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Old 12-18-2004, 02:39 AM   #1
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Hmm, I thought I am going to urber with my spectral ward at adept III, but afraid not.
 
Traded my guilde with a opal braclet for a silver cluster to upgrade my spectral ward, thinking it shoudl
greatly enhances my ability as a healer, but I guess it is not as effective as a wizard or someone that upgrade
thier damage attack spells at adept III ...
 
At higher lvl, like hunting in varsoon, ward's ability just greatly went down.
mobs does speical attack at 200-300, ward just simply can't keep up with it.
If im the only healer in the group, currently at lvl 27, only have healing ritual and minor arch healing
on hand to heal, it just doesn't seem enough , espeically with the long reset on healin ritual and long cast time
on minor arch healing.. minor healing ..psh.   that thing is off my hot bar...
 
So i was wondering if it is possible that Ancestral Ward would stack with Spectral Ward,
hence MT can have two ward on them.. i remembered I saw something in patch note
saying it can't.. but forgot.. can anyone confirm this ?
 
 
 
 
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Old 12-18-2004, 02:44 AM   #2
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Just wondering as to why you are not using Totemic Aid as a heal instead of Minor arch??? I use totemic mostly and Healing ritual if he really starts to go downhill fast.  As far as the stacking or wards I was wondering this also?
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Old 12-18-2004, 04:24 AM   #3
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Hmm good question .
 
I alwasy thought Totemic aid is an crappy heal and remove noxious impariments only ..
 
I guess they are pretty powerful ?!? hehe shall try it once the server is up..
 
 
so anyone know whether wards would stack each up ?
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Old 12-18-2004, 06:12 AM   #4
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Yes the wards stack.  The higher level ward always takes precedence.  If your tank takes a big wack for example, it will kill the higher level ward and he will take whatever damage was not absorbed by that ward only.  Then the lower level ward kicks in.  Use this to your advantage and wards don't seem nearly as [Removed for Content] anymore.  They are cheap to cast and it gets around the refresh timer.  Hope that helps.
 
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Old 12-18-2004, 06:34 AM   #5
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If you can get your hands on Ancestral Ward Adapt 3, do it.  I got it a couple nights ago and while I don't know the stats on what the ward absorbs, I was fighting in RoV and would probably have to recast it once against a red ^^ golem.  In addition the main healer (I was just warding, slowing and dot'ing) would rarely have to heal.  It was great!
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Old 12-18-2004, 09:41 AM   #6
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Wow... where are you guys pickin' up and finding Adept 3 wards?
 
I think I'm still using Apprentice level scrolls SMILEY
 
 
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Old 12-18-2004, 10:30 AM   #7
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Hehe you don't find them.
 
Adept 3 is player made only.
 
Tier 2 - you would need a silver cluster
 
Tier 3- you would need to find palladium
 
oh ya.. and a lvl 20+ sage to craft u that SMILEY
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Old 12-18-2004, 10:33 AM   #8
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Pukeysta wrote:
Wow... where are you guys pickin' up and finding Adept 3 wards?
 
I think I'm still using Apprentice level scrolls SMILEY
 
 



to get an adept 3 made, you need to mine / buy a rare mineral harvest.  For level 20-29 spells, you can use jasper or pallandium (spelling?).  You take this rare mineral, and have an alchemist with the correct recipe make the appropriate ink.  Then you can take this ink to a scribe, and if they have the recipe to make your adept 3 spell, they can scribe it for you.  Hope this helps!
oh, rares can be expensive.  I paid 12 gold for my rare mineral to make ancestral ward.  Expect the alchemist and scribe to charge for the combine as well, as they have to pay for additional components to make their parts. 

Message Edited by Periak on 12-17-2004 09:33 PM

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Old 12-19-2004, 07:20 PM   #9
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Khelyn wrote:
Just wondering as to why you are not using Totemic Aid as a heal instead of Minor arch??? I use totemic mostly and Healing ritual if he really starts to go downhill fast. As far as the stacking or wards I was wondering this also?

Totemic Aid is less mana efficient.
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Old 12-20-2004, 10:07 PM   #10
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I actually keep both MAH and Totemic up, in addition to HR.  MAH is a fairly slow cast and recast, and sometimes I want to use it again before it's ready - in which case Totemic is nice.  But in general, MAH is what I use, as has been stated, for mana efficiency.
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Old 12-20-2004, 10:45 PM   #11
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Khelyn wrote:
Just wondering as to why you are not using Totemic Aid as a heal instead of Minor arch??? I use totemic mostly and Healing ritual if he really starts to go downhill fast.  As far as the stacking or wards I was wondering this also?



Doesnt matter the point is the mystic should be able to keep the group/tank alive as well and as effective as a druid or cleric and we can not.  It's plain and simple.
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Old 12-21-2004, 08:23 PM   #12
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Not sure where that came from . . . .
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Old 12-22-2004, 01:56 AM   #13
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Karlace wrote:


Khelyn wrote:
Just wondering as to why you are not using Totemic Aid as a heal instead of Minor arch??? I use totemic mostly and Healing ritual if he really starts to go downhill fast.  As far as the stacking or wards I was wondering this also?



Doesnt matter the point is the mystic should be able to keep the group/tank alive as well and as effective as a druid or cleric and we can not.  It's plain and simple.



I can keep my group/tank alive as well and as effective as a druid or cleric.  I must be bugged.

 

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Old 12-22-2004, 03:05 AM   #14
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yeah, a mystic is just as capable as being the primary healer as any other priest subclass.  This is what works for me, get that ward up at the beginging to deal with the initial onslaught, then get all your debuffs up.  Your debuffs are just as much part of or in many ways more a part of your healing than your wards and heals.  With the mystic debuffs, I can have a mob missing and doing no damage most of the time, even with a rogue as tank.  I often find that a single ward will time out and not spend out once all the debuffs are on the mob.
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Old 12-22-2004, 06:02 AM   #15
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Debuff is the key ! The main way of shaman "healing" is not having damage occur in the first place. Keening Haze + Delusion. Or what ever you use at your current level.
 
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Old 12-22-2004, 08:34 PM   #16
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While I agree in principle with Wolf, I think that Wards should have a much greater margin for error than they do at the moment.
 
For instance, what happens when my Slow is resisted?  Or my Delusion?  My party wipes?  That sucks.
 
Placing the Ward behind the tanks AC mitigation is a start, but even with that, I think that the Wards need to sit somewhere between the 480 points a Druid heals with his regen and the 612 points a Cleric heals with his reactive.  Right now, our Ward sits at 403 points pre-mitigation.
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Old 12-22-2004, 08:44 PM   #17
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Wolfherz wrote:
Debuff is the key ! The main way of shaman "healing" is not having damage occur in the first place. Keening Haze + Delusion. Or what ever you use at your current level.
 



I agree with this, however, our stamina debuffs currently do not work.  I am almost certain that they have been turned off completely as of over a week ago due to Sony feeling that they were working *too* well.  Mystics were able to recast delusion repeatedly and take off stamina, and therefore hitpoints - almost like a DD spell.  Now, they don't adjust an NPC's hitpoints at all - try it on any mob.

Slows still work fine.

 

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Old 12-22-2004, 10:17 PM   #18
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I was beginning to suspect this was the case.  Since I did not possess Delusion prior to this week, I had no way to know if I should be seeing the result of the debuff in the mob HP bar or not.
 
At least I can save myself some power until its fixed now.  Thanks for the heads up.
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Old 12-22-2004, 11:12 PM   #19
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huffy wrote:


Wolfherz wrote:
Debuff is the key ! The main way of shaman "healing" is not having damage occur in the first place. Keening Haze + Delusion. Or what ever you use at your current level.
 



I agree with this, however, our stamina debuffs currently do not work.  I am almost certain that they have been turned off completely as of over a week ago due to Sony feeling that they were working *too* well.  Mystics were able to recast delusion repeatedly and take off stamina, and therefore hitpoints - almost like a DD spell.  Now, they don't adjust an NPC's hitpoints at all - try it on any mob.

Slows still work fine.

 



I am fairly certain that the Str debuff on Delusion still works. That's to me actually even more important than the Sta debuff because it will make NPC hit less hard. I think the attack value of an NPC is matched against the defense value of the tank ... if you can lower the attack value via Str debuff the tank will do his/her job much better.

I never said debuff alone will do the trick, I merely shifted the emphasis SMILEY Of course one should always pre-ward. Most of the time I use both group ward and single ward on tank. The first is nice if someone screws up and draws early aggro.

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Old 12-27-2004, 09:35 AM   #20
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I have feeling that delusion works to some extend, but to balance healer with debuffs is madness. Debuffs CAN and WILL be resisted sooner or later and then you have major problems healing your group.If devs balance shaman as it seems to be now that ALL debuffs MUST land in order to keep group alive (we talk about yellow or orange group mobs here which most groups hunt) it makes shaman as pitiful as it was in Eq1. Eq1 shaman absolutely sucked since it was "balanced" with debuffs, mainly slow. It turned out that slow was too effective, so they refused to increase Eq1 shaman healing power as it should have done and finally nerfed slow too making shaman as popular in groups as plague.Eq1 was very good example about that debuffs cannot be used to tune healer, so tuning must be done with healing power (for mystic with healing spells and wards), not with debuffs. I have noticed that in order me to keep group alive I have to debuff all mobs and I find that that scary. It reminds me too closely of eq1 where that kind of tuning made shaman finally totally useless. Do we want that to happen in eq2?
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Old 12-29-2004, 12:46 AM   #21
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Felix Domesticus wrote:I have feeling that delusion works to some extend, but to balance healer with debuffs is madness. Debuffs CAN and WILL be resisted sooner or later and then you have major problems healing your group.If devs balance shaman as it seems to be now that ALL debuffs MUST land in order to keep group alive (we talk about yellow or orange group mobs here which most groups hunt) it makes shaman as pitiful as it was in Eq1. Eq1 shaman absolutely sucked since it was "balanced" with debuffs, mainly slow. It turned out that slow was too effective, so they refused to increase Eq1 shaman healing power as it should have done and finally nerfed slow too making shaman as popular in groups as plague.Eq1 was very good example about that debuffs cannot be used to tune healer, so tuning must be done with healing power (for mystic with healing spells and wards), not with debuffs. I have noticed that in order me to keep group alive I have to debuff all mobs and I find that that scary. It reminds me too closely of eq1 where that kind of tuning made shaman finally totally useless. Do we want that to happen in eq2?
You really must be having major problems with something else. I'm finding the mystic one of the most capable primary healers in the game, and yes the debuffs are a major part of it. Of course spells get resisted, but then you just cast them again. Your wards are there, use them, they buy you the time to land those debuffs. Because of my debuffs, I often use make do just fine with a rouge as main tank.Its very much a different game mystic healing in EQ2, its about wards and debuffs. The only time I use real healing spells is when all hell is breaking loose, healing is very power inefficient. Its all about using the wards to buy you the time to land the debuffs and then just maintaining them on with the occational ward thrown in to mitigate.If you don't like the debuff game, they you probably should look into playing a different class.
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Old 12-29-2004, 12:46 AM   #22
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Felix Domesticus wrote:I have feeling that delusion works to some extend, but to balance healer with debuffs is madness. Debuffs CAN and WILL be resisted sooner or later and then you have major problems healing your group.If devs balance shaman as it seems to be now that ALL debuffs MUST land in order to keep group alive (we talk about yellow or orange group mobs here which most groups hunt) it makes shaman as pitiful as it was in Eq1. Eq1 shaman absolutely sucked since it was "balanced" with debuffs, mainly slow. It turned out that slow was too effective, so they refused to increase Eq1 shaman healing power as it should have done and finally nerfed slow too making shaman as popular in groups as plague.Eq1 was very good example about that debuffs cannot be used to tune healer, so tuning must be done with healing power (for mystic with healing spells and wards), not with debuffs. I have noticed that in order me to keep group alive I have to debuff all mobs and I find that that scary. It reminds me too closely of eq1 where that kind of tuning made shaman finally totally useless. Do we want that to happen in eq2?
You really must be having major problems with something else. I'm finding the mystic one of the most capable primary healers in the game, and yes the debuffs are a major part of it. Of course spells get resisted, but then you just cast them again. Your wards are there, use them, they buy you the time to land those debuffs. Because of my debuffs, I often use make do just fine with a rouge as main tank.Its very much a different game mystic healing in EQ2, its about wards and debuffs. The only time I use real healing spells is when the stuff is hitting the fan, healing is very power inefficient. Its all about using the wards to buy you the time to land the debuffs and then just maintaining them on with the occational ward thrown in to mitigate.If you don't like the debuff game, they you probably should look into playing a different class.
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Old 12-29-2004, 08:25 AM   #23
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Keep in mind, if you are hunting in Varsoon- you're likely at the very BOTTOM of scale of Adept 3 ward.Spells are alot like gear- they have a range from which they upgrade by level in strength and effectivity. The only difference with spells is you can scribe them WAY before you've hit what would be equivalent to the "Required" level armor and gear has.What this means is- if you are high 20's/low 30's, your Adept 3 spell probably still has a way to go and advance as you level up. While if you upgraded from say Apprentice II-III, these might have been topped out at 100% strength. You're comparing the old at 100% effectivity to likely the new spell version at maybe 10% of it's overall strength/effectivity.There are a number of combinations where upgrading can actually reduce the power/strength of a spell. This is because it was scribed too early. There are a number of heals in the 20's that are this way- where the topped-out Apprentice III was more efficient power->heal, but then scribing an Adept 3 of the same spell would only gain a few health heal, but for 20-30% more power. As the player levels, the Adept3 increases in healing strength becoming more of an upgrade than a side-step.I'm not sure where exactly the sweet spot for Adept3 is for ward, but it sounds like you may be encountering this if you've scribed an Adept3 at a Varsoon's level range. It's conjecture at best, but I'm betting if you gain 4-5 levels, that same Adept3 ward will grow to where the upgrade will be felt much stronger- whereas your previous version might have been topped out.
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Old 12-29-2004, 09:44 AM   #24
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rego wrote:Its very much a different game mystic healing in EQ2, its about wards and debuffs. The only time I use real healing spells is when the stuff is hitting the fan, healing is very power inefficient. Its all about using the wards to buy you the time to land the debuffs and then just maintaining them on with the occational ward thrown in to mitigate.If you don't like the debuff game, they you probably should look into playing a different class.
Oh, yes and shaman was one of the best classes in original eq1. It changed with expansions when devs finally realised that they cannot balance game with debuffs and started penalizing shaman because it had best debuffs. I am afraid that same happens in eq2 and that it destroys the playability of shaman totally as it did in eq1. Mystic is quite nice atm, except for wards which suck very badly.
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Old 12-30-2004, 03:45 PM   #25
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Ahh, now i've gained a few lvl , now 30 .
 
 
Ward at adpet 3 is still crap. Period.
 
Well, maybe against some weaker monsters in TS or something, the ward shine suck in some damage.
But for the golems... nope, cast it on MT and gone right away SMILEY  
 
Debuffing mob?  sure , fully debuff, kneening haze, weakness, delusion... double ward the tank as well.
Still, the same.
 
It is like a joke with ward, when the monster hits so hard.
 
And when i was like  25-28ish in RoV....  golem resist like mad. Good luck on landing your debuffs, I tried like seven times striaght try to land a slow debuff
on the golems, wow, just won't land at all, keep resisting. Then realized that my power are gone cuz all those trying.
 
As oppose with ,, let's say druid's regen. boom, set it and forget it.  Templar's reactive heal, set it and forget it.
Mystic 's ward ? set it and watch it disappear it right away SMILEY
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Old 12-30-2004, 04:12 PM   #26
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Oxyi wrote:
Ahh, now i've gained a few lvl , now 30 .
Ward at adpet 3 is still crap. Period.
Well, maybe against some weaker monsters in TS or something, the ward shine suck in some damage.
But for the golems... nope, cast it on MT and gone right away SMILEY
Debuffing mob? sure , fully debuff, kneening haze, weakness, delusion... double ward the tank as well.
Still, the same.
It is like a joke with ward, when the monster hits so hard.
And when i was like 25-28ish in RoV.... golem resist like mad. Good luck on landing your debuffs, I tried like seven times striaght try to land a slow debuff
on the golems, wow, just won't land at all, keep resisting. Then realized that my power are gone cuz all those trying.
As oppose with ,, let's say druid's regen. boom, set it and forget it. Templar's reactive heal, set it and forget it.
Mystic 's ward ? set it and watch it disappear it right away SMILEY

Don't know what to say Oxyi, I've fought those same mobs and never had problems getting my debuffs to stick. And while yes, there are resists and yes wards go away pretty fast before you get those debuffs on, its never been a problem for me to get all my debuffs on without having to throw more that 1 heal or so unless the mob is 8+ levels than me. Once the debuffs are on, you never need to heal again.
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Old 01-01-2005, 05:20 AM   #27
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Wolfherz wrote:
Debuff is the key ! The main way of shaman "healing" is not having damage occur in the first place. Keening Haze + Delusion. Or what ever you use at your current level.
 



As to this concept, I love it and promote it.  However, Mystics should not have to use extra power to debuff to be not quite as effective, if nothing else goes wrong, as a Priest or Druid is without any of their debuffs.

Even this only works well against solo mobs.  It is not practical to cast and maintain debuffs against 3 or more opponents, although if there is a lead-mob getting just him may still be useful.  Otherwise I just stick to ward (not useless yet at my level), heal, and DoT.

 

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