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Old 04-24-2007, 10:45 AM   #1
Nej

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Just wacthed Starwars episode 1 (for like 30th time) and couldnt stop thinking about Jar Jar binks underworld.

i think it would be a cool idea to get a underwaterworld, we allrdy got tons of new items from EoF where some of em grant underwater breath.

And we allrdy got a Kingdom in the sky ,KoS, Caves, deserts and so on. We need a Waterworld SMILEY or at least a waterpark SMILEY

Let me know what ur thoughts, SMILEY

Rayson the 70 SK on Splitpaw

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Old 04-24-2007, 11:04 AM   #2
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Fallen Dynasty has a dungeon that is accessed through an area that is submerged.
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Old 04-24-2007, 11:07 AM   #3
Cusashorn

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Nej wrote:

Just wacthed Starwars episode 1 (for like 30th time) and couldnt stop thinking about Jar Jar binks underworld.

i think it would be a cool idea to get a underwaterworld, we allrdy got tons of new items from EoF where some of em grant underwater breath.

And we allrdy got a Kingdom in the sky ,KoS, Caves, deserts and so on. We need a Waterworld SMILEY or at least a waterpark SMILEY

Let me know what ur thoughts, SMILEY

Rayson the 70 SK on Splitpaw

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Two problems:

1. Z-Axis combat. nuff said.

2. Underwater visibility: Just because some races have aqua vision so that things aren't blurry underwater doesn't mean they can see any farther than the rest of the races.

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Old 04-24-2007, 11:29 AM   #4
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Although I am neither for nor against the idea...

1. Z-Axis combat. nuff said.

This is a non-issue. If you were fighting someone underwater *for real* ([Removed for Content] are you fighting underwaterfor in the first place?) you wouldn't fight on the Z-axis, espectially if it was hand-to-hand combat. pushing a trident up, even in water, is significantly harder than pushing one straight, and pushing one down is significantly less accurate. Even underwater gravity plays its part, so you would want to be on the same Z-axis as anything you fight.

Also, this is a level design issue that could be overcome by SoE without any real headaches.

2. Underwater visibility: Just because some races have aqua vision so that things aren't blurry underwater doesn't mean they can see any farther than the rest of the races.

Not exactly hard to add in to the game effects that increase underwater visability... I mean, if its going to be a theam for a whole adventure pack/expansion, they have the resources to devote to a simple effect like that.

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Old 04-24-2007, 01:12 PM   #5
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I can only speak for myself, but I absolutely HATE fighting underwater. I hated it camping Aqua Goblins in Lake Rathetear for my g/f's Cleric Epic. I hated it in Erud's Crossing for my Shaman epic's Trial of Patience. I hated it in Siren's Grotto. I hated it in Plane of Water. I hated it in Cove of Decay. I hated it for Chomper in Enchanted Lands. I hated it for Dreadwake in Everfrost.

Did I mention I hate fighting underwater?

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Old 04-24-2007, 01:29 PM   #6
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Noaani wrote:

Although I am neither for nor against the idea...

1. Z-Axis combat. nuff said.

This is a non-issue. If you were fighting someone underwater *for real* ([Removed for Content] are you fighting underwaterfor in the first place?) you wouldn't fight on the Z-axis, espectially if it was hand-to-hand combat. pushing a trident up, even in water, is significantly harder than pushing one straight, and pushing one down is significantly less accurate. Even underwater gravity plays its part, so you would want to be on the same Z-axis as anything you fight.

Also, this is a level design issue that could be overcome by SoE without any real headaches.

It is an issue. You can't move straight up or down underwater without moving forward or back in the process. if you can't see your target in combat, this could cost you the fight. Most underwater monsters dont come up to eye level for you to fight them. they'll fight below you where you can't see them or hit them without wasting time to move around.
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Old 04-24-2007, 01:32 PM   #7
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Cusashorn wrote:
Noaani wrote:

Although I am neither for nor against the idea...

1. Z-Axis combat. nuff said.

This is a non-issue. If you were fighting someone underwater *for real* ([Removed for Content] are you fighting underwaterfor in the first place?) you wouldn't fight on the Z-axis, espectially if it was hand-to-hand combat. pushing a trident up, even in water, is significantly harder than pushing one straight, and pushing one down is significantly less accurate. Even underwater gravity plays its part, so you would want to be on the same Z-axis as anything you fight.

Also, this is a level design issue that could be overcome by SoE without any real headaches.

It is an issue. You can't move straight up or down underwater without moving forward or back in the process. if you can't see your target in combat, this could cost you the fight. Most underwater monsters dont come up to eye level for you to fight them. they'll fight below you where you can't see them or hit them without wasting time to move around.

QFE!

Most maddening thing about underwater combat spam:

EQ1 Paraphrased - Your target is out of range

EQ2 Paraphrased - You cannot see your target

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Old 04-25-2007, 01:34 AM   #8
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An underwater area would be a great addition to the game.  As for vision, there is a  totem already in the game that has been there since the beginnning.  Fighting underwater is already possible.....don't know how many writs I did for the sharks in Everfrost and I did those underwater.  I know Kedge Keep has been mentioned a couple of times before but it is the perfect place for it.  Yes it may be a little more challanging but that is not a bad thing is it?   I am really glad to see this subject being brought up over and over because maybe it will show that despite the negative that is brought up about it there are still alot of players that would like to see at least one area of the game that is underwater.  I know that the devs have already said that they won't do an underwater area but I am hoping they become a little more open minded to the idea.  I was really impressed with the area in Fallen Dynasty even though it was a very brief experience.  Hopefully in the near future we will see more.
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Old 04-25-2007, 02:12 AM   #9
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Tashir79 wrote:
An underwater area would be a great addition to the game.  As for vision, there is a  totem already in the game that has been there since the beginnning. 
Like I said, just because some races get aqua vision (as well as there being items that supply it) and can see underwater clearly without any bluriness doesn't mean it's actually easier to see FARTHER underwater.
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Old 04-25-2007, 10:21 AM   #10
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Cusashorn wrote:
Tashir79 wrote:
An underwater area would be a great addition to the game.  As for vision, there is a  totem already in the game that has been there since the beginnning. 
Like I said, just because some races get aqua vision (as well as there being items that supply it) and can see underwater clearly without any bluriness doesn't mean it's actually easier to see FARTHER underwater.

Wouldn't that be kinda like trying to say, just before the announcement of DoF, that there is no point in adding climbing walls to the game, because our characters can't climb?

Sure, an underwater zone/adventure pack/expansion would require a few new game mechanics, but that is what expansions and adventure packs are for... right?

I mean, tell me what is stopping those smart people at SoE from spending 10 minutes to make it so our characters can look straight up and down underwater? or taking the 10 minutes to make an effect that gives players twice the visable range underwater? If they were to make an underwater anything, these are insignificant obsticles to overcome. I mean... really insignificant.

As to the commentabout targeting underwater in EQ1... this is not EQ1. Thats like saying every group in EQ2 NEEDS a cleric in it, because every group in EQ1 did, it just doesn't hold over in to this game.

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Old 04-25-2007, 11:19 AM   #11
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Noaani wrote:

As to the commentabout targeting underwater in EQ1... this is not EQ1. Thats like saying every group in EQ2 NEEDS a cleric in it, because every group in EQ1 did, it just doesn't hold over in to this game.

No kidding. It's just there to emphasize how much I hate underwater combat in any situation.
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Old 04-25-2007, 05:06 PM   #12
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For the one who said that you can't move vertically in water without moving forward or backward... ever try your home key? Home and End keys control Z-axis movement while swimming, enabling you to move vertically without moving in any other direction or changing your camera angle.
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Old 04-25-2007, 07:30 PM   #13
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Itsumo wrote:
For the one who said that you can't move vertically in water without moving forward or backward... ever try your home key? Home and End keys control Z-axis movement while swimming, enabling you to move vertically without moving in any other direction or changing your camera angle.
Yup, that seems to work and as far as water vision etc...., that is what totems are for.  Lets bring back Kedge Keep since I hated that zone so I can add it to the growing list of zones I hate in this game, but for some strange reason still go to.  Also include a T7 raid instance or make Phiney or whatever his name was a contested. 
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Old 04-26-2007, 02:34 PM   #14
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I seem to remember that the reason that SOE did not even consider Kledge Keep in EoF was that they were NOT going to to do any underwater dungeon. I will assume that no airless ones (like The Gray) will be done either.
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Old 04-26-2007, 02:49 PM   #15
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Igu wrote:
I seem to remember that the reason that SOE did not even consider Kledge Keep in EoF was that they were NOT going to to do any underwater dungeon. I will assume that no airless ones (like The Gray) will be done either.
That, and they only had enough room/data/whatever left to design one more zone, so they saved it for Unrest instead of Kedge.
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Old 04-26-2007, 04:31 PM   #16
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Just a note they actually tried this idea. In the splitpaw adv pack there is a zone that is 90% underwater, with lots of underwater combat. I didn't go in there until it was grey and I wanted to pick up a spell from one of the vendors and needed faction. Would have been more interesting if it was all agro, but it was also heroic iirc. Might want to check it out if you have not.
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