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Old 12-02-2008, 09:28 PM   #1
Zzasrix

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I really need help from the Pally community.... I like playing my Pally, and, until this expansion, I thought I was good at it.  However, out of all the new TSO zones I've tried to tank, I've only cleared Befallen: Afflicted.

Evernight Abby-Fail, snake chick and end mob

Forge-Fail, end mob

Miragul's (last zone)-Fail, AoE room and x3 casters

Nurgan mine zone in Fens-Fail, Bricktop and the summoned mob

I know my gear isnt the greatest, and I am working on that, but our small guild does no raiding and I am in whatever I can get from the RoK zones and new drops.

I think I have some decent stats and AA, but Ill list them here just in case: HP-12.4 self buffed, 4400 Mit, Saves in the 5-9k range, 47% avoidence, I do unfortunatly have 0% crit mit presently.

AA: Crusader: Str 4-4-6-8-2, Wis 4-4-8-7-2, Sta 4-4-4-8, Paladin: Heal line, Cure line, Shield line TSO: HP, Power (Yes i need more aa, but who doesnt atm SMILEY)

I normally group with a Wizzy (Amends target), Defiler (maxes out at about 1k HPS with everything going), Ranger, Swash, and whatever else we can fill in with... usually a Fury/Inquis or a Coercer.

So my main question is... is there anything glaring that is wrong here?  I would really love to save this toon, but when I cant stand up infront of some of these mobs for more than 5 or 6 seconds... thats just not good enough.

Thank you for listening.

Z

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Old 12-02-2008, 10:24 PM   #2
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Zzasrix wrote:

I really need help from the Pally community.... I like playing my Pally, and, until this expansion, I thought I was good at it.  However, out of all the new TSO zones I've tried to tank, I've only cleared Befallen: Afflicted.

Evernight Abby-Fail, snake chick and end mob

Forge-Fail, end mob

Miragul's (last zone)-Fail, AoE room and x3 casters

Nurgan mine zone in Fens-Fail, Bricktop and the summoned mob

I know my gear isnt the greatest, and I am working on that, but our small guild does no raiding and I am in whatever I can get from the RoK zones and new drops.

I think I have some decent stats and AA, but Ill list them here just in case: HP-12.4 self buffed, 4400 Mit, Saves in the 5-9k range, 47% avoidence, I do unfortunatly have 0% crit mit presently.

AA: Crusader: Str 4-4-6-8-2, Wis 4-4-8-7-2, Sta 4-4-4-8, Paladin: Heal line, Cure line, Shield line TSO: HP, Power (Yes i need more aa, but who doesnt atm )

I normally group with a Wizzy (Amends target), Defiler (maxes out at about 1k HPS with everything going), Ranger, Swash, and whatever else we can fill in with... usually a Fury/Inquis or a Coercer.

So my main question is... is there anything glaring that is wrong here?  I would really love to save this toon, but when I cant stand up infront of some of these mobs for more than 5 or 6 seconds... thats just not good enough.

Thank you for listening.

Z

I haven't been in all of those, and have gotten my clock cleaned in some of the same instances ( the X 3 casters in Crucible for one was a pain in the neck).  What I am finding is that LOTS of these new fights are gimicky.  You don't click the right thing, stand on the right platform, keep moving in a circle while rubbing your stomach and patting your head at the same time, you aren't winning the fight.  Thats why for the ones that scale some people have started mentoring into them first.  Gives you a couple bonuses, first like 300% extra AA exp, 2nd the extra time and breathing space you need to figure out the strat without having huge repair bills.

I am sure the Pallies can give you pointers on the rest but I think the gimicky thing is at least a big a factor (if not more) than you if you AA's are good and your gear is passable. 

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Old 12-03-2008, 01:49 AM   #3
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What the above poster said is pretty much the gist of it. Although your avoidance is low, there doesn't seem to be anything seriously wrong with you. Some of these fights just have very specific conditions or you and your group will die. However, if anything I would suggest dropping the Wisdom line and going with stamina. I know its cliche but DA is something that can save more then you could imagine.

I've cleared most of the expansion's instances now and can think of a few that DA is an absolute must on. For instance, the last bubble of health on the King looking guy on the loping plains instance. AE avoidance can save the rest of the group, but you will go down without DA. There are several other fights where just having one person AE avoid and you cast DA can solve the problem.

Fear immunity is nice, but nothing that crouch/walk can't solve and an able healer. Also, once you get Aura of the Crusader its even less of a problem, making the wisdom line even more useless.

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Old 12-03-2008, 05:06 AM   #4
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The only thing I see outright is that your avoidance is low, and that does hurt. Anything that increases your shield effectiveness, blocking and parry is a good thing. This is an area that Paladins can really struggle with, but it is possible to get your avoidance up there through gear.

I'd also suggest looking for pickup raids for SoH and T1 raids. SoH has some very nice drops for Paladins, and there's actually encounters that need a Crusader. PR and Thuuga are extremely easy raids, and pickup raids for them are common on most servers. Pawbuster is another one that's not difficult, and greatly benefits from having a Paladin as the MT. You don't need fabled to run the easier TSO instances, but it helps and some gear isn't too difficult to get.

As far as your AAs are concerned, I'd really suggest dumping the WIS line. As another poster suggested, go STA instead. DA will help you help your healers when the going gets tough by allowing them to catch you up. There's another post here where I recommend spec lines for MT Paladins.

As to the general issue about the instances, yes, a lot of the encounters are gimmicky. But you also have to realize that you can't just carry groups through the instance. Everyone has to do their job, pay attention, not screw around and perform. Obviously the amount of damage you can take and how well you control the encounters is very important; but so is the amount of healing being done, how quickly healers get cures off (some instances will really punish you if you have a healer who's slow on cures), how much DPS the group is putting out and so on.

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Old 12-03-2008, 12:42 PM   #5
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honestly I think your fine bud, they way your set up and stat wise doesn't seem bad or awful, it's good for someone who doesn't raid. These zones and the bosses within them contain a lot of scripts and strategy to kill, can't just straight up tank them anymore. I think it's good that they are like this because it gives the non raiders a feel for what a raid will be like..whenever I do these instances it feels like a mini raid to me, a lot of positioning, jousting, scripting, hard hitting mobs, it's a blast I love it. Once you can figure out a strat I'm sure it'll be much smoother.

I know for the bricktop named thing u need super high DPS to burn the hell out of that mob, u have to out dps his healing ability. There might be another way to do it, but that's the only way for now that I've seen work succesfully.

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Old 12-03-2008, 02:27 PM   #6
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[email protected] wrote:

I know for the bricktop named thing u need super high DPS to burn the hell out of that mob, u have to out dps his healing ability. There might be another way to do it, but that's the only way for now that I've seen work succesfully.

Although this is OT, I just wanted to point out that you can do Bricktop without spectacular DPS but it does require that you have your casters spam dispell magic on him, put as many DoTs on him as you can and you need to have everyone hitting him (pets, mages, healers autoattacking... everyone). The reason is that his buff absorbs 20 hits, not a specific amount of damage. A caster hitting him for 20 points drops one of those as well as an assassin hitting him for 5,000.

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Old 12-12-2008, 03:04 PM   #7
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I sure remember my days of sucking as a Paladin... (well... still do, but less suckier now then beforeSMILEY

What I can tell you is a few adjustments i made...

1. Adornments, I muted all my fabled and legendary i got that didnt use and muted it for crystallized mana, I currently have 4 peices of gear with the adornments for +8 parry on forearms, and +3 parry on wrist, i think.

2.  Adorn everything , in every slot, it's like getting a piece of gear with +50wis/+50 int, then  you add +16 wisdom adornment on it.. Well.. there you go, +65 wisdom is pretty darn neato!

3.  Read the forums, here and flames, get to know your pally spells and orders.. small things, like using a divine debuff, preferrably before a divine damage spell SMILEY  sounds simple, but hey, some folks just don't know that.

4.  Get to know your spell order, and time your auto attacks, (this section will get argued with the most).  See, i have mashed buttons and let me give you an example. 

Shard of hate, fights last 50-55 seconds average with my raid force right now. My epic and simple voes/coa gear was doing about 1,600 damage per second (dps) on average, maybe a few 1,800, some lower, but that would be an average, after I adorned everything, and learned to time some auto attacks, wow.  

    I can hit average in a crappy group for 2.7k because my auto attack is now hitting.  my melee perentage was always at about 40-50% hit ratio.  But after reading the forums, I learned to time it with combat arts and spell arts.  Now my melee hits at least 75% up to 93% depending on how much Im paying attention.  On a good group i have hit 4k, unheard of for my toon.  So... when you double attack 40% of your auto attacks, you need to hit them. So don't be a button masher, watch your damage, and when you hit melee, use your 2 combat arts, or one spell, you will do a lot more damage.

Personally, I am at the point where i am learning about caps/ and diminishing returns and all that college level play stuff SMILEY

I wouldn't reroll a toon, even as a sucky Paladin, I cant sit still for more then 10 minutes in game without getting invites to do the level 1 and level 2 TSO instances.  I do need two healers, and i have a few who love to work with me because my ability to use all of my utilities seems better then most paladins. 

Your doing fine, I just think you need to readdress your spell order, and your timing, get adornments, and learn which AA lines will help with which zones.

Good luck and have fun SMILEY

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Old 12-17-2008, 03:56 PM   #8
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u know what bro, the best Palys are the ones perfectly able to stand on their own, and by that i mean the ones that are really good (and specced) to solo.  the self sufficient ones that dont really rely to heavily on others will be able MT almost anything (raids included), this way the healers are given a neccessary breather, or given the oppurtunity to heal themselves or others in case the opposition throws an AE at ur group.  i've got a buddy thats a Conjy, and just the two of us have taken all kinds of ^^^-mobs.

and also ask what other Palys are doing, then use and implement their ideas to eventually create ur own unique hybrid strategy, (u are a hybrid class afterall, right).  i personally want to get my preferred Crusader Tree setup going first then do the Paladin and Shadow Trees afterwards; my preferred lines are STR, INT (im not gonna do endline on this, i just wanna get my spell crit up), STA, and im gonna put probably 8 aa's into the Cavaliers Agility to increase my avoidance. 

alright, peace .

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Old 12-17-2008, 04:05 PM   #9
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Zzasrix wrote:

I really need help from the Pally community.... I like playing my Pally, and, until this expansion, I thought I was good at it. However, out of all the new TSO zones I've tried to tank, I've only cleared Befallen: Afflicted.

Evernight Abby-Fail, snake chick and end mob

Forge-Fail, end mob

Miragul's (last zone)-Fail, AoE room and x3 casters

Nurgan mine zone in Fens-Fail, Bricktop and the summoned mob

I know my gear isnt the greatest, and I am working on that, but our small guild does no raiding and I am in whatever I can get from the RoK zones and new drops.

I think I have some decent stats and AA, but Ill list them here just in case: HP-12.4 self buffed, 4400 Mit, Saves in the 5-9k range, 47% avoidence, I do unfortunatly have 0% crit mit presently.

AA: Crusader: Str 4-4-6-8-2, Wis 4-4-8-7-2, Sta 4-4-4-8, Paladin: Heal line, Cure line, Shield line TSO: HP, Power (Yes i need more aa, but who doesnt atm )

I normally group with a Wizzy (Amends target), Defiler (maxes out at about 1k HPS with everything going), Ranger, Swash, and whatever else we can fill in with... usually a Fury/Inquis or a Coercer.

So my main question is... is there anything glaring that is wrong here? I would really love to save this toon, but when I cant stand up infront of some of these mobs for more than 5 or 6 seconds... thats just not good enough.

Thank you for listening.

Z

While I do not play a Paladin I will say that I too have been struggling with TSO instances...Its not just you.

These zones/encounters simply are not friendly to what I view as Guardian/Paladin style of tanking.

We can do it however...its just not as easy as with a SK or Zerker.

-Evernight Abbey - has become one of my favorite...the Python encounter is the roughest. This one is pretty much in the hands of your healer(s). The final guy is actually easy once you know the routine and EVERYONE...I mean EVERYONE does exactly what they are suppose too at the correct time. Again its a single mob...does not hit that hard...so for us forgotten tanks its really pretty simple.

-Miragul's - never been there so cannot comment.

-Nuroga - just skip Bricktop. Not required for any missions or shards. The zone sucks because has a ton of trash clearing...however the drops from the final are well worth it.

All these new encounters are more about teamwork than they are about who tanks or who heals. It took my groups several wipes to figure out most of the encounters.

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Old 12-24-2008, 03:33 PM   #10
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bricktop doesn't leash anymore SMILEY  making it easy.. just have your group stand below the level hes on, go up, hit him with your bow or judgement, jump off, and run to wall hes on, hold him there, and your group can put their back up against the pillars that hold his ledge up.  We did this and killed him on the first pull, the knockback just puts you straight up in the air, hits his ledge.. and you fall right back down...  try it next time.. youll like it.

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Old 12-24-2008, 04:49 PM   #11
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[email protected] wrote:

What the above poster said is pretty much the gist of it. Although your avoidance is low, there doesn't seem to be anything seriously wrong with you. Some of these fights just have very specific conditions or you and your group will die. However, if anything I would suggest dropping the Wisdom line and going with stamina. I know its cliche but DA is something that can save more then you could imagine.

I've cleared most of the expansion's instances now and can think of a few that DA is an absolute must on. For instance, the last bubble of health on the King looking guy on the loping plains instance. AE avoidance can save the rest of the group, but you will go down without DA. There are several other fights where just having one person AE avoid and you cast DA can solve the problem.

Fear immunity is nice, but nothing that crouch/walk can't solve and an able healer. Also, once you get Aura of the Crusader its even less of a problem, making the wisdom line even more useless.

This, x2.  The wisdom line is really, utterly useless with the exception of the fear immunity.  It cannot be stressed enough how essential the STA line is for group tanks.  Melee crit, extra hit points, and Divine Aura are all hugely beneficial, much more so than the paultry buffs you get from the worthless WIS line.  I'd also suggest going 4/4/8 INT.  A huge part of our dps as paladin is spell damage, and having that 68% spell crit will help you immensely.  Aside from that, there are a few things to consider:

-Do you tank in offensive stance?  Get rid of it if you do.  You likely need the extra avoidance and mitigation from your defensive stance.

-Adorn everything.  I use anything that will boost my avoidance or health.  Often, those first ten seconds or so of a fight are the worst, and if you can either avoid those huge opening hits, or just have enough health to survive, so much the better.

-Consider the skill/set-up of the rest of your group.  Remember how when RoK came out, and we all had to adjust our tactics to accomodate the new mechanics and zones?  It's time to do that once again.  Remember that as the tank, you're only a small part of the group.  If you're dying way too fast and way too often, your healer(s) may also need to be asking themselves the same questions: How can I adjust my playstyle to successfully beat this content?  If your only healer is a defiler, then you're going to have some problems.  Defilers are great mind you.  My gaming companion was a defiler, and she betrayed to mystic when I betrayed to paladin.  But you may want to consider bringing in a druid to help overcome the serious burst damage that mobs do in TSO.  Shaman heals are slow, and while potent, don't do enough in time to keep you from getting squished during the usual barrage of damage at the onset of a fight.  This is especially true when you've got bosses that are hitting for well over 10k, and sometimes over 15k a pop.  Druids are fantastic for those barrages of damage, because their heals are so fast.  They can fill in the gaps, while your shaman does the heavy work.

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