EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

 

Go Back   EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire > EverQuest II > General EverQuest II Discussion > General Gameplay Discussion
Members List Search Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-09-2012, 10:57 PM   #1
Wizardlord
Server: Antonia Bayle
Guild: Acolytes of Valor
Rank: Knight

Loremaster
Wizardlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 139
Default

Hello, it would be very cool if you were able to let us set our own CPU affinity when running multiple EQ2's, it seems that when im running my normal ammount while boxing (4 Clients of eq2) it always seems to go core 24 (2 and 4), it would be nice it eq2 didnt reset my affinity options in tskmgr.exe every 30seconds or so. at the moment im having to use a program i wrote in c++ to lock the afinity down so it doesnt keep changing.

just some info:

1 EQ2 with my cpu locker off = 65fps (116 while in my house)*

1 EQ2 with my cpu locker on = 135fps (209 while in my house)*

4 EQ2's with cpu locker off = 42fps (68 while in my house)*

4 EQ2's with cpu locker on = 74fps (101 while in my house)*

* = these are just avarage numbers i got on a few tests

so is it possible for you to make EQ2 so it doesnt lock cpu affinity automatticly to the same 2 cores for every client running?

thanks

__________________

Wizardlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 11:55 PM   #2
Regolas

Loremaster
Regolas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 603
Default

Ponzo, What are your specs of your computer? I'm running a dated machine now (cpu e5700, gpu 4870, 4gb ram), that runs one client fine but struggles with 2 or more. I'm interested to see if I can get better fps on 2 clients. I'm not that computer savvy but I'm going to research what you've done to see if I can improve my boxing performance.
Regolas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 12:33 AM   #3
Avianna
Server: Butcherblock
Guild: Ronin
Rank: Officer

Loremaster
Avianna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Posts: 435
Default

[email protected] wrote:

Hello, it would be very cool if you were able to let us set our own CPU affinity when running multiple EQ2's, it seems that when im running my normal ammount while boxing (4 Clients of eq2) it always seems to go core 24 (2 and 4), it would be nice it eq2 didnt reset my affinity options in tskmgr.exe every 30seconds or so. at the moment im having to use a program i wrote in c++ to lock the afinity down so it doesnt keep changing.

just some info:

1 EQ2 with my cpu locker off = 65fps (116 while in my house)*

1 EQ2 with my cpu locker on = 135fps (209 while in my house)*

4 EQ2's with cpu locker off = 42fps (68 while in my house)*

4 EQ2's with cpu locker on = 74fps (101 while in my house)*

* = these are just avarage numbers i got on a few tests

so is it possible for you to make EQ2 so it doesnt lock cpu affinity automatticly to the same 2 cores for every client running?

thanks

Heck, I would love if you could share this cpu locker with the community, my frame rates are horrid on this old laptop usually around 20 or so... any boost to FPS would be greatly appreciated.

Please and thank you,

~Avianna

__________________
Avianna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 12:57 AM   #4
Deago

Loremaster
Deago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 625
Default

Remember eq2 was engineered for single-core.  At the OS level.....nevermind carry on I am just feeling lazy but in short its 'intended.'   Cache be the word.

What OS are you using?

Remember a project during grad school involving beowulf clusters and this topic reminded me of how nifty it would be to run something old like eq2 across a few old pentium 4's    Not exactly ideal..but funny.

__________________
Hello fellow EQ2 gamers!
Deago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 01:25 AM   #5
kdmorse

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 653
Default

Random note:

If you're running Vista or Windows 7, and *not* running the client as admin, it acts extra dumb in this regard.  You will get better behavior running as admin.

The client is only kinda dumb normally.  It actually notes whether it is the first, second, third instance, etc...  And tries to lock itself to different CPU's to prevent exactly this issue.  (Although it doesn't do a very good job).

But if the client is not running as admin, it cannot see those other instances.  So it thinks it's the first client, all four clients think they're the first client, and all lock themselves to the same CPU.

So in the simplest case where you're multi-clienting, and you start the executables manually, make sure you're starting them as admin and it might help.  (It also might not, as I said, it's not very good about getting out of it's own way, but it does try)

But, an external app to do CPU affinity locking to exactly the cores you want, and keep it there, is always better.

Also - if you only give the client 1 CPU, turn off multi-processor support in the game.  If MP support is turned on in the game, it tries to use two processors (one at 100%, one at 15-25%). If it thinks it can do that, but you pin both the main game thread, and it's auxiliary threads to just one CPU, it actually hurts itself - you get a better framerate with client MP support disabled in that situation.

kdmorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 01:48 AM   #6
Wizardlord
Server: Antonia Bayle
Guild: Acolytes of Valor
Rank: Knight

Loremaster
Wizardlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 139
Default

Currently im using Windows 7, Intel I3 Quad Core (3.70ghrtz), ATI Radeon 5650 (1gb, DDR3) and 528gb hard drive, I use duel moniter to (1920x1080). it was a univerisity supplied PC, but it does pretty good, and with a few tweaks im able to do quite alot. i also run a few other porgrams for clearing ram and stopping pretty much any process that isnt required to keep windows/pc running smoothly

PS: yes i could give the program i wrote to give you much better FPS, but it still needs a few fixes to make it run 100% hehe, at the moment, im changing the cpu affinity and a few other settings after eq2 reverts them back. i need to change that to intercept EQ2 trying to revert them which at the moment is creating a tiny bit of lag about every 2-3minutes (only about a drop of 10-12fps for 4 seconds - but i can fix that)

__________________

Wizardlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 02:08 AM   #7
Deago

Loremaster
Deago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 625
Default

[email protected] wrote:

Currently im using Windows 7, Intel I3 Quad Core (3.70ghrtz), ATI Radeon 5650 (1gb, DDR3) and 528gb hard drive, I use duel moniter to (1920x1080). it was a univerisity supplied PC, but it does pretty good, and with a few tweaks im able to do quite alot. i also run a few other porgrams for clearing ram and stopping pretty much any process that isnt required to keep windows/pc running smoothly

PS: yes i could give the program i wrote to give you much better FPS, but it still needs a few fixes to make it run 100% hehe, at the moment, im changing the cpu affinity and a few other settings after eq2 reverts them back. i need to change that to intercept EQ2 trying to revert them which at the moment is creating a tiny bit of lag about every 2-3minutes (only about a drop of 10-12fps for 4 seconds - but i can fix that)

i3 quad core?  ....maybe im just tired but I thought quad started with certain models in the i5 line?

anyway as stated by Ynn... its all about the OS 

__________________
Hello fellow EQ2 gamers!
Deago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 03:02 AM   #8
Wizardlord
Server: Antonia Bayle
Guild: Acolytes of Valor
Rank: Knight

Loremaster
Wizardlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 139
Default

Deago wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Currently im using Windows 7, Intel I3 Quad Core (3.70ghrtz), ATI Radeon 5650 (1gb, DDR3) and 528gb hard drive, I use duel moniter to (1920x1080). it was a univerisity supplied PC, but it does pretty good, and with a few tweaks im able to do quite alot. i also run a few other porgrams for clearing ram and stopping pretty much any process that isnt required to keep windows/pc running smoothly

PS: yes i could give the program i wrote to give you much better FPS, but it still needs a few fixes to make it run 100% hehe, at the moment, im changing the cpu affinity and a few other settings after eq2 reverts them back. i need to change that to intercept EQ2 trying to revert them which at the moment is creating a tiny bit of lag about every 2-3minutes (only about a drop of 10-12fps for 4 seconds - but i can fix that)

i3 quad core?  ....maybe im just tired but I thought quad started with certain models in the i5 line?

anyway as stated by Ynn... its all about the OS 

Yeah I3 does have quad core hehem but yeah i saw Ynn's post, il ahve a look into that later

__________________

Wizardlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 03:41 AM   #9
Deago

Loremaster
Deago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 625
Default

I see what you did there 

__________________
Hello fellow EQ2 gamers!
Deago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 04:19 AM   #10
Halo of G4

Loremaster
Halo of G4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 283
Default

One of my favorite past times in EQ2 global chat is to ruin someones parade by informing that their brag rights of duo 690 Nvidia is all for nothing because of how EQ2 was designed around single CPU. Oh how their cookies crumble.

__________________
LU2012: Valve has bought SoE. EQ2 has been renamed FortressQuest 2 with Freeport and Qeynos respectively becoming Blu and RED base.

Added Raid Zone:

The Goldrush: Dwell into the depths of RED base to defeat the Heavy, a powerful foe that even the Nameless fears.

Halo of G4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 08:21 AM   #11
Wingrider01

Loremaster
Wingrider01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,999
Default

Halo of G4 wrote:

One of my favorite past times in EQ2 global chat is to ruin someones parade by informing that their brag rights of duo 690 Nvidia is all for nothing because of how EQ2 was designed around single CPU. Oh how their cookies crumble.

run a Quad SLI of 690's in a ASUS P8Z77-V, Core I7 3770K 3.5GHZ process. Even in raid the game runs fine with everything on ultra and just shadows (I detest them) and flora (play short races and hate not being able to see over the flora) turned off, but then the multiple 690's where purchased for another reason, they just happen to be installed in the machine I use to multi-box eq2, the game is just oh by the way I play it on this machine also

__________________
Fixing computer issues, one SOC7 at a time.

Yes Jim, the user has experienced the dreaded PICNIC error

Wingrider01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 01:54 PM   #12
Gilasil

Loremaster
Gilasil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 907
Default

Every time I see threads like this I'd like to know how much performance boost EQ2 gets by setting the affinity at all.  I'd hope it was pretty significant or it makes no sense as threads like this attest.

I usually avoid setting CPU affinity on client side apps (yes, multithreaded apps) since you don't really know the environment your app will be running in and it's easy to really mess things up.  As this demonstrates.  There would have to be a VERY good reason to do so.  On server side it makes more sense since you typically have a lot more control over how it'll be run.

Gilasil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 02:53 PM   #13
Ulrichvon

Loremaster
Ulrichvon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 641
Default

Gilasil wrote:

Every time I see threads like this I'd like to know how much performance boost EQ2 gets by setting the affinity at all.  I'd hope it was pretty significant or it makes no sense as threads like this attest.

I usually avoid setting CPU affinity on client side apps (yes, multithreaded apps) since you don't really know the environment your app will be running in and it's easy to really mess things up.  As this demonstrates.  There would have to be a VERY good reason to do so.  On server side it makes more sense since you typically have a lot more control over how it'll be run.

Very significant.

Getting EQ2 to run on cores that will 'turbo' their clockrate is really important.  Unfortunately by default the client chooses cores that are almost certain to prevent the feature.

There have been other recent threads detailing this issue as well.

__________________
Hey, where's my random act of kindness?
Ulrichvon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 03:24 PM   #14
Wingrider01

Loremaster
Wingrider01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,999
Default

Ulrichvon wrote:

Gilasil wrote:

Every time I see threads like this I'd like to know how much performance boost EQ2 gets by setting the affinity at all.  I'd hope it was pretty significant or it makes no sense as threads like this attest.

I usually avoid setting CPU affinity on client side apps (yes, multithreaded apps) since you don't really know the environment your app will be running in and it's easy to really mess things up.  As this demonstrates.  There would have to be a VERY good reason to do so.  On server side it makes more sense since you typically have a lot more control over how it'll be run.

Very significant.

Getting EQ2 to run on cores that will 'turbo' their clockrate is really important.  Unfortunately by default the client chooses cores that are almost certain to prevent the feature.

There have been other recent threads detailing this issue as well.

Is Very significant backed by controlled testing or just by the TSMB method? Would love to see the comparision graphs and data points

__________________
Fixing computer issues, one SOC7 at a time.

Yes Jim, the user has experienced the dreaded PICNIC error

Wingrider01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 04:59 PM   #15
Ulrichvon

Loremaster
Ulrichvon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 641
Default

Wingrider01 wrote:

Is Very significant backed by controlled testing or just by the TSMB method? Would love to see the comparision graphs and data points

That would depend explicitly on your cpu and the turbocore settings associated with it.

For my machine, when forced to a 'sane' affinity setting, eq2 benefits from another 500mhz of processing power, which equates to about 13 extra FPS while raiding with my client settings.

The difference between 7-8 FPS when locked to core 6, and 19-23 FPS when locked to core 2, is huge IMO.

Now if the turbocore jump on your rig is less, the difference would be less.

All in all, SOE doesn't need to do anything with this change OTHER than remove their over-riding of OS and USER affinity settings.  Over-riding the system and the user is a bad idea to start with and should have never been done that way in the first place.

A few of us tried to get SoE to understand that back when this change was made, but they wouldn't listen then either.  Now with these newer 'turbo core' CPU's the issue is a larger concern and affects people other than just multi-boxers.

__________________
Hey, where's my random act of kindness?
Ulrichvon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 06:14 PM   #16
Wingrider01

Loremaster
Wingrider01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,999
Default

Ulrichvon wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

Is Very significant backed by controlled testing or just by the TSMB method? Would love to see the comparision graphs and data points

That would depend explicitly on your cpu and the turbocore settings associated with it.

For my machine, when forced to a 'sane' affinity setting, eq2 benefits from another 500mhz of processing power, which equates to about 13 extra FPS while raiding with my client settings.

The difference between 7-8 FPS when locked to core 6, and 19-23 FPS when locked to core 2, is huge IMO.

Now if the turbocore jump on your rig is less, the difference would be less.

All in all, SOE doesn't need to do anything with this change OTHER than remove their over-riding of OS and USER affinity settings.  Over-riding the system and the user is a bad idea to start with and should have never been done that way in the first place.

A few of us tried to get SoE to understand that back when this change was made, but they wouldn't listen then either.  Now with these newer 'turbo core' CPU's the issue is a larger concern and affects people other than just multi-boxers.

running a Core I7 3770K 3.5GHZ

still want to see the data points that you was using to justify the statement, will take them from you configuration. No offense but I take no performence comment at face value unless it is proven - my programmers know this already and will not make statements they do not have the data points to back it up withh

__________________
Fixing computer issues, one SOC7 at a time.

Yes Jim, the user has experienced the dreaded PICNIC error

Wingrider01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 05:57 PM   #17
Deago

Loremaster
Deago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 625
Default

Wingrider01 wrote:

Ulrichvon wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

Is Very significant backed by controlled testing or just by the TSMB method? Would love to see the comparision graphs and data points

That would depend explicitly on your cpu and the turbocore settings associated with it.

For my machine, when forced to a 'sane' affinity setting, eq2 benefits from another 500mhz of processing power, which equates to about 13 extra FPS while raiding with my client settings.

The difference between 7-8 FPS when locked to core 6, and 19-23 FPS when locked to core 2, is huge IMO.

Now if the turbocore jump on your rig is less, the difference would be less.

All in all, SOE doesn't need to do anything with this change OTHER than remove their over-riding of OS and USER affinity settings.  Over-riding the system and the user is a bad idea to start with and should have never been done that way in the first place.

A few of us tried to get SoE to understand that back when this change was made, but they wouldn't listen then either.  Now with these newer 'turbo core' CPU's the issue is a larger concern and affects people other than just multi-boxers.

running a Core I7 3770K 3.5GHZ

still want to see the data points that you was using to justify the statement, will take them from you configuration. No offense but I take no performence comment at face value unless it is proven - my programmers know this already and will not make statements they do not have the data points to back it up withh

As a software engineer Wing made me lol because I can relate to his feelings on the matter.

I will say that 90% of the time the OS is smarter with affinity.  So I agree with wing that data would need to be summoned for it to be taken seriously. 

__________________
Hello fellow EQ2 gamers!
Deago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 06:51 PM   #18
Ulrichvon

Loremaster
Ulrichvon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 641
Default

Deago wrote:

I will say that 90% of the time the OS is smarter with affinity.  So I agree with wing that data would need to be summoned for it to be taken seriously. 

YES!  It is!

Do you realize the EQ2 client overrides the OS affinity and sets its own, and thats why the thread is here?

__________________
Hey, where's my random act of kindness?
Ulrichvon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 06:57 PM   #19
Deago

Loremaster
Deago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 625
Default

Indeed.  I do ask ....why?  Perhaps a red name might answer because until then I will assume it is known and intended by the developers. 

__________________
Hello fellow EQ2 gamers!
Deago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 08:09 PM   #20
Wingrider01

Loremaster
Wingrider01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,999
Default

Ulrichvon wrote:

Deago wrote:

I will say that 90% of the time the OS is smarter with affinity.  So I agree with wing that data would need to be summoned for it to be taken seriously. 

YES!  It is!

Do you realize the EQ2 client overrides the OS affinity and sets its own, and thats why the thread is here?

really? got the documentation to back up your statement? Sorry, need concrete proof on a statement before I will accept it. This is the point I am making - it is just a statement unless there is documentation and data points to validate the statement.

Unlike deago I require my people to prove a statement before I agree with what they say and allow it to be worked on

__________________
Fixing computer issues, one SOC7 at a time.

Yes Jim, the user has experienced the dreaded PICNIC error

Wingrider01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 08:57 PM   #21
Deago

Loremaster
Deago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 625
Default

This is entertaining SMILEY

__________________
Hello fellow EQ2 gamers!
Deago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 09:48 PM   #22
kdmorse

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 653
Default

Wingrider01 wrote:

Ulrichvon wrote:

Do you realize the EQ2 client overrides the OS affinity and sets its own, and thats why the thread is here?

really? got the documentation to back up your statement? Sorry, need concrete proof on a statement before I will accept it. This is the point I am making - it is just a statement unless there is documentation and data points to validate the statement.

Unlike deago I require my people to prove a statement before I agree with what they say and allow it to be worked on

Err, exactly what point are you disbelieving?  If it's the relative performance of various affinity configurations, fair enough.

But you seem to be disputing the fact that EQ2 hardcodes it's own affinity settings, and that's not even in question here.  It does it.  We can see it do it - we wish it would stop.  It's why this thread exists.  We can watch it override our settings as 'it knows best'.  Devs have confirmed repeatedly that it does it intentionally, and explained the intent. We can trace the api calls to SetProcessAffinityMask and SetThreadAffinityMask coming from the client.  And the end result is unmistakable, it picks a core, and locks the main thread itself there. 

And when we fire four clients up, and they all lock their main thread to the same core, cutting each clients framerate to 1/4th of normal....   We want to slap someone with a fish...

kdmorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 09:55 PM   #23
Deago

Loremaster
Deago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 625
Default

What did the dev's say was the main reasoning for dynamic affinity?  (sounds like a romance novel )

I just confirmed what was said with the api calls on my laptop here so it is true in that regard.  

__________________
Hello fellow EQ2 gamers!
Deago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 10:15 PM   #24
Ulrichvon

Loremaster
Ulrichvon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 641
Default

Deago wrote:

What did the dev's say was the main reasoning for dynamic affinity?  (sounds like a romance novel )

I just confirmed what was said with the api calls on my laptop here so it is true in that regard.  

The intent, was to prevent multiple instances of the client from picking the same core, which is funny, cause as the previous poster pointed out they still are sometimes.  In nearly all cases, allowing the OS to control affinity is the best answer, unfortunately some guy at SoE didn't agree.

I have a PM from that guy on my banned forum account, I can see if I can locate it.

__________________
Hey, where's my random act of kindness?
Ulrichvon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 11:21 PM   #25
kdmorse

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 653
Default

Deago wrote:

What did the dev's say was the main reasoning for dynamic affinity?  (sounds like a romance novel )

I cannot find the thread I'm remembering, where a dev detailed *how* it worked.  How the clients sniffed each other out.  How they counted down from the largest number core.  And that yes, it didn't always work right.  However I don't think that thread ever mentioned *why* they decided to manhandle it.

I did find 5 other threads over the years, some hilights: (dev name was (Autenil))

The EQ2 client already assigns affinity for the main thread in an attempt to load balance for multiple clients running. If you have 4 cores and 4 clients running, each client's main thread should get its own core. Affinity is set on a thread level, so you won't see it in the "set affinity..." dialog in the process manager.

----

EverQuest II does set affinity for its main thread however, to try and maintain cache coherency and avoid timing problems that can result from reading timing values from different CPUs.

----

The game already has code to load-balance multiple clients between the cores (i.e. running four clients on a quad-core machine, each client will get their own core). If you have multicore support enabled, it means that each running client is going to try to use greater than one core. If you have a quad core machine and run two clients, you'd be fine using multicore support. If you have two cores and run two clients with multicore support, it means that the clients are going to both be trying to use greater than one core each and therein lies the issue.The note in the release notes that you're referring to merely means that multicore mode off is the best environment to run when you can only dedicate one core to a game client.

-----

kdmorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 12:08 AM   #26
kdmorse

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 653
Default

That reminds me, another workaround I used to use....

IF your client is allocating processors sequentially per client launched (as it should be, starting with the highest number, working it's way down), and you want a client on a specific logical processor, you can start dummy clients to fill up the cores you don't want, and then kill them when you have a client on the core you do want.

Assume a quad core ht system, 8 logical processors, numbered 0 -> 7.  You really want a client on #4.

Start a client, it locks onto #7Start a client, it locks onto #6Start a client, it locks onto #5Start a client, it locks onto #4

Keep the last one, kill the first three.  The main thread will stay on logical processor #4.

I used to use that to pin clients where I wanted them.  For about a week.  It got too annoying to do daily....

kdmorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 12:41 AM   #27
Deago

Loremaster
Deago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 625
Default

Scraped project perhaps that was never cleaned up?

__________________
Hello fellow EQ2 gamers!
Deago is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:33 PM.

vBulletin skin by: CompleteGFX.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All threads and posts originally from the EQ2 and Station forums operated by Sony Online Entertainment. Their use is by express written permission.