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Old 07-02-2010, 06:13 PM   #1
Vymm

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Olihin stopped by today for a nice chat and there were some really nice ideas tossed around that hopefully we can see some improvements to promote some more open pvp soon.. As we all know open pvp has been dying lately and in my opinion it's likely because people are nearly all geared out now so there is no need for tokens so nobody comes out anymore.. However in my opinion there is a solution that would promote more open pvp because lets face it people are greedy and just want more gear. As long as there is something to spend tokens on whether it's a tiny upgrade to your current gear or something completely new that will always bring more people out for pvp. 
Basically we would be able to upgrade our current pvp/bg gear into OPEN PVP GEAR ONLY through multiple tiers that would have certain requirements to upgrade them etc.. The reason it would have to be OPEN PVP ONLY once it's upgraded to T2 and beyond is that the [Removed for Content] bluebie servers would complain if we were to use them in BGs.. The easy part is that you would not have to make new gear but could just have further upgraded versions of the current gear that is already mostly balanced. Just as you now have T1-T3 PVE gear you could also have T1-T5 pvp gear.. The more time you put in the better gear you would have instead of everyone having the exact same gear whether they spent 50 hours pvping or 5000 hours. These upgrade requirements are all completely random numbers I made up and can be anything you want as long as it's balanced yet exponentially harder to upgrade tiers.. For instance lets say our current gear is T1 gear.. 
T1 gear + 1000 tokens = T2 gear       (Requires 2000 total pvp kills to upgrade)
T2 gear + 2500 tokens = T3 gear (Requires 5000 total pvp kills and 500 city pvp kills to upgrade)
T3 gear + 5000 tokens = T4 gear (Requires 10000 total pvp kills and 1000 city pvp kills to upgrade)
T4 gear + 10000 tokens = T5 gear (Requires 20000 total pvp kills and 2000 city pvp kills to upgrade)
You would just have a vendor that you trade your current gear + tokens for the next tier gear as long as you passed the kill requirement.. For instance T1 to T2 could upgrade stats slightly or add more HP or make a damage proc hit twice as hard.. Then when you get up to the higher tiers T3+ you could also add unique class specific procs or even stuff like mutilate or something to upgraded gear as you get further up.. Then of course T5 would have to have something really super sick that would make people WANT to spend months of pvping to get.
PLEASE don't criticize this without offering helpful suggestions or modifications to the idea that might be usable because we all want the same thing. MORE OPEN PVP.
- Vymm
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Old 07-02-2010, 07:43 PM   #2
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It would also be good if the T3+ upgrades required non-heirloom tokens that you would have to EARN YOURSELF.

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Old 07-02-2010, 11:03 PM   #3
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Im not sure how adding even more item upgrades using the exact same writ system is going to help anything tbh.

People lose interest in regularly pvping because there is nothing left of it except a boring repetitive grind of pressing blue aoe's in the middle of a huge mass of people.

That isnt pvp, its just consensual token farming.  And its all we're ever going to get out of pvp until they give us a reward system that actually gives incentives for not always having 10-30 people beside you.

You can boost the numbers of writs needed for the best gear to make it look like more people are pvping, but that doesnt mean they are enjoying themselves at all.  All we have left is the grind.  There is no incentive left anywhere in the game for any player to do anything other than all cluster into one area and grind tokens.  Which is frankly just getting depressing.

Also...how exactly would you design 4 tiers of upgrades when fully geared characters in the current gear already can barely damage each other at all?  Most people are already capped on most of their offensive stats and I dont really think more damage procs are the answer to balance...

Gear inflation is already a massive problem both in pvp and just in the game in general, I already cant even imagine what bs they are gonna have to come up with for next xpac to actually get people to upgrade and we're only like half way through this xpacs life cycle?

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Old 07-03-2010, 06:12 PM   #4
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Whatever anything is better then NO pvp which is basically what it is now.. I hate the zerg too more then you know but it's better then finding 5 or 6 people a day out in open world.. I'd be down for something like scheduled duels or specific pvp times in a bunch of other zones for group action at least people would KNOW there will be pvp and the leechers can come and get picked off too. I know that sounds kinda lame since what makes REAL pvp so fun is the unpredictable random encounters but someone could make up a schedule or something where people would know the pvp is going to be and when. We could also start a thread telling people where we are waiting for pvp and basically taunting people to come out. 

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Old 07-03-2010, 07:05 PM   #5
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sure sounds fine by me

with old fame system and possibly removing immunity please ? 30 sec timer should suffice for the wild

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Old 07-04-2010, 12:53 AM   #6
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Vymm wrote:

Olihin stopped by today for a nice chat and there were some really nice ideas tossed around that hopefully we can see some improvements to promote some more open pvp soon.. As we all know open pvp has been dying lately and in my opinion it's likely because people are nearly all geared out now so there is no need for tokens so nobody comes out anymore.. However in my opinion there is a solution that would promote more open pvp because lets face it people are greedy and just want more gear. As long as there is something to spend tokens on whether it's a tiny upgrade to your current gear or something completely new that will always bring more people out for pvp. 
Basically we would be able to upgrade our current pvp/bg gear into OPEN PVP GEAR ONLY through multiple tiers that would have certain requirements to upgrade them etc.. The reason it would have to be OPEN PVP ONLY once it's upgraded to T2 and beyond is that the [Removed for Content] bluebie servers would complain if we were to use them in BGs.. The easy part is that you would not have to make new gear but could just have further upgraded versions of the current gear that is already mostly balanced. Just as you now have T1-T3 PVE gear you could also have T1-T5 pvp gear.. The more time you put in the better gear you would have instead of everyone having the exact same gear whether they spent 50 hours pvping or 5000 hours. These upgrade requirements are all completely random numbers I made up and can be anything you want as long as it's balanced yet exponentially harder to upgrade tiers.. For instance lets say our current gear is T1 gear.. 
T1 gear + 1000 tokens = T2 gear       (Requires 2000 total pvp kills to upgrade)
T2 gear + 2500 tokens = T3 gear (Requires 5000 total pvp kills and 500 city pvp kills to upgrade)
T3 gear + 5000 tokens = T4 gear (Requires 10000 total pvp kills and 1000 city pvp kills to upgrade)
T4 gear + 10000 tokens = T5 gear (Requires 20000 total pvp kills and 2000 city pvp kills to upgrade)
You would just have a vendor that you trade your current gear + tokens for the next tier gear as long as you passed the kill requirement.. For instance T1 to T2 could upgrade stats slightly or add more HP or make a damage proc hit twice as hard.. Then when you get up to the higher tiers T3+ you could also add unique class specific procs or even stuff like mutilate or something to upgraded gear as you get further up.. Then of course T5 would have to have something really super sick that would make people WANT to spend months of pvping to get.
PLEASE don't criticize this without offering helpful suggestions or modifications to the idea that might be usable because we all want the same thing. MORE OPEN PVP.
- Vymm

I like what Vymm is suggesting, I just dont trust SOE because I know they will drop the cost of that gear to only 200 tokens after I spent 10000 is all. That ticks me off.

They had the super gear idea for more tokens (higher prices) back in November of 09'. I remember spending 1000 tokens on an item for my Templar then 3 months later they nerf the item and drop the price to 125 tokens. Honestly, I dont think this is a good idea as it sets us up for disappointment. Just like the mount for 700 tokens that had in-combat run speed and then drop the price to 300 and finally nerf it a few weeks after the price drop to no in-combat run speed. They really need to think about the ramifications of thier decisions on gear before they implement change. It upsets me to spend all that time getting tokens just to have it dropped in price or nerfed.

They need to get rid of fame loss on turning off your PC. That was the bigest mistake they ever made. Bring back old system. I dont know why but a lot of people like it. Some say it doesnt mean anything but hey a lot of people like it just the same.

As far as the mass pvp, people are going to go where the action is at. They are not going to go to the Jungle to find one person  in an hour of searching. That is boring. They are going to go where people are finding PVP and that will never change.

They need to make it so Greys cant attack above a certain level amount or rez a 90 (since we cant keep them from rezzing), say 10 or 15 levels.  This needs to happen more than ever since they (both sides) leach tokens like mad, the same tokens you can use for your 90!!  Its no risk rewards 10 times worse. Gear up your 90 without even getting a death.

PS put some more weapons on the PVP merchants next for 90's (say one with 6 second delay) for instance.  No good weapons or shields makes em go to instances and raids instead of pvp'n.

You dont need more armor upgrades just change jewlery/charms around and weapons/shields and such.  Make minor changes to keep us interested and willing to get the upgrade. You can always offer raid jewlery like you did in Nov 09' and make the potency work only in PVP to keep blues happy. Make upgrades when they come out more exspensive to keep it interesting say 250 to 300 tokens but not crazy like 2000 tokens then 3 months later its 125.

Also no immunity sounds good to me as well. Why not we're at war, right?

My 2 cents

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Old 07-04-2010, 01:02 AM   #7
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Vymm wrote:

Whatever anything is better then NO pvp which is basically what it is now.. I hate the zerg too more then you know but it's better then finding 5 or 6 people a day out in open world.. I'd be down for something like scheduled duels or specific pvp times in a bunch of other zones for group action at least people would KNOW there will be pvp and the leechers can come and get picked off too. I know that sounds kinda lame since what makes REAL pvp so fun is the unpredictable random encounters but someone could make up a schedule or something where people would know the pvp is going to be and when. We could also start a thread telling people where we are waiting for pvp and basically taunting people to come out. 

"this will suck slightly less" isnt exactly a great motive for change.

How about we ask for reward systems that dont reward lag-zerg-orgy-token-farming instead of suggesting the devs just give us more of the same bs.

If you kill someone or something with 20 other people all 20 people shouldnt get rewarded exactly the same way as they would if they killed it by themselves....ever.

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Old 07-04-2010, 01:19 AM   #8
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[email protected] wrote:

Vymm wrote:

Whatever anything is better then NO pvp which is basically what it is now.. I hate the zerg too more then you know but it's better then finding 5 or 6 people a day out in open world.. I'd be down for something like scheduled duels or specific pvp times in a bunch of other zones for group action at least people would KNOW there will be pvp and the leechers can come and get picked off too. I know that sounds kinda lame since what makes REAL pvp so fun is the unpredictable random encounters but someone could make up a schedule or something where people would know the pvp is going to be and when. We could also start a thread telling people where we are waiting for pvp and basically taunting people to come out. 

"this will suck slightly less" isnt exactly a great motive for change.

How about we ask for reward systems that dont reward lag-zerg-orgy-token-farming instead of suggesting the devs just give us more of the same bs.

If you kill someone or something with 20 other people all 20 people shouldnt get rewarded exactly the same way as they would if they killed it by themselves....ever.

maybe they can add something into achievements for the player/you being solo/non heroic and killing others solo and give a nice reward for it. Tier it like they do PVP writs. This might make for some nice things to strive for. Perhaps a title or something useful like a buff item you can keep in your house.  It also gives us something new to shoot for.

The lag-zerg-orgy-token-farming will never change man. People are going to go where everybody is, period. The server is too populated to be anything less. Body drops wont change this, that will kill pvp because people wont be out to fight if they can't get a reward.

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Old 07-04-2010, 01:33 AM   #9
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Vymm wrote:

Whatever anything is better then NO pvp which is basically what it is now.. I hate the zerg too more then you know but it's better then finding 5 or 6 people a day out in open world.. I'd be down for something like scheduled duels or specific pvp times in a bunch of other zones for group action at least people would KNOW there will be pvp and the leechers can come and get picked off too. I know that sounds kinda lame since what makes REAL pvp so fun is the unpredictable random encounters but someone could make up a schedule or something where people would know the pvp is going to be and when. We could also start a thread telling people where we are waiting for pvp and basically taunting people to come out. 

"this will suck slightly less" isnt exactly a great motive for change.

How about we ask for reward systems that dont reward lag-zerg-orgy-token-farming instead of suggesting the devs just give us more of the same bs.

If you kill someone or something with 20 other people all 20 people shouldnt get rewarded exactly the same way as they would if they killed it by themselves....ever.

maybe they can add something into achievements for the player/you being solo/non heroic and killing others solo and give a nice reward for it. Tier it like they do PVP writs. This might make for some nice things to strive for. Perhaps a title or something useful like a buff item you can keep in your house.  It also gives us something new to shoot for.

The lag-zerg-orgy-token-farming will never change man. People are going to go where everybody is, period. The server is too populated to be anything less. Body drops wont change this, that will kill pvp because people wont be out to fight if they can't get a reward.

Anyone who cant pvp without a massive swarm behind them isnt pvping in the first place.

/autofollow is not a leet pvp tactic.

The massive zerg token farming wasnt always around which means theres no reason that it always has to be.  People do it because they get rewarded for doing nothing.  Everyone likes being rewarded for doing nothing.  That doesnt mean it is a good reward system.

We need some system, I dont care what it is, that doesnt dupe rewards out of mid air for everyone who happens to be nearby when someone dies.

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Old 07-04-2010, 10:34 AM   #10
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I'm kinda against releasing a progressive development system for gear, as it would only increase the disparity between newbies and veterans.

If there were some form of extreme gear progression like this, then you'd have players that might become as though walking GMs, and that would be very prohibitive for the possibility of enjoying success, given those who are unable to put forth a similarly substantial timesink.

If you review my post at Fundamental Reformation in Stagnation? Warfields/Faction Balance/PvP Ranks/Immunity/Items, you can get a sample of reformations that would stimulate on a cyclical basis with near infinite longevity.

Further down in that thread, I note options such as making contested versions of each dungeon (scale for the tiers possible), on top of the instances, albeit, with reduced drop rates.

I think, if a system like this was ever introduced, you'd want a flag, maybe call it "Valiant" for Qeynos and "Vindictive" for Freeport (or "Brutal" for Exiles).

Such a flag toggled ON would allow your gear to begin development under higher tier standards, but, you could only attack other players similarly flagged.

The stipulation would be that enabling or disabling this flag would have a 30 second cast time and a 1 week reuse (to avoid abusing toggling the flag to avoid troublesome foes).

Toggling the flag OFF would render unusable gear upgraded/gained through this system, and then you'd only be able to attack other players NOT in the proverbial "hardcore" mode, in the regular types of gear.

 - This gear would have tags like VALIANT VINDICTIVE BRUTAL to represent the state your character would need for usage.

If there are hardcore faction fighters, let them truly define themselves as such, and know that their competition will likewise be seriously, competitively minded.

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Also, Vymm or any other Freeportians present during the conversation with Olihin, could you please paste the log lines of the discussion and commentary held with him so that we can get a more accurate representation of sentiments on this approach?

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Old 07-05-2010, 05:25 AM   #11
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Pinino-Lfg wrote:

sure sounds fine by me

with old fame system and possibly removing immunity please ? 30 sec timer should suffice for the wild

i highlighted the important parts

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Old 07-05-2010, 05:29 AM   #12
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Vymm wrote:

Whatever anything is better then NO pvp which is basically what it is now.. I hate the zerg too more then you know but it's better then finding 5 or 6 people a day out in open world.. I'd be down for something like scheduled duels or specific pvp times in a bunch of other zones for group action at least people would KNOW there will be pvp and the leechers can come and get picked off too. I know that sounds kinda lame since what makes REAL pvp so fun is the unpredictable random encounters but someone could make up a schedule or something where people would know the pvp is going to be and when. We could also start a thread telling people where we are waiting for pvp and basically taunting people to come out. 

"this will suck slightly less" isnt exactly a great motive for change.

How about we ask for reward systems that dont reward lag-zerg-orgy-token-farming instead of suggesting the devs just give us more of the same bs.

If you kill someone or something with 20 other people all 20 people shouldnt get rewarded exactly the same way as they would if they killed it by themselves....ever.

maybe they can add something into achievements for the player/you being solo/non heroic and killing others solo and give a nice reward for it. Tier it like they do PVP writs. This might make for some nice things to strive for. Perhaps a title or something useful like a buff item you can keep in your house.  It also gives us something new to shoot for.

The lag-zerg-orgy-token-farming will never change man. People are going to go where everybody is, period. The server is too populated to be anything less. Body drops wont change this, that will kill pvp because people wont be out to fight if they can't get a reward.

Anyone who cant pvp without a massive swarm behind them isnt pvping in the first place.

/autofollow is not a leet pvp tactic.

The massive zerg token farming wasnt always around which means theres no reason that it always has to be.  People do it because they get rewarded for doing nothing.  Everyone likes being rewarded for doing nothing.  That doesnt mean it is a good reward system.

We need some system, I dont care what it is, that doesnt dupe rewards out of mid air for everyone who happens to be nearby when someone dies.

this too

early rok and kos/eof had actualy pvp-- then something happened-- famechange / number of tokens needed for pvpgear

suddenly everyone and their dog would get a full set in a week, when it used to take 3months for a single piece, guess what happened

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Old 07-05-2010, 05:46 PM   #13
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I never said tier gear was the ULTIMATE SOLUTION but it's a step in the right direction at least it would get more people to pvp

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Old 07-05-2010, 06:21 PM   #14
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Vymm wrote:

I never said tier gear was the ULTIMATE SOLUTION but it's a step in the right direction at least it would get more people to pvp

I have to disagree.  It just promotes the same type of zerg atmosphere.  Without repercussions for a pvp death, none of the ideas are healthy.

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Old 07-05-2010, 06:53 PM   #15
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The entire writ/token system is what is broken.  You cannot try to build off of this base and expect everything to be alright.  There needs to be a new system put in place that does not involve writs or tokens. 

Multiple groups should not get the same credit as a solo player for the same kill.  Death needs to be discouraged.  Rewards should be harder to achieve.

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Old 07-05-2010, 08:10 PM   #16
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One of the current biggest problem as i see for open pvp is faction ballance at least in t9 and 10.I dont mind big battles but when your out numbered 10 to 1 no point in participating but only to get flaged and sit in inmuity for pity tokens.Honestly dont know what to do about that being thats a players choice but you would think that with the ballace being so awkward that the qs arnt filling as many writs as they used to before the big swing in pop ballance.Like i said its player chioce but if the freeps that exiled for the wf 15 tokens would come back it would be more ballanced imo.

Bring back body drop tokens you can leave the writs in place but make these new tokens not drop all the time make them like fabled loot drops one drop per person a group would have to roll to get it.These tokens could be used for the tiered gear or something.

If your dead you dont got writ up date if you die and revive (not rezed by player) it should clear the memory of hits.IE you fight solo die revive come back to fight you get updates with out doing anything.you should have to reengauge the fight as if it was the first time.

Im on the fence about the old fame system in solo pvp i have enough people run with nothing to lose now how it is  and most of the time they attack me first.So ill let that play out I personaly dont care about titels so what ever on that one.

Its not liked by all but im in favor of exiles being a seperate faction eq1 has three factions good evlie neutral so i think good evile and exile(just dont call them neutral that sounds lame) would work.It might bring in some ballace to the pop as well.

its easy to work in the story line make them alliance with a leader to the void that way the void would always have a pressent in norrath so they can contiue to try to keep taking it over or something like that.

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Old 07-07-2010, 03:53 PM   #17
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Remove tokens, and remove writs as a manner of getting gear.  If the gear were available for everybody, all classes, on an even playing field, then the determining factors would be skill and class knowledge, rather than who is better at farming/AOEing.  Offer writs for status & coin; could be used to offset the cost of gear.  If an incentive is needed beyond that, bring titles and and fame back with a few changes, like make them toggleable (with that only available in town, like the AA mirror), and remove the offline decay.  Also set fame gain/loss as a level-range only thing, to keep greys from leeching. 

Just a thought or two.

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Old 07-07-2010, 04:31 PM   #18
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 It's the zerg mentality that needs to be broken and any race for PVP gear where you need tokens to buy them is only going to perpetuate the problem.  I'm advocating the removal of all PVP gear from the game entirely and the return of massive open dungeons -- with only a very few instances - in the next expansion, where the gear is the crucial thing you need from drops in order to be successful in PVE and PVP at the same time.

Imagine if they created several zones on the size of Veeshan's Peak, with wing after wing of respawning mobs ala Sanctum or Permafrost, that were open dungeons with dozens of nameds and those were the places you had to go in order to get that special class specific breastplate. 

Can you imagine the amazing PVP that we would find in there as we all fought to make it to contested mobs?  If the old fame system were brought back this would be done for gear to fight in PVP and PVE and for fame -- but not tokens.

And it would make Blue Servers enjoy the game more because they wouldn't just be stuck in instancecs that were just about following a script.

I have another post on this forum about what kinds of PVE suggestions we could make that Sony could do that would enable them to change PVE to the enjoyment of Blue and Red servers.

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Old 07-07-2010, 05:57 PM   #19
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Doesnt matter what you do, most people will always take the easier route to get the most and easiest gear.

If you add all that work and restrictions to open pvp gear most people wont even bother, because you can get some of the best pvp/bg gear simply from grinding BG's and it works in both pvp and bg combat and its all heirloom.

 We are screwed, the second they added BG's and added a SAFE, CONSTANT, ALWAYS WIN A TOKEN, way to get BG gear open pvp was doomed.

Adding fame could just make it worse. Some people will not open pvp one bit, without full sets of BG gear ready, because of the chance to lose fame.

Yea good luck with that. Id like to have fame back too, but I also have a full PVP/BG set.

There just isnt alot of hope, our servers open pvp has been damaged beyond repair.

 New Bg/pvp gear just blew the gap between gear'd players and ungeared players so far apart if you dont have alot already not only do you have no chance in hell at winning, but what motivation do you have to work at it?

Its the same flaw thats pushing newer people away from BG's, toughness and pvp crit mit is so way freakn OP if you simply dont have it, you get slaughtered. Now the popularity is dien so fast for both BG's and open pvp there isnt enough dev money coming in from it to justify fixn it.

Looking back toughness and pvp crit mit for everyone across the board was such a bad idea, because it turns some classes into unkillable gods that makes fights last so long the only way to win is to call in a zerg of help. Thats not pvp.

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Old 07-07-2010, 06:42 PM   #20
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[email protected] wrote:

Doesnt matter what you do, most people will always take the easier route to get the most and easiest gear.

If you add all that work and restrictions to open pvp gear most people wont even bother, because you can get some of the best pvp/bg gear simply from grinding BG's and it works in both pvp and bg combat and its all heirloom.

 We are screwed, the second they added BG's and added a SAFE, CONSTANT, ALWAYS WIN A TOKEN, way to get BG gear open pvp was doomed.

Adding fame could just make it worse. Some people will not open pvp one bit, without full sets of BG gear ready, because of the chance to lose fame.

Yea good luck with that. Id like to have fame back too, but I also have a full PVP/BG set.

There just isnt alot of hope, our servers open pvp has been damaged beyond repair.

 New Bg/pvp gear just blew the gap between gear'd players and ungeared players so far apart if you dont have alot already not only do you have no chance in hell at winning, but what motivation do you have to work at it?

Its the same flaw thats pushing newer people away from BG's, toughness and pvp crit mit is so way freakn OP if you simply dont have it, you get slaughtered. Now the popularity is dien so fast for both BG's and open pvp there isnt enough dev money coming in from it to justify fixn it.

Looking back toughness and pvp crit mit for everyone across the board was such a bad idea, because it turns some classes into unkillable gods that makes fights last so long the only way to win is to call in a zerg of help. Thats not pvp.

Get rid of PVP gear in the expansion entirely and make Battleground gear only able to work in Battlegrounds.  Make all PVE gear usable in PVP.   The people who only want to pvp aren't playing the game anyway so let them get on Xbox live and play Call of Duty.

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Old 07-08-2010, 04:42 PM   #21
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yea promoting solo pvp is the goal  tbh to bring back small half groups and solo pvp ...  in the wild

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Old 07-23-2010, 02:24 PM   #22
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Simple just make each upgrade require a certain number of a special "solo" tokens that you can only get by doing writs solo.

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Old 07-23-2010, 02:52 PM   #23
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New Bg/pvp gear just blew the gap between gear'd players and ungeared players so far apart if you dont have alot already not only do you have no chance in hell at winning, but what motivation do you have to work at it?

Its the same flaw thats pushing newer people away from BG's, toughness and pvp crit mit is so way freakn OP if you simply dont have it, you get slaughtered.

My baby Inq alt was 80 and trying to quest AAs to eventually become a viable competitor - gotta admit that it sucks getting steamrolled by a 90 in full Fabled pvp gear, as there is zero chance of success for undergeared lowbie vs geared.  What's the point to the level ranges that allow ridiculously OP characters to farm uncontested Tokens from lowbies?  Why reward such OP classes for no effort?

What possible "quality pvp" can be found in MC-pvp-geared 80s being one-shot by OP Fabled-pvp 90s?

No hope of competition = no further interest in open-pvp... pve is fun simply because there is valid progression and a chance to compete.

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Old 07-23-2010, 03:13 PM   #24
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Vymm wrote:

Simple just make each upgrade require a certain number of a special "solo" tokens that you can only get by doing writs solo.

This would most likely require the devs to completely recode the writs anyway.  The quest would have to somehow determine whether other people were hitting your target without using an encounter lock, which I dont even think they can pull off in pve without some serious code editing.

We also dont need to force people to be solo.  If someone wants to pvp in a group, thats perfectly ok.  The problem is that the main objective for a group should be to find and kill another group.

Now by all means, if that group comes across a solo, they should try to kill it.  But when they succeed they should not each be rewarded the same amount as they would be if they had killed that player by themselves.

This is the basic issue of the writ system.  The system specifically encourages you to outnumber your opponent by as large of a margin as conceivably possible with no down side for doing so.  The system is essentially soe approved token duping.

Eq2's mechanics really arent great for massive zerg pvp, it just turns into a massive clusterf$*# of people randomly spamming buttons.  The most enjoyable and complex fights happen in small groups or solos skirmishing with each other.  This is what most of us remember and enjoyed, and this is what we need to have incentives for.

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Old 07-23-2010, 03:22 PM   #25
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Im all for getting top quality gear, but please do not make it so easy to get it.  Ive said it before, we need incentive to open world pvp. 

 

Pvp servers have something that no other sever have, and that’s a fame system and actual  open pvp. Open pvp is a play style in its own we need to have unique rewards for doing it. The big flaw would be if they made it too easy to get rewards in pvp.

 

If  we would just stop pressing the queue botton for our pvp satisfaction there would be more open world pvp outside the 30 mins of WF.  

 

About the zerg, unfortunately the only thing I can think of the would alleviate not eliminate the zerg  would be the old fame system.  If  death had consequence in pvp than maybe less people would zerge  non stop.  Heck I remember  when it actually meant something when you were champion. Heck a few weeks ago I killed  a champion solo, and I keep loosing slayer lol.

 

I know blubies are crying because of the gear level 80 has , but that’s a step in the right direction.  Make unique open world rewards and bring back the old fame system, and also +1 in the removing  perma immunity.

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Old 07-23-2010, 03:38 PM   #26
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What possible incentive is there to pvp when you are undergeared vs overgeared?  You cannot win, the gear gap is too wide.

OP classes + Fabled gear = impossible to contest = no incentive to continue for anyone else.

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Old 07-23-2010, 03:55 PM   #27
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Just a word of caution:

Be careful about making changes that alienate casual pvper's as it's the casual pvpers who bring the numbers you are looking for.

If you are talking about making extreme pvp gear and making it so you can only get it by intense amounts of pvp such as the token gear Vymn brought up, you run the risk of having a few dozen players getting it quickly and running around slaughtering, without mercy, those who don't have the time or don't pvp enough initially to compete. This will easily scare away the casual pvper and only make the situation worse in regards to pvp population. The same goes for eliminating immunity even in t9 cities where the banker/broker is (i posted in bullets my argument against this in a different post). If you get rid of immunity in t9 cities then you will see more and more casual players doing their banking/brokering/whatnot, in the guild hall inbetween fights instead of in the zones ready to jump back into a fight.

Bringing back the fame/title system is nice because it appeases the hardcore players by giving them bragging rights and most casual pvpers like myself will go about ignoring it as we always have and won't be alienated by other more tangible changes to gameplay.

If all you want to do is have the top teir players killing other top teir players then just get together and bring back BBM duels.

I do like the idea of moving t9 warfeilds to t9 zones. I notice players now out in stonebrunt pvping, then leave when warfeilds begin. Some of them, at least. If you make it so nearly all t9 players are in the relatively same area doing WF and questing/open world pvping, then that will keep the numbers up. As much as I hate having 90's pick off my little dirge as he is questing in stonebrunt, and as much as putting WF's in that same area would only make that worse, I could live with it knowing that I can call for help without having to pull guildies away from token rewards and pvp in ant/cl.

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Old 07-23-2010, 03:55 PM   #28
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Neskonlith wrote:

What possible incentive is there to pvp when you are undergeared vs overgeared?  You cannot win, the gear gap is too wide.

OP classes + Fabled gear = impossible to contest = no incentive to continue for anyone else.

Ive been in the losing end of the undergeared vs overgeard fights there is and can be more motivation to pvp as stated before.  You sound like a afk in perma immunity player in ant/cl

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Old 07-23-2010, 04:02 PM   #29
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[email protected] wrote:

Neskonlith wrote:

What possible incentive is there to pvp when you are undergeared vs overgeared?  You cannot win, the gear gap is too wide.

OP classes + Fabled gear = impossible to contest = no incentive to continue for anyone else.

Ive been in the losing end of the undergeared vs overgeard fights there is and can be more motivation to pvp as stated before.  You sound like a afk in perma immunity player in ant/cl

I think there is the difference between "Oh man, I would totally be able to survive longer than 5 seconds and fight back, perhaps, if I could just get 2 more peices of pvp gear! I think I'll go look for some pvp!" and "That guy has a full set of pvp gear that cost x million tokens which would take me all of next year to get with how often I play.....I think I'll just look for a group for vigilant instead, good gear in there".

I feel the first comment about my dirge currently, I would feel the second comment if some of the really hardcore pvper's had their way. DONT ALIENATE US CASUAL PLAYERS! Just a word of warning.

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Old 07-23-2010, 04:03 PM   #30
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You sound like a afk in perma immunity player in ant/cl

lol

Not all of us on Nagafen are cheating to be competitive - if I cannot access a WF because the pop cap is filled, I do not exploit the rules to bypass the restrictions to gain access, nor will I ever AFK exploit.

What's the point to playing a competitive game if you are going to cheat and invalidate everything that matters in a competition?  How can anyone truly enjoy a reward if it was not honestly earned?

SOE should stop being Soft On Exploiters and invalidate ALL of the exploited Tokens + gear.

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