the old Master anyday. Then again...I'm on a pvp server....so maybe that's why I think a little differently.</DIV><DIV>Other than those, yea the extra 5 mins. would be nice.....if it actually lasted the whole duration. lol. Oh well....can't make it that easy on us. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><hr></blockquote>While it is correct that the health/power regen rate increases on higher levels of charm, the amounts (both the increases and the base amounts) are so minimal compared to the health/power pools of upper-level mobs that that factor is all but irrelevant--especially when charmed mobs regen 4% health/power in or out of combat, unlike players who only regen at that rate out of combat.As for the resistability, no. As has been said any number of times on various threads in this forum, the increased resistability applies <i>only</i> to the after-break stun, not to the actual charm itself. Even then, that stun has such a high base chance of landing that even if you're using a charm past the level it lists, you'll almost always have the stun land anyways. That increased resistance effect is unimportant when deciding which level of charm spell to use.

[Ibunubi]

<P>I'm on a PvP server, as well :smileyhappy: . Yeah the regen's increase with newer charms, but if your pet is low on hp/power, simply recharm it. However, pets will never run out of power unless they fight mobs with power drains.</P> <P>As for resistability, your first two charms -- Befriend and Charm -- are the only ones that actually state they are limited by the level of mobs. Level 20 Coerce and after, do not state any such thing.</P>

[Nitanyspirit]

<DIV>Actually, all spells of control have their resistability increased after 20 levels.  </DIV> <DIV><BR>But Charm's resistability only applies to the 2 second mesmerization effect when it terminates early.</DIV>

[da5idblacksun]

How about Master Coerce vs. AD3 Beguile? I got an AD3 Beguile.  Seems to work pretty good.<div></div>

[Signal9]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RightInTwo wrote:<BR> Find the rare and get someone to craft you Beguile ADP III.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>...And STILL use your Coerce Master.</P> <P> </P> <P>The key is the - Master.  It makes all the difference in the world.</P> <P> </P> <P>Edit:  What makes the difference in the spells is not the regan rate, or the resistability.  It's that the charmed mob attacks at the quality of the charm.  With Master level charm, every single attack, CA, and spell used by your charm-pet is at Master quality.</P> <P>Charm warlock - Master AoE's</P> <P>Charm Inquisitor - Master Heals</P> <P> </P> <P>The lower level charms functionally differ only in the total time of the charm.  They may not apply the stun at the end of the mez, but you can live through that.  It's the damage difference that makes the lvl 20 master better than a lvl 50 Ad3.</P><p>Message Edited by Signal9 on <span class=date_text>01-17-2007</span> <span class=time_text>08:01 AM</span>

[da5idblacksun]

Thanks for the detailed answer.<div></div>

[Cattastrophy]

I'ed jsut look at the pros and cons... If you can find a mob that nukes / CAs hard, use the master. If you can't and you only get healers and melee to pick from, the A3 of the level up will do, but remember, what ever your charm is labled as is what the monsters CAs and Spells are labled as. AKA Master 1 = Master spells and CAs, A3 = A3 spells and CAs.In later levels it's a no brainer, go with the master. At lower levels the A3 might help you out a bit if you plan on a long fight.<div></div>