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Old 05-31-2007, 09:39 AM   #1
Darkwatcher

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Greetings. I have one question for the gaming community here. If some red name will answer, that would be fantastic too. The question is pure and simple. Is it allowed to engage an enemy in PvP when your enemy is engaged in PvE? In other words, is it allowed to gank while your victim is fighting a mob? The answer seems to be obvious. Well, I thought so as well. Let me brief you a little bit on the subject. I play on Russian PvP server Harla Dar. Yes, I know, we have our own forums and I would gladly keep my writings to there, If only I could get an adequate answer. But alas, GMs there think that it is a bannable offence to attack other players while they are fighting mobs. That is why I would like to get a second opinion very much. I am one of guild masters of ”AD clan” – Russian guild based on Russian PvP server Harla Dar. We are an established guild with 3 year history, currently having two sections in two MMORPGs, one of which is in Everquest 2. We are proud to be one of the top raiding guilds on Harla Dar. We have more server first kills in EoF content than any other guild on our server which shows our dedication to the game. We like to raid and we like PvP that comes with being part of PvP server. But it seems that not everyone here, on Russian servers shares that view. Yesterday, four of our members were banned, including all three guild leaders. The reason being (translation follows): Members of your guild repeatedly violated rules of conduct in the game, regularly preventing other groups of players from killing raid boss (Rules of Conduct, part 2, paragraph 5). If this will repeate, more violent actions may follow, including full guild disband and account blocking of users violating such rules. As leaders, you must warn other guild members about infeasibility of such conduct in game. You are fully responsible for actions of your guild members, and in case of repeated violation of rules, you will be subject to the strictest sanctions, including permanent account ban. May I say, that two top raiding guilds on our server were fighting over The Direvine Matron for well over a month now. We killed and killed and killed each other countless number of times. Any time of the day you can think of - we PvP at the Matron. Answer is obvious - an artefact that the Matron drops upon its first kill. We even agreed to try and reach a compromise - unfortunately that did not work out, so we were back to square one. Seems normal, PvP on PvP server, right? Well, Game Masters thought otherwise. Furthermore, only members of our guild were banned (as one of admins on our forum explained - other guild had a nerve to report us for killing them, therefore only we were banned). Same member of administration later explained that it is not allowed to engage in PvP with raid that is already engaged in encounter with raid boss. It also seems that we, as guild members are responsible for all actions of our guild members. So what do you think here, on American and Euro servers?
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Old 05-31-2007, 09:52 AM   #2
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Darkwatcher wrote:
Greetings. I have one question for the gaming community here. If some red name will answer, that would be fantastic too. The question is pure and simple. Is it allowed to engage an enemy in PvP when your enemy is engaged in PvE? In other words, is it allowed to gank while your victim is fighting a mob? The answer seems to be obvious. Well, I thought so as well. Let me brief you a little bit on the subject. I play on Russian PvP server Harla Dar. Yes, I know, we have our own forums and I would gladly keep my writings to there, If only I could get an adequate answer. But alas, GMs there think that it is a bannable offence to attack other players while they are fighting mobs. That is why I would like to get a second opinion very much. I am one of guild masters of ”AD clan” – Russian guild based on Russian PvP server Harla Dar. We are an established guild with 3 year history, currently having two sections in two MMORPGs, one of which is in Everquest 2. We are proud to be one of the top raiding guilds on Harla Dar. We have more server first kills in EoF content than any other guild on our server which shows our dedication to the game. We like to raid and we like PvP that comes with being part of PvP server. But it seems that not everyone here, on Russian servers shares that view. Yesterday, four of our members were banned, including all three guild leaders. The reason being (translation follows): Members of your guild repeatedly violated rules of conduct in the game, regularly preventing other groups of players from killing raid boss (Rules of Conduct, part 2, paragraph 5). If this will repeate, more violent actions may follow, including full guild disband and account blocking of users violating such rules. As leaders, you must warn other guild members about infeasibility of such conduct in game. You are fully responsible for actions of your guild members, and in case of repeated violation of rules, you will be subject to the strictest sanctions, including permanent account ban. May I say, that two top raiding guilds on our server were fighting over The Direvine Matron for well over a month now. We killed and killed and killed each other countless number of times. Any time of the day you can think of - we PvP at the Matron. Answer is obvious - an artefact that the Matron drops upon its first kill. We even agreed to try and reach a compromise - unfortunately that did not work out, so we were back to square one. Seems normal, PvP on PvP server, right? Well, Game Masters thought otherwise. Furthermore, only members of our guild were banned (as one of admins on our forum explained - other guild had a nerve to report us for killing them, therefore only we were banned). Same member of administration later explained that it is not allowed to engage in PvP with raid that is already engaged in encounter with raid boss. It also seems that we, as guild members are responsible for all actions of our guild members. So what do you think here, on American and Euro servers?
What the hell? Killing eachother to prevent the kill of a contested mob is VERY much a part of the normal flow on pvp servers. Its just plain and simple stupid to ban people for PvPing on a PvP server, AND if it wre a bannable offense, pretty much all the top line pvp guilds on nagafen would be banned. SMILEY If they dont want people to attack a raid killing a contested raid mob, they could simply lock the encounter from pvp action. Those GMs need to be banned themselves.
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Old 05-31-2007, 09:57 AM   #3
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This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.   It cannot possibly be true. Banning people for fighting for a contested mob??   On a PvP server?!?! Any GM involved should be fired.  If the other guild gets the Matron before you because all your leaders are banned, my head will asplode.
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Old 05-31-2007, 10:45 AM   #4
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So are you saying that on Russian PVP server, if I get killed when I am fighting a mob, I can send petition and my killer will be banned for this?

This is so ridicuolus, this cannot be true SMILEY

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Old 05-31-2007, 10:47 AM   #5
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SOE has a KGB?

Soviet Secret Police for all you post Cold War era peepsSMILEY

Sounds like Harla Dar server should be deleted and players should get transfers( but NOT the GMs).

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Old 05-31-2007, 10:50 AM   #6
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[Removed for Content]? does soe even have a russian eq2 pvp server? SMILEY
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Old 05-31-2007, 10:59 AM   #7
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Darkwatcher the rules in your server may very well be true but here on our servers this happens often and all of us think its crazy for a story like yours to be true. first of all just how would they prove suck a thing second of all is that a pvp server?

Man if your telling the truth your server sucks so bad, your country may be different than our so the rules might be different too and this may be the case but i would reroll on a real pvp quick cause that the most retarted thing iv ever heard in my pvp life.

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Old 05-31-2007, 11:07 AM   #8
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Well, I know they have some rules in effect about quest/named mobs. Something to do with someone impeding your ability to enjoy the pve part of the game.

I remember back in the days before T6 it was one way you could /petition the botters. You could say that they were hampering your quest by locking down much needed mobs. Back before they took the loot tables out of most HQ mobs you'd be lucky to get a named you needed before the 5 auto followers and there tank came rolling thru to mow it down...

Blame every stupid rule in the game on plat farmers and those people who buy plat to keep them doing what they are doing. IMHO, most of the stupid nerfs in the game were implimented to keep them from sploiting something.....

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Old 05-31-2007, 11:09 AM   #9
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Russian server??? hmm...never heard of it. Pretty sure you not allowed to post about customer service type issues...this thread will prob be closed very soon...
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Old 05-31-2007, 11:13 AM   #10
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azekah wrote:
Russian server??? hmm...never heard of it. Pretty sure you not allowed to post about customer service type issues...this thread will prob be closed very soon...
hes not...   hes asking how things are on our servers and gave us an example as to why he asked SMILEY
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Old 05-31-2007, 11:14 AM   #11
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What a can of worms that opens up!  This would set a precedent that could result in the banning of 99% of US servers.  Of course, if it is established that your guild indeed waited every time until the enemy guild was engaged [Removed for Content] the mob before you attacked, this could narrowly be defined as an attempt to interfere with normal gameplay.  Does your GM also double as the regular PVE GM?  It certainly sounds as if an adjustment of mindset might be called for if this is the case.  My advice in the meantime is to make sure to loudly announce in channels and call for all available friends and allies to attack the enemy.  It would be very difficult to argue if a wide variety of players and guilds were involved to argue 'conspiracy'.

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Old 05-31-2007, 11:15 AM   #12
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[email protected] wrote:

 Does your GM also double as the regular PVE GM? 

Now i bet all my platz your on to something here!
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Old 05-31-2007, 11:20 AM   #13
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azekah wrote:
Russian server??? hmm...never heard of it. Pretty sure you not allowed to post about customer service type issues...this thread will prob be closed very soon...
If you go to http://everquest2.station.sony.com/ and look at the top left corner, you would find links to homepages of localased versions of EQ2. Link to the Russian servers is there. And I am not posting about an issue, this is not the point, I am merely giving background to my question, so it does not sound completely ridiculous, as people in this thread obviously thought. To all who answered - that is what I thought. I can understand disbelief. Absolutely ridiculous situation.
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Old 05-31-2007, 11:26 AM   #14
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Darkwatcher wrote:
azekah wrote:
Russian server??? hmm...never heard of it. Pretty sure you not allowed to post about customer service type issues...this thread will prob be closed very soon...
If you go to http://everquest2.station.sony.com/ and look at the top left corner, you would find links to homepages of localased versions of EQ2. Link to the Russian servers is there. And I am not posting about an issue, this is not the point, I am merely giving background to my question, so it does not sound completely ridiculous, as people in this thread obviously thought. To all who answered - that is what I thought. I can understand disbelief. Absolutely ridiculous situation.

If this is indeed a localized version of EQ2, doesn't that mean that the GM is running his own server, and can set his own rules for it?

As much as i think it's a completely stupid rule, if someone is somehow running their own localized version of the server, they can run it pretty much however they want.

Then again.. i have no idea how or why this would even be possible SMILEY

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Old 05-31-2007, 01:55 PM   #15
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You are not going to find one person from the US servers who would agree with those bannings. In America all is fair in love and war and PvP is war. If your toons get banned on Harl-dar come over to one of the US servers where you can wack people who are pulling mobs all day long.
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Old 05-31-2007, 02:24 PM   #16
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Wytie wrote:
[email protected] wrote:

 Does your GM also double as the regular PVE GM? 

Now i bet all my platz your on to something here!

I'm right there with you Wytie - I remember this issue coming up in EQ1 with a particular guild - which got disbanded and banned - griefing a number of other guilds on a PvE server.  GM's at that time began punishing people/guilds who were purposely attacking the same mob, pulling mobs into other raids and FDing etc. as punishable offences as the guild/individual in question were purposely ruining the game play of others by their actions.  Any of you who played on a Care Bear server in EQ1 will remember the race for the gods when their spawn timer was up with Planes of Power...I hated that.  On a PvE server I can understand this stance...but not so much on a PvP server where gank or die is the law of the jungle.  I think this GM is probably from a PvE server and hasn't adjusted his mind set to the chaos we've come to love in PvP. 

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Old 05-31-2007, 03:28 PM   #17
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Yes, russian servers are a bit strange.

For example, some guild leaders there think that they are not responsible for their guild members nor for their actions.

 Also, the OP forgot to mention that their guild was training mobs to the engaged raid, that they did not follow any injunction ordered by the GM, that they were replying to the GM in rude manner. And therefore got banned for these issues. GMs on the russian servers are following all CSR instructions, however they have to deal with many players that came from free shards and just cant behave like adults, cant follow "play nice" ruleset.

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Old 05-31-2007, 03:31 PM   #18
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*gasp* they were training mobs onto an enemy raid?!?!?  How... horrible!!!

lol.. play nice on a pvp server.. cracks me up.

being rude to a gm is kinda dumb though SMILEY

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Old 05-31-2007, 03:46 PM   #19
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ArinaTCR wrote:

Yes, russian servers are a bit strange.

For example, some guild leaders there think that they are not responsible for their guild members nor for their actions.

 Also, the OP forgot to mention that their guild was training mobs to the engaged raid, that they did not follow any injunction ordered by the GM, that they were replying to the GM in rude manner. And therefore got banned for these issues. GMs on the russian servers are following all CSR instructions, however they have to deal with many players that came from free shards and just cant behave like adults, cant follow "play nice" ruleset.

First of all, it is a lie that I or any guild member was rude to GM or did not follow his instructions. I have never ever seen or spoke to a GM. I have not received any warnings, I was just banned and received a letter that was translated in my original post. Secondly, mob training is a lie, be it wrong or not. Thirdly, to all who found the situation amusing, here is an update. It seems that russian localisation team has "forgotten" to translate PvP ruleset. And we were playing on PvP servers with PvE rules. They admitted to that mistake and they agreed to translate and implement PvP rules some time later. However, our members are still banned, although ban has been reduced to one week.
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Old 05-31-2007, 03:53 PM   #20
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Darkwatcher wrote:
ArinaTCR wrote:

Yes, russian servers are a bit strange.

For example, some guild leaders there think that they are not responsible for their guild members nor for their actions.

 Also, the OP forgot to mention that their guild was training mobs to the engaged raid, that they did not follow any injunction ordered by the GM, that they were replying to the GM in rude manner. And therefore got banned for these issues. GMs on the russian servers are following all CSR instructions, however they have to deal with many players that came from free shards and just cant behave like adults, cant follow "play nice" ruleset.

First of all, it is a lie that I or any guild member was rude to GM or did not follow his instructions. I have never ever seen or spoke to a GM. I have not received any warnings, I was just banned and received a letter that was translated in my original post. Secondly, mob training is a lie, be it wrong or not.

So, if I get you right, you want to say that CSR are lying and not you? SMILEY

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Old 05-31-2007, 03:58 PM   #21
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ArinaTCR wrote:
Darkwatcher wrote:
ArinaTCR wrote:

Yes, russian servers are a bit strange.

For example, some guild leaders there think that they are not responsible for their guild members nor for their actions.

 Also, the OP forgot to mention that their guild was training mobs to the engaged raid, that they did not follow any injunction ordered by the GM, that they were replying to the GM in rude manner. And therefore got banned for these issues. GMs on the russian servers are following all CSR instructions, however they have to deal with many players that came from free shards and just cant behave like adults, cant follow "play nice" ruleset.

First of all, it is a lie that I or any guild member was rude to GM or did not follow his instructions. I have never ever seen or spoke to a GM. I have not received any warnings, I was just banned and received a letter that was translated in my original post. Secondly, mob training is a lie, be it wrong or not.

So, if I get you right, you want to say that CSR are lying and not you? SMILEY

No, I am saying that you are lying. I was never approached by CSR or GM or any other member of administration and never spoke to one.
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Old 05-31-2007, 03:59 PM   #22
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Darkwatcher wrote:
It seems that russian localisation team has "forgotten" to translate PvP ruleset. And we were playing on PvP servers with PvE rules. They admitted to that mistake and they agreed to translate and implement PvP rules some time later. However, our members are still banned, although ban has been reduced to one week.
Now THAT is funny...
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Old 05-31-2007, 04:03 PM   #23
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Darkwatcher wrote:
ArinaTCR wrote:
Darkwatcher wrote:
ArinaTCR wrote:

Yes, russian servers are a bit strange.

For example, some guild leaders there think that they are not responsible for their guild members nor for their actions.

 Also, the OP forgot to mention that their guild was training mobs to the engaged raid, that they did not follow any injunction ordered by the GM, that they were replying to the GM in rude manner. And therefore got banned for these issues. GMs on the russian servers are following all CSR instructions, however they have to deal with many players that came from free shards and just cant behave like adults, cant follow "play nice" ruleset.

First of all, it is a lie that I or any guild member was rude to GM or did not follow his instructions. I have never ever seen or spoke to a GM. I have not received any warnings, I was just banned and received a letter that was translated in my original post. Secondly, mob training is a lie, be it wrong or not.

So, if I get you right, you want to say that CSR are lying and not you? SMILEY

No, I am saying that you are lying. I was never approached by CSR or GM or any other member of administration and never spoke to one.

Ah, I see.

One more thing - a lot of players on russian servers are blind and cant read posts that are made by CSR representative. (FYI I was reffering to the Alligator's post, feel free to re-read it.)

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Old 05-31-2007, 04:11 PM   #24
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ArinaTCR wrote:
Darkwatcher wrote:
ArinaTCR wrote:
Darkwatcher wrote:
ArinaTCR wrote:

Yes, russian servers are a bit strange.

For example, some guild leaders there think that they are not responsible for their guild members nor for their actions.

 Also, the OP forgot to mention that their guild was training mobs to the engaged raid, that they did not follow any injunction ordered by the GM, that they were replying to the GM in rude manner. And therefore got banned for these issues. GMs on the russian servers are following all CSR instructions, however they have to deal with many players that came from free shards and just cant behave like adults, cant follow "play nice" ruleset.

First of all, it is a lie that I or any guild member was rude to GM or did not follow his instructions. I have never ever seen or spoke to a GM. I have not received any warnings, I was just banned and received a letter that was translated in my original post. Secondly, mob training is a lie, be it wrong or not.

So, if I get you right, you want to say that CSR are lying and not you? SMILEY

No, I am saying that you are lying. I was never approached by CSR or GM or any other member of administration and never spoke to one.

Ah, I see.

One more thing - a lot of players on russian servers are blind and cant read posts that are made by CSR representative. (FYI I was reffering to the Alligator's post, feel free to re-read it.)

Yes, indeed, feel free to read it and find any reference to me or Zalhonan that were both banned without talking to GM. And feel free to find his answers to direct questions regarding the matter. Oh, sorry, he doesn't have to give one. Being member of a team that banned our members at the first place. P.S. Altis, as I understand, you are member of russian localisation team and employee of Akella Online - partner of SOE in Russia? If that is so, you are most certainly biased on the subject matter.
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Old 05-31-2007, 04:21 PM   #25
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Darkwatcher wrote:
Yes, indeed, feel free to read it and find any reference to me or Zalhonan that were both banned without talking to GM. And feel free to find his answers to direct questions regarding the matter. Oh, sorry, he doesn't have to give one. Being member of a team that banned our members at the first place.
AFAIK you got banned as one of guild leaders, that are responsible for your guild and your guild members actions. Does it surprise you? Oh, even more - first, you were warned (wait, does CSR lie here again?), and after ignoring all warnings you were banned. Thats what CSR replied on the forums. Now say that he is lying.
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Old 05-31-2007, 04:29 PM   #26
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ArinaTCR wrote:
Darkwatcher wrote:
Yes, indeed, feel free to read it and find any reference to me or Zalhonan that were both banned without talking to GM. And feel free to find his answers to direct questions regarding the matter. Oh, sorry, he doesn't have to give one. Being member of a team that banned our members at the first place.
AFAIK you got banned as one of guild leaders, that are responsible for your guild and your guild members actions. Does it surprise you? Oh, even more - first, you were warned (wait, does CSR lie here again?), and after ignoring all warnings you were banned. Thats what CSR replied on the forums. Now say that he is lying.
I have never spoke to GM, CSR or received any warnings. Saying otherwise is a lie as I said that there and I am saying it now. P.S. Please, can you stop this pointless flame? I just wanted to get an opinion of european and american players, not start flame war with representative of the company that admitted they allowed playing by PvE rules on PvP servers and banned people for thinking otherwise. Thank you.
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Old 05-31-2007, 04:50 PM   #27
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Sounds like disqualifying a heavyweight boxer for hitting somebody on the jaw during a bout. 
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:19 PM   #28
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Anyway... localization company's management just posted their point of view... And (drums) it's official now: according to the currently effective PVP ruleset, you cannot attack enemy raid if they are engaged with the contested epic mob atm.

EQ2 PVP Russian-style ftw SMILEY

HarlaDar: where whiners become winners SMILEY

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Old 05-31-2007, 05:43 PM   #29
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[email protected] wrote:
This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.   It cannot possibly be true. Banning people for fighting for a contested mob??   On a PvP server?!?! Any GM involved should be fired.  If the other guild gets the Matron before you because all your leaders are banned, my head will asplode.
How is your head? SMILEY 10 minutes ago the other guild killed The Matron and got an artefact =) Hail the PvE ruleset on russian PvP server.
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Old 06-01-2007, 12:03 PM   #30
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This is absolutely insane. But, I don't really understand the relationship between SOE, the PvP servers here, and the Russian PvP servers... The day I'm reprimanded because I'm told not to attack someone fighting a raid mob, or any other mob, is the day I cancel all my accounts. Complete.  Insanity.
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