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Old 06-08-2010, 01:48 AM   #1
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Look, we all know WF's have boosted openworld PVP by leaps and bounds... the problem is the amount of zone lag that they cause..

Everyone floods a zone, regardless of how many of that particular zone there are, people find a way into the one with the current WF that is running.

Here is a simple solution, that im sure has been brought up before, but it needs to be put on the table again.

Split the WF zones into different tier zones... IE:

  • Antonica / Commonlands: 10's, 20's, 30's
  • Thundering Steppes / Nek Forrest:  30's, 40's, 50's
  • Enchanted Lands / Zek: 50's, 60's 70's
  • KP / JW: 70's, 80's, 90's

Of course make the guards of that tier...

  • Ant / CL exterior guards are 10, 20, 30 ... inside guard 30
  • TS / NEK exterior guards are 30, 40, 50... inside 50
  • EL / ZEK exterior guards are 50,60,70... inside 70
  • KP / JW guards are 70, 80, 90... inside 90

This allows plenty of give in group makeup, allows plenty of pvp within your tier, above and below it... and allows everythign to be spread out... even overlap for tiers, so the level 30's can go to CL/ant or they can go to TS... 


A couple of things you can do to prevent Leeches / exploits: (though exploits are always going to be found)

  • Make it so a certain tier can't get WF wins / losses / updates in anything but the zones that have guards in their tiers...
  • Make it so a certain tier cant attack any guard outside their WF zone... IE a lvl 90 cant go in and help kill a lvl 10 guard, they can only kill guards in the ROK zones etc..
  • Start all WF's at the same time so the pvp is spread out in the correct tier and nobody can double dip in tiers where they can be in more then one zone

I think this will help to spread the PVP out so there are a few things addressed:

  • Lag in the zones, causing them to crash
  • Leeching of grays on reds in not only the WF wins but in PVP in general

The way the WF's are set up now is that if you dont have enough lvl 90's in your zone you will lose...  this will allow the spread to be a little smaller... with less leeching and less lag, and more pvp overall, in the proper zones (or at least much more appropriate), god forbid

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Old 06-08-2010, 03:36 AM   #2
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+1

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Old 06-08-2010, 05:04 AM   #3
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That seems extremely well thought out.

+1 from me.

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Old 06-08-2010, 05:16 AM   #4
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+1947829

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Old 06-08-2010, 11:09 AM   #5
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The idea of the OP may work and has merit if you think about the game without any lore. The idea of having the WF in the first place is to defend your city. No one would give 2 hoots about defending KP/JW as it is nowhere near your city. The number of people asking "where do I go... " will be huge.

I'd rather they just fix it SMILEY.

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Old 06-08-2010, 11:26 AM   #6
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+1

Would definitely spread the PvP throughout the open world. More PvP for the reward of PvP SMILEY

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Old 06-08-2010, 01:12 PM   #7
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Grimfort wrote:

The idea of the OP may work and has merit if you think about the game without any lore. The idea of having the WF in the first place is to defend your city. No one would give 2 hoots about defending KP/JW as it is nowhere near your city. The number of people asking "where do I go... " will be huge.

I'd rather they just fix it .

The number of people asking where to go is already huge, so nothing will change if this sort split is adopted.  Everyone cared about Freeport TG in TSO, so why should that change now?

If only SOE could send the broadcasts into the appropriate level-chats with the location, that might be another helpful reminder if they split locations!

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Old 06-08-2010, 01:13 PM   #8
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This is a very good idea, I really hope ohlihin reads this.

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Old 06-08-2010, 01:46 PM   #9
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I can't really envision this happening though.  It's basically like telling him to start over.  I think it's far more likely that we'll get tweaks to what we have rather than a full redesign of the WFs with different zones, tiers, etc.

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Old 06-08-2010, 02:10 PM   #10
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[email protected] wrote:

I can't really envision this happening though.  It's basically like telling him to start over.  I think it's far more likely that we'll get tweaks to what we have rather than a full redesign of the WFs with different zones, tiers, etc.

It is far better to give players a valid objective in split areas to spread the server load, than it is to create a gimped BeeGee by forcing instances with pop caps.  We already have BeeGees, so open-pvp is supposed to be different.

Giving players objectives that are in separate zones is a better way to go - it provides a world-war feeling, and encourages meaningful lower-level participation since the current system merely encourages leeching.  Moving lowbies to other zones in a lore-consistent manner will go a long way towards relieving server stress on the old slow machines SOE must be using.

Why fight over just a couple of cities when we are really fighting over the entire world?  We need fights in all the important level ranges, for strategic zone control. 

The sun shall never set upon the Freeport Protectorate!

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"...Gibbets, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of carrion in the morning. You know, one time we had Freeport TG defended, pvp for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked to their revive spot. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' QQ body. The smell, you know that putrescent smell, the whole writ house. Smelled like… victory..."



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Old 06-08-2010, 02:21 PM   #11
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I'm not disputing the premise at all.  I'm just saying I don't think it's likely to happen.  At least not in the short term.  Eventually?  Who knows. 

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Old 06-08-2010, 02:32 PM   #12
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[email protected] wrote:

I'm not disputing the premise at all.  I'm just saying I don't think it's likely to happen.  At least not in the short term.  Eventually?  Who knows. 

Hopefully SOE can get some good insight from our inciteful discussions, and not just stop with the CL/Ant BeeGee... at least by talking possible options over, we can hopefully provide some useful ideas to implement.

Consider: if an instance pop cap is 100, how many 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70, 80, 90s are going to be allowed to play?  Finding an opponent or two in that mess is not a lot of fun.

Perhaps when the CL/Ant BeeGee is stabilized and refined, the towers can be copied to other zones in other level ranges so that we don't have the entire server population trying to get into one zone, but spreading out into almost all the zones - that way 30s, 40s, etc, will be fighting for control in a zone appropriate for them against others of their own level, for good reasons.

Sure hope SOE can use this idea to help make WF fun for all levels!

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"...Gibbets, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of carrion in the morning. You know, one time we had Freeport TG defended, pvp for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked to their revive spot. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' QQ body. The smell, you know that putrescent smell, the whole writ house. Smelled like… victory..."



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Old 06-08-2010, 02:40 PM   #13
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[email protected] wrote:

I can't really envision this happening though.  It's basically like telling him to start over.  I think it's far more likely that we'll get tweaks to what we have rather than a full redesign of the WFs with different zones, tiers, etc.

If he's played at all, or even watched, during the Live warfields, he should know 100% that he needs to start over. Simple as that. Cause right now, Eq2 is pretty embarassing. I don't even wanna tell my roommates to try it, and they love MMO's/PvP games - but they'd laugh in my face if they were in Commonlands/Antonica for even a minute.

Grimfort wrote:

The idea of the OP may work and has merit if you think about the game without any lore. The idea of having the WF in the first place is to defend your city. No one would give 2 hoots about defending KP/JW as it is nowhere near your city. The number of people asking "where do I go... " will be huge.

I'd rather they just fix it .

Meh, lore is for Role Play servers. I'll take good PvP over an Antonia Bayle tea party. =P

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Old 06-08-2010, 02:48 PM   #14
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YasikoSetsuna wrote:

Meh, lore is for Role Play servers. I'll take good PvP over an Antonia Bayle tea party. =P

Lore is the backstory, the entire reason for the all the scenery and conflicts.  We aren't talking LARP and "lightning bolt! lightning bolt!" here. 

If you really want good pvp without lore, then maybe something like CS might be more your style, you cheese-eatin'-surrender-ratonga!  Thanks for trying to sabotage the discussion...  =P

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"...Gibbets, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of carrion in the morning. You know, one time we had Freeport TG defended, pvp for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked to their revive spot. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' QQ body. The smell, you know that putrescent smell, the whole writ house. Smelled like… victory..."



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Old 06-08-2010, 03:13 PM   #15
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YasikoSetsuna wrote:

If he's played at all, or even watched, during the Live warfields, he should know 100% that he needs to start over. Simple as that. Cause right now, Eq2 is pretty embarassing. I don't even wanna tell my roommates to try it, and they love MMO's/PvP games - but they'd laugh in my face if they were in Commonlands/Antonica for even a minute.

^^^ This

I've actually stopped talking to friends about eq2 because I know I'd be too embarrassed to ask them to join if I let them see me experiencing 10-30 second lag on minimum graphics while using a computer thats atleast twice as powerful as theirs.

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Old 06-08-2010, 04:07 PM   #16
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[email protected] wrote:

YasikoSetsuna wrote:

If he's played at all, or even watched, during the Live warfields, he should know 100% that he needs to start over. Simple as that. Cause right now, Eq2 is pretty embarassing. I don't even wanna tell my roommates to try it, and they love MMO's/PvP games - but they'd laugh in my face if they were in Commonlands/Antonica for even a minute.

^^^ This

I've actually stopped talking to friends about eq2 because I know I'd be too embarrassed to ask them to join if I let them see me experiencing 10-30 second lag on minimum graphics while using a computer thats atleast twice as powerful as theirs.

Seriousness is present. No jokes. =[

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Old 06-08-2010, 04:17 PM   #17
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Well thought out, well written, and saved me typing a whole bunch.. I was intending to start a thread with a lot of those points.. you need to give people a reason, other than AFK token collection, to get out and participate. Let me add the couple things I think the OP missed:

Benefits to Engaging to Warfield PVP:

There are several things I think Dark Ages of Camelot (DAOC) got right, that I think could be applied directly to EQ2/Warfields with tremendous benefit and motivation:

  • Realm Wide Bonuses (Relics) : Raid Qeynos, storm the castle, steal, successfuly transport BACK to your Castle, and hold the "Relic of Power" in Freeport, and ALL freeport aligned characters get +20% in/out of combat power regen. Let there be "Relic of  Health", "Relic of Resistance", "Relic of Enhanced Experience" etc, each with REALM-wide bonuses.
  • Zone-wide Bonuses (Keeps) : When your guild takes a keep (which is manned by NPC's and can be ASSISTED in defense by PC's) your guild gets their NAME on the keep, and any Friendly factioned players within the Zone get 10% EXP/power/health/whatever bonuses. Lose the keep, lose the bonuses. (This also gives players somewhere to run to, port to, etc, while they're out hunting.)
  • 3 Factions : Exiles should be turned into a full-fledged faction, with all the benefits of the other two factions. One of the greatest things about having (3) very separate factions in DAOC was the complexity of battle. you're fighting an enemy and in the back of your mind you know there's a 3rd you both need to be worried about.. will they help me? will they help them? Will they kill us both?

(I have more ideas, but we're trying to keep this simple..... <> )

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Old 06-08-2010, 04:50 PM   #18
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I agree with the orginal post in this forum.

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Old 06-08-2010, 05:06 PM   #19
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[email protected]gafen wrote:

A couple of things you can do to prevent Leeches / exploits: (though exploits are always going to be found)

  • Make it so a certain tier can't get WF wins / losses / updates in anything but the zones that have guards in their tiers...
  • Make it so a certain tier cant attack any guard outside their WF zone... IE a lvl 90 cant go in and help kill a lvl 10 guard, they can only kill guards in the ROK zones etc..
  • Start all WF's at the same time so the pvp is spread out in the correct tier and nobody can double dip in tiers where they can be in more then one zone

To prevent out-of-level-range players from interfering with higher/lower WFs, SOE can put a prismatic dragon on top of each tower and it will either banish or eat any out-of-range players nearby when the WF event is active.

It would be a lot of fun to watch dragons eating griefers!

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Old 06-09-2010, 02:45 AM   #20
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thanks for replys, yeah i really want like the way WF's work... it encourages openworld pvp, teamwork, etc... you get people working together to get a tower or defend a tower... etc etc...

the problem is that there is just too many people, too many tiers... all in one place

A level 10 just joining the game will see this and go, cool, i wonder if i can "play" and go to Commonlands to help with the fight, only to see that its just high tiers and then either not go back, or just leech and lag the server down..

lets face it, as it stands now this is a T9, technically T10 update... Warfields cannot be won without a large quantity of lvl 90 players...

Make it all tiers instead of just T9/T10

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Old 06-09-2010, 02:03 PM   #21
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[email protected] wrote:

thanks for replys, yeah i really want like the way WF's work... it encourages openworld pvp, teamwork, etc... you get people working together to get a tower or defend a tower... etc etc...

the problem is that there is just too many people, too many tiers... all in one place

Yup, the server is gagging on success as so people really want this WF event to work, but SOE hardware is obviously not nearly good enough to handle the task and if they [Removed for Content] WF too much with more BS low-pop caps, open-pvp will die once again.  Pop caps are for BeeGees!

Spread the towers by zones and tiers and improve the servers!

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Old 06-14-2010, 07:16 AM   #22
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I guess I should cry for nerfing something to keep this thread alive so that a red named might see it...

NERF SK's and Pallys...

oh and STR on mage gear ?!? <---[Removed for Content]??.... o.O

and Q's are sissies for outnumbering Freeps...

and make grays carnaged flagged when they attack a red...

and every other topic thats been beaten to death over and over and over and over and over on this forum!!!

There...  

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Old 06-16-2010, 02:31 PM   #23
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Old 06-16-2010, 10:37 PM   #24
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+1

WF are uber laggy but at least sony is fixing it by putting a lock on how many can be in zone at once.

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Old 06-18-2010, 06:43 AM   #25
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[email protected] wrote:

+1

WF are uber laggy but at least sony is fixing it by putting a lock on how many can be in zone at once.

this isnt a fix... this means that  a mixture of 8 Tiers of players will all be mixed throughout all the zones that are open and no one WF or zone will have enough peopl to actually PVP in...

band-aid on a shot gun wound much are we?

The only solution is to spread out the WF's into tier appropriate zones.... otherwise PVP will fail and WF's will fail... as they are now

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Old 06-18-2010, 09:56 AM   #26
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Great idea!  Perhaps in a year when I return from deployment they will beging thinking about implimenting it.

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Old 06-21-2010, 11:56 PM   #27
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[email protected] wrote:

Great idea!  Perhaps in a year when I return from deployment they will beging thinking about implimenting it.

I doubt it... seems to logical to me... spreading pvp out in tiers that it actually belongs in to prevent massive lag in one zone....

Would be nice, but alas, never gonna happen

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Old 06-22-2010, 12:23 AM   #28
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Just like almost every other person on the server says, i do experience a 1 or 2 second lag on spells which is kind of annoying especially if i am casting a spell and have to hope it finished before i can move to chase someone.  The different leveled WF would be perfect.  One thing i hate, being a low leveled player(i personally hate T9 pvp) whenever i fight a scout, or any class that can force me to drop my target, or even change it, there is always 20+ 90s standing around which makes it hard for me to target, and it has happened where i accidently hit a 90 with something and they can start attacking me.  if pvp take all of the 90s away and i'll just be targeting the enemy players that are close enough to my level to fight.  plus, as i am not able to kill almost any level 90 and i can hardly make a dent to a group, i can't do anything about the 90s that just go around killing all of the guards, even the level 30, 50 and 70 ones. If this is changed, then the reward for 15 can be brought back up to 15 tokens because freeport will have some type of a chance.  Otherwise, there is no way to win at the WF because almost all of the T9 freeps just don't care enough to go to the Wf, or they betrayed over to Qeynos so that they could win tokens.  the original post was the best idea to make it even for everyone, not just the level 90 Qs.

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Old 06-22-2010, 01:02 AM   #29
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Grimfort wrote:

The idea of the OP may work and has merit if you think about the game without any lore. The idea of having the WF in the first place is to defend your city. No one would give 2 hoots about defending KP/JW as it is nowhere near your city. The number of people asking "where do I go... " will be huge.

I'd rather they just fix it .

I think it would work if they changed it from defending your city, to attacking a contested tower guardian just for the sake of winning lootz (tokens). I think an awesome idea would be to add contested mobs that take a coordinated raid force to take down. These contested mobs would drop pvp gear, and pvp crit mit and toughness would work against them.

just an idea...

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Old 06-26-2010, 03:44 PM   #30
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I miss the days where there would be an all day fight over Hurricanus or the 3 princes.  No one cares about contested anymore it seems.  Sometimes they will be up for days before they are killed.  I'd say bring that type of environment back, but the huge gap between raid geared players and non raid geared ones would keep it just like it is now.

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