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Old 08-04-2005, 05:47 AM   #1
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As posted in the Official announcments... Is anyone relaly surprised? Was there anyone who didn't already believe that's exactly what was intended ? Keep it NDA until the very last moment when hopefully the players will be too distracted by the new game content to notice the travesty made of the combat system? Or  I could be wrong. It may not be a travesty afterwall, but it is sad that its taken this long to release changes promised for months. Granted this is well within normal Sony operations - supporting the player base isn't that profitable. According to the latest MMOG market share chart EQ 2 reigns in at a meager 3.1% compared to WoW's still lofty 22%. So the player base for EQ 2 has been shrinking not expanding, is there a point that this will ring some bells at the ol' home office? Or is there still this misconception that EQ is the only game out there and Sony may do as it pleases and not worry about its EQ 2 profits? Not to mention the very idea of releasing such a major patch to the essence of the game (its combat system) at the same time as a huge expansion pack is in the developmental view ludicrous. I'm also fairly certain its no coincidence that in order to see the combat canges yourself and determine if in fact you're still willing to play EQ 2 you have to shell out the cash for the expansion FIRST! How clever...
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Old 08-04-2005, 06:05 AM   #2
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LU13 and the combat changes, while being pushed on the same day as the expansion, are wholly independent of.
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Old 08-04-2005, 06:13 AM   #3
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Whats funny about this is that i was going to make a post yesterday saying how it was so obvious that the combat changes werent coming out until the expansion hits.  This is extremely predictable and absolutly ridiculous.  SOE has been promising changes for like 6 months.  This really is inexcusable and complete BS.  When its expansion hits its going to be like an entirely new game.

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Old 08-04-2005, 06:17 AM   #4
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"I'm also fairly certain its no coincidence that in order to see the combat canges yourself and determine if in fact you're still willing to play EQ 2 you have to shell out the cash for the expansion FIRST! How clever..."Where does it state that you need to buy the expansion to see the combat changes? I'm baffled as to where you got this idea from. The combat changes are going to affect the WHOLE GAME, not just the people who are buying the expansion.
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Old 08-04-2005, 06:37 AM   #5
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Deson wrote:
LU13 and the combat changes, while being pushed on the same day as the expansion, are wholly independent of.



Disagree with this.   They are not independant of each other.  There is no way they can release the expansion without the combat changes.  That is why the combant changes are in the DoF beta.  Though I could be wrong.   Wouldn't be the first time.

 

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Old 08-04-2005, 06:43 AM   #6
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The statement merely addressed that you don't have to buy the expansion to get the changes. Personally I would love the expansion being pushed back a month so  I can get a feel for the new combat rather than trying to relearn the game and exploring a new world at the same time but that hardly seems marketable and isnt really that big a deal since thats what I did when I first started.

Message Edited by Deson on 08-03-2005 05:45 PM

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Old 08-04-2005, 07:06 AM   #7
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Voshua wrote:
Is anyone relaly surprised? Was there anyone who didn't already believe that's exactly what was intended ? Keep it NDA until the very last moment when hopefully the players will be too distracted by the new game content to notice the travesty made of the combat system? 

...

I'm also fairly certain its no coincidence that in order to see the combat canges yourself and determine if in fact you're still willing to play EQ 2 you have to shell out the cash for the expansion FIRST! How clever...



The combat changes won't fall under the NDA anymore as soon as they go to the Test server, which will likely be this week. Every subscriber will have a nice chunk of time to experience them on Test and provide feedback. I'd imagine those who don't want to try it for themselves will still be able to glean plenty of information from threads that people who actually test the changes post.
 
As someone else in this thread pointed out, you won't need to buy the expansion for the combat changes. The combat revamp is part of the live game; the new content, level cap increase, and new features are parts of the expansion. I've already posted why we felt the Beta server should have the combat changes in place before they went to Test. It was merely a practical decision, not some secret scheme to trick people into buying the expansion.
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Old 08-04-2005, 07:11 AM   #8
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Thank you soooooooooo much MG! means at most we are only 3 days from learning the CU changes! For good or ill, im happy we will finaly know!

Thank you so much for giving us a heads up MG!:smileyvery-happy:

Toodles!

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Old 08-04-2005, 07:34 AM   #9
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Moorgard wrote:

The combat changes won't fall under the NDA anymore as soon as they go to the Test server, which will likely be this week. Every subscriber will have a nice chunk of time to experience them on Test and provide feedback. I'd imagine those who don't want to try it for themselves will still be able to glean plenty of information from threads that people who actually test the changes post.
 
As someone else in this thread pointed out, you won't need to buy the expansion for the combat changes. The combat revamp is part of the live game; the new content, level cap increase, and new features are parts of the expansion. I've already posted why we felt the Beta server should have the combat changes in place before they went to Test. It was merely a practical decision, not some secret scheme to trick people into buying the expansion.


Thanks.  As long as they're on test for a decent length of time then I'm ok with it even if I can only find out about it 2nd hand.  For me on a dialup connection it just takes way way way too long to update test even if I wanted to try and level a character.
 
Can you please consider making all voicepaks as optional for the sake of us dial up users? SMILEY
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Old 08-04-2005, 07:43 AM   #10
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Yeah, "combat changes will not be part of new expansion" we were told, "we can patch it anytime, it is not tied to live updates" they also told us. And once again both were blatant lies! I have waited over 4 months for that god damned patch that supposedly makes my main playable again and now they eat all their words again. I have always thought that SOE could not care less about their players, but this was lowest one ever. Way to go! Good sign of your non-existent customer support! 4 months with totally broken class which you refused to fix as "patch is coming soon"! Lies after lies...
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Old 08-04-2005, 07:51 AM   #11
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get over yourself man. they aren't part of the expansion. they are being released at the same time. they never said that they would not be part of a live update. they said specifically that they wouldn't be tied to any specific live update, but be held until they were completed. it's obvious that they are now almost completed and will be on test for a month (assuming they release this week like they said) for testing and tweaking before they push it to live servers. at the same time they'll push they are pushing some other changes, and calling the package LU13..
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Old 08-04-2005, 07:56 AM   #12
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Felixetc, You're under the (mistaken) assumption that this means the combat changes are being pushed BACK. It's quite possible this would push them FORWARD as now they must be ready for the September 12th deadline. It's still not a good thing, but I'll wait to see how things look on test. It's possible that the new system will be mostly right on the first pass. It's possible (if unlikely). Of course, since you clearly would prefer to patch now, fix later, you should be overjoyed that the changes have a deadline instead of being released after being thoroughly tested. I'll be glad to see what's new once this goes onto test and reserve final judgement until then. But really, this is part of EVERY MMO. If things are postponed, people will complain. If things are push lived with bugs, people will complain. The only way to avoid this is to get it perfect every time. That won't happen because this is reality. And yes, I'm desperately awaiting the combat changes in the hopes that they will restore my viability as a healer as well.
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Old 08-04-2005, 08:06 AM   #13
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FelixDomesticus wrote:
Yeah, "combat changes will not be part of new expansion" we were told, "we can patch it anytime, it is not tied to live updates" they also told us. And once again both were blatant lies! I have waited over 4 months for that god damned patch that supposedly makes my main playable again and now they eat all their words again.

I have always thought that SOE could not care less about their players, but this was lowest one ever. Way to go! Good sign of your non-existent customer support! 4 months with totally broken class which you refused to fix as "patch is coming soon"! Lies after lies...



I know this isn't what the thread is about, but I am curious what class you play, you couldn't be a templar, everyone loves having templars heal. Couldn't be a warden or fury, their big problem is agro not lack of healing. Couldn't be a mystic because despite the fact that wards aren't presently doing what they should, I 've never had a situation where I was completely unable to do anything yet and I'm nearly 45. (never done anyhigh end raiding though)
 
Defiler or inquisitor perhaps?
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Old 08-04-2005, 08:24 AM   #14
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Dunno, 4 months of waiting for everything to be looked at, checked, considered, checking NPC abilites vs players, Players vs NPC, resists, damage dealt by both, mitigation... etc etc  seems kinda reasonable to me.  Its not like you can just patch and go in a months time over something as complicated as Combat.  Combat is what this game is about, practically.  Alot of things needed to be fixed or improved upon, same time, gotta consider what the NPCs could do to you, and make a fair trade-off.  So erm, that being said... take a valuim and wait 1 month and 1 week ... hells you waited 4 months, how hard is 1 more month?  Or better yet, go help them on test server and give them feedback... I dunno... so many choices to choose from.
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Old 08-04-2005, 08:49 AM   #15
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They have to allow a month for all the Enchanters that are gonna flip out and start riots on the message boards. Just wait and see :smileyvery-happy:
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Old 08-04-2005, 08:52 AM   #16
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You know,  revisting this thread made me appreciate the humor of the combat changes going live with the expansion and LU13! Talk about tempting fate. Considering no LU in  memory (my memory at least) has gone as well as planned I don't think I'm logging in for a week after to be sure heh.
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Old 08-04-2005, 08:55 AM   #17
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Moorgard wrote:
The combat changes won't fall under the NDA anymore as soon as they go to the Test server, which will likely be this week. Every subscriber will have a nice chunk of time to experience them on Test and provide feedback. I'd imagine those who don't want to try it for themselves will still be able to glean plenty of information from threads that people who actually test the changes post.
 
As someone else in this thread pointed out, you won't need to buy the expansion for the combat changes. The combat revamp is part of the live game; the new content, level cap increase, and new features are parts of the expansion. I've already posted why we felt the Beta server should have the combat changes in place before they went to Test. It was merely a practical decision, not some secret scheme to trick people into buying the expansion.

Question :    Once the Combat changes hit the test server, will those people that were previously under NDA on the beta server be allowed to discuss the changes that they see as level 50s?  I feel this is quite important since there is no one in that level range currently on the test server ( correct me if I am wrong ).
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Old 08-04-2005, 09:00 AM   #18
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MorDecaio wrote:


Moorgard wrote:


The combat changes won't fall under the NDA anymore as soon as they go to the Test server, which will likely be this week. Every subscriber will have a nice chunk of time to experience them on Test and provide feedback. I'd imagine those who don't want to try it for themselves will still be able to glean plenty of information from threads that people who actually test the changes post.
 
As someone else in this thread pointed out, you won't need to buy the expansion for the combat changes. The combat revamp is part of the live game; the new content, level cap increase, and new features are parts of the expansion. I've already posted why we felt the Beta server should have the combat changes in place before they went to Test. It was merely a practical decision, not some secret scheme to trick people into buying the expansion.



Question :
   Once the Combat changes hit the test server, will those people that were previously under NDA on the beta server be allowed to discuss the changes that they see as level 50s?  I feel this is quite important since there is no one in that level range currently on the test server ( correct me if I am wrong ).





They won't be able to talk about any DOF info but yes, they can talk about the combat changes.
 
ANd what gave you the idea that test has no level 50s or raiders? Test is a normal server with just a really small population.
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Old 08-04-2005, 09:01 AM   #19
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Hrm, rabid Chanters, unlucky 13, total revamp..... yeah, think I will just craft for a while :smileywink:
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Old 08-04-2005, 09:33 AM   #20
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Now we finally know that when SOE says they won't fix a classbreaking bug because they will do a major patch fixing it all "soon", it will take 6 months till we can continue to play. Customer service at its best.
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Old 08-04-2005, 10:05 AM   #21
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Sounds like a load of crap to me.
 
I mean, with the amount of times its been pushed back (starting from LU6) you're starting to sound like blizzard entertainment with Diablo2.
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Old 08-04-2005, 10:25 AM   #22
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This is totaly insane. I can see the fourm titles now "Black Monday".  *wonders how long the servers will be down starting the 12th* 67 hours my guess:smileysad:
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Old 08-04-2005, 12:07 PM   #23
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Let's see expansion and total combat revision hitting on the same day. This is going to  be fun. If past performance provides any inkling of how this will go, I'd say chances of anything approaching a smooth launch are very slim if not non-existent. Going to be wild times on the forum that day.
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Old 08-04-2005, 01:00 PM   #24
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Combat changes aka we are nerfing certain classes to hell and back because we think they are too powerful so they are equal too those classes people think as useless crap atm...

And having a major update and an expansion going live on the same day......note to self...expect not being able to play for a few days because most likely and as usual SoE will [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]up bigtime!

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Old 08-04-2005, 01:22 PM   #25
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Caldabuse wrote:
Felixetc,

You're under the (mistaken) assumption that this means the combat changes are being pushed BACK. It's quite possible this would push them FORWARD as now they must be ready for the September 12th deadline. It's still not a good thing, but I'll wait to see how things look on test. It's possible that the new system will be mostly right on the first pass. It's possible (if unlikely). Of course, since you clearly would prefer to patch now, fix later, you should be overjoyed that the changes have a deadline instead of being released after being thoroughly tested.

I'll be glad to see what's new once this goes onto test and reserve final judgement until then. But really, this is part of EVERY MMO. If things are postponed, people will complain. If things are push lived with bugs, people will complain. The only way to avoid this is to get it perfect every time. That won't happen because this is reality.

And yes, I'm desperately awaiting the combat changes in the hopes that they will restore my viability as a healer as well.



Actually he isn't referring to combat changes being pushed back. Instead he is refering to the priest changes to address problems with some of the subclasses. They were supposed to be part of LU 6. SOE changed their mind saying they were doing the combat changes and that it didn't make sense to make changes now when more changes might be needed in a little while later. This is where all the problems started and why I think a lot of people are annoyed the combat changes have taken so long. The impression was given that they weren't that far away when announced and yet it is 4 or so months later and they haven't been made.
 
Therefore I can understand his frustation being told they are going to fix your class. Then saying this is going to be delayed and yet giving the impression it won't be delayed that long and yet waiting 4 months he has a right to be frustated. The way things have turned out I think SOE was definately wrong not to have made the priest changes when they said they would. Of course that is now seeing how long things have taken to get done.
 
The other problem I see is that they have consistently said the Combat Changes won't go live till ready. Hopefully this will still be true but now though they have basically said that no matter whether they are ready or not they have to go live on the 12th with the expansion. Since they have said the changes have to be part of the expansion.

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Old 08-04-2005, 03:06 PM   #26
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You can argue if they lied to us about the combat/healing patch. You can argue when they said they were coming. You can argue if its right or wrong. But.....you can NOT argue that the servers are going to go down, after down, after down when this expansion/combat changes/live update goes live.

Each live update has been bug ridden. This is going to be a joke. and you know what we the players will get? A free day of double exp and a promise(lie) that it wont happen again.

Either accept that. Or quit and stop giving SOE your money. What will I do? I will do what i always do. Accept the fact that these games are not easy to program or cheap to run, or that the devs have time to fix it before the "big fat man" tells them to release it.

The expansion/liveupdate/combat revamp IS going to be a mess. But i will still play, cos i kno its a game, i know its the best 15bucks i can spend(right now) for the amount of entertainment i can get.

Get over yourself, or stop paying SMILEY

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Old 08-04-2005, 04:59 PM   #27
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Look, guys and girls, what can you expect from the company that does this (they are all part of Sony is my guess):

 

http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/news/ap/20050803/112309392000.html

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Old 08-04-2005, 05:24 PM   #28
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Combat changes and expansion coming on the same day!?!?!

Color me surprised.  (is there a rollseyes smiley?)

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Old 08-04-2005, 05:41 PM   #29
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Sutexi wrote:

Get over yourself, or stop paying SMILEY


About 50k subscribers already have decided to stop paying. Lots of others have decided to not start paying: EQ2 has 200k, WoW 2,000k - 10 times as much. If the launch with this totally ridiculous setup goes as everyone expects, 3 days of downtime followed by 3 months of unfixed gamebreaking bugs, the next wave of cancellations will hit SOE. And even if I would ride it out and stay (not decided yet), its growing unfun to play on empty servers. And, if the subscriptions drop another 50k, there will be less money, meaning less development of the game - not to mention even slower bugfixes. This decision is ridiculous at best. It is really sad to see a game with that great potential being ruined by incompetence at every level from SOE.
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Old 08-04-2005, 06:01 PM   #30
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It is very noticable the lower populations.  It could simply be from summer so we will know more once school starts up for people.

I was trying out an Ogre Fighter (Bruiser) last night and was in Thieve's way at 9:30pm EST and I was the only person in TW fighting.

 

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