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Old 04-17-2005, 10:54 PM   #1
Ceruline

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I have some data for you on what seems to be a big bug with agi affecting avoidance.  Executive summary is that agi is affecting avoidance, but only miniscully, and is causing agi  heavy classes to get hit a LOT more than they were (Severely impacting solo capability for Scouts, and possibly avoidance tanks, though I am not familiar with their capabilities) I tested with a level 24 dirge.  All results are for a full set of medium armor (I used one player crafted set with stats on, and another NPC bought set to get the greatest stat discrepency while staying with medium armor) Data Points: 47 Agi (NPC armor on, no jewelry or weapons) 28.7% total avoidance      -15.2% Base      - 16.0% Parry 61 Agi 28.7% total avoidance      -15.2% Base      - 16.0% Parry 66 Agi 28.7% total avoidance      -15.2% Base      - 16.0% Parry 71 Agi 28.7% total avoidance      -15.2% Base      - 16.0% Parry 72 Agi 28.8% total avoidance (CHANGED BY .1%)        -15.2% Base        -16.0% Parry  (But the splits haven't  Rounding, presumable) 87 Agi 28.8% total avoidance         -15.2 % Base         -16.0% Parry 96 Agi 28.8% total avoidance         -15.2 % Base         -16.0% Parry 110 Agi 28.8% total avoidance         -15.2 % Base         -16.0% Parry So we see a total swing of .1% avoidance going from 47 Agi to 110 Agi.  Given that there IS a slight change in there, my guess would be that in some way the scaling for agi effect on avoidance was borked during the changes.  I can't believe that this is the intended effect, though.  The stated intention of the changes were for it to only minimally affect soloing ability - as it stands now, I take a TON more damage, and have a lot more downtime trying to solo - and that's just on blue and green individual encounter groups.  Specifically for bard classes, this is ruinous.  A lot of what we bring to the table are buffs and debuffs, and if stats have less effect, given what we lack in dps compared to our brethren, we're essentially useless to groups.  We were hardly an overpowered class before, and this bug/change is squarely targeting the thing that we get in trade for our lacking dps (Compared to other scouts)  As it stands, this patch destroys what bards bring to a group, and leaves us with very little other than dps, and dps which is subpar compared to other scouts.
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Old 04-18-2005, 05:17 AM   #2
Ceruline

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As an added note, pre-change my overall avoidance was roughly 58% - so I'm seeing myself take more or less twice the damage that I used to.
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Old 04-18-2005, 04:43 PM   #3
Corlin

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To chime in (bards do love instruments) on this -

40th Troubador.  Before patch, self buffs would get me to 69.9% avoidance.  Now I begin at a base AGI of 133 and can self buff it to 316 (thats right, adding nearly 200 with all 7 stacking buffs).  Avoidance goes from 29.1% up to 29.7%. Adds 0.6% for 183 additional AGI.

I am struggling to find useful songs for my group.  Stat buffs will still increase STA (so group HPs) and STR (group damage), but everyone notices that while a simple shield will greatly reduce the damage taken, I do not help in that department now, as I once did.  I am not completely useless, but selecting someone with higher DPS (mine seems about half other scouts) makes more sense, since killing quicker is the only way to reduce damage taken (and power used for healing, creating downtime).  Time to start a rogue or predator perhaps.

Solo play is definitely affected, but I covered that in the other thread.
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Old 04-20-2005, 02:10 AM   #4
Grimsore

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wow, 316 agility. Now I see what they where talking about with buffs and becoming invulnerable. Pre combat patch if I had 300 plus agility I’d of tanked twice as well and better than any of the plate classes I would group with.I might add that based on avoidance it makes no difference if i have my armor on or off. My avoidance number stays at 52 point something. On the other hand it makes a large difference in Mitigation.Fleeona 45 Bruiser

Message Edited by Grimsore on 04-19-2005 03:12 PM

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Old 04-20-2005, 03:21 AM   #5
Ceruline

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The difference here is that bruisers have significant avoidance which is not based on agility - and may not actually have much in the "base avoidance" category (The agi driven one) (I don't actually know whether they do - do they?)  Hence, a large gain in agility adds a LOT to their defensive capabilities. Scouts (And particularly Dirges and Troubs who rely on their buffs) are nearly entirely agi dependant for their defense.
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Old 04-20-2005, 03:41 AM   #6
Sebastien

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Do we know what factors determine base avoidance? AGI is one (a minor one it seems) The Defense skill is another, yes? Is there an archetype or class effect?  Perhaps we could try plotting some data points.
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Old 04-20-2005, 06:11 AM   #7
yaen

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when you get 300+ agility, does it look like there's a hard cap, or does it keep going up, just slow like usual?
 
it seems that something like this should just give diminishing returns instead of a hard cap or a straight (albeit extremely steep) ratio
curious as to exactly which method is being used (if it hasn't already been stated)
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