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Old 12-09-2008, 09:31 PM   #31
LadyGalasya

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Smed wrote:

Banditman wrote:

There are two possibly results of this:

1.  The items turn into less than fluff, and become a "surcharge" for playing the game.  In this case, I'll vote with my dollars and go elsewhere.  There are a number of games out there that would love my business and don't require any sort of "surcharge" for play aside from the monthly fee.

2.  The items remain fluff, and the revenue generated from this allows SOE to add more developers to the team, thus enhancing my enjoyment of the game.  I continue to vote with my dollars by remaining a customer, and not giving a crap if the dude standing over there has glowy red crap around his hands.

The second these items become more than fluff items, SOE loses my respect and my patronage.

Our intention is certainly #2.

Everyone should realize that we love making great games here at SOE, and everyday we come to work and get to make great games. But we also have the business side of things to consider. I personally use microtransactions in other games. Magic Online for example and I play a lot of casual stuff. I'm also a heavy Battlefield 2 player and plan on playing Battlefield Heroes. That's going to be a microtransaction game... and I will absolutely pay money.. quite happily. But both of those games were designed with microtransactions in mind.

Now personally I would not choose to buy items in an MMORPG because earning them is part of what's fun about playing them in the first place. I do not consider that a "grind". However I know a LOT of people that disagree with that statement and regularly buy gold in many games.

So in the end it comes down to personal choice. I completely respect the opinion that this is a slippery slope on the road to a dark place. I believe in the end this is going to be a giant non-issue because you will see this more and more as time goes on in many games from many companies and I also think that if we handle it right and make sure we don't unbalance the game.. everyone can be happy.

I just saw a great post on shacknews about how the new Star Wars MMO is going to be microtransaction based.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/56292

To me that's exciting.. even if I don't ever buy a single thing. It's exciting because it opens up new possibilities for us as an industry. I also think that we as players are going to be presented with different ways to pay for games like this.

For example.. would you like a game where you didn't have to pay a subscription fee at all? I believe that with microtransactions that is likely to happen. A small percentage of the players will spend a dramatic amount of money and could literally give a lot of "free" gameplay to a lot of other people.. thereby opening up online games to a lot more people. I understand that we're adding this to a live game and that is the real issue here.

Smed

Sorry Smed, I dont buy it. whatever your "intention" we have seen how SoE loves to "balance" things. Sorry to say that SoE's loss of customer respect makes anything you say hard or impossible to believe as you speak on their behalf

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Old 12-09-2008, 09:31 PM   #32
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Smed wrote:

Banditman wrote:

There are two possibly results of this:

1.  The items turn into less than fluff, and become a "surcharge" for playing the game.  In this case, I'll vote with my dollars and go elsewhere.  There are a number of games out there that would love my business and don't require any sort of "surcharge" for play aside from the monthly fee.

2.  The items remain fluff, and the revenue generated from this allows SOE to add more developers to the team, thus enhancing my enjoyment of the game.  I continue to vote with my dollars by remaining a customer, and not giving a crap if the dude standing over there has glowy red crap around his hands.

The second these items become more than fluff items, SOE loses my respect and my patronage.

Our intention is certainly #2.

Everyone should realize that we love making great games here at SOE, and everyday we come to work and get to make great games. But we also have the business side of things to consider. I personally use microtransactions in other games. Magic Online for example and I play a lot of casual stuff. I'm also a heavy Battlefield 2 player and plan on playing Battlefield Heroes. That's going to be a microtransaction game... and I will absolutely pay money.. quite happily. But both of those games were designed with microtransactions in mind.

Now personally I would not choose to buy items in an MMORPG because earning them is part of what's fun about playing them in the first place. I do not consider that a "grind". However I know a LOT of people that disagree with that statement and regularly buy gold in many games.

So in the end it comes down to personal choice. I completely respect the opinion that this is a slippery slope on the road to a dark place. I believe in the end this is going to be a giant non-issue because you will see this more and more as time goes on in many games from many companies and I also think that if we handle it right and make sure we don't unbalance the game.. everyone can be happy.

I just saw a great post on shacknews about how the new Star Wars MMO is going to be microtransaction based.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/56292

To me that's exciting.. even if I don't ever buy a single thing. It's exciting because it opens up new possibilities for us as an industry. I also think that we as players are going to be presented with different ways to pay for games like this.

For example.. would you like a game where you didn't have to pay a subscription fee at all? I believe that with microtransactions that is likely to happen. A small percentage of the players will spend a dramatic amount of money and could literally give a lot of "free" gameplay to a lot of other people.. thereby opening up online games to a lot more people. I understand that we're adding this to a live game and that is the real issue here.

Smed

While this maybe true in what you say we have seen a hypocracy of sorts atleast from our perspective.  Legends of Norrath comes to mind which some believe gave plat sellers another venue for selling their goods. 

If these "fluff" items are implemented as you say what stops you SoE from implementing "Special" items such as an orb that helps you to complete a quest.  Another consideration is buying a "Set" box for 700coins+ of your currency that allows you to obtain all items for a collection quest.  These items are then inturn sold for plat thus providing a way for plat sellers and regular people to "Buy Plat".  This can already be done in a limited fashion with Legends of Norrath.  If you buy a booster pack and are lucky enough to get an item card you can then "Trade" that item for plat in game trading a worthless card for the item card.  This has already been done and while it's hard to find legitimate people to do this with they do exist.

Already with the 50% character bonus, Vitality, Xp potions and server double xp bonus my level 80 on my main toon right now seems like a minor achievement.  People can create a toon and from the numerous tutorials out there zoom to level 80 inside of a month instead of taking 5-6 months.  This being "Casual" 3-5 hrs a day instead of an insane 6-8hrs a day.

I'm sad to say that instead of this "Station Cash" being a shining moment it maybe considered a nail in the preferbial coffin. 

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Old 12-09-2008, 09:38 PM   #33
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Smed the way i see it this is just a short move from selling insta level 80s..sure its fluff now but in a years time things will be different of that i'm sure,you only have to look at LoN to see that.

I had no problem with the live gamer servers at all,indeed i could see it made a lot of sense from your view but we didnt want this sort of thing on normal servers

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Old 12-09-2008, 09:43 PM   #34
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Smed wrote:

I just saw a great post on shacknews about how the new Star Wars MMO is going to be microtransaction based.

Wow Smed bringing up a Star Wars MMO. You're treading into dangerous territory there.  Looks like you're working on ruining another MMO.  Anytime Smed has to chime in and defend something I know it has to be a bad situation.

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Old 12-09-2008, 09:48 PM   #35
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[email protected] wrote:

Banditman wrote:

1.  The items turn into less than fluff, and become a "surcharge" for playing the game.  In this case, I'll vote with my dollars and go elsewhere.  There are a number of games out there that would love my business and don't require any sort of "surcharge" for play aside from the monthly fee.

3. Said company's see thousands of players dumping money into the game beyond the monthly subscriptions and you're forced to pay or quit gaming all together while millions of others fall in behind you with new subscriptions.

Always easy to see the dark side it is. mhmm.. 

always seeing the darkside perhaps....  But its clear soe itself knew that this is an idea that is simply meant to fleece the current surscriber base.  Other wise why hide it pre-launch?   

As an aside its better to be a Pessimist  then an apologist and shill for soe.

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Old 12-09-2008, 09:53 PM   #36
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Smed wrote:

Banditman wrote:

There are two possibly results of this:

1.  The items turn into less than fluff, and become a "surcharge" for playing the game.  In this case, I'll vote with my dollars and go elsewhere.  There are a number of games out there that would love my business and don't require any sort of "surcharge" for play aside from the monthly fee.

2.  The items remain fluff, and the revenue generated from this allows SOE to add more developers to the team, thus enhancing my enjoyment of the game.  I continue to vote with my dollars by remaining a customer, and not giving a crap if the dude standing over there has glowy red crap around his hands.

The second these items become more than fluff items, SOE loses my respect and my patronage.

Our intention is certainly #2.

Everyone should realize that we love making great games here at SOE, and everyday we come to work and get to make great games. But we also have the business side of things to consider. I personally use microtransactions in other games. Magic Online for example and I play a lot of casual stuff. I'm also a heavy Battlefield 2 player and plan on playing Battlefield Heroes. That's going to be a microtransaction game... and I will absolutely pay money.. quite happily. But both of those games were designed with microtransactions in mind.

Now personally I would not choose to buy items in an MMORPG because earning them is part of what's fun about playing them in the first place. I do not consider that a "grind". However I know a LOT of people that disagree with that statement and regularly buy gold in many games.

So in the end it comes down to personal choice. I completely respect the opinion that this is a slippery slope on the road to a dark place. I believe in the end this is going to be a giant non-issue because you will see this more and more as time goes on in many games from many companies and I also think that if we handle it right and make sure we don't unbalance the game.. everyone can be happy.

I just saw a great post on shacknews about how the new Star Wars MMO is going to be microtransaction based.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/56292

To me that's exciting.. even if I don't ever buy a single thing. It's exciting because it opens up new possibilities for us as an industry. I also think that we as players are going to be presented with different ways to pay for games like this.

For example.. would you like a game where you didn't have to pay a subscription fee at all? I believe that with microtransactions that is likely to happen. A small percentage of the players will spend a dramatic amount of money and could literally give a lot of "free" gameplay to a lot of other people.. thereby opening up online games to a lot more people. I understand that we're adding this to a live game and that is the real issue here.

Smed

You know, sometime back there was an MMORPG about space, heroes, epic pvp battles, city building and many other things, one day they released expansion and a little bit later 1 patch that turned game from RPG into 3rd person shooter. That patch was total mystery for most players and many players were very angry because of it.

Reason I talk about it is: It looks like you are destined to repeat your own mistakes. We get "item shop" and new arrive on release day, no announcement, no survey (although you claim that it was made as response to some kind of survey.) NOTHING. Of course there are multiple reasons for that, and they all sound bad for players.

Now personally I would not choose to buy items in an MMORPG because earning them is part of what's fun about playing them in the first place. I do not consider that a "grind". However I know a LOT of people that disagree with that statement and regularly buy gold in many games.

See the problem right here? Players buy gold/plat/whatever not get fluff items, they buy it to get real advantage over other players. Thats why it sells. Seeing that, I can only think that your next move is to add such items to your "item shop" to defeat competition. Simple as that. Instead of fighting something and loosing money on fight, offer same stuff yourself and get profit. This is pure logic.

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Old 12-09-2008, 09:58 PM   #37
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Smed wrote:

Banditman wrote:

There are two possibly results of this:

1.  The items turn into less than fluff, and become a "surcharge" for playing the game.  In this case, I'll vote with my dollars and go elsewhere.  There are a number of games out there that would love my business and don't require any sort of "surcharge" for play aside from the monthly fee.

2.  The items remain fluff, and the revenue generated from this allows SOE to add more developers to the team, thus enhancing my enjoyment of the game.  I continue to vote with my dollars by remaining a customer, and not giving a crap if the dude standing over there has glowy red crap around his hands.

The second these items become more than fluff items, SOE loses my respect and my patronage.

Our intention is certainly #2.

Everyone should realize that we love making great games here at SOE, and everyday we come to work and get to make great games. But we also have the business side of things to consider. I personally use microtransactions in other games. Magic Online for example and I play a lot of casual stuff. I'm also a heavy Battlefield 2 player and plan on playing Battlefield Heroes. That's going to be a microtransaction game... and I will absolutely pay money.. quite happily. But both of those games were designed with microtransactions in mind.

Now personally I would not choose to buy items in an MMORPG because earning them is part of what's fun about playing them in the first place. I do not consider that a "grind". However I know a LOT of people that disagree with that statement and regularly buy gold in many games.

So in the end it comes down to personal choice. I completely respect the opinion that this is a slippery slope on the road to a dark place. I believe in the end this is going to be a giant non-issue because you will see this more and more as time goes on in many games from many companies and I also think that if we handle it right and make sure we don't unbalance the game.. everyone can be happy.

I just saw a great post on shacknews about how the new Star Wars MMO is going to be microtransaction based.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/56292

To me that's exciting.. even if I don't ever buy a single thing. It's exciting because it opens up new possibilities for us as an industry. I also think that we as players are going to be presented with different ways to pay for games like this.

For example.. would you like a game where you didn't have to pay a subscription fee at all? I believe that with microtransactions that is likely to happen. A small percentage of the players will spend a dramatic amount of money and could literally give a lot of "free" gameplay to a lot of other people.. thereby opening up online games to a lot more people. I understand that we're adding this to a live game and that is the real issue here.

Smed

Isnt enough to say that you hide your choices from your customers because you new that they were bad, i.e. did not have the welfare of the customers at heart?  Eq2 is being driven into the ground and now you want to squeeze out the last penny before the lights are turned off.

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Old 12-09-2008, 10:01 PM   #38
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Nice Rip-Off SoE:

All non US players will be getting worked hardcore on the exchange rate.  Here is an correct example~

SOE Forex Forecast: 1 USD = 1 Euro...  The truth:

1.00 EUR

=

1.29327 USD

Euro United States Dollars
1 EUR = 1.29327 USD 1 USD = 0.773232 EUR

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Old 12-09-2008, 10:02 PM   #39
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TheSpin wrote:

I would much rather pay a little more each month, remove station cash, and replace it with quests that give access to things that are planned to be available on station cash.

The thing that really bothers me is that the limited resources EQ2 already has are now being spent on designing items for station cash rather than on things that actually improve the game that I already pay for.   I pay 15 dollars a month gladly because I feel like a little bit of my 15 dollars is going towards making a better game.  Now I have to wonder if my 15 dollars will be going towards developing armor with a cool graphic that will only be available on station cash.

Well said. I agree with every single thing this person just said.

And I would absolutely pay a higher subscription fee if that is what the Everquest II team needs in order to bring me the kind of quality gameplay and caliber content that they have been -- and that I have come to expect.

All you had to do was ask. I'll bet more people feel the same way than you might think.

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Old 12-09-2008, 10:02 PM   #40
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So when do we quit paying a subscription fee?  The game should be free now since we have micro-transactions.  So what date do the free subscriptions begin?

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Old 12-09-2008, 10:05 PM   #41
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GrunEQ wrote:

So when do we quit paying a subscription fee?  The game should be free now since we have micro-transactions.  So what date do the free subscriptions begin?

It wont happen of course but this move now makes EQ2 nothing more than a glorfied asian MMO where these sorts of transactions are common place..nothing wrong with that of course if thats your thing but they should do away with the subscription fee but as i say it wont happen.

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Old 12-09-2008, 10:12 PM   #42
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Smed wrote:

Banditman wrote:

*snipped*

2.  The items remain fluff, and the revenue generated from this allows SOE to add more developers to the team, thus enhancing my enjoyment of the game.  I continue to vote with my dollars by remaining a customer, and not giving a crap if the dude standing over there has glowy red crap around his hands.

Our intention is certainly #2.

Everyone should realize that we love making great games here at SOE, and everyday we come to work and get to make great games. *snipped*

Smed

*shrug* As long as they are fluff, meaning for visual fun only, it's all good to me.  But, I totally realise how easy this could go the other way, despite your assentations to the contrary.   LoN has done a nice job of nearly blowing that idea out of the water. 

Before the Harvesting Signature Quest, the only way to get Featherfall was to be a "Bug", Raid or Play/Trade LoN.  There are the same extra bonus AA, TS, Combat and even a Guild Exp items in LoN, as well.  They had the best looking House items we'd seen ..  till someone bonked a few peoples heads together and started giving us better looking items in-game.  Then there are those "uber" mounts that people are trying to trade for upwards of $200 worth of cards for.  *sigh* And, that doesn't even cover all the little things that constantly step on the toes of "class ability or uniqueness".   ...

Like I said, I have no problem with people buying visual fun.  I'd probably partake of a few items, myself, assuming they get something I actually like in the Marketplace.  I bought a few Packs for LoN and took them to trade for the Food/Wine Carts, as a B-day gift for myself earlier this year.  And, though I have tried to play the LoN game itself .. I am a total failure at it.  I win sometimes but I have no clue on how I did it and I lose when I think I should have won.   *shrug*  ...

Back to this problem .. there are plenty of opportunities for use of this system.  For one thing, if I had had a choice of farming the living crap out of those Void Storms for the live event prior to TSO or just paying a few bucks for what I wanted, which was just visual armor for all my characters, I would have SOO chose the paying money for it option.  After the 10th - 80th storm I was cussing up a storm and wishing I had a Live Event Dev in my Office to Strangle!!   Farming is not my idea of fun in any sense of the word.   So, if we have an option to buy those bloody "tokens" the Live Event teams is so fond of lately, that might be a good way to use this system.  We still can farm them or even half of them but a buy-out option would be nice, imo.  

Cracking the whip over the Coders to put in place a way to have Appearance Weapons, Shield, Bows and Mounts would be another way to keep this from being game breaking.   Put in way to buy Unique (meaning not borrowing from Epic weapon graphics!!) Grapics for those items and letting us buy them for purely visual fun would be a major draw for a lot of players.

I'd really like to stay away from too many House Items as this is a major reward to myself as well as many others, not to mention as being the whole point of a whole Class in game, the Carpenter.   But, Fluff pets or even house pets are fair game. Though, 1 house item wouldn't be too bad .. [Mounted Fae Trophy] .. Make her say she's sorry for being a bad girl when poked.   *evil grin*  .. err .. where was I ?  ...  Oh, yeah ...  I'd really not want the only way to get cool looking House items to be only available in this little add on without there being a drastic price cut in our monthly fees!  

Actually, I'd like a cut in my monthly fees, anyway.  I think I'm going to have to give up a few of my accounts soon.  I already dropped them down from Station Access but this "game" is begining to be a money blackhole.   (4) accts adds up, over time.  *cringe* I've purposely avoided looking up the SOE category in my accounting program to see how much I have spent over the years.  I'm sure I could've bought a nice car with it .. in cash.      

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Old 12-09-2008, 10:15 PM   #43
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Wow....... Sony what are you doing??? Why are you doing this?

I agree with GrunEQ, if you guys wanna make an item shop, make EQ2 F2P, as that's what all F2Ps do. I thought RMT was only going on the Station Exchange enabled servers? Now what is this??

The greed here is astonishing. We're already paying for a MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION.

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Old 12-09-2008, 10:18 PM   #44
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Smed, you're totally wrong. People don't want to play MMOs where real money will equal in-game success or even uniqueness. You're taking away a level playing field and giving people with a lot if disposable income an edge over people who are creative and have the time to play MMOs. At worst, your making a time addiction into a spending addiction. Is that really a path you want to go down? Well probably, since money seems to be all $OE cares about.

I would gladly pay 30, 40, or even 50 dollars a month for a quality MMO where developers actually listened to their player base and didn't jump off on half-baked assumptions. Looks at the MMO forums anywhere, and you'll see page after page of people crying out against RMT. Choose if you want to believe that forum users are the minority, but that attitude has not served you or your products well in the past.

As it stands over the last few years, no MMO has even come close to offering the features that would really make a truly great MMO. Many people on these forums could design (though certainly not implement) an MMO that would put all existing MMOs to shame. But instead, developers decide for players what they want, and then they lose hundreds of thousands of initial subscribers because they didn't listen to the player base.

EQ 2 was the last game on your Sation Access line-up that had any real quality to it. It had taken some time, but you finally got it to a good place. It was never going to be a bombshell, but it had a fantastic reputation as being one of, if not the best, PVE MMO on the market. Now with one fell swoop, you've ruined that reputation. News spreads fast, and now your going to lose subs again.

Clearly you didn't learn from SWG. The players tried to tell you that the NGE was a mistake, but you and your mods gave all of us the finger and banned many people providing real feedback. Now SWG is in a sorry state, and the new Star Wars game will be the deathblow.

Bottom line, you've misread the community. We WANT to pay subscription fees, but we NEED a solid game with short term incentives and long term rewards.Your not giving us either.

SOE needs to go a completely different route, and they need to dismiss you to do it. You've made too many people angry and fostered a reputation that has no doubt cost SOE millions of dollars in lost subscription fees. How you haven't resigned in shame at your failures goes beyond my understanding.

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Old 12-09-2008, 10:30 PM   #45
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Dear Smed,

Raiding guilds who can level or gain AAs more quickly to start an expansion can then start raiding content (or progressing through it) more quickly than other guilds, which effectively gives them a gear advantage.  Assuming next expansion raises the level cap, if a guild uses 50% experience potions, they might get their members to raiding level a week or two before guilds who do not use those potions are able to begin raiding next expansion.  That extra week or two of raiding allows them to gear up more quickly and could ultimately affect which guilds learn contested mobs first. 

That is not "fluff."

Please remove experience potions from the SC Marketplace and limit it to items that do not give players any sort of competitive advantage.

Thanks

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Old 12-09-2008, 10:41 PM   #46
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One interesting little thought of side effect of this - people are going to think a lot longer before they pass their logon to other members of their guild......

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Old 12-09-2008, 10:45 PM   #47
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GrunEQ wrote:

So when do we quit paying a subscription fee?  The game should be free now since we have micro-transactions.  So what date do the free subscriptions begin?

When you have to buy items via microtransactions to actually advance your character. Want to get your epic? That's a couple of bucks to start it. Want your mythical version?  It's a few dollars more. That's when you get rid of subscriptions. Of course, that's not what is being proposed, so subscriptions will stay, and SOE's revenue will be bolstered by a new revenue stream.

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Old 12-09-2008, 10:48 PM   #48
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Smed wrote:

Banditman wrote:

There are two possibly results of this:

1.  The items turn into less than fluff, and become a "surcharge" for playing the game.  In this case, I'll vote with my dollars and go elsewhere.  There are a number of games out there that would love my business and don't require any sort of "surcharge" for play aside from the monthly fee.

2.  The items remain fluff, and the revenue generated from this allows SOE to add more developers to the team, thus enhancing my enjoyment of the game.  I continue to vote with my dollars by remaining a customer, and not giving a crap if the dude standing over there has glowy red crap around his hands.

The second these items become more than fluff items, SOE loses my respect and my patronage.

Our intention is certainly #2.

Everyone should realize that we love making great games here at SOE, and everyday we come to work and get to make great games. But we also have the business side of things to consider. I personally use microtransactions in other games. Magic Online for example and I play a lot of casual stuff. I'm also a heavy Battlefield 2 player and plan on playing Battlefield Heroes. That's going to be a microtransaction game... and I will absolutely pay money.. quite happily. But both of those games were designed with microtransactions in mind.

Now personally I would not choose to buy items in an MMORPG because earning them is part of what's fun about playing them in the first place. I do not consider that a "grind". However I know a LOT of people that disagree with that statement and regularly buy gold in many games.

So in the end it comes down to personal choice. I completely respect the opinion that this is a slippery slope on the road to a dark place. I believe in the end this is going to be a giant non-issue because you will see this more and more as time goes on in many games from many companies and I also think that if we handle it right and make sure we don't unbalance the game.. everyone can be happy.

I just saw a great post on shacknews about how the new Star Wars MMO is going to be microtransaction based.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/56292

To me that's exciting.. even if I don't ever buy a single thing. It's exciting because it opens up new possibilities for us as an industry. I also think that we as players are going to be presented with different ways to pay for games like this.

For example.. would you like a game where you didn't have to pay a subscription fee at all? I believe that with microtransactions that is likely to happen. A small percentage of the players will spend a dramatic amount of money and could literally give a lot of "free" gameplay to a lot of other people.. thereby opening up online games to a lot more people. I understand that we're adding this to a live game and that is the real issue here.

Smed

Smed, you need to undertand that Games like BFHeros isnt a pay to play game, we pay a monthly fee for balance and equal oppertunity gameplay. We pay fees for a support team that takes care of exploits, and RMT farms, we certainly don't pay to build the farm. I personally feel that SOE has 'once again' lost touch with its majority player base and intends to capitolize on the few that are willing to pay through content. How can we expect the quality of content and balance/pace we have become familiar with if you impliment a boost in advancement by 50% for players who are content with paying thru the content.

To be totally honest, many others and myself feel we have no choice but to move on from EQ and EQ2 in hopes of finding a game that offers every player the same oppertunity for advancement.

My Question to you is: What was the original vision for the MMORPG you fell in love with 10 years ago? What is it now?

I fear the answer is what we call "Selling out,"

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Old 12-09-2008, 11:09 PM   #49
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Dasein wrote:

GrunEQ wrote:

So when do we quit paying a subscription fee?  The game should be free now since we have micro-transactions.  So what date do the free subscriptions begin?

When you have to buy items via microtransactions to actually advance your character. Want to get your epic? That's a couple of bucks to start it. Want your mythical version?  It's a few dollars more. That's when you get rid of subscriptions. Of course, that's not what is being proposed, so subscriptions will stay, and SOE's revenue will be bolstered by a new revenue stream.

What you say of course is true..but its only a matter of time before it happens mark my words,fluff it is now but within a year or two you'll be able to buy pretty much anything you want.

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Old 12-09-2008, 11:17 PM   #50
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Wow i never knew so many drama queens played Everquest.  Although i can at least understand where some people are coming from as far as the experience potions are concerned, it is really quite silly to actually get upset about.  It costs 10 bucks for a 2 hour 50% increase to achievement xp.  This is about the amount of time it takes to run 2 instances and get approximately 1-1.5 AA's.. so for 10 bucks you can get 1.5-2.25 AA's.  Now assuming you can get 1 full AA per experience potion all the way from 140-200 (which is pretty generous) it would take 300 dollars (30 aa xp potions at 10 bucks a pop) to ensure you got the full 50% bonus.  So, by this logic we assume it takes 60 hours to go from 140-200 without a bonus, and 40 hours for someone with the bonus.  Now a whole guild of 24 people needs to do this and they gain 20 hours on a guild that is not using the bonus potions.  Now tell me that is really going to matter. 

Even if you assume it takes longer amounts of time you need to increase the amount of money a person is willing to spend.  If its 120 hours then someone must spend 600 dollars and they'd gain 40 hours... even play 4 hours a day you'd gain a week of AA grinding over another guild?  And the majority of the players in that guild are goign to pay 600 bucks to get a week ahead of others?  Give me a break!

This change is interesting.. nothing in it appeals to me right now but the people that gripe about it, please.. just stop and log into the game and realize that its no different then it was yesterday.  I still had a blast running a few instances today and even if i knew for a fact that another group did the same instance and got 2 AA's instead of the 1.5 AA's that i got.. that does not diminish the fun i had because they had to pay money to do it! 

For those that are afraid that they will start introducing gamebreaking items into the station store, well i agree that would indeed cause imbalance and i'd be quite upset as soon as i noticed it was affecting my enjoyment of the game, but that is simply not a reality at this point.  They have promised to introduce only items that will not cause imbalance and whether you believe it or not, RIGHT NOW that is what they have done and nothing about the game should be less enjoyable. 

People should leave their constructive feedback, but all this crying is getting old.  See how this new feature affects your gameplay and then leave some input.

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Old 12-09-2008, 11:20 PM   #51
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Oh and for feedback, the only thing i dislike so far about it (as i am indifferent to everything else) is that it is my understanding that you simply click a button and your credit card is charged?  It automatically takes credit information from our station account?  I don't like this feature and feel credit information should have to be entered the first time and could then be saved for future purchases if the cardholder so desires.

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Old 12-09-2008, 11:29 PM   #52
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You have to enter your three digit credit card ID number to verify the transaction, it's not automatic. So someone would have to actually have your card, or know the number, to complete the transaction.

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Old 12-09-2008, 11:33 PM   #53
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Ahh well that answers that, thanks amise =)

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Old 12-09-2008, 11:58 PM   #54
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Smed wrote:

To me that's exciting.. even if I don't ever buy a single thing. It's exciting because it opens up new possibilities for us as an industry. I also think that we as players are going to be presented with different ways to pay for games like this.

Of course its exciting to you, as an executive who stands to reap more financial reward with little to no cost of implementation.  Its not quite as exciting for some long-time fans of these games.

To me, its an example of how you folks are always looking to the customers you wish you had instead of the ones you do have.  Kind of like the NGE, which I'll wager you also found exciting at the time.

Nice backpedal on the quote too, don't want to split hairs, indeed.  Lol.

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Old 12-10-2008, 12:26 AM   #55
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Smed wrote:

To put it simply - I absolutely said that, and stand by it. Allowing RMT transactions (i.e. player to player sales) is not happening on the non Live Gamer servers. That was specifically what was being discussed. I guess I can see how that quote can be taken out of context, but the truth is that discussion was specifically around when we launched Station Exchange and that is what I meant. I consider RMT to be player to player stuff and what we're doing here to be microtransactions because we are directly selling things. But I certainly don't mean to split hairs.

 I don't think that changes the fact that us adding this is a move that not everyone is going to be happy with. I think we're being careful to make sure nothing is game imbalancing. We aren't trying to put things in here that people "have to have". The idea was fun and convienence. Level up an alt quicker.. that kind of thing.

Is this a slippery slope? I don't think so but only because you the players will simply not let it ever be a slippery slope.

We intend to do a lot of cool stuff with Station Cash. I just posted in my blog with some of the future plans. i would only ask that you please see how it's going to be used and see what you think after a few days or weeks.

Here's a link to the blog

http://stationblog.wordpress.com/

Smed

Although you state your intentions to be pure, you lost all credibility when you decided to announce this after the expansion, knowing full well that a group of people would not have purchased it with this system in place.

You also seem to not understand that the development and implimentation of this system has detracted from your limited manpower and financial resources that the players feel would be much better utilized into fixing inadaquate raid zones, horrible itemization, several broken items, raid zones that utilize the same graphics as instanced content, etc...

Like all businesses, resources are finite and there is an inherant tradeoff. In order to focus on one thing, you take away from something else. If you say that the coders for this system weren't the development staff, I say the money you paid them could have been better utililzed to fix what is already there.

The players see this, and in turn, some people can buy house items, and they say to themselves [Removed for Content].

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Old 12-10-2008, 12:40 AM   #56
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Slowin wrote:

Wow i never knew so many drama queens played Everquest.  Although i can at least understand where some people are coming from as far as the experience potions are concerned, it is really quite silly to actually get upset about.  It costs 10 bucks for a 2 hour 50% increase to achievement xp.  This is about the amount of time it takes to run 2 instances and get approximately 1-1.5 AA's.. so for 10 bucks you can get 1.5-2.25 AA's.  Now assuming you can get 1 full AA per experience potion all the way from 140-200 (which is pretty generous) it would take 300 dollars (30 aa xp potions at 10 bucks a pop) to ensure you got the full 50% bonus.  So, by this logic we assume it takes 60 hours to go from 140-200 without a bonus, and 40 hours for someone with the bonus.  Now a whole guild of 24 people needs to do this and they gain 20 hours on a guild that is not using the bonus potions.  Now tell me that is really going to matter. 

Even if you assume it takes longer amounts of time you need to increase the amount of money a person is willing to spend.  If its 120 hours then someone must spend 600 dollars and they'd gain 40 hours... even play 4 hours a day you'd gain a week of AA grinding over another guild?  And the majority of the players in that guild are goign to pay 600 bucks to get a week ahead of others?  Give me a break!

This change is interesting.. nothing in it appeals to me right now but the people that gripe about it, please.. just stop and log into the game and realize that its no different then it was yesterday.  I still had a blast running a few instances today and even if i knew for a fact that another group did the same instance and got 2 AA's instead of the 1.5 AA's that i got.. that does not diminish the fun i had because they had to pay money to do it! 

For those that are afraid that they will start introducing gamebreaking items into the station store, well i agree that would indeed cause imbalance and i'd be quite upset as soon as i noticed it was affecting my enjoyment of the game, but that is simply not a reality at this point.  They have promised to introduce only items that will not cause imbalance and whether you believe it or not, RIGHT NOW that is what they have done and nothing about the game should be less enjoyable. 

People should leave their constructive feedback, but all this crying is getting old.  See how this new feature affects your gameplay and then leave some input.

Well said.  My only real gripe about the station cash is that you get too little for your money.

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Old 12-10-2008, 12:52 AM   #57
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HOW STUPID IS STUPID?   Look up STUPID In the Dictionary and you will find the name of the bean counting money grubbing ***** that came up with this idea!  

Ok I am a Pure Heart player.  I even hate the LoN stuff but that was tiny.  NOW not only will my Raid leader want me to have POT's and dispersion armor but now he will want me to have my stuff that I have to pay cash for?    Look I am tight on money and purchase a year at a time to save the cash and keep playing with friends now people who are rich or spoiled have an advantage over me?   HOW FREAKING BAD OFF ARE YOUR GUYS?   THINK ABOUT IT!   Now I won't be able to do the biggest mobs on raids because I don't have the buff they want me to pay cash for?  

YOU PROMISED!   PROMISED!  PROMISED! you would  never do anything like this on MY server.   LIARS!

ANYONE A LAWYER MONITOR THESE FORUMS?   IS there a legal way we can stop this?   Due to the way they promised and stated over and over make  a verbal contract or not? 

I have many months left on my account and just renewed my wifes yearly account.   YOU STOLE MY FUN.   I said I would never go to WoW but now after I run my account out I WILL.    I will run my toon just to tie up your memory and processing and cost YOU money! BUT when renewal comes around I am gone unless you turn this off.

FYI Smed,

I love the work you have done but no matter what you say about business you are not going to change my mind nor should it anyone elses. 

Concider this the most profitable section SOE has is this section the mmo's.   They have made bad mistakes already with SWG overhauls,  Planetside (Lack of continuation and development to a second phase.) Purchasing a dieing game that was over graphic intensive with less content than it needed and other ventures.  It has however succeeded in EQII and continuation of EQ1.    SOE upper management is trying to compair EQII to WoW's success and unless you can make gold from lead your not going to to pull those numbers for a long time now that the user base is entrenched in the game.   Punishing us by making us purchase stuff is not fair and not right.  The in effect changes the monthly charges by whatever amount you are willing to spend in real cash so your are not in effect using $14.99 as a bate and switch tactic that I intend to make the Attorney General aware of in the state of Ohio.    I don't know if it is illegal or not but maybe a law would not hurt to change your greedy tactics.  

New game coming online that is supposedly free.  YUP FREEREALM.....   Wonder how not so FREE the game really is going to be.  

In stead of purchasing dieing games come up with some good ideas and stop letting the upper money management drive the show as long as you produce a profit the idiot investors will like it.

GOT A GREAT! IDEA FROM THAT>     I am going to go the yahoo forums and post a link to this crap and how the people hate it so they can decide if the users are going to quit then its not profitable.  A person who makes a million or more a year can not in any idea know how bad just $5.00 hurts when your making less in a year than the person making the money makes in a week.

Think Smed,,,   THINK ABOUT IT!    I think its time some of your team should stand up and jump ship if they don't change this or this may end your career as the person associated with this idea.  Please I like you too much for that to happen.

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Old 12-10-2008, 12:56 AM   #58
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For those who are saying it is no big deal now should WAIT!  Drama queens my ****.   If this is let to go then the next patch will include more then the next.   Finally all the people who were against the idea are gone from the game and from the SOE ranks and the awesome game is doomed.  

SO if you hate what I said so be it.   You obviously have the cash and or lack of how business works.   IF people UNITE and not purchase everything it FAILS.  If people buy even a little then SOE wins.   

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Old 12-10-2008, 01:12 AM   #59
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RIP the EQ2 we knew and loved. I don't agree that this is the start of a slippery slope, that point was passed some time ago, and where we now seem to be is a place beyond redemption, where the powers-that-be are intent on making this just another crummy MMO, instead of the special place it was.

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Old 12-10-2008, 01:38 AM   #60
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There certainly are a lot of pessimistic and doomsday players in this game. The kneejerk reactions of vocal players ranting in chat channels and on forums do more to hurt this game than the company does, average players panic and cancel accounts because people who sound like they know what they're talking about are spreading it all over the channels and are predicting end times ahead! Nothing in this addition to the game is game breaking, nothing in there is even close to it.  

They are NOT selling stat armor, weapons, masters, platinum, levels or characters. That is on the Exchange servers and that is where it will stay. But if you think people on your non-exchange server arent buying that stuff from the plat sellers or on e-bay you've got blinders on. What the market is selling (all of it NO-TRADE) is some measely potions, some appearance armor (which I wasnt impressed with by the way - especially since it's appearance stuff, I expected something that has the name seafury buccaneer in it to look more...buckaneerish) and some pets - house and casted neither of which have stats or reduce status costs. So what? Will they add new stuff to the market? Certainly they will. But it will be more appearance armor, more house pets and maybe we'll see some of those "snap-on" appearance changes they talked about doing instead of the skeletal revamp. How about those server transfers Smed mentioned in his blog, or perhaps adding the station player add-ons into the market (he didnt mention that, it's something that occured to me) and making game services self-contained and managable from within the game, within convenient reach of all players (like the ones who aren't very savvy about finding these services externally) but absolutely NOT neccessary in order to play the game.

Did anyone read Smed's blog that he linked? Did anyone perhaps catch the reference to surveys...such as the one they implimented in game recently? The one that everyone has had plenty of time to fill out? The one they've been advertising in the message of the day and the latest news on the patcher? I dont recall all of the questions on the survey but when I think of it I do think something about this type of system was in the survey, including questions about LoN. Some of you are saying the majority of players dont like LoN, I think you're probably incorrect and I think the survey results have probably told them that. Has LoN hurt anything? Really? No. Do I think this system is going to hurt anything? No I dont. While it's still early in implementation I do believe the development team would be adamantly against anything like what many of you fear will happen. They play this game too, you dont know who they are, they could be in your guild, and they play this game just the same as you do, they dont want it to be destroyed anymore than you do, in fact, probably even less than you do because then they'd be out of jobs.

Like every big change or new addition to this game there have been loud vocal outcries saying that this or that will suffer and everytime they've been silenced because time proves them wrong. So I'm going to take this on faith, I'm going to sit back and see what happens. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by what doesnt happen.

Now ask me if I think they should have sprung this on us like they did. The answer to that would be a big fat NO. It should have been announced, plans for it discussed in depth in interviews and then introduced to the test server first for a trial run. So yes I think the handling of this was very poorly done. But I dont think the market system itself is anything to be concerned about and who knows, if it does well and there's enough revenue from it then maybe they can suspend subscription fees to EQ and EQ2 like was mentioned (which should have the effect of lowering the cost of Station Access fees for the rest of the Station Access games and if it doesnt I'll certainly be asking why since the addition of Vanguard to the line-up raised the cost - removing one or two premium subscriptions from it should lower it).

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