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Old 12-18-2007, 11:43 PM   #1
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So as the title says, top 3 PVP classes are? And i mean in solo play...
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:56 PM   #2
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Its different in t2/t3, but essentially everywhere else the following tends to be true:

In no particular orderSwashBrigRanger

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Old 12-19-2007, 12:52 AM   #3
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There is no "top 3".. The class is only as good as the person playing it from behind the keyboard.
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Old 12-19-2007, 02:00 AM   #4
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If you learn how to fight against some of the stronger classes (easier to play), you'll find they're not that hard to beat. In fact, they're actually much easier to beat than someone who has mastered classes that are harder to play. The problem with EQII is the learning curve too high for some, and the amount of items and gear you can use gives a huge advantage over someone not using them.
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Old 12-19-2007, 02:11 AM   #5
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(( ive seen Troubs, Illusionists and even Templars who have played SO extremely well SOLO that they are a force to be reckoned with.Those are often considered underdog classes in the pvp-soloing department, But ive seen it.Illus. can be ESP. dangerous, watch out if they know what they are doing!!! serious!Mental resists be darned, ive had over 11k mental res. self buffed with crazy anti-illusionist gear, and they can still drop you in under 15 seconds. Sca-REY!
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:48 AM   #6
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Swashbuckler

Brigand

Ranger

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Old 12-19-2007, 12:42 PM   #7
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Swash/Brig

Fury/warden

Ranger/Assasin

 Ok so that's 6.  And honestly the player behind the keyboard matters just as much.  Unless your a summoner/necro, Any class can compete if geared right and played right. 

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Old 12-19-2007, 02:01 PM   #8
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Top 3 solo classes? Well, track might play a role there, but except for that, basically any class that has defensive capabilities. (Which excludes the summoners).And tbh, the class I've had the most fun with, which is the most importat to me for a "top pvp class" is the inquisitor. On the other hand, if you want the class that is the best at running, killing greens and other things, its a whole different 3 classes tbh. There really arent an overall Top 3, since they all have weaknesses and others have stuff they do insanely much better.
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Old 12-27-2007, 08:11 AM   #9
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1.The class you like

2.The class you want to play with the most

3.The class you take the time to learn an adapt to, and eventually the class you play will be a good pvp class in your own mind.

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Old 12-27-2007, 08:17 AM   #10
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1. Swashbuckler/Brigand2. Ranger/Assassin3. Warden
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Old 12-28-2007, 11:36 AM   #11
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1:bruiser/monk2:warden/inqui3:brig /swash (i think in the start of pvp server brig and swash are first but to much nerfed now....stealth useless and trak radius to short in ROK)
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Old 12-28-2007, 12:27 PM   #12
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[email protected] wrote:
There is no "top 3".. The class is only as good as the person playing it from behind the keyboard.

Stop making sense.  It doesn't fit in well with these forums.

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Old 12-28-2007, 05:20 PM   #13
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1)Brig/Swash 2)Bruiser/Monk 3) Assassin/Ranger.  At lower tiers, Warden/fury might creep into one of those spots.
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Old 12-28-2007, 05:23 PM   #14
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[email protected] wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
There is no "top 3".. The class is only as good as the person playing it from behind the keyboard.

Stop making sense.  It doesn't fit in well with these forums.

I find it kind of amusing in a wierd talking-to-the-wall kind of way. I mean, its not hard feeling smart when your verbal adversary is as dumb as a rock. SMILEY
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Old 12-28-2007, 05:33 PM   #15
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When you see a bunch of Coercers, bards and summoners come out to say the classes are all balanced and only skill matters, believe it. 
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Old 12-28-2007, 05:36 PM   #16
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[email protected] wrote:
When you see a bunch of Coercers, bards and summoners come out to say the classes are all balanced and only skill matters, believe it. 
Well, as far as summoner goes, I'll not say THEY are balanced, but I feel the rest of them are. SMILEY And in groups, summoners are just plain nasty either way.
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Old 12-28-2007, 06:05 PM   #17
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the fall of all mankind will come from something less stupid than the line of text made in the post above this one.Every class is nasty in a group. No class gets worse with others helping it. There are obviously classes far better than a summoner in a group. Chanters, a tank, a healer, a real source of fast dps, a tracker, and especially bards for buffs.Nobody ever puts together a 5 man group then says "Oh, ok now we almost have a good group but were lacking. Anyone know a summoner who will join we really need one."Obviously a [Removed for Content] playing a character and someone that isnt a [Removed for Content] playing a character will result in 1 doing better than the other. But stop calling it skill because a rogue/pred in purely mastercrafted using purely adept3 will destroy anyone else using MC/adept3 quality much more often than other classes regardless of who is behind it.Obviously this will be refuted by "oh so and so is skilled! Skill matters!"Ok, you can prove me wrong really easily. Just tell me how a skilled troubadour would best a skilled brigand.Just go ahead and list the CA's in order for his best chance.Cause here is how I see it. Brig has ranged knockdown so the troub isnt gonna kite him the brig can close the distance. So right away there goes the ranged fight. Once in close whoever gets the first stun will unload their rear stealth attacks. If its the troub he doesnt deal enough damage to win, nowhere near it. If its the brig the troub is dead.Either way even if the troub lands the first cheap shot the brig will survive the damage throughout and just return stun as soon as he can then win.But really go ahead and do this for any class! Dictate the fight to me and tell me how the brigand loses if he isnt played by an idiot that cant click 5 ca's in order. Please.If your gonna claim there is skill then give me an example of these other classes that are balanced and how they would fight a brigand and win.I'll be waiting
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Old 12-28-2007, 06:28 PM   #18
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While I *totally* agree with the poster who indicated skill plays the largest role in winning a 1 v 1 fight, I believe there are certain classes which start with an advantage.Brigs, swashies, bruisers, monks, rangers and wizards are *meant* to be good 1 v 1 in the PvE world.Lets use this forum as the measuring stick.  It may not be accurate, but frankly, its the only data I have access to study.  Here are the class sub-forums, sorted by number of messages: Ranger    50616       Monk    44615       Guardian    43938       Paladin    37585       Shadowknight    36226       Wizard    34053       Berserker    32966       Necromancer    32643       Templar    30726       Bruiser    27461       Warden    26637       Warlock    25802       Assassin    22793       Conjuror    22370       Swashbuckler    21669       Dirge    21156       Coercer    20941       Fury    20328       Brigand    19730       Illusionist    19466       Mystic    19394       Inquisitor    16129       Troubador    16099       Defiler    15334     These forums are largely influenced by PvE server players.  So lets assume this volume of messages is proportionate to the number of players of that class, on the PvE servers.  This illustrates my point.  In PvE peeps choose their class based on different factors than PvP.  That's why Swashbuckler is the 15th most popular class in PvE, but one of the most popular, if not the most popular, class choice in PvP.  That class was *designed* for 1 v 1 combat, as are the others I mentioned above.So, while skill and sensibility to master your class are paramount, some classes have a bit of a head start.
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Old 12-30-2007, 11:33 AM   #19
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[email protected] wrote:
While I *totally* agree with the poster who indicated skill plays the largest role in winning a 1 v 1 fight, I believe there are certain classes which start with an advantage.Brigs, swashies, bruisers, monks, rangers and wizards are *meant* to be good 1 v 1 in the PvE world.Lets use this forum as the measuring stick.  It may not be accurate, but frankly, its the only data I have access to study.  Here are the class sub-forums, sorted by number of messages: Ranger    50616       Monk    44615       Guardian    43938       Paladin    37585       Shadowknight    36226       Wizard    34053       Berserker    32966       Necromancer    32643       Templar    30726       Bruiser    27461       Warden    26637       Warlock    25802       Assassin    22793       Conjuror    22370       Swashbuckler    21669       Dirge    21156       Coercer    20941       Fury    20328       Brigand    19730       Illusionist    19466       Mystic    19394       Inquisitor    16129       Troubador    16099       Defiler    15334     These forums are largely influenced by PvE server players.  So lets assume this volume of messages is proportionate to the number of players of that class, on the PvE servers.  This illustrates my point.  In PvE peeps choose their class based on different factors than PvP.  That's why Swashbuckler is the 15th most popular class in PvE, but one of the most popular, if not the most popular, class choice in PvP.  That class was *designed* for 1 v 1 combat, as are the others I mentioned above.So, while skill and sensibility to master your class are paramount, some classes have a bit of a head start.
But that's a pretty flawed method of coming to your conclusion since everything past the message count by class is completely assumptive.Why not go by actual data?Going by most PvP kills you got the top 5 as, all 70+:WardenBrigandWardenRangerDirgeAnd yet, by all accounts, Warden/Fury is only OP in T2/3 and bards are terrible. Yet by the hard numbers, Warden is > brigand ranger or swash overall, and Dirge is better swash.That number not work out because it's just a time + grind and that dirge might have 300,000 deaths to go with the 80k kills?How bout top PvP kill streak sitting at a massive 1384 by... not a scout but a Shadow Knight. Wait a minute. SK didn't break the "top 3" forum rankings though! If we went by kill streak, you don't see a brigand until... rank 59th. There's even a necromancer above that brigand.That not good either? How about overall PvP kills v death ratio? I limited to required level 30 and above to get past the t2/t3 level locking qqing... and you have a bard and a warden above swashie and brigand. But that doesn't make sense. The forums say brigand is super overpowered. There's a 12 page thread about nerfing brigands. There's a 24 page thread about nerfing scouts.Well fine, let's be fair here, the call to nerf brigand is t7/t8 so lets limit it to that level range... and? You've still got a bard above brigand. So what gives?You mean the forum qqers are wrong?
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Old 12-30-2007, 12:20 PM   #20
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Just spit it out.. Are you saying a bard is just as powerful as a rogue?
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Old 12-30-2007, 12:58 PM   #21
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convict wrote:
Just spit it out.. Are you saying a bard is just as powerful as a rogue?
What i think he's trying to say is. Exceptional players > Exceptional classes. Or that all Classes are exceptional classes in the right hands.
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Old 12-30-2007, 03:28 PM   #22
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In pvp (and solo pvp included) only 3 things do matter: 1) opportunity to find your enemy, to determine the time and place of fight 2) opportunilty to kill your target fast or means of not letting it flee from combat 3) survivability scouts (excluding bards) are gods of #1 and #3 because of track, evac and (some scouts) 80% sprint, being very good in #2 as well. Obvious choice. Brawlers are decent as well because of being really hard to kill, having FD and nice burst damage.
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Old 12-30-2007, 05:39 PM   #23
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[email protected] wrote:
When you see a bunch of Coercers, bards and summoners come out to say the classes are all balanced and only skill matters, believe it. 
Hehe so true... I'd remove coercers from this list now though, until SOE fixes those pesky 1-shotting ROK pets SMILEY
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Old 12-30-2007, 06:05 PM   #24
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keLston wrote:
But that's a pretty flawed method of coming to your conclusion since everything past the message count by class is completely assumptive.Why not go by actual data?Going by most PvP kills you got the top 5 as, all 70+:WardenBrigandWardenRangerDirgeAnd yet, by all accounts, Warden/Fury is only OP in T2/3 and bards are terrible. Yet by the hard numbers, Warden is > brigand ranger or swash overall, and Dirge is better swash.That number not work out because it's just a time + grind and that dirge might have 300,000 deaths to go with the 80k kills?How bout top PvP kill streak sitting at a massive 1384 by... not a scout but a Shadow Knight. Wait a minute. SK didn't break the "top 3" forum rankings though! If we went by kill streak, you don't see a brigand until... rank 59th. There's even a necromancer above that brigand.That not good either? How about overall PvP kills v death ratio? I limited to required level 30 and above to get past the t2/t3 level locking qqing... and you have a bard and a warden above swashie and brigand. But that doesn't make sense. The forums say brigand is super overpowered. There's a 12 page thread about nerfing brigands. There's a 24 page thread about nerfing scouts.Well fine, let's be fair here, the call to nerf brigand is t7/t8 so lets limit it to that level range... and? You've still got a bard above brigand. So what gives?You mean the forum qqers are wrong?

While your data is atleast remotely relevant to the pvp (unlike the guy who listed forum posts), it is still unrelated to the topic at hand and does not prove what you seem to claim it does.

Whether it be total kills or kill streak or kvd, all can be attained by any class with enough friends.  People dont get annoyed and try to nerf people who have high kills, kill streaks, or kvd's.  They just think to themself, "wow that guy must have alot of friends to hide behind".

The reason classes get whined about and/or nerfed is because they figure out how to use their abilities to do something that was not intended.  Such as killing someone in under a second, or making it impossible to fight back, or murder a whole group without risk of dying.  This person doesnt neccesarily have to have a high kill streak or total kills, they just [Removed for Content] a lot of people off.  Before you argue, the reason we know these things are not intended is because soe nerfs classes that becomes able to do so.  Clearly they want new customers who come to the game to see a balanced pvp system.

If we look back to the topic at hand as presented by the op.... it does not ask about the importance of skill.  As many posters have pointed out a well skilled player of any class will beat someone who has know idea what theyre doing.  The point is when you take to people of equivalent skill (whether that be equally good/bad) what class is: more likely to win/easier to play/better

Based on this, the simple answer is : Swash, Brig, Ranger

There doesnt need to be any argument about this, its not saying that people that play those classes are unskilled or that people of other classes cant beat those classes.  Im not even saying that those classes are overpowered, or that they need to be nerfed. 

Its simply saying that if you take two people who are exactly identical in every way and give one a scout and the other one a different class and then set them lose in an open zone, the scout will win the majority of the time.

Why must every simple question end up mired in pages of senseless bickering?

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Old 12-30-2007, 06:50 PM   #25
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Lenova wrote:
valkyriepc wrote:
convict wrote:
Just spit it out.. Are you saying a bard is just as powerful as a rogue?
What i think he's trying to say is. Exceptional players > Exceptional classes. Or that all Classes are exceptional classes in the right hands.
Yes, since both Bill Clinton and GW Bush can be presidents, I guess everyone was born equal. /roll eyes
Which is, quite possibly, the most ridiculous argument one could make about game balance or anything involving balancing.Your statement implies that you expect SoE to balance a game around player skill. That's impossible. You being bad at the game has nothing to do with the classes or their perceived power levels.Taldier wrote:
While your data is atleast remotely relevant to the pvp (unlike the guy who listed forum posts), it is still unrelated to the topic at hand and does not prove what you seem to claim it does.

Whether it be total kills or kill streak or kvd, all can be attained by any class with enough friends.  People dont get annoyed and try to nerf people who have high kills, kill streaks, or kvd's.  They just think to themself, "wow that guy must have alot of friends to hide behind".

The reason classes get whined about and/or nerfed is because they figure out how to use their abilities to do something that was not intended.  Such as killing someone in under a second, or making it impossible to fight back, or murder a whole group without risk of dying.  This person doesnt neccesarily have to have a high kill streak or total kills, they just [Removed for Content] a lot of people off.  Before you argue, the reason we know these things are not intended is because soe nerfs classes that becomes able to do so.  Clearly they want new customers who come to the game to see a balanced pvp system.

If we look back to the topic at hand as presented by the op.... it does not ask about the importance of skill.  As many posters have pointed out a well skilled player of any class will beat someone who has know idea what theyre doing.  The point is when you take to people of equivalent skill (whether that be equally good/bad) what class is: more likely to win/easier to play/better

Based on this, the simple answer is : Swash, Brig, Ranger

There doesnt need to be any argument about this, its not saying that people that play those classes are unskilled or that people of other classes cant beat those classes.  Im not even saying that those classes are overpowered, or that they need to be nerfed. 

Its simply saying that if you take two people who are exactly identical in every way and give one a scout and the other one a different class and then set them lose in an open zone, the scout will win the majority of the time.

Why must every simple question end up mired in pages of senseless bickering?

I use the data I use because it is actual data and it easily eliminates the idea that "but lol you just did it with a group". If that were the case, you would have to also assume that the rest of the person's group has a reasonable KvD as well. If not, you'd be assuming that somehow, this guy would enter big fights with his group and then have his group vanish for the killing blows.For your conclusion on the power levels of the scout classes and whether or not their abilities are intended, the publicly visible data should easily reflect that. There should simply be an overwhelming number of scouts in the top ranks bar none and an exceptionally skilled player from time to time. The data instead presents a fairly decent spread of classes. Is it equal representation of every class? Of course not. That would require a perfect PvP system which cannot - and likely will not - occur in a game based around PvE.Why must it? Because you assume it's a simple question, and made assumptive conclusions. Yet, the data that is available for view shows a different conclusion. Perhaps if you made the right conclusion or perhaps the data backed up your conclusions of LOL SCOUTS ARE THE MOST OP, then no one would argue. But since the data paints a different picture, obviously, an argument will be made because otherwise, the vocal minority could result in the unnecessary nerfing of someone's class based on flawed and biased statements.
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Old 12-30-2007, 07:37 PM   #26
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keLston wrote:

I use the data I use because it is actual data and it easily eliminates the idea that "but lol you just did it with a group". If that were the case, you would have to also assume that the rest of the person's group has a reasonable KvD as well. If not, you'd be assuming that somehow, this guy would enter big fights with his group and then have his group vanish for the killing blows.

No they could simply run away when said group starts to loose.  The numbers would also be scewed if their groupmates soloed and they did not.  But you wouldnt want to think up rational ideas oh no!!!

Aside from that you will find a lot of people with relatively high pvp stats do indeed group together....

Dont try to make people sound ridiculous by putting words in their mouth, it proves your inability to debate intelligently. (haha he thinks they just all vanish, how funny....not)  For your conclusion on the power levels of the scout classes and whether or not their abilities are intended, the publicly visible data should easily reflect that.

Ok, now scroll up, read what I actually said rather then the idiotic drivel you apparently expected from glancing at it.

There should simply be an overwhelming number of scouts in the top ranks bar none and an exceptionally skilled player from time to time. The data instead presents a fairly decent spread of classes.

Once again you cite your "statistics" despite the fact that I have already stated why they are not relevant.  Can people gain high stats with any class....duh.... that does not make it relevant to the question. 

That would require a perfect PvP system which cannot - and likely will not - occur in a game based around PvE. 

Maybe it wont ever be perfect, but does that mean its pointless to try to improve the system? No.Why must it? Because you assume it's a simple question, and made assumptive conclusions. Yet, the data that is available for view shows a different conclusion.

Random fluff that restates your point ^^^

Perhaps if you made the right conclusion or perhaps the data backed up your conclusions of LOL SCOUTS ARE THE MOST OP

You get better at creating a strawman argument (401/400) Yay you managed to completly avoid what I said and instead rant and rave about something I didnt say at all!

then no one would argue. But since the data paints a different picture obviously

The data paints no picture at all, it is merely data, you may color it any way you want with your interpretation, however neither your interpretation nor mine is in any way proven by it.

an argument will be made because otherwise, the vocal minority could result in the unnecessary nerfing of someone's class based on flawed and biased statements.

no one here suggested on nerfing anyone at the current time.  Merely because a class is one of the better pvp classes does not mean it should be nerfed.  Only classes that become OP tend to get nerfed.  Read my post (I know it would be your first time reading it) to understand my definition of OP.

The original question is indeed quite simple.  I find it unlikely that soe will nerf you based on this thread, I find it unlikely that they will even read this thread.  Therefore there is no need for random paranoid outbursts like your above statements.

The best (NOT overpowerd, simply most likely to win in a contest between two players of equivalent skill) pvp classes are: Swash, Brig, Ranger

and everyone lived happily ever after.  The End.

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Old 12-31-2007, 05:01 AM   #27
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Taldier wrote:
The original question is indeed quite simple.  I find it unlikely that soe will nerf you based on this thread, I find it unlikely that they will even read this thread.  Therefore there is no need for random paranoid outbursts like your above statements.

The best (NOT overpowerd, simply most likely to win in a contest between two players of equivalent skill) pvp classes are: Swash, Brig, Ranger

and everyone lived happily ever after.  The End.

Feel free to provide data to back up your claims as opposed to personal opinion. I've given you my data, feel free to explain how it can be interpreted differently than I did. Until that point, you can Google up Nizkor's logical fallacy list and try to throw them out as an attempt to sound like you're making an intelligent argument when you're only trying to pass off opinion as fact. Since you looked it up, I believe you will know this as "Appeal to Popularity".
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Old 12-31-2007, 07:51 AM   #28
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Psych wrote:
the fall of all mankind will come from something less stupid than the line of text made in the post above this one.Every class is nasty in a group. No class gets worse with others helping it. There are obviously classes far better than a summoner in a group. Chanters, a tank, a healer, a real source of fast dps, a tracker, and especially bards for buffs.Nobody ever puts together a 5 man group then says "Oh, ok now we almost have a good group but were lacking. Anyone know a summoner who will join we really need one."Obviously a [Removed for Content] playing a character and someone that isnt a [Removed for Content] playing a character will result in 1 doing better than the other. But stop calling it skill because a rogue/pred in purely mastercrafted using purely adept3 will destroy anyone else using MC/adept3 quality much more often than other classes regardless of who is behind it.Obviously this will be refuted by "oh so and so is skilled! Skill matters!"
No no no, it is ALL player skill. It just happens that the most skilled players all choose rogues and predators. They're just better at this, and it's not their fault that those people who play summoners are all noobs, is it? After all, summoners have pets! Go read class skill lists, because all classes have their equal advantages and then you will see that everything is perfectly balanced. Also read Welcome to the Jungle one more time, because it is the EQ2 PvP's forum version of the bible. Oh, and.... IFL2P! SMILEY
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Old 12-31-2007, 07:53 AM   #29
wvorster

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seriously ....

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Old 01-01-2008, 04:40 PM   #30
Csky

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any class with stealth speed and tracking

how can they NOT be the best PVP class? they have tracking to find thier targets and pick and choose fights they can win..and have tracking to hide and avoid unwanted PVP

they also have the advantage of being able to level in safety because of tracking

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