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Old 08-26-2012, 10:33 AM   #31
latesttoon

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i didn't expect to get support from novice pvp clerics lol

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Old 08-26-2012, 12:03 PM   #32
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latesttoon wrote:

i didn't expect to get support from novice pvp clerics lol

PvP versus clerics better.

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Old 08-26-2012, 05:46 PM   #33
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latesttoon wrote:

i didn't expect to get support from novice pvp clerics lol

I'm pretty sure you arent getting any support from any class pvp or otherwise...thats what happens when you play the boy who cried exploit without substantial information to back it up.

PS, of the 4 names u listed as yours both acolas/acoloss are non existent, vaco is a lvl 1 troub and soloca is a 90 defiler according to eq2u(I can assume you prob have more alts that are not listed and have opted out of allowing your whole account to be seen).  As someone with a highend healer your complete and utter lack of understanding of global mechanics is appalling...especially considering the same effect that clerics will get prior to being engaged in pvp with DG can be said of shaman wards, druid hots (insert any class here).  But hey keep believing you know more then the people who actually play the classes you get beaten by.

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Old 08-26-2012, 05:54 PM   #34
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[email protected] wrote:

latesttoon wrote:

i didn't expect to get support from novice pvp clerics lol

I'm pretty sure you arent getting any support from any class pvp or otherwise...thats what happens when you play the boy who cried exploit without substantial information to back it up.

PS, of the 4 names u listed as yours both acolas/acoloss are non existent, vaco is a lvl 1 troub and soloca is a 90 defiler according to eq2u(I can assume you prob have more alts that are not listed and have opted out of allowing your whole account to be seen).  As someone with a highend healer your complete and utter lack of understanding of global mechanics is appalling...especially considering the same effect that clerics will get prior to being engaged in pvp with DG can be said of shaman wards, druid hots (insert any class here).  But hey keep believing you know more then the people who actually play the classes you get beaten by.

wow, you still don't even understand after all this?

Here was the PVP update for Qeynos Rises

Divine Guidance now has a max trigger count of 10 when cast in PVP combat.

If you actually pvp'd, maybe you would know what this was all about... it seems it''s your lack of understanding that is the problem here .. i apologise for not being more clear, i assumed for a short while that you actually did understand pvp mechanics.

 

p.s. what has who i am got to do with the price of fish? you asked who i play, i told you

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Old 08-26-2012, 06:29 PM   #35
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latesttoon wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

latesttoon wrote:

i didn't expect to get support from novice pvp clerics lol

I'm pretty sure you arent getting any support from any class pvp or otherwise...thats what happens when you play the boy who cried exploit without substantial information to back it up.

PS, of the 4 names u listed as yours both acolas/acoloss are non existent, vaco is a lvl 1 troub and soloca is a 90 defiler according to eq2u(I can assume you prob have more alts that are not listed and have opted out of allowing your whole account to be seen).  As someone with a highend healer your complete and utter lack of understanding of global mechanics is appalling...especially considering the same effect that clerics will get prior to being engaged in pvp with DG can be said of shaman wards, druid hots (insert any class here).  But hey keep believing you know more then the people who actually play the classes you get beaten by.

wow, you still don't even understand after all this?

Here was the PVP update for Qeynos Rises

Divine Guidance now has a max trigger count of 10 when cast in PVP combat.

Has no consequence what so ever since your complaining that the DG in question was popped prior to pvp combat and fell under pve mechanics.

If you actually pvp'd, maybe you would know what this was all about... it seems it''s your lack of understanding that is the problem here .. i apologise for not being more clear, i assumed for a short while that you actually did understand pvp mechanics.

You seriously have no clue do you?

 p.s. what has who i am got to do with the price of fish? you asked who i play, i told you

And I simply pointed out of the 4 you have one being a 90 defiler you should actually be familir with both pve and pvp mechanics and how they interact...but I guess you had that shaman power leveled cause your lack of understanding of even basic pvp/pve mechanics shows.  BTW just because you have a toon in the fishermen doesnt make automatically make you some pvp master.

Actually its you that seems to have a severe memory leak here.....as you explained in your initial post 1) you and your group ran into another group in pvp however prior to anyone in either group actually being put into combat (if I have to explain to you that mechanic than you really are totally clueless) the other group temped up (their cleric popping DG) since neither group was engaged yet in pvp combat both groups temps are still under the effect of pve ruleset.  2) When pvp combat is engaged any temps that were popped while not engaged in pvp and are still up fall under pve mechanics not pvp.  Any new temps/heals/etc popped after group is engaged will fall under the pvp merchanics.

What you are wanting which tbh would mean a serious rewrite to the game mechanics code would be any temps popped prior to pvp engagement and falling into pve mechaincs would immediately revert to pvp mechanics once pvp is engaged.  Aside from the major headaches the devs would have trying to come up with a correct formula for the converting the current temps that were up to pvp mechainics.

Do you even play the same game everyone else does?

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Old 08-26-2012, 08:25 PM   #36
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no, everything you say makes no sense or is irrelevant/incomparable to to the problem I hav described. it's also like you have some sort of inferiority complex by the type of attiude you have.. i have read about this and you fit this catogery perfectly.

stick to the problem, answer:

Everytime you do gears, you pop DG when you jump off the ledge right (obviously you do or would).. and you think that's fair when you come up against a team that doesn't have it, or doesn't know to use the loop hole, or doesn't choose too?

just an example

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Old 08-26-2012, 10:14 PM   #37
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I get what your saying, but the same thing can be said for pretty much every single temp buff in eq2, I even think it should not work how it currently does with pve value working once in pvp content but none of the ideas you have come up with are acceptable for pve purposes.

The only change that could be made without causing pve issues is if all abilities changed between pve and pvp values upon inc/out going dmg and not when the ability was first used.

Your only option right now is to engage the cleric before he can use it, which you already know, chances are the cleric is dumb and has already stakced reactives on themselves or chilling on someone else so just look for those, maybe you know that too idk just trying to give you guys some workarounds that wont take soe 6 months to figure out that its a problem.

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Old 08-26-2012, 11:52 PM   #38
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thanks for being civilized

i know there are other temps that will work in a similar pre-pvp-engage way, but they aren't really as game changing (unless i'm missing some)

hopefully the devs will continue to fix the few pvp problems that are left after the "Great PvP" update

i'm sure they could change "one spell" without changing the whole mechanics across the board. like:

"If attacked in PVP combat, DG will reset and have 10 triggers".. can't be impossible

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Old 08-27-2012, 02:48 AM   #39
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latesttoon wrote:

thanks for being civilized

 Actually pretty much everyone was civilized until you basically called everyone who disagreed with you not up to your level of pvp skill.  A level btw which few know of.

i know there are other temps that will work in a similar pre-pvp-engage way, but they aren't really as game changing (unless i'm missing some)

hopefully the devs will continue to fix the few pvp problems that are left after the "Great PvP" update

 First as your title suggests you called this an exploit and no matter who calmly explained it was a mechanic thats been in game for some time you would hear none of it.  After your exploit argument fell flat on its face you started calling it a cheat again same thing happened.  Now you have evolved to calling it a problem..well at least your evolving but still miss the mark by alot.

i'm sure they could change "one spell" without changing the whole mechanics across the board. like:

"If attacked in PVP combat, DG will reset and have 10 triggers".. can't be impossible

Why does this mechanic need changing again? Oh thats right you blindly ran straight into another group who was sharper on getting their temps up then yours was and beat your group.  So basically your looking to nerf a global mechanic for no other reason than you could not 3 button the members of the other group until DG came down.

This mechanic with specifically DG has been in game for quite some time and yet you are the only person looking for a specific global mechanics nerf...could the devs do it probably but since your whole argument has crashed and burned already I highly doubt they'd waste valuable dev time just to appease one dps player who blindly ran in and lost in pvp.

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Old 08-27-2012, 04:20 AM   #40
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Well, not even sure why I am posting in this thread, but whatever, I wanted to explain something. One of the main reasons why existing temporary buffs cast outside of PvP combat continue to use PvE durations after PvP combat has started has to do with open world pvp. In open world pvp, if one group is engaged while fighting pve content, if all their existing buffs instantly followed pvp rules, it would give way too large of an advantage to the attacking players verse the attacked players. While this may make more sense for open world pvp, and not soo much for battle grounds, they both use the same pvp combat rules, and would simply be too much work for developers to make a special pvp rule set for only bg's.

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Old 08-27-2012, 09:37 AM   #41
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[email protected] wrote:

latesttoon wrote:

thanks for being civilized

 Actually pretty much everyone was civilized until you basically called everyone who disagreed with you not up to your level of pvp skill.  A level btw which few know of.

i know there are other temps that will work in a similar pre-pvp-engage way, but they aren't really as game changing (unless i'm missing some)

hopefully the devs will continue to fix the few pvp problems that are left after the "Great PvP" update

 First as your title suggests you called this an exploit and no matter who calmly explained it was a mechanic thats been in game for some time you would hear none of it.  After your exploit argument fell flat on its face you started calling it a cheat again same thing happened.  Now you have evolved to calling it a problem..well at least your evolving but still miss the mark by alot.

i'm sure they could change "one spell" without changing the whole mechanics across the board. like:

"If attacked in PVP combat, DG will reset and have 10 triggers".. can't be impossible

Why does this mechanic need changing again? Oh thats right you blindly ran straight into another group who was sharper on getting their temps up then yours was and beat your group.  So basically your looking to nerf a global mechanic for no other reason than you could not 3 button the members of the other group until DG came down.

This mechanic with specifically DG has been in game for quite some time and yet you are the only person looking for a specific global mechanics nerf...could the devs do it probably but since your whole argument has crashed and burned already I highly doubt they'd waste valuable dev time just to appease one dps player who blindly ran in and lost in pvp.

i'm sorry but everything you say is completely wrong  

to top it off, everything you say is irrelevant to the problem at hand, you seem to be getting madder and madder, you might blow up soon.. this is really interesting that you have this sort of problem, i think i will use you as an example for my psychology thesis..

you still never answered the BG question

 First as your title suggests you called this an exploit and no matter who calmly explained it was a mechanic thats been in game for some time you would hear none of it.  After your exploit argument fell flat on its face you started calling it a cheat again same thing happened.  Now you have evolved to calling it a problem..well at least your evolving but still miss the mark by alot.

whether you call it an exploit or a problem doesn't matter, you are arguing over this like as if you are a 5 year old child, and not discussing the problem at hand? ... this is really interesting (your mental difficulties), but just so you don't go crazy i will help you with some clarification, before ignoring all your strange social interactive problems:

in my first post (and line) i stated "example of exploit (although maybe a strong word)"

The reason i wrote exploit was to get peoples attention, which has worked.. at the begining of the conversation before other clerics jumped on the bandwagon i stated "ok.. it's not really an exploit.. but it is an important problem that needs to be fixed. "

in your first post you stated in reply to the issue i brought to you

DG used to be pretty powerful in pvp now after 2 successful nerfs its meh

as your understanding of the game is pretty terrible, we can see here that if it was nerfed a thousand times, it doesn't really matter, because the core problem here is it makes no difference to the PVP nerf, as it is working as it should for PVE.. can you see now how little you understand the concepts of pvp game mechanics and most probably reality itself? Even by the end you still didn't understand the problem.

here, let me tell you again -- Divine Guidance has been reduced to 10 trigger chances in PVP, when it is used not in pvp combat it lasts the full duration + has infinite triggers. This is an unfair advantage in PVP, if you think it isn't then you are delusional.

Why does this mechanic need changing again? Oh thats right you blindly ran straight into another group who was sharper on getting their temps up then yours was and beat your group.  So basically your looking to nerf a global mechanic for no other reason than you could not 3 button the members of the other group until DG came down.

never happened i'm afraid.. the reason is that i want fair pvp --- i'm pretty sure that we could destroy any group you could make (with you healing) with my group, and you can use DG before entering combat and we won't. I'm more worried about in 2 months time when we actually fight people that are good, in fair fights.

This mechanic with specifically DG has been in game for quite some time and yet you are the only person looking for a specific global mechanics nerf...could the devs do it probably but since your whole argument has crashed and burned already I highly doubt they'd waste valuable dev time just to appease one dps player who blindly ran in and lost in pvp.

you simply have no idea do you

from now on, i'm going to call you special.

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Old 08-27-2012, 09:39 AM   #42
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Hennyo wrote:

Well, not even sure why I am posting in this thread, but whatever, I wanted to explain something. One of the main reasons why existing temporary buffs cast outside of PvP combat continue to use PvE durations after PvP combat has started has to do with open world pvp. In open world pvp, if one group is engaged while fighting pve content, if all their existing buffs instantly followed pvp rules, it would give way too large of an advantage to the attacking players verse the attacked players. While this may make more sense for open world pvp, and not soo much for battle grounds, they both use the same pvp combat rules, and would simply be too much work for developers to make a special pvp rule set for only bg's.

do you know how much contested content there is now at 92?

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Old 08-27-2012, 11:29 AM   #43
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I'm inclined to agree with latesttoon. This needs to be fixed asap.
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:06 PM   #44
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 Working as intended... Any good healer knows to preward, use hots, use reactives before combat starts. So definately not an exploit just a game mechanic that has allways been there. Try to adjust and enjoy the game.

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Old 08-27-2012, 12:20 PM   #45
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Here is the thing. Basically if left as is, cleric is a must in a pvp group because if one has one group has one and the other doesnt, the cleric group gets 30+ seconds to burn the other group while the other groups heals have to click more than 1 prebuff. If the buff didnt last so long with all the AAs it wouldnt be as bad as it is now.
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:24 PM   #46
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Not an exploit, but expect a "fix" now that attention has been focused on it. 

 I personally think the nerf to DG should have gone along the lines of reducing the heal amount instead of limiting the triggers, but maybe thats just me.  

DPS is so crazy in a good stacked group that abilities like DG make you have to strategize, which is a good thing imo.  Plus it provides the illusion of being competitive for those that aren't.    The group will still die if they suck...but in 25 seconds instead of 5 so hey...big deal. 

Anyway...for what was intended with the nerf, i would have to agree with Acolass.  Even the suggestion on how fits.   Soulward was nerfed way back when and it's usefulness was the same in PVE as DG.   Well guess what...it was nerfed anyway.  

Mariusx/Godchyld 

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Old 08-27-2012, 01:17 PM   #47
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[email protected] wrote:

 Working as intended... Any good healer knows to preward, use hots, use reactives before combat starts. So definately not an exploit just a game mechanic that has allways been there. Try to adjust and enjoy the game.

Exactly....the reality is quite simple this is a fix in search of a problem.  On a side not this is how gear seperation got started...by someone who got steamrolled in pvp by a smarter group...not gear imbalance..not broken mechanics...by the smarter group...same thing is happening here....yet another dps class looking to nerf healers even more in pvp because they either cant fanthom how to play smartly smartly with the current mechanics and seem to get agitated when they cant 3 button anyone in pvp (tbh no one should be able to 2 or 3 button anyone in pvp but thats not the case anymore regardless of the pvp update but thats another argument for another time.

Players need to stop complaining and looking for a nerf with ill conceived and poorly thought out ideas when they lose in pvp otherwise this type of argument will only exacerbate the feeling amongst healers to stop logging in to play them in pvp.

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Old 08-27-2012, 02:04 PM   #48
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

 Working as intended... Any good healer knows to preward, use hots, use reactives before combat starts. So definately not an exploit just a game mechanic that has allways been there. Try to adjust and enjoy the game.

Exactly....the reality is quite simple this is a fix in search of a problem.  On a side not this is how gear seperation got started...by someone who got steamrolled in pvp by a smarter group...not gear imbalance..not broken mechanics...by the smarter group...same thing is happening here....yet another dps class looking to nerf healers even more in pvp because they either cant fanthom how to play smartly smartly with the current mechanics and seem to get agitated when they cant 3 button anyone in pvp (tbh no one should be able to 2 or 3 button anyone in pvp but thats not the case anymore regardless of the pvp update but thats another argument for another time.

Players need to stop complaining and looking for a nerf with ill conceived and poorly thought out ideas when they lose in pvp otherwise this type of argument will only exacerbate the feeling amongst healers to stop logging in to play them in pvp.

@special -- how is it a smarter group when we can do the exact same thing when we have a templar? lol .. of course people are going to do it, it's not wrong.. but this is not game balance, or anything to do with skill or being smart. If an assassin could one shot someone (in the past) with 1 click of decap, he's not cheating, but it's certainly not really fair, and nothing to do with being smarter.. and i know, I remember when i was one shotted by Adelphi in SS (that's sinking sands mate) over 5-6 years ago SMILEY

+

i've never been able to 3 button someone in this game, i've had to use practically every button my class has... besides it seems you just want 1 button - DG

Players need to stop complaining and looking for a nerf with ill conceived and poorly thought out ideas when they lose in pvp otherwise this type of argument will only exacerbate the feeling amongst healers to stop logging in to play them in pvp.

we never lost a fight because of this situation, so i don't know why you keep saying that.. is that all the technical reasoning behind not fixing this clearly broken pvp mechanic?

Your arguements to keep it in the game (PVP) are completely Null. At least the Oasis cleric used actual game mechanics to argue back, albiet without experiencing actual open world pvp on nagafen.

i've never heard of someone fight for the right of keeping an obviously BAD OP PVP problem, except for terrible players.

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Old 08-28-2012, 12:08 AM   #49
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L2P this is not an exploit. PvP rules were never meant to work when not in PvP combat. Remember that tactics to counter every strategy. Either hit them into PvP combat before the put up DG or if they pop it back away from them and make them waste it. Very easy to choose not to engage with a group and avoid open world pvp.

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Old 08-28-2012, 03:54 AM   #50
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MalkorGodchyld wrote:

Not an exploit, but expect a "fix" now that attention has been focused on it. 

 I personally think the nerf to DG should have gone along the lines of reducing the heal amount instead of limiting the triggers, but maybe thats just me.  

DPS is so crazy in a good stacked group that abilities like DG make you have to strategize, which is a good thing imo.  Plus it provides the illusion of being competitive for those that aren't.    The group will still die if they suck...but in 25 seconds instead of 5 so hey...big deal. 

Anyway...for what was intended with the nerf, i would have to agree with Acolass.  Even the suggestion on how fits.   Soulward was nerfed way back when and it's usefulness was the same in PVE as DG.   Well guess what...it was nerfed anyway.  

Mariusx/Godchyld 

Soul Ward was being used pre-pull in pve to get a big ward up while ignoring a chance of dying due to the instant loss of most of the Defilers HPs, the fix to make it only usable in combat was a good change because its benefits were weighed against its chance to kill you which using pre-pull avoided entirely.  DG is nothing at all like this, its % groupwide hp increase is useful on inc for pve and has no drawback or chance to fail or kill the cleric, so changing it for a pvp reason is not ok for pve.

Either fix all temp buffs from pve to pvp or engage the cleric before they can get DG up under pve conditions like every single other temp buff in eq2.

Or deal with it.

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Old 08-28-2012, 07:48 AM   #51
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Novusod wrote:

L2P this is not an exploit. PvP rules were never meant to work when not in PvP combat. Remember that tactics to counter every strategy. Either hit them into PvP combat before the put up DG or if they pop it back away from them and make them waste it. Very easy to choose not to engage with a group and avoid open world pvp.

of course there is a way to counter every problem.. but if that's what you think, then there would be no need to ever patch this game for any pvp fixes ever?

said this before... i'm pretty sure it will not be difficult to add 

"If engaged in pvp combat, DG will reset and become 10 triggers"... this does not need a re-write of eq2 game mechanics, just an added line of code to the spell

and, you can't really say its not fair if fighting PVE mobs, as there is practically no contested content anyway.

@Davionxxx maybe you are right about soul ward, although i never heard anything about it being nerfed for PVE or PVP reasons..  it must have been a co-incidence, as at the time of the nerf there must have been about 1000 petitions going off for Defilers (one particular called screwed)...

at the time you only received infamy if the opponents HP was more than 50% HP. A Defiler when solo, to avoid losing fame, would soul ward himself before being engaged or before engaging, and have no fear of death.. the work around was Charm him and group heal him up to 50% health.. this didn't always work

This was 8th may 2007... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mnH...eature=youtu.be

The patch for soul ward on test was July.

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Old 08-30-2012, 03:01 PM   #52
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Closing this down now as there are quite a few forum violations within it.  Please read through the SOE Forum Guidelines and abide by them when posting!

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