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Old 05-14-2010, 03:00 AM   #1
S3V3R3NC3

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Hey my name is Michael and I have been playing this game since the launch and on nagafen since that server was created.  I have quit this game around eight times always due to being extremely bored, I have always came back because of some small change that I belived to have changed the game, unfortunatley I am always wrong and quit shortly after.

I have been discussing changes with a few of my friends that we belive to have the potential to create a much better pvp experience in everquest 2.  Of course some of these changes would completly nerf certain players and playstyles but I belive that it would make pvp a much more fair and fun experience for everyone which could potentially revive this games dying pvp servers.

Escaping

Remove every form of evac - Evac has always decreased the amount of potential pvp fights, if anyone is caught in a situation where they are surrounded by an enemy or enemies then they should have to fight or attempt to flee on foot.  I belive that this would decrease the amount of people walking around without a care in the world knowing they have to ability to instantly disapear in a moments notice.

Remove track - tracking makes hiding behind objects completly useless, using game landscapes is essentially worthless due to every group and most solo players having track.  I belive that being able to hide behind objects would bring a lot of unique scenarios in pvp that are completly negated by track.  It seems quite stupid to me that if you see a group or a person in the distance you cant hide somewhere and ambush them since you will pop up on their track even if you have found the best hiding spot ever.

Out of combat vs in combat - The speed increase between these two situations is absurd, players can potentially run at 100% out of combat which means that all they need to do to escape a pvp encounter is not attack.  If someone is put into a situation where they are out of combat vs a person in combat, they have very little chance to die and the person in combat has very little chance to kill their target.  This again decreases the amount of potential fights because people can walk around without a care in the world knowing that all they need to do is stay out of combat and they have a very little chance of being killed.

Interupt on every fly pad - Such as ss docks carpet or the pads in SF, there should be a 100% interupt 4-5 second cast time to use any of these so players cannot just hop on a pad and peace out whenever they choose.

What I belive to be the problem with escaping is that it allows people to be extremely cocky about how they play because it is just too easy to escape.  I belive creating situations where if you are caught off guard or you place yourself into an area where there are enemies you will have an extremely high chance of dying or at least be required to kill your way out of the situation.

Gear

I believe that this would bring an extremely large amount of players to the game for pvp.  There is a small amount of people that spend an extremely large amount of time pve'n in order to dominate in pvp.  The gap is so extreme, even with the recent toughness change, that fighting these people is just ridiculous, so ridiculous that anyone who doesnt pve for the majority of their time playing everquest2 will be at such a disadvantage that there is no chance at all of winning an encounter in this situation.  This seems backwards to me, as much as I may be flamed for this, at this point in the game there is almost no skill at all involved in pvp, it is just whos got the better gear.

Pve/Pvp armor tab - Similiar to the appearance tab a new pvp tab would be added for armor, as soon as you engage in pvp combat you will automatically be switched to your pvp tab's gear.  No pve armor would be allowed to go into this tab.  So any raid or heroic zone gear would automatically become useless in a pvp fight.  For a player to begin pvp you could purchase treasured pvp gear from a city merchant or get pvp mastercrafted gear crafted.  Fabled and legendary pvp armor would still exist but with the same restrictions to the pve tab (basically being useless for pve).  Pvp armor could still be aquired as it is now, by pvping.

Stealth/Invis

Stealth/Invis should be limited to certain classes, stealth should really only be on predators not rouges and bard.  Invis should stay on mages but they should have to be standing still in order for it to work.  All stealth and invis totems should be removed.  Also all see invis and stealth totems should be removed.  See invis and stealth should be limited to stealth for predators and see invis for mages.  I think that allowing every class to invis and stealth while allowing every class to see invis and stealth is a complete waste of time.  In order for a predator to gain stealth in pvp combat they should have to break line of site with their enemy instead of just being able to stealth right in front of your face.  (of course a lot of their combat arts would have to be reworked).

In combat pvp

Snaring - I never understood why there was no immunity placed on snaring like on stuns stifles ect but there definetly should be one.  Also some classes snares seem to be a bit too high for pvp, I think slowing someone by 80% speed pretty much renders them useless and since you can stack the snares it becomes almost an entire fight snare.  I belive there should be a cap on the snare amount such as 30%.

Knockback - There should also be an immunity to this since a chain of knockbacks can end a fight before the other player even has a chance.

Who you can and can not engage - If there is going to be a level restriction on how low a level you can attack then there should also be a level restriction on how high a level you can attack.  I do not think its fair that greys can potentially sit and wait for the most opportune time to engage you while the whole time you cant ever attack them until they decide when.

Class balances - this one is too long to post but I'm sure everyones aware of a few classes being overpowered in pvp.

Speed hack programs - I swear everyone is using these now, it just completley ruins any chance of having a fun experience if you are not using one.  Sony needs to find a way to stop these programs for working, or in a worst case scenario, suspend or ban everyone using them.

Rez zerging - I know you can no longer rez zerg when you are in a group that is still engaged, but if you are solo you still have free reign to zerg as much as you want.  I think that there needs to be a legitimate penatly to rez sickness, not a 10% decrease to your hp and stats, but instead a 95% decrease.  Also the timer should be increased to 3-4 minutes.  You should also not be able to gain any reward at all when you have rez sickness on but still lose infamy.

Infamy system

I believe that a new infamy system should be implimented that is similiar to the the old one but with a few tweaks. 

 Firstly, you should once again lose fame if you die in pvp but the difference being that you lose infamy if you die to anyone, not just someone who is + or - 1 infamy away from you. 

Secondly, if you are attacked 1v6 for example, you do not lose an entire level of infamy but instead you lose 1/6th of a hit.  The group of 6 gains 1/6th of a hit of infamy which is split between each member.  A 1v1 fight would gain 1 infamy hit for the winner and a loss of 1 infamy for the loser.  A 6v6 would gain 1/6th of a hit per person killed for a total of 1 hit for each member of the winning team and 1 loss for each member of the losing team.

Thirdly, I belive that there should be some sort of pvp reward for having higher infamy, such as the ability to wear higher tier pvp armor, infamy could still decrease over time naturally to avoid certain players from becoming too powerful compared to everyone else.

I think all the recent changes to pvp are great but I do not think that sony is looking at the root of the problem with the current pvp, there is more reward to pvp by pve'n than pvp'n, there is literally no skill involved in pvp, there are some classes that are just obsurdly better than others which creates an enormous amount of them being rolled which in turn becomes extremely repetitive and there are just too many ways to completely avoid pvp encounters.  I belive that if any of these changes were actually implimented, the pvp experience in everquest 2 would be increased significantely.

I'm sure all of this has been said before in the past but I thought I'd just bring it up again!

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Old 05-14-2010, 04:49 AM   #2
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S3V3R3NC3 wrote:

Escaping

Remove every form of evac - Evac has always decreased the amount of potential pvp fights, if anyone is caught in a situation where they are surrounded by an enemy or enemies then they should have to fight or attempt to flee on foot.  I belive that this would decrease the amount of people walking around without a care in the world knowing they have to ability to instantly disapear in a moments notice.

Remove track - tracking makes hiding behind objects completly useless, using game landscapes is essentially worthless due to every group and most solo players having track.  I belive that being able to hide behind objects would bring a lot of unique scenarios in pvp that are completly negated by track.  It seems quite stupid to me that if you see a group or a person in the distance you cant hide somewhere and ambush them since you will pop up on their track even if you have found the best hiding spot ever.

Out of combat vs in combat - The speed increase between these two situations is absurd, players can potentially run at 100% out of combat which means that all they need to do to escape a pvp encounter is not attack.  If someone is put into a situation where they are out of combat vs a person in combat, they have very little chance to die and the person in combat has very little chance to kill their target.  This again decreases the amount of potential fights because people can walk around without a care in the world knowing that all they need to do is stay out of combat and they have a very little chance of being killed.

Stealth/Invis

Stealth/Invis should be limited to certain classes, stealth should really only be on predators not rouges and bard.  Invis should stay on mages but they should have to be standing still in order for it to work.  All stealth and invis totems should be removed.  Also all see invis and stealth totems should be removed.  See invis and stealth should be limited to stealth for predators and see invis for mages.  I think that allowing every class to invis and stealth while allowing every class to see invis and stealth is a complete waste of time.  In order for a predator to gain stealth in pvp combat they should have to break line of site with their enemy instead of just being able to stealth right in front of your face.  (of course a lot of their combat arts would have to be reworked).

In combat pvp

Snaring - I never understood why there was no immunity placed on snaring like on stuns stifles ect but there definetly should be one.  Also some classes snares seem to be a bit too high for pvp, I think slowing someone by 80% speed pretty much renders them useless and since you can stack the snares it becomes almost an entire fight snare.  I belive there should be a cap on the snare amount such as 30%.

Knockback - There should also be an immunity to this since a chain of knockbacks can end a fight before the other player even has a chance.

No, no, no, no, no and no.

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Old 05-14-2010, 05:33 AM   #3
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S3V3R3NC3 wrote:

Hey my name is Michael and I have been playing this game since the launch and on nagafen since that server was created.  I have quit this game around eight times always due to being extremely bored, I have always came back because of some small change that I belived to have changed the game, unfortunatley I am always wrong and quit shortly after.

I have been discussing changes with a few of my friends that we belive to have the potential to create a much better pvp experience in everquest 2.  Of course some of these changes would completly nerf certain players and playstyles but I belive that it would make pvp a much more fair and fun experience for everyone which could potentially revive this games dying pvp servers.

Escaping

Remove every form of evac - Evac has always decreased the amount of potential pvp fights, if anyone is caught in a situation where they are surrounded by an enemy or enemies then they should have to fight or attempt to flee on foot.  I belive that this would decrease the amount of people walking around without a care in the world knowing they have to ability to instantly disapear in a moments notice.

Remove track - tracking makes hiding behind objects completly useless, using game landscapes is essentially worthless due to every group and most solo players having track.  I belive that being able to hide behind objects would bring a lot of unique scenarios in pvp that are completly negated by track.  It seems quite stupid to me that if you see a group or a person in the distance you cant hide somewhere and ambush them since you will pop up on their track even if you have found the best hiding spot ever.

Out of combat vs in combat - The speed increase between these two situations is absurd, players can potentially run at 100% out of combat which means that all they need to do to escape a pvp encounter is not attack.  If someone is put into a situation where they are out of combat vs a person in combat, they have very little chance to die and the person in combat has very little chance to kill their target.  This again decreases the amount of potential fights because people can walk around without a care in the world knowing that all they need to do is stay out of combat and they have a very little chance of being killed.

What I belive to be the problem with escaping is that it allows people to be extremely cocky about how they play because it is just too easy to escape.  I belive creating situations where if you are caught off guard or you place yourself into an area where there are enemies you will have an extremely high chance of dying or at least be required to kill your way out of the situation.

Gear

I believe that this would bring an extremely large amount of players to the game for pvp.  There is a small amount of people that spend an extremely large amount of time pve'n in order to dominate in pvp.  The gap is so extreme, even with the recent toughness change, that fighting these people is just ridiculous, so ridiculous that anyone who doesnt pve for the majority of their time playing everquest2 will be at such a disadvantage that there is no chance at all of winning an encounter in this situation.  This seems backwards to me, as much as I may be flamed for this, at this point in the game there is almost no skill at all involved in pvp, it is just whos got the better gear.

Pve/Pvp armor tab - Similiar to the appearance tab a new pvp tab would be added for armor, as soon as you engage in pvp combat you will automatically be switched to your pvp tab's gear.  No pve armor would be allowed to go into this tab.  So any raid or heroic zone gear would automatically become useless in a pvp fight.  For a player to begin pvp you could purchase treasured pvp gear from a city merchant or get pvp mastercrafted gear crafted.  Fabled and legendary pvp armor would still exist but with the same restrictions to the pve tab (basically being useless for pve).  Pvp armor could still be aquired as it is now, by pvping.

Stealth/Invis

Stealth/Invis should be limited to certain classes, stealth should really only be on predators not rouges and bard.  Invis should stay on mages but they should have to be standing still in order for it to work.  All stealth and invis totems should be removed.  Also all see invis and stealth totems should be removed.  See invis and stealth should be limited to stealth for predators and see invis for mages.  I think that allowing every class to invis and stealth while allowing every class to see invis and stealth is a complete waste of time.  In order for a predator to gain stealth in pvp combat they should have to break line of site with their enemy instead of just being able to stealth right in front of your face.  (of course a lot of their combat arts would have to be reworked).

In combat pvp

Snaring - I never understood why there was no immunity placed on snaring like on stuns stifles ect but there definetly should be one.  Also some classes snares seem to be a bit too high for pvp, I think slowing someone by 80% speed pretty much renders them useless and since you can stack the snares it becomes almost an entire fight snare.  I belive there should be a cap on the snare amount such as 30%.

Knockback - There should also be an immunity to this since a chain of knockbacks can end a fight before the other player even has a chance.

Who you can and can not engage - If there is going to be a level restriction on how low a level you can attack then there should also be a level restriction on how high a level you can attack.  I do not think its fair that greys can potentially sit and wait for the most opportune time to engage you while the whole time you cant ever attack them until they decide when.

Class balances - this one is too long to post but I'm sure everyones aware of a few classes being overpowered in pvp.

Speed hack programs - I swear everyone is using these now, it just completley ruins any chance of having a fun experience if you are not using one.  Sony needs to find a way to stop these programs for working, or in a worst case scenario, suspend or ban everyone using them.

Rez zerging - I know you can no longer rez zerg when you are in a group that is still engaged, but if you are solo you still have free reign to zerg as much as you want.  I think that there needs to be a legitimate penatly to rez sickness, not a 10% decrease to your hp and stats, but instead a 95% decrease.  Also the timer should be increased to 3-4 minutes.  You should also not be able to gain any reward at all when you have rez sickness on but still lose infamy.

Infamy system

I believe that a new infamy system should be implimented that is similiar to the the old one but with a few tweaks. 

 Firstly, you should once again lose fame if you die in pvp but the difference being that you lose infamy if you die to anyone, not just someone who is + or - 1 infamy away from you. 

Secondly, if you are attacked 1v6 for example, you do not lose an entire level of infamy but instead you lose 1/6th of a hit.  The group of 6 gains 1/6th of a hit of infamy which is split between each member.  A 1v1 fight would gain 1 infamy hit for the winner and a loss of 1 infamy for the loser.  A 6v6 would gain 1/6th of a hit per person killed for a total of 1 hit for each member of the winning team and 1 loss for each member of the losing team.

Thirdly, I belive that there should be some sort of pvp reward for having higher infamy, such as the ability to wear higher tier pvp armor, infamy could still decrease over time naturally to avoid certain players from becoming too powerful compared to everyone else.

I think all the recent changes to pvp are great but I do not think that sony is looking at the root of the problem with the current pvp, there is more reward to pvp by pve'n than pvp'n, there is literally no skill involved in pvp, there are some classes that are just obsurdly better than others which creates an enormous amount of them being rolled which in turn becomes extremely repetitive and there are just too many ways to completely avoid pvp encounters.  I belive that if any of these changes were actually implimented, the pvp experience in everquest 2 would be increased significantely.

I'm sure all of this has been said before in the past but I thought I'd just bring it up again!

I dont like alot of your ideas.

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Old 05-14-2010, 06:00 AM   #4
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Shh, back to your hole.

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Old 05-14-2010, 07:48 AM   #5
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original post was way too long for me to want to read it
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Old 05-14-2010, 11:10 AM   #6
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all are valid points but with a few modifications here and there. escaping should be no evac or no zone if you are attacking in pvp (which we have) and no zone or evac if you are being attacked (even if you dont attack back) it means you better go to instance or evac before someone hits you. if you cant handle pvp go to pve server.

snares are fine. it enforces pvp you engage you should either kill them or be killed.

I do think run speeds should be limited to 50% out of combat and 10% incombat for bards only.

Infamy does need changed.

1. you kill a pvper, you gain fame.

2. you die to a pvper, you lose fame.

3. you stay in immunity and are not moving around or crafting your fame starts to decay slowly and without killing in pvp it will continue to decay till fame gained.

4. hunter should get big amount of fame for killing mater title. Master title should get very small amount of fame for killing hunter.

5. reset all fame to no title and let this begin again.

6. Also when you log on to a toon small fame decay. keeps those from sitting pretty on docks with their big title.

7. Greys should get no reward in pvp meaning fame or writ update if they are not in the /pvp_range range for that zone. enough with the leeching. 10-19's should be in their zone/zones pvping to get updates not out leeching. this is not pvp when this happens. If greys do get updates at least let the red they attack get them if they kill the greys. reds should get updates from greys. I think if under lvl 40 no updates from pvp if in SS and zones that can rougly be started at lvl 40. this would enforce you to stay to your zone and spread the pvp gank fest out.

stealth inviz and totems are fine.

Knockbacks are fine.

class balance is almost fine. dont nerf just bump up those who are lagging in some way. IMO go play the OP class or shut up.

rez zerg. solos should have more penality for same amount time just bump up the penaltiy from 10% to 50% and i think it will slow it some.

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Old 05-15-2010, 07:05 AM   #7
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[email protected] wrote:

original post was way too long for me to want to read it

/nods

WALL FTL

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Old 05-15-2010, 05:56 PM   #8
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Well - tbh, the rangers have incombat runspeed, which gives them a quite unfair advantage in open world pvp. And then a idea to stop leeching: SOE - please make it so that if you kill a grey whos been attacking you, and you kill him, you get a freakin writ update. End of leeching. End of story.
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Old 05-15-2010, 07:06 PM   #9
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S3V3R3NC3 wrote

Snaring - I never understood why there was no immunity placed on snaring like on stuns stifles ect but there definetly should be one.  Also some classes snares seem to be a bit too high for pvp, I think slowing someone by 80% speed pretty much renders them useless and since you can stack the snares it becomes almost an entire fight snare.  I belive there should be a cap on the snare amount such as 30%.

Feel free to use some of those landscape tactics you were talking about to remove your opponents line of sight and cure that snare.

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Old 05-15-2010, 09:56 PM   #10
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30% cap on snare is quite amusing really concidering if you sprinted you would be able to close on someone with a net gain of 10% run speed which will let anyone close on on the kiter and kill them. Unless you want both of them oop by sprinting and let who has the biggest auto attack win. 

As to who posted rangers having IC run speed, AAs for giving IC run speed in PvP have been disabled for the majority of classes that includes rangers for well over a year. Only classes with a boosted run speed in PvP I can think of off hand is bard AA into selos, monk's sprint AA and maybe some select items.

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Old 05-16-2010, 04:48 AM   #11
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[email protected] wrote:

30% cap on snare is quite amusing really concidering if you sprinted you would be able to close on someone with a net gain of 10% run speed which will let anyone close on on the kiter and kill them. Unless you want both of them oop by sprinting and let who has the biggest auto attack win. 

As to who posted rangers having IC run speed, AAs for giving IC run speed in PvP have been disabled for the majority of classes that includes rangers for well over a year. Only classes with a boosted run speed in PvP I can think of off hand is bard AA into selos, monk's sprint AA and maybe some select items.

Uhm - perhaps it has been disabled via the AA tree. But yet, they do have some spell / ability (cant remember the name atm, but will post it) which gives them 8% in-combat runspeed, agi of 50+ or so, and some other stuff. SMILEY So yes - rangers DO have in-combat runspeed.. SMILEY I do understand the need for..errrr...speed for survivability, but seriously - this is ridiculous SMILEY

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Old 05-16-2010, 06:13 AM   #12
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Hallowell,

Ranger have NO pvp in-combat run speed at all, unless they have items that allow them to do so!

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Old 05-16-2010, 09:33 AM   #13
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30% snare cap is an absolutely stupid idea. Snares are the one thing that keep certain classes alive, take that away and we'll see even more SKs and wardens.

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Old 05-16-2010, 01:12 PM   #14
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

30% cap on snare is quite amusing really concidering if you sprinted you would be able to close on someone with a net gain of 10% run speed which will let anyone close on on the kiter and kill them. Unless you want both of them oop by sprinting and let who has the biggest auto attack win. 

As to who posted rangers having IC run speed, AAs for giving IC run speed in PvP have been disabled for the majority of classes that includes rangers for well over a year. Only classes with a boosted run speed in PvP I can think of off hand is bard AA into selos, monk's sprint AA and maybe some select items.

Uhm - perhaps it has been disabled via the AA tree. But yet, they do have some spell / ability (cant remember the name atm, but will post it) which gives them 8% in-combat runspeed, agi of 50+ or so, and some other stuff. So yes - rangers DO have in-combat runspeed.. I do understand the need for..errrr...speed for survivability, but seriously - this is ridiculous

Hunters Instinct gives OOC run speed on PvP servers instead of IC run speed and has for some time, do some research before saying statements k ? 

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Old 05-16-2010, 02:03 PM   #15
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I posted on the actual everquest 2 forums in hopes of not being trolled, I see that has failed, oh well.  Anyways thanks to 1 person who actually made a constructive comment, I suppose then 30% would be too low, perhaps 50% to make sure that the kiters could not be caught by sprint.  The problem I'm trying to address with snaring is the idea that as soon as someone who has a snare wants to leave a fight, all they have to do is snare the person for the 37th time and the fights over.

By the way twelve, I said a lot of classes need to be balanced, sk's and wardens are obviously on the top of that list.

To the comment about curing the snare, unless the snarer is an idiot, good luck curing the snare, 99% of the time you'll be forced to cure something else.

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Old 05-17-2010, 07:10 AM   #16
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Rabbitoh wrote:

Hallowell,

Ranger have NO pvp in-combat run speed at all, unless they have items that allow them to do so!

As posted above, I have seen countless of rangers with a buff on which gave the "RANGER" in-combat runspeed of 8%... in this case, it was not just something he had "popped" since it had "RANGER" in the description...but oh well..

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Old 05-17-2010, 07:12 AM   #17
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

30% cap on snare is quite amusing really concidering if you sprinted you would be able to close on someone with a net gain of 10% run speed which will let anyone close on on the kiter and kill them. Unless you want both of them oop by sprinting and let who has the biggest auto attack win. 

As to who posted rangers having IC run speed, AAs for giving IC run speed in PvP have been disabled for the majority of classes that includes rangers for well over a year. Only classes with a boosted run speed in PvP I can think of off hand is bard AA into selos, monk's sprint AA and maybe some select items.

Uhm - perhaps it has been disabled via the AA tree. But yet, they do have some spell / ability (cant remember the name atm, but will post it) which gives them 8% in-combat runspeed, agi of 50+ or so, and some other stuff. So yes - rangers DO have in-combat runspeed.. I do understand the need for..errrr...speed for survivability, but seriously - this is ridiculous

Hunters Instinct gives OOC run speed on PvP servers instead of IC run speed and has for some time, do some research before saying statements k ? 

This was the one, yes. The name...but - it still stated "in-combat runspeed" and the ranger WAS running faster than 0% (and was not using sprint) - but thanks for clearing it up SMILEY

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Old 05-17-2010, 07:41 AM   #18
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

30% cap on snare is quite amusing really concidering if you sprinted you would be able to close on someone with a net gain of 10% run speed which will let anyone close on on the kiter and kill them. Unless you want both of them oop by sprinting and let who has the biggest auto attack win. 

As to who posted rangers having IC run speed, AAs for giving IC run speed in PvP have been disabled for the majority of classes that includes rangers for well over a year. Only classes with a boosted run speed in PvP I can think of off hand is bard AA into selos, monk's sprint AA and maybe some select items.

Uhm - perhaps it has been disabled via the AA tree. But yet, they do have some spell / ability (cant remember the name atm, but will post it) which gives them 8% in-combat runspeed, agi of 50+ or so, and some other stuff. So yes - rangers DO have in-combat runspeed.. I do understand the need for..errrr...speed for survivability, but seriously - this is ridiculous

Hunters Instinct gives OOC run speed on PvP servers instead of IC run speed and has for some time, do some research before saying statements k ? 

This was the one, yes. The name...but - it still stated "in-combat runspeed" and the ranger WAS running faster than 0% (and was not using sprint) - but thanks for clearing it up

Let me clear it up for you, Hunters Instinct says "in combat run speed" on the buff, but it doesnt apply to PVP combat... and if a ranger has you snared up, and is himself running 0, that would give the illusion that he is running "faster then 0"...

If you are snared to -40, and he is running at 0, then he is running 40 faster then you...

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Old 11-06-2010, 08:42 PM   #19
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I still think this is relevant, even moreso than when I orginally posted it.

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