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Old 04-14-2005, 05:35 PM   #1
Despa

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I really am concerned about this.....
 
- First off..inquisitors already get blessed with being able to wear plate armor.  The rest of us get shafted and have to wear light armor. And now our ability to avoid the hits coming at us is going to be lost as well?
 
-Why can't the new plate mail theory (plate mail people get hit more often while very light armorer's can avoid more often) apply to everyone?  Why single out the Priest? Seems like this is going to go far from the "priest class balancing" that we have all been expecting since Inquisitors have the plate armor.
 
 
Also....I don't agree with the idea of "caps".  The game is supposed to be a real place...something you can get completely emmersed in.....close to reality......heh...in my lifetime...I have never had some overhead rule say I couldn't get stronger or better in some way...doesn't make sense.
 
 
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Old 04-14-2005, 10:20 PM   #2
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In any weapon based martial art you learn how to use a weapon both to attack and defend. Why would you remove the ability to defend with a weapon from one particular class? This really does not make sense. I agree that a figther would be better at parrying than a priest or a mage but that should not mean that the other classes do not know how to do it.
 
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Old 04-14-2005, 10:47 PM   #3
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Hmm, why are you singling out Inquisitors? Templars also wear heavy armor.

Second, Templars and Inquisitors get the least amount of hitpoints, It is what they give up for ability to wear heavy armor. Shamans get medium hitpoints, and druids get the most.

Lastly, Inquisitors and Templars are also priests, and lose pary as well.

So what exactly is this complaint about?

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Old 04-14-2005, 11:15 PM   #4
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All the priest archtypes got screwed.  No other way to put it.  Wardens like me can still avoid (since we wear the lighter armor) but will die in one hit since we have no mitigation.  Templar/Inquis have the mitigation, but are going to get pounded since they now have no avoidance.  Plus none of us has a counter attack (parry) now.  And of course, we still agro like crazy.

I'm less sure if the changes will screw us more during soloing or grouping, but either way it hurts.

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Old 04-14-2005, 11:31 PM   #5
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IMO your asking for the wrong benifit here.  Priests are really not melee combatants (the Pally is your varriant of that honestly) .. and parry really is not appropriate.  HOWEVER, access to Kite shields would be an appropriate benifit you should be receiving and achives what I think your asking for.
 
ADDED:  Honestly this is not just a Cleric issue, but personally Clerics = Kites, Shammy (all chain) = Round, Druids = Bucklers.  Like fighters, the dodge skill should be Druids > Shammy > Clerics .. this would give the cross class balances in that area.
 

Message Edited by Tamian on 04-14-2005 12:33 PM

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Old 04-14-2005, 11:58 PM   #6
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I agree with the fact that priest classes are getting the screws put to them,  but don't forget these parry changes are affecting mage type also.  Having even less hit points and very light armor most mobs just exhale on them and they go down. 

I have a Coercer lvl 47

Bruiser lvl 24

Warden 21

and a Templar lvl 20

I get little chance these days to play with my bruiser as  there are no healers that range in my guild, so I am working a healer up to help those still in that level range.  Any and every class SHOULD be able to parry and what they wear  should be what determines how often it is successful.   Agility, freedom of movement, speed, should factor into the equasion on if a player see's and can counteract an attact to parry it effectively.  Heavy plate I see as a deterant , chain/medium a little more easy to move in, both have mitigation and their armor can take more of the pounding where say Leather is flexible, easy to menouver in but can not take the pounding,  same for cloth wearers.  I have no idea where this "mages can not parry"  comes from.  Priests can often have a choice of heavy or medium from my understanding and should still be able to parry,  but depending on armor choice depends on how it hampers their movement and if the parry is successful but out and out removing parry from Mages and priest? 

I die ALOT as a mage, for some reason I do not even have to cast a spell when the pull begins,  but stand there gritting my teath waiting for them to charge passed the tank to slap me around before the tank gets them back under controle. I SHOULD be able to try to defend myself, dodge parry, avoid some of those attacts just because I have freedom of movement  to do so cause when those attacts do land, which IS often, hell they hurt.

/waits for rezz

 Come on, what have you all been smoking?  Can I get some?  Maybe some of these changes will look good after you all share .....

There are a number of things I see wrong in this batch or patch.  Invis another,  why cant I go up to an npc in the middle of a pack of nasties  while invisable and whisper in his ear so as not to get the attention of all those angry mobs around him?  So long as he isn't waiting to pound on me if he can see me,  I see nothing wrong there. Many a time all that was needed was to get or end a quest with a hail and I would send a group member off safely checking for the occassional see invis mob  to hail the poor fellow surrounded by them.

Aye many little things that at this point  of the day that make the future of adventuring Norrath seem a bit  ...  unpleasant when so many OTHER FIXES are needed to content  like quest npc's that  CANT NOT BE TARGETED to hail at all and messd up spawns or mobs in walls and spells that are broken (thank you for finally putting the fix in on coercer charmed  pets, still wish it could last longer than it does, but now not breaking the event is VERY GOOD and will make many happy) 

Ok  done before I find another tangeant off the subject to go into  ....  just take another moment to think through some of the changes before they go to  live servers  ....

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Old 04-15-2005, 12:02 AM   #7
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Tanyla,
 
Parry is a weapon skill, not 'dodge' like you are trying to classify it.  Heavier Armor classes, under new system (and appropriately) will have a 'negative' to avoidance (in theory) applied to them forcing more mitigation required vs the ability to avoid the incomming damage.
 
Mages should not have been given the ablity to parry in the first place .. sorry. 
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Old 04-15-2005, 02:20 AM   #8
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You know sometimes I imagine all the SoE folks get together and go - "this is a great game, how can we possibly screw it up this week?" , "wait, I know - we'll undo everything positive we've done the last two months by making priests and mages paper dolls."

Whatever your intention with high end avoidance you're screwing over Priests and Mages like theres no tomorrow. 

I play a T4 Warden and Wizard and this patch will end my ability to duo with them and end any chance of grouping without a plate tank. 

WORSE they've both been demoted in groups now:

1) Wizards already so-so desirability as DPS in groups will be eviscerated by this patch as any aggro will = insta-dead wizard.  So why would you take a wizard over a scout or melee for DPS - you wouldnt, ever, unless there was no choice.  Wizards wont be able to apply any DPS until the fight is already decided.  This also removes soloing as an option for wizards - which right now is in really good balance.

2) Warden and Fury limited desirability as healers will also be destroyed.  They aggro more and will die about like wizards now.  Paper mitigation and no parry and the highest aggro heals - wonderful.

This changes are the dumbest idea since the non-linked banking system with the error-prone couriers to transport your money - probably the same pencil-pusher dreamed this one up.  Drop this whole patch and figure out another way to solve the high level problem without screwing over everyone else in the game.

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Old 04-15-2005, 02:30 AM   #9
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What really bothers me about this is that it might be the beginning of the same long pattern that eventually made Clerics in EQ1 a "one trick pony" at high levels, suitable only for raids.
 
We are losing some defense, but what is going to make up for it? Are we getting better weapons, better nukes, better stun avoidance, or what?
 
The actual damage mitigation we get by having Parry is probably minimal - perhaps 5% at best. But it was these small percent nerfs in EQ1 that over a couple of years added up to a character that could barely solo low green mobs, and was totally dependent on groups and raids for xp or loot.
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Old 04-15-2005, 07:26 AM   #10
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Laiina wrote:
The actual damage mitigation we get by having Parry is probably minimal - perhaps 5% at best. But it was these small percent nerfs in EQ1 that over a couple of years added up to a character that could barely solo low green mobs, and was totally dependent on groups and raids for xp or loot.

Parry supposedly accounts for just under half of my avoidance as a Mystic, if the avoidance breakdown is anything to go by.  I presume it is similar for other priest classes.  I'm concerned about spell interrupts with such a large hit to avoidance.
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Old 04-15-2005, 10:42 AM   #11
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We're not some chubby soft Friar Tucks that cram into our heavy armor, praying not to get hit because we can barely move.

We're INQUISTORS - iron willed with fanatical devotion to the cause of our God.

Our bodies are coiled tools that have run 100s of miles and fought countless battles.

We wear supple plate, the best available, so that we move more easily as we gain experience and strength.

Battle Priests from hell, not turtles unable to dodge a blow or parry a strike with our weapons.

 

The ability of the healing classes to "tank" makes playing a healer fun - solo and group. Scouts have their DPS and the scouts I've known have done fine without being overpowered. When I've duo'd with a scout, I cast a group debuff and then start healing myself while I get pounded and the scout rips the spine out of the mob from behind. It works well and I've never read or heard a scout complain about it - we're in heavy, usually magical, armor with other divine buffs and magic rings etc to protect us.

The makes the healing classes less fun:

Less fun = fewer healers.

Fewer healers = fewer groups

Fewer groups = WoW

I tried WoW for two weeks and stopped because it feels like a console game with okay graphics.

We play to be powers to be reckoned with - raining destruction upon our enemies with blows and magic, ripping them to shreads.

The idea that we should all fit into defined "roles" is EQ1. This game has really cool sub-classes that all have a different twist that allows them to solo and contribute something unique to the group.

Making any class less powerful and capable does not contribute to enjoyment of the game.

Make us cooler with new abilities and new spells, if we get more powerful, move up the game with AI or new mobs, mob tactics.

Come on you guys - blood and fire, not flag football.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message Edited by Ramtaku12 on 04-15-2005 12:03 AM

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Old 04-15-2005, 10:48 AM   #12
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Ramtaku12 wrote:

We're not some chubby soft Friar Tucks that cram into our heavy armor, praying not to get hit because we can barely move.

We're INQUISTORS - iron willed with fanatical devotion to the cause of our God.

Our bodies are coiled tools that have run 100s of miles and fought countless battles.

We wear supple plate, the best available, so that we move more easily as we gain experience and strength.

Battle Priests from hell, not turtles unable to dodge a blow or parry a strike with our weapons.

 

*also on Inquis forum - wouldn't have started it if i knew this thread was here*



You, like I as an SK, wear plate .. you are burdend by this and thus can not dodge as effectively as lets say a Monk.  You are a divine caster, leverging the will of the gods to heal and do damage . you are not a weapon weilder and thus should not have Parry.  You, however, should be able to use a Kite shield and gain the ability to block more effecitvely thus returning some of the 'avoidance' you are losing with Parry.


 

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Old 04-15-2005, 11:33 AM   #13
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you are not a weapon weilder


 

I beg to differ - yes I am. I've fought an incredible number of battles with my weapon type - what is a parry?

Parry

1. Turn Blow Aside

transitive and intransitive verb:  to block or deflect the damaging effect of a blow or weapon (Encarta N.American Dictionary)

I've messed around with hand weapons and blocking a blow is one of the first things you learn, it is almost - or is - instinct.

Anyone that handles any type of of weapon should have a chance to parry - its not like I'm expecting Riposte.


You are burdend by this and thus can not dodge as effectively as lets say a Monk


I agree, I'm not expecting that, but I am a battle healer in heavy magic armor (magic = weight reduction) that I have been wearing since my 20th season.

It is body fitting and is not crafted of common ore by a common black-smith.

I can't really "tank" because I have almost no melee DPS, an awesome hit at level 34 is 35 - come on, how am I a tank, just because I can take a beating?

Do you really want your healer to take more damage then they do now when they get agro? At least now we can pop a reactive and keep ourself up while you re-establish agro.

That is what it really boils down to from a bottom-line point of view. Healers that go down faster mean more group wipes. I really can't understand why anyone would argue for more group wipes because of a sterotypical view-point of how each class should function.

 

 

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Old 04-15-2005, 11:48 AM   #14
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Ramtaku12 wrote:

you are not a weapon weilder


 

I beg to differ - yes I am. I've fought an incredible number of battles with my weapon type - what is a parry?

Parry

1. Turn Blow Aside

transitive and intransitive verb:  to block or deflect the damaging effect of a blow or weapon (Encarta N.American Dictionary)

I've messed around with hand weapons and blocking a blow is one of the first things you learn, it is almost - or is - instinct.

Anyone that handles any type of of weapon should have a chance to parry - its not like I'm expecting Riposte.


You are burdend by this and thus can not dodge as effectively as lets say a Monk


I agree, I'm not expecting that, but I am a battle healer in heavy magic armor (magic = weight reduction) that I have been wearing since my 20th season.

It is body fitting and is not crafted of common ore by a common black-smith.

I can't really "tank" because I have almost no melee DPS, an awesome hit at level 34 is 35 - come on, how am I a tank, just because I can take a beating?

Do you really want your healer to take more damage then they do now when they get agro? At least now we can pop a reactive and keep ourself up while you re-establish agro.

That is what it really boils down to from a bottom-line point of view. Healers that go down faster mean more group wipes. I really can't understand why anyone would argue for more group wipes because of a sterotypical view-point of how each class should function.

 

 




You missed the last part of my post ... while I tend to agree with the Parry removal for priests, you should be able to mitigate that loss by use of a Kite shield.   As for group wipes, if others are taking agro off the tank .. either the tank is not good at his/her job or the member needs to better manage his/her agro.  Encounters should not be so trival that once the tank gets agro the rest can go slap happy with abilities/spells .. some skill in the later needs to exist.

Added: More so, using that arugment about group wipes just does not fly .. how do you fit in Shammy and Druids into that equasion when they have far less mitigation then you do?

Message Edited by Tamian on 04-15-2005 12:50 AM

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Old 04-15-2005, 01:15 PM   #15
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IMHO removing completely parry from the priests classes it's extreme, the way it currently work (considerably lower cap than fighters on parry) was a good compromise. From there to say that all priests will become completely unable to parry any hit it's a very far stretch ...
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Old 04-15-2005, 01:17 PM   #16
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25th Templar here and honestly I dont feel nerfed.
 
When soloing my problem has never been taking to much damage but running out of power for my nukes. So after this change instead of having 70% health and 0% power after the fight I will have probably 30% health and still 0% power which  means my downtime will be exactly the same as before.
 
In groups I rarely get attacked, which will probably change due tu healing aggro but the point is that it was never my avoidance, block or parry that saved me long enough for the tanks to pick up aggro again but the migitation of my vanguard plate.
 
In groups I usually wield a 2-handed so I dont care about buckler changes either. A larger shiled would be nice though because the wooden buckler looks rather odd on my plate-covered back SMILEY
 
PS: parry should rather depend on weapon not on class like: scimitar=parry, hammer=no parry

Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on 04-15-2005 03:59 AM

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Old 04-15-2005, 01:19 PM   #17
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you have become better at double posting (10)
 
you gain a troll level

Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on 04-15-2005 03:59 AM

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Old 04-15-2005, 07:24 PM   #18
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Yes but the point is that it affects the clerics the severest in the priest classes: 1/ You have the lowest health points of all the priest classes 2/ You have the lowest damage output of all the priest classes (hence you're running out of power on damage) 3/ AND now you will have the least avoidance of all the priest classes (plus the all priest parry removal). You say that you will have 30% health remaining on your mobs instead of the 70% before but looking at test server results from other classes, things are bleaker than that in terms of incoming damage. So when soloing was slow and tedious because of the long downtimes and slow battles from the low damageout put from clerics, you 'now' have the additional component of knowing that you may have been able to avoid a lot of damage before, this time around you are much more likely to die against things other priest classes specially shamans (medium armour, more hps, and defilers esp have a 'lot' more offence) breeze through and of courserun away fast from through SOW. And of course when you heal yourself to remove that extra damage its going from that power pool that is always short for the offence. 'That' is the stark problem affecting clerics specifically after this patch focussing on the gravity of heavy armour and low avoidance on a class that only had to allow its slow soloing.
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Old 04-15-2005, 08:01 PM   #19
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Dear SOE Developers,

Please consider the following improvements to Priest/Shaman/Defiler classes (as applicable) before removing Parry from the Priest character class:

-         For Shaman/Defilers, improving wards either by making them less expensive, increasing # of hits it takes before knocking one down, and/or increasing damage absorbed.  Some improvements in wards that have been made have been noticed and welcome and I’d like to see the rest of the ward spells adjusted accordingly.

-         For Priests, either improving # of HPs healed or making healing less expensive... especially for Defilers.

If these items cannot be placed under consideration, I'd be grateful for a comment from the developers regarding the intended role, vision, and function for Shaman/Defiler class characters.  Many other players consider Defilers 'gimped', and I've enjoyed playing my Defiler, however the disadvantages to playing a Defiler with relevance to balance with other support/healer classes are becoming increasingly self evident.  I have concern about the effect of removing parry as a non-magic skill that my defiler relies upon both in solo and group play.

 

Thank you for your time and attention,

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Old 04-15-2005, 08:53 PM   #20
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Hopefully peppering this information all around the forums will help be clear about our intentions with the combat changes: Live Update #7 will not include the combat changes. They are simply on the Test server for testing and feedback so we can ensure that we balance them out to achieve the desired effect. The changes will not go to Live servers until we also make several changes to spells, such as adjusting both healing and damage numbers. The goal is to keep solo and small group play very similar to the way it is now. That is, not overly challenging and at the same time, not at all trivial. Groups and raids taking on powerful encounters should meet a greater challenge. Again, they won't be so challenging that you can't take them on, but we don't want powerful encounters to be trivialized as they sometimes can be now. If you would like to check out the current combat changes and provide feedback on them, please feel free to log into the Test server and give your feedback here.
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Old 04-15-2005, 08:56 PM   #21
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Blackguard wrote:
Hopefully peppering this information all around the forums will help be clear about our intentions with the combat changes:

Live Update #7 will not include the combat changes. They are simply on the Test server for testing and feedback so we can ensure that we balance them out to achieve the desired effect. The changes will not go to Live servers until we also make several changes to spells, such as adjusting both healing and damage numbers.

The goal is to keep solo and small group play very similar to the way it is now. That is, not overly challenging and at the same time, not at all trivial. Groups and raids taking on powerful encounters should meet a greater challenge. Again, they won't be so challenging that you can't take them on, but we don't want powerful encounters to be trivialized as they sometimes can be now.

If you would like to check out the current combat changes and provide feedback on them, please feel free to log into the Test server and give your feedback here.



Can you please be more verbose on the "The goal is to keep solo and small group play very similar to the way it is now" part.  There are alot of concerns with the current distribution of group mobs being overwhelmed by solo/small group encounters.
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Old 04-15-2005, 09:03 PM   #22
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Blackguard wrote:Hopefully peppering this information all around the forums will help be clear about our intentions with the combat changes:
Good luck with that.  I have tried the peppering approach this morning to clear up some misconceptions about these changes, and it doesn't seem to be working well.  /shrug
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Old 04-15-2005, 09:06 PM   #23
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Sebastien wrote:


Blackguard wrote:
Hopefully peppering this information all around the forums will help be clear about our intentions with the combat changes:




Good luck with that.  I have tried the peppering approach this morning to clear up some misconceptions about these changes, and it doesn't seem to be working well.  /shrug



"The sky is falling!!111"

 

no no .. dude .. its NOT going live ... they are just testing ..

 

"but .. but .. The sky is falling!!111"

 

Kinda like that Seb?

 

lol

 

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Old 04-15-2005, 09:08 PM   #24
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Blackguard wrote:
Hopefully peppering this information all around the forums will help be clear about our intentions with the combat changes:



Heres an idea Blackguard, how bout you folks at SOE just come out and tell us what your intentions are, theres a quant idea.

This is what most people are seeing........NERF


 

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Old 04-15-2005, 09:11 PM   #25
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Blackguard wrote:
Hopefully peppering this information all around the forums will help be clear about our intentions with the combat changes:

Live Update #7 will not include the combat changes. They are simply on the Test server for testing and feedback so we can ensure that we balance them out to achieve the desired effect. The changes will not go to Live servers until we also make several changes to spells, such as adjusting both healing and damage numbers.

The goal is to keep solo and small group play very similar to the way it is now. That is, not overly challenging and at the same time, not at all trivial. Groups and raids taking on powerful encounters should meet a greater challenge. Again, they won't be so challenging that you can't take them on, but we don't want powerful encounters to be trivialized as they sometimes can be now.

If you would like to check out the current combat changes and provide feedback on them, please feel free to log into the Test server and give your feedback here.



I would, but I don't see how feedback from a level 1 character is going to be overly helpful.  Just as an example, no class can use plate until at least level 20, so any mitigation testing is out the window.  If I started today the odds of me hitting 20 before the patch went live anyway are nil.  I'd love to know how many raids are performed on test as well, from what I'm hearing there aren't enough high level characters to test high level content over there - Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the reason that the raid instance of Nektopolus castle was so bugged when it went live?

My suggestion is to make "test" a legitimate server, that way there's no unfairness to the folks that have trudged a path of testing - change the name "Heroes" or something to reward them in their efforts.  Make a new "Test" server and allow us to copy character's over.  That's really the only way your going to get a full range of feedback unless you want to wait another few months for the Test server folks to level up and be able to tackle a large part of the game content.

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Old 04-15-2005, 09:15 PM   #26
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Scrav wrote:

Laiina wrote:
The actual damage mitigation we get by having Parry is probably minimal - perhaps 5% at best. But it was these small percent nerfs in EQ1 that over a couple of years added up to a character that could barely solo low green mobs, and was totally dependent on groups and raids for xp or loot.

Parry supposedly accounts for just under half of my avoidance as a Mystic, if the avoidance breakdown is anything to go by.  I presume it is similar for other priest classes.  I'm concerned about spell interrupts with such a large hit to avoidance.

And that is my concern also. Even now, if attacked by 3-4 high grey mobs I can get interrupted a lot. I tried taking on a group of 4 greens last night - all with a down ^ - and got constant interuptions. In a group situation, Parry is pretty much a non issue most of the time unless you have a tank that cannot hold aggro, but in solo or a two or three group party with no tank, it can be an issue if it is going to decrease my ability to cast.
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Old 04-15-2005, 09:23 PM   #27
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Blackdog183 wrote:

Heres an idea Blackguard, how bout you folks at SOE just come out and tell us what your intentions are, theres a quant idea.

This is what most people are seeing........NERF  


OK I honestly need to ask you something.  Do you read?  You are mocking Blackguard, and asking him to tell you what SOE's intentions are, in response to a post where he said this: "
The goal is to keep solo and small group play very similar to the way it is now. That is, not overly challenging and at the same time, not at all trivial. Groups and raids taking on powerful encounters should meet a greater challenge. Again, they won't be so challenging that you can't take them on, but we don't want powerful encounters to be trivialized as they sometimes can be now." If that is not specific enough for you, I can translate. Right now, in the group and raid context, you can stack stats and buffs correctly so that you avoid every attack.  Some groups use this to fight green-con'd heroic and epic encounters in such a way that they get nice rewards for taking no risk. Why do people play a game that way?  I have no idea.  Our guild experimented with it once to defeat an epic encounter.  We found it utterly dull and choose not to play that way.  But some people view this as a contest so they like things like that.. and they abuse mechanics when they can. SOE thinks it is dumb for people to engage in encounters in which they can never ever be hit.  So they are fixing avoidance mechanics.  After they fix avoidance mechanics, they plan to go back, and review mob DPS and healing output, so that if you are NOT one of the people who was using these exploits, then overall, the game will feel about the same to you, once they are done.
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Old 04-15-2005, 09:24 PM   #28
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Blackguard,

Could you please 'pepper' enchanters with some information, too? SMILEY  After being promised DPS enhancements in LU7, we're now being told nothing.  MG's posts say that healing changes must wait until the new combat system is tested, as healing and tanking are intertwined.  This makes perfect sense.  But what's up with enchanters now?   All 30 of us are really curious! SMILEY

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Old 04-15-2005, 09:29 PM   #29
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Sebastien wrote:


Blackdog183 wrote:

Heres an idea Blackguard, how bout you folks at SOE just come out and tell us what your intentions are, theres a quant idea.

This is what most people are seeing........NERF
 




OK I honestly need to ask you something.  Do you read?  You are mocking Blackguard, and asking him to tell you what SOE's intentions are, in response to a post where he said this:

"
The goal is to keep solo and small group play very similar to the way it is now. That is, not overly challenging and at the same time, not at all trivial. Groups and raids taking on powerful encounters should meet a greater challenge. Again, they won't be so challenging that you can't take them on, but we don't want powerful encounters to be trivialized as they sometimes can be now."

If that is not specific enough for you, I can translate.

Right now, in the group and raid context, you can stack stats and buffs correctly so that you avoid every attack.  Some groups use this to fight green-con'd heroic and epic encounters in such a way that they get nice rewards for taking no risk.

Why do people play a game that way?  I have no idea.  Our guild experimented with it once to defeat an epic encounter.  We found it utterly dull and choose not to play that way.  But some people view this as a contest so they like things like that.. and they abuse mechanics when they can.

SOE thinks it is dumb for people to engage in encounters in which they can never ever be hit.  So they are fixing avoidance mechanics.  After they fix avoidance mechanics, they plan to go back, and review mob DPS and healing output, so that if you are NOT one of the people who was using these exploits, then overall, the game will feel about the same to you, once they are done.




As you and I discussed in a differnt thread .. there is a vast differnce pre 40 and post 40.  Looking at your guild, with only 2 players just at 40 your not experiancing what some of the concerns are.  Just between 30's and 40's there is a vast differance (not the spike that occurs, but in general) of damage output by MoBs .. encounters are tuned to have multiple engagments .. and issues that people are raising are very valid.  Your points are valid as well, but dont discount the concerns being voiced in areas you can not 'test'. 

This includes my question a few posts above that while MG did give some info in that statement, there needs to be a bit more verbosity in it to address concerns .. including (the highest one I have until more changes are done to test) the overland population distirbution. 

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Old 04-15-2005, 09:30 PM   #30
Blackdog183

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Sebastien wrote:


Blackdog183 wrote:

Heres an idea Blackguard, how bout you folks at SOE just come out and tell us what your intentions are, theres a quant idea.

This is what most people are seeing........NERF
 




OK I honestly need to ask you something.  Do you read?  You are mocking Blackguard, and asking him to tell you what SOE's intentions are, in response to a post where he said this:

"The goal is to keep solo and small group play very similar to the way it is now. That is, not overly challenging and at the same time, not at all trivial. Groups and raids taking on powerful encounters should meet a greater challenge. Again, they won't be so challenging that you can't take them on, but we don't want powerful encounters to be trivialized as they sometimes can be now."

If that is not specific enough for you, I can translate.

Right now, in the group and raid context, you can stack stats and buffs correctly so that you avoid every attack.  Some groups use this to fight green-con'd heroic and epic encounters in such a way that they get nice rewards for taking no risk.

So instead of adressing the buffs that are the problem, they revamp the entire system, thus screwing over crusaders and scouts, nice, real nice.  Thats kinda like dropping a nuclear bomb to take out a fly....overkill.

Why do people play a game that way?  I have no idea.  Our guild experimented with it once to defeat an epic encounter.  We found it utterly dull and choose not to play that way.  But some people view this as a contest so they like things like that.. and they abuse mechanics when they can.

I agree, why do people play that way, and a green epic mob should be pretty damned easy anyway compared to a yellow one, hence it being green.

SOE thinks it is dumb for people to engage in encounters in which they can never ever be hit.  So they are fixing avoidance mechanics.  After they fix avoidance mechanics, they plan to go back, and review mob DPS and healing output, so that if you are NOT one of the people who was using these exploits, then overall, the game will feel about the same to you, once they are done.

Okay, so in essense what you saying, nerf now, buff later?  Sorry that doesent hold water, if they are planning on changing the way in which I have to tank(in the end game) and/or make me take more damage(which btw Im already being hit for 1k+ when tanking) then yes I would most definatly call it a nerf.  Before they even fathom putting this change to live, it needs to be 1. done right and 2. tested to hell and back.  They need to adress all the issues at once when this thing goes live, to include healing, mob DPS, spells, and most importantly BALANCE.  As it stands right now, crusaders and scouts are getting royaly *$%#&!ed over with this change.






So what I meant with my original statement, is they need to come out and say whether or not they intent to neuter scouts and crusaders.  They need to explain how this change will be balanced.  You say that their wont se signifigant change, then they need to explain how so.  What changes to healing, mob DPS, spells etc.....thats what they need to be specific about.

Message Edited by Blackdog183 on 04-15-2005 10:31 AM

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