EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

 

Go Back   EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire > EverQuest II > General EverQuest II Discussion > PVP Discussion
Members List Search Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-10-2007, 05:43 PM   #1
Darken_St

General
Darken_St's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 68
Default

Why repost this?Because I did not feel the need to put it in every relevant thread that different people are subscribed to.I lock for the reasons SOE intended me to. Content and AA. On my "locked twink" swashy I have a whopping 29 kills and 13 deaths, and a massive 26aa at lvl 25 *weak flex*. Yet  if you player'd my achievements, gear etc you'd assume otherwise. I am somewhere in between a locker and a normal player. I like to challenge those who attack me or attempt to gank me, and so I "twink" and "lock" but I do not go out and slaughter the enemy, more of a farm aa casually and pvp when I find it. I don't run hence my 13 deaths. But I generally win a fair fight. Why mention this? Because it is relevant to my stance. I am not one of the lvl 14 locked devils, nor am I a 24 locked demon I am just a player. so when I defend the right of the twinkers to have a playstyle I want people to understand where I am coming from.Long ago I was a crafter. Not just any crafter. The first 20,30,40, and 50 woodworker on Neriak. Eliona Felloak at your service, or she once was, now she is just Kamiki on Antonia Bayle. I had a playstyle. And life, she was good. I was a part of a tight knit community of crafters for back in those days a crafter without a network was a crafter without a craft. I enjoyed my playstyle. I played nearly every waking moment, to make that next wooden item, discover that next craft. I was the one on Neriak to discover pretty much every item from 20-50 in woodworker, Grobob (sp?) beat me on a few, because he came from no where in the later tiers. But I digress. I had a playstyle. I played Eq2 nearly every waking minute. I played Eq2 in the addicted fashion designers hope for, for 5 months, this woman lost a life and gained a game addiction. Whether or not that was healthy aside. I played. I enjoyed the game. Eliona was all I needed. I had an alt who barely made 22 adventurer, because. Eliona was all I needed.One day I saw a set of test notes that made my heart skip a beat, players new to the game it appeared were intimidated by the crafting system and felt isolated if crafting was their preference and left the game, so, everyone was to be able to make their own subcomps. It wounded my playstyle and began the snowball to its deathknell. The system implemented was chunky annoying and tedious. You had 40 bajillion skills, Needed 40 bajillion books and could not make beyond crude half the time. Crafters rose to the challenge, stood by their networks and maintained their playstyle. And life, though different, she was ok. Players new to the game already overwhelmed by the depth of the crafting system cried louder. Their laments flew to the dev's ears "We don't like this it's too hard." Many crafters said why then did you choose to craft? The new players were [Removed for Content], cried louder. So I see yet another set of test patch notes. Subcomponents are now gone. With it died a playstyle. Sure this style of play rose anew in its own form (players who multicrafted instead of hardcore single crafters) but the changes were enough to drive me to gamelessness, wandering from game to game for nearly 2 years. Now that playstyle yet again has been reduced, and soon may as well do away with the 4 bar craft system completely. Dumbing down, some might call it. Removing the playstyles of all but those seeking the easiest road.Like I "chose" to be a crafter long ago. I "chose" to join a pvp server and play casually this time. Same as the others "chose" to join a pvp server and all it entailed. That meant being exposed to those for whom it is a solely and encompassing playstyle in all their glory, much like new players had to be exposed to crafters with skill and understanding. And once more we have those, new to the game, crying about its difficulty, and once again we see the jepordization of an entire playstyle. And trust me a change like this can drive people from the game. No one, I mean no one, wants to have their playstyle choice removed. Leave the darn sand in the sandbox Sony if new players cannot handle it, they cannot handle it. Not every MMO, nor every MMOs systems works for all people. I don't play WoW because it is too simplified. Eq2 is slowly moving towards gross simplification, offering an ever easier road. And removing the playstyle of anyone who does not want an easy mode game. I want choices. I want my fellows to have choices. I may not choose the playstyle of the hardcore lockers, but I feel they too deserve some sand in their sandbox. T7 and 8 folk (been playing on an off since beta and yet still never had higher than a 39 adventurer) how would you feel if you saw the patch notes.Raids: All raid gear has been brought inline with legendary and fabled quest rewards and the amount of pieces dropped by bosses has been increased, the numerical values of raid gear were discouraging players from entering tiers 7 and 8 and thus harming the ability of the game to progress. Now all players should find themselves on more equal footing, and more options of equal gear obtainment methods exist.Yes thats an absolutely absurd note, why? Because you have become accustomed to raid gear being what it is in the game as it is. Online experience may change, true. But once it changes past a certain point you no longer have an interest. I would not want to see your playstyle nerfed raiders and questers in the high end. Neither do I want to see my fellow players who choose to lock at each tier for the various benefits and drawbacks of that tiers pvp to see theirs nerfed. Nor did I want to see mine nerfed oh so long ago. Now of course comes the question of how we alleviate the problem that new players are experiencing. Ideally, it would be as simple as a confirmation screen, "Are you sure you want to choose a pvp server, this means other players can and will kill you once you are pvp enabled, it may make your online experience more trying." But I doubt that would satisfy most. I have heard suggested that locking be moved up. A true "lock" not being allowed til 35 would do more than adequately. As I said, as a casual player I have yet to crack 40, I have played long enough to understand the core mechanics, but even a new player should have the game in hand by then. Of course this is still a nerf to a chosen playstyle, but like the changes to who could make what subs, its one I think is a fair compromise. Blood gear pvp would become the battleground of choice and lockers who really just want abundant pvp could enjoy themselves as well as new players feel they can get a grasp of things. If the change to combat xp goes live, make it a "soft lock" (xp for pvp, greatly reduce the amount so pvpers can get their gear) until 35 when "hard lock" takes over (no xp for pvp). Of course my suggestion means nothing in the gand scope of things, but at least maybe someone has read it and thinks hmm, not a shabby idea. Coding on something like that would not be too terrible either, a new parameter on the server rules text would do the trick <--I have modded and coded my fair share of games. So I am not programming illiterate. If indeed as the lockers say this is a ploy by t7-8 people to force people into their tier, all I can say is its a pity you feel so. I once felt my playstyle was superior to all others. I was queen wench of roleplay, reported every non rp name on my server and sent the person a nice politely rude tell saying so. Ignored all non rp channels, only rp'd in say, used our guilds ooc channel as my only ooc channel and did not rp in guild since I was not a telepath nor was able to translocate. I spoke vocally and often in the forums about how pvpers should just go to WoW, PvP did not belong here, and such. I was anti a playstyle even being considered for addition to the game. Then I grew up a bit and realized my way was not the only way (getting breast cancer will humble the crap out of you and fast). Instead of trying to pidgeon hole the game, removing bucket after bucket of sand from our sandbox, lets encourage positive methods for keeping the sand in the sandbox, and for allowing our fellow player to enjoy a playstyle that suits them.Removing things from the game is never positive, removing choices, never positive as well.To those whose playstyle is about to be impacted. I feel for you. I have been there. May the devs see the wisdom in compromise and allow you to hard lock in later tiers and reducing the cost of your pvp gear or the xp per kill either or. This way they can alleviate their problem and not completely remove your playstyle. And I hope, that should they do that, you will have the wisdom to not look in the gift horse's mouth.Thank you for taking a moment to read my diatribe ^_~Alexis Diana Dority*smiles*
__________________
Mikael Truepaw (Ratongan Swashy, former Monk)
Cailieg Everglynn (Arasai Warden)
and Ssinkarra Cleansingscale(Venekor's first Female Iksar Mystic)
Nathraxxis (Sarnak Brigand)
Darken_St is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 05:57 PM   #2
Krokous

Loremaster
Krokous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 239
Default

yawn, booring.  remove disabling xp please.
Krokous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 06:12 PM   #3
Darken_St

General
Darken_St's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 68
Default

If you are going to reply, attempt to do with some intelligence. What you posted only makes you look the fool. Are you 14? If not I feel for those you love and hold close, dealing with someone with so stunted a maturity level.You bring nothing to the conversation save "remove disabling xp please" which is what is already going to happen at least in regards to pvp. I am almost certain you did not read the post. Just as I am almost certain you are one of the people who lumps anyone who turns off xp as a "locker" and assumes to know what everyone does with their time. Be well sir.Alexis*smiles despite the trolls attempt to change that*On a side note- If the adventuring content is so compelling to YOU then do it, if getting to 80 is what YOU want, then do it. Me, I have not thought about how high I want to go, I have one adventurer about to ding 40 and one at 25 of my active characters, I'm pretty sure I want to get to at least 55 on my Warden, beyond that...meh. Not everyone even CARES to EVER see 80 and the raids. I grew tired of raiding in Eq1 and other titles.
__________________
Mikael Truepaw (Ratongan Swashy, former Monk)
Cailieg Everglynn (Arasai Warden)
and Ssinkarra Cleansingscale(Venekor's first Female Iksar Mystic)
Nathraxxis (Sarnak Brigand)
Darken_St is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 06:24 PM   #4
Josgar

Loremaster
Josgar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,606
Default

Darken_Star wrote:
If you are going to reply, attempt to do with some intelligence. What you posted only makes you look the fool. Are you 14? If not I feel for those you love and hold close, dealing with someone with so stunted a maturity level.You bring nothing to the conversation save "remove disabling xp please" which is what is already going to happen at least in regards to pvp. I am almost certain you did not read the post. Just as I am almost certain you are one of the people who lumps anyone who turns off xp as a "locker" and assumes to know what everyone does with their time. Be well sir.Alexis*smiles despite the trolls attempt to change that*On a side note- If the adventuring content is so compelling to YOU then do it, if getting to 80 is what YOU want, then do it. Me, I have not thought about how high I want to go, I have one adventurer about to ding 40 and one at 25 of my active characters, I'm pretty sure I want to get to at least 55 on my Warden, beyond that...meh. Not everyone even CARES to EVER see 80 and the raids. I grew tired of raiding in Eq1 and other titles.
Teens aren't ignorant >.>
Josgar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 06:27 PM   #5
Darken_St

General
Darken_St's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 68
Default

I did not say teens were ignorant my friend. I asked if he was circa 14 years of age. I meet more people in the 12-15 range on games who act erratically and irrationally than I do people 16-40. I am sorry if the blanket statement offended.Alexis*smiles*
__________________
Mikael Truepaw (Ratongan Swashy, former Monk)
Cailieg Everglynn (Arasai Warden)
and Ssinkarra Cleansingscale(Venekor's first Female Iksar Mystic)
Nathraxxis (Sarnak Brigand)
Darken_St is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 06:34 PM   #6
seahawk

General
seahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 340
Default

Well written post, and although I don't agree or disagree .. completely, it is nice to read a well thought position.

Personally, from how you described your characters and playstyle this update won't affect you much at all.  The experience gained after mid t3 is really negligible.

One point of contention though, the lockers like to lump the complaints about their playstyle in tier 2 on the tier 7/8 people.  Personally, I could care less if we had more people in tier 8.  When I go pvp'ing I have no problem finding groups to fight and the fights for the most part are pretty intense.  I love it.  I can't imagine pvp'ing in a different tier to be honest.  But that is my playstyle. 

I currently have 2 tier 8 toons, and one high tier 7 toon.  When I was leveling them up, it became obvious to me how bad tier 2 was and how many locked toons would camp quest turn in spots, repeadetly kill the same person over and over and over again, even though they gained nothing.  It was just bad.  Period.  I know people will comment that they never engage in such behavior, but it doesn't change the fact that it still happens.  When leveling my 3 toons, I raced to get into tier 3 just so I could take a breath.  I am not new to this game either, I feel I have a certain competence when playing this game.  But, it is my opinion that tier 2 needed some kind of fix and I think the upcoming change goes a long way in addressing it. 

It moves the "hard-core" lockers out of tier 2 while not drastically harming people like yourself with your playstyle. 

Anyways, best of luck and I honestly think this change is not near as bad as people are making it out to be.  Just unlock for one kill if you are t3 or higher and actually see how little your exp bar moves.  I think you will be surprised how little exp you get once you hit lvl 35ish.

__________________
seahawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 06:36 PM   #7
Gimet
Server: Vox

Loremaster
Gimet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 552
Default

Josgar wrote:
Darken_Star wrote:
If you are going to reply, attempt to do with some intelligence. What you posted only makes you look the fool. Are you 14? If not I feel for those you love and hold close, dealing with someone with so stunted a maturity level.You bring nothing to the conversation save "remove disabling xp please" which is what is already going to happen at least in regards to pvp. I am almost certain you did not read the post. Just as I am almost certain you are one of the people who lumps anyone who turns off xp as a "locker" and assumes to know what everyone does with their time. Be well sir.Alexis*smiles despite the trolls attempt to change that*On a side note- If the adventuring content is so compelling to YOU then do it, if getting to 80 is what YOU want, then do it. Me, I have not thought about how high I want to go, I have one adventurer about to ding 40 and one at 25 of my active characters, I'm pretty sure I want to get to at least 55 on my Warden, beyond that...meh. Not everyone even CARES to EVER see 80 and the raids. I grew tired of raiding in Eq1 and other titles.
Teens aren't ignorant >.>

Josgar, as MATURE teens, we have to be stuck with the generalized, angsty, moody, immature people among our ranks. I've had to deal with it forever. :O

As far as the OP goes, trust me, I understand. Gimet- Conjuror Level 36 with 42 AA, All Masters (with 2 or 3 Adept 3's), Great Gear, 27k RaG Faction, 1,162 kills, 361 deaths. I couldn't have done any of this without level locking. January 1st and Gimet will be one year old. He is my ultimate character. I recently stopped him from locking at 28 and I will say, between teir2 and teir4, a lot changes...and quality PvP gets better.

You said it yourself, this update is meant to punish the people who abuse locking, not for those who lock for content. I locked Gimet for content AND PvP. But at level 28, you can't really say I'm killing newbies. When I was a newbie, it tok be a very long time to get to level 28 because I was dieing to mobs, I was a Swashbuckler learning the hard-way how to attack as a scout, and quite frankly asking so many questions about quest areas. By the time I was level 25, I felt like a pro. If I felt like a pro at level 25, newbies should know the ropes. But they don't all of the time. SoE doesn't educate people about their classes, spell and CA levels, and armor. You can't expect people to read the forums either. By this deduction, I think the problem comes from teir 2 PvP...where only a few classes have matured form Fetuses to Babies. Go figure, no wonder it's easy to kill a newbie.

After I began leveling Gimet, I got scarce PvP and had a hard time catching up to everyone else in that teir. You won't beleive how good PvP is when you get groups going, and the terrain isn't as limiting as it is for the lower levels either. As much as I'd hate to miss out on locking with my newest char, Inuah, I would love for people to come up in level.

I have mixed feelings about this....but I'm leaning towards then next update to be a great one. I think more good will come out of it after all of th epeople who whine and complain get over their sorrow and get with the program.

Gimet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 06:36 PM   #8
Marcula

Loremaster
Marcula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 177
Default

Actually teens would be the ones who ARE ignorant as they have not had the chance to find out things and get life experience. Older people would be prone to stupidity.

Ignorant ~ Lacking knowledge

Stupid ~ Having knowledge of something and choosing to ignore it.

Marcula is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 07:20 PM   #9
Darken_St

General
Darken_St's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 68
Default

Willy you silly, this is Cailieg/Mikael ^_~To those who expressed that this will not impact my playstyle, that was to an extent to reason for the post.My hardcore playstyle was long ago taken from me, the point of the first part explaining my crafting woes from long ago. And thus I can relate to and feel greatly for those about to lose their chosen playstyle for similar reasons (newer players complaining and leaving the game). My suggestion was more to appease those who will have felt the impact rather than for myself.Thank you to those who replied, civilized, intelligent discussion is something I absolutely love about the EQ2 forums, it can and does occur here ^_^
__________________
Mikael Truepaw (Ratongan Swashy, former Monk)
Cailieg Everglynn (Arasai Warden)
and Ssinkarra Cleansingscale(Venekor's first Female Iksar Mystic)
Nathraxxis (Sarnak Brigand)
Darken_St is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 07:22 PM   #10
Darken_St

General
Darken_St's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 68
Default

Haha fixed how I post.^_~Alexis*smiles*
__________________
Mikael Truepaw (Ratongan Swashy, former Monk)
Cailieg Everglynn (Arasai Warden)
and Ssinkarra Cleansingscale(Venekor's first Female Iksar Mystic)
Nathraxxis (Sarnak Brigand)
Darken_St is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 08:03 PM   #11
seejester

Loremaster
seejester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 68
Default

[email protected] wrote:

Actually teens would be the ones who ARE ignorant as they have not had the chance to find out things and get life experience. Older people would be prone to stupidity.

Ignorant ~ Lacking knowledge

Stupid ~ Having knowledge of something and choosing to ignore it.

LOL, well said Willy.And to the OP, although my opinion does not coincide entirely with yours, it was nice to read a well-written post. Thank you for taking the time to write it.T2 mega-twinks slaughtering new folks, with no hope of them fighting back, gives a bad impression and will hurt this game in the long run. New players are a vital component to keeping our PvP servers alive and healthy, and as our player base grows, more care and attention will be given to us in this 'niche' corner of EQ2.I'm all for dog-eat-dog in PvP. but IMHO PvP should never be so unbalanced that a twink becomes a god. Certainly that 'god' should not ruin the game for people testing the waters, before they even have a chance to discover how much fun PvP in EQ2 is.I think SOE's solution to the problem that they themselves created is a poor one at best, but I'm firmly of the opinion that something has to be done about it.
seejester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 08:16 PM   #12
Darken_St

General
Darken_St's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 68
Default

Thank you seerjester. I wanted to express my hearfelt sympathy for those in this plight while also expressing I acknowledged that they had created a problem (SOE not the people who took advantage of a system, people will ALWAYS find a way to best use the system).My solution with hard lock versus soft lock would also be a less than ideal fix. But would be a fix, if they moved hard locking (no pvp xp) to 35, people would have a grasp of the game mechanics. And so no longer be "newbies being scared off".Sadly no fix is going to be ideal. This is a result of the way that pvp was implemented in Eq2. I will ride it out and hope the pvpers don't leave en masse, else who will try to gank me and fail?^_~Alexis*smiles*
__________________
Mikael Truepaw (Ratongan Swashy, former Monk)
Cailieg Everglynn (Arasai Warden)
and Ssinkarra Cleansingscale(Venekor's first Female Iksar Mystic)
Nathraxxis (Sarnak Brigand)
Darken_St is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 08:27 PM   #13
Greenion

Loremaster
Greenion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: behind you, stealthed.
Posts: 876
Default

Raids: All raid gear has been brought inline with legendary and fabled quest rewards and the amount of pieces dropped by bosses has been increased, the numerical values of raid gear were discouraging players from entering tiers 7 and 8 and thus harming the ability of the game to progress. Now all players should find themselves on more equal footing, and more options of equal gear obtainment methods exist.

sounds reasonable to me.

__________________
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket
Greenion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 08:35 PM   #14
Derrickr

General
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 94
Default

Well written post.

Like you, I liked some parts of the game better before they dumbed things down but I understand a need for change.

I think people forget sometimes that we're on a server with a thousand other people and there's no way to make everyone happy.  We have to compromise; for every change in the game you didn't like, there was a change you did like that somebody else hated.

People say things about SoE, some of it deserved, but it has to be a tough job trying to evolve a game knowing that no matter what you're going to tick a lot of people off.

Derrickr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:16 PM.

vBulletin skin by: CompleteGFX.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All threads and posts originally from the EQ2 and Station forums operated by Sony Online Entertainment. Their use is by express written permission.