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Old 10-13-2018, 07:49 AM   #31
Kojacke

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Noticed that jumping on my ranger during combat interrupts some combat arts now? Used to be I could jump and cast without it causing me to have to recast the ability without moving. What’s that about? I mean it doesn’t appear to have a balance reason to have been changed, jumping during long fights eases some boredom to mash on the keyboard aimlessly. Even if it may confuse the people around me at times lol
Also on the Assassin subject, I would love to see them brought up to par with rangers and sorcerers. At the moment I cannot think of a reason other than simple enjoyment to switch back to my preferred class. I’m not really here for base enjoyment but it would be nice to get that along with being competitive again.
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Old 10-13-2018, 09:19 AM   #32
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Jumping interupts everything now. Not movement.. jumping. I'm not sure why they made this change.. or why the didn't tell us about it.
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Old 10-13-2018, 03:37 PM   #33
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Exactly which is why this should be considered when doing class balance.

Casting Speed is capped at 100 percent. At 100 percent you can have the casting speed lowered of your spells/abilities by 50 percent. Yet there is a .5 second cap which they can not go lower then. Most Assassin damage abilities begin at .5 seconds, therefore, assassins do not get much benefit from casting speed. Again this goes back to my point that because of ascensions, we are forced to stack a Casting Speed (a stat that doesn't effect out DPS class abilities) in order to get Spell Double Cast (another stat that doesn't effect our class dps abilities)

Again I decided to play an assassin because i liked the play style, the fast casting quick reaction ability of the class. Ascensions seem to be a reverse class balance that was added to make all classes the SAME. Had ascensions been different for each archtype (Scouts, Fighters, Mages, and Healers)... maybe we wouldn't be in this current position of every class being about the same.

ATM we have Tanks and Healers being out Scout T1 DPS classes on the DPS Parses. When it becomes less beneficially to use your class abilities over the Ascension Spells... there is a problem. Ascensions should be secondary not primary damage. At is current point there is no way to consider class balance without also looking at how Ascensions effect each class.
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:34 PM   #34
Kojacke

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It’s extremely annoying imo.
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Old 10-14-2018, 01:16 AM   #35
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shhh ... Spell Double Case is included with the Dagger Strom calc...
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Old 10-14-2018, 02:09 AM   #36
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True, but it could be changed to work with ability double cast instead... which would make more sense hehe
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Old 10-14-2018, 02:13 AM   #37
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Ability double cast works on combat arts AND spells.. not just combat arts.
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Old 10-14-2018, 03:32 AM   #38
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Some archetype/classes get benefits from AA more than others. This should be balanced out.

Spell dbl aa for example - healers / mage gets benefit from aa
UT AA - extra ticks to ascension(non mages get shafted on this).

If Spell dbl is to remain all should have a level playing field from which to build on unless support classes start to buff more spell dbl / strong ascension buff spells.
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Old 10-14-2018, 05:37 AM   #39
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Spell dbl atk should have no influence on combat arts...idk what or why you people are even mentioning that. The whole issue is auto attack. Auto attack needs to be fixed... nothing as far as your abilities double casting shld be implemented except for the ability double cast which can affect ascensions for all...no fast cast time needs to happen or anything of the ladder... fix auto attack... then u can balance combat art damage....if they don’t fix auto attack.. all that needs to be done is boost the damage of our combat arts to fill in the gap. Or rework them into dots or a combination of both. If u really want to be a caster..play a mage...
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Old 10-14-2018, 05:39 AM   #40
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Exactly...Everyone benefits from Ability Double cast... but not everyone benefits from Spell double cast.

Maybe the answer is to do away with Spell Double Cast and just have Ability Double Cast since it effects everyone equally. That would definitely help balance the disparity between mage dps and scout dps.
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Old 10-14-2018, 06:22 AM   #41
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Or let spell double cast affect everything.... no itemization changes needed for that
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:14 AM   #42
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I don't think sins will be changed since the Rangers got that huge hawk nerf.
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:48 AM   #43
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Nerfing that doesn’t fix anything. It’s still a better choice to play a ranger for pure dps output reasons and that shouldn’t be a thing. They should be on par with one another so that the choice is ranged vs melee/slow cast vs quick cast. Nothing else. There should be no disparity between the two classes that makes one inherently better than the other in all situations. One should be better at range, one better at being close quarters.
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:57 AM   #44
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I propose that as a constructive opnion.
Melee status should be adjusted up to the level that can have competitively with spell abilities.

Autoattack melee is a dead-dog as damager despite of several components to strengthen.
In addition, Debuff on melee which PoP mobs have is a nail in the coffin.

Honestly, I'm fed up with these tendency to growth factor based on abilities.
There are fundamentally only 3 factors - Potency, Fervor, and Doublecast.
That propensity even impair items - although items have other problems.

They've added slots to mounts - 'Again'. That's what I thought when I knew it.
No matter there're more slots to strengthen, that's not fascinating with less worthy status.

I suppose growth factor is basically lean to spells at the moment.
That is not fun so I'd like them to make melee come back 'again' with worthy status.
What I'd like to tell you is to make more fascinating status, including items, for this good game.

Thank you.
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Old 10-14-2018, 05:43 PM   #45
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what hawk nerf
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Old 10-14-2018, 05:45 PM   #46
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guy caith already said a number of times auto attack is dead for scouts they dont want us being used as passive DPS.. so all melee stats might as well be remove imho
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Old 10-14-2018, 06:57 PM   #47
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Lol really? Retirement once again.
Side note - rangers do bring utility- uhh what like almost 10% dmg increase to the mob... so yeah
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Old 10-14-2018, 08:02 PM   #48
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Hold on a second, remove T2 ??? so you want your T2 classes to DPS like a T1 ? With all your utilities ?

Why would we need T1's anymore ?

As an example, why would you get a ranger (without a single utility) in a raid if you have a Swash that can DPS like a T1 and give a fervor buff, reset abilities, dispell and hate transfer, etc ?

Good thing DB is in charge !
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:33 PM   #49
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That's not utility, that's DPS, if you remove that 10%, why keep a ranger when you can have the same DPS with utilities ?
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:35 PM   #50
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Simple, the hawk will hit half of what it does now with the new mechanic, the loss in Pot, and no benefit from the fervor compensation.
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Old 10-15-2018, 03:21 PM   #51
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everything took a hit with the pot/cb changes but the hawk on my parses at least are still where they are on live just lower number.. ill double check this.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:19 PM   #52
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from what i saw so far, the hawk was fine, if not an even larger overall percentage of my outgoing dps. everything took quite a hit, but the hawk seemed relatively in line with how much we lost in total. The interesting thing to me, is how they seem to think that 30 fervor is equivalent to losing over 50k potency...
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Old 10-21-2018, 02:12 AM   #53
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Nod to the above!!!! Itemization has forced scouts to vie for spell double cast items with mages/priests in every instance I have run. Makes no sense to have items with double cast becoming the end all be all for equipment. But, if you want to be able to compete or give the necessary DPS in raids...it is critical. Changing the stat to be the same for ALL classes with dramatically help class balance and itemization issues.
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Old 10-23-2018, 01:22 AM   #54
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Ok! Lets see how this goes.
Warning: Converting my thoughts to words that other people can understand is not my strong suit.

Beastlords:

(1) The main problem i have Dpsing is running out of things to cast.
Suggestion: Reduce the Base Reuse Time of all "Primal" and "Spiritual" Abilities by 50%

(2) In CD Beta my Fervor is Capped at 316% with T1 Raid Gear. This Makes "Dragon Claws" & "Truespirit's Ferocity" useless.
Suggestion#1: Add Fervor OverCap by the same amount of Fervor Gained.
or
Suggestion#2: Change them back to increase Potency by XX% of casters base Potency.

(3) Beastlords are the only scout that cannot use Poisons.
Suggestion: Change Poisons so they can be used by all Scouts.
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Old 10-23-2018, 02:03 AM   #55
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(4) Feral Claws was changed to 25 Crit Bonus OverCap. ( Whats the point if we can't hit cap.)
Suggestion#1: Change it back to "For every 20 Potency. the caster gains 1 Crit Bonus"
or
Suggestion#2: Change it to "For every 20 Potency. the caster gains 1 Crit Bonus & 0.01 Crit Bonus OverCap"
or
Suggestion#3: Change it to "For every 20 Potency. the caster gains 0.5 Crit Bonus & 0.1 Crit Bonus OverCap"
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Old 10-23-2018, 02:45 AM   #56
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Uncle and whomever else...

I'd really like to see some more feedback in regards to the hawk and if possible comparison of the current state of assassin and rangers in relation to each other
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Old 10-24-2018, 07:32 PM   #57
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my last testing (solos / heroic) my hawk was where it is at on live and actually did about 8~10 % more damage iirc this imho is due to stats changes on beta. i also have not raid tested on the ranger yet to see how it the hawk looks in raid. As far as sin's go i used to betray to a sin a test some after KA though i will not be bothering this time around due to i will not be able to accurately test since to upgrade my abilities to where the rangers is at will take me too long to be able to do an accurate comparsion. Maybe someone else will do that
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Old 10-25-2018, 10:36 AM   #58
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I agree with these two. One of the aspects of high end bl parses was being able to time 10 stacks of ferocity with a primal chain and now if fervor cap is easy to hit that will be pointless. Advantages will still be key but it takes away some of the skill to play the class well. and as you mentioned also removes dragon claws from the use-able ability list end game. Like other classes that have fervor temps/abilities I think they should add fervor overcap as well to reduce the chance of these classes skill caps decreasing.

I have some other suggestions/issues to bring to Caith's attention as well with the bl class. This may get long Tongue

first off, Savage Rake/Feral Destruction...
These two abilities where added last xpac and are honestly the only worthwhile abilities to get to ancient and soon celestial. and in their current state that is highly debatable. I ran some test comparing them to primal damage output. I will link some screenshots of the examined damage and the ACT readout. Don't focus on the placement in the list as I made sure to only cast primals at savagery 0 and savagery 4 for the 2 primals that require it. This was to make sure that the main 3 (at sav 0) where not inflated in damage due to what is added from having higher savagery values. I also removed my celestial gate to mitigate any large damage spikes that could throw off average damage amounts.
The following are my tooltips for the abilities used:

Non-Primals:
Savage Rake (Ancient Tier) - 17,885,347 - 27,621,469 / Average parsed damage - 5,248,151,237 - 14 hits - 21%L, 0F, 0M
Feral Destruction (Grandmaster) 20,766,525 - 32,742,612 / Average parsed damage - 6,415,301,130 - 6 hits 16%L, 0F, 0M

Primals:
Claw of Khati Sha (NA - Savagery rank 0) 11,180,213 - 16,962,158 / Average parsed damage - 5,876,581,414 - 11 hits - 9.1%L/ 0F/0M
Luclin's Pain (NA - Savagery rank 0) 8,628,983 - 13,447,270 / Average parsed damage - 5,289,939,915 - 10 hits - 0L,0F,0M
Noxious Grasp (NA - Savagery rank 0) 11,180,213 - 16,962,158 / Average parsed damage - 7,196,037,725 - 6 hits - 0L, 0F, 0M
Brutal Beatdown (NA - Savagery rank 4, needed to cast) 12,556,796 - 19,150,545 - Average parsed damage - 6,942,662,256 - 3 hits - 33L, 0F, 0M
Draconic Breath (NA - Savagery rank 4, needed to cast) 10,934,597 - 17,112,559 - Average parsed damage - 6,532,911,458 - 3 hits - 0L, 0F, 0M

as you can see based on the tool tip damage primals should be hitting for roughly 60% of Savage Rake and 50% of Feral Destruction. This sadly is not the case instead Savage Rake is hitting for around the same damage as Luclin's Pain and Claw, which are on the low end of the spectrum for damage. Feral Destruction is only slightly higher than Claw's average. If you removed legendary hits they level out even further.

I have a feeling this could be caused by the side hidden base damage increase values that classes have. I wonder if for some reason Savage Rake/Feral Destruction are not taking advantage of that stat. When I do a full parse in raids Rake and Destruction are painfully low on the parse. Which is why I said they where close to being pointless to upgrade with the extreme cost of the ancient teachings for their levels. It should also be noted that Rake has almost half the recast time of primals. So in a raid burn parse it should be alot higher than some of them since its should be hitting 50-60% harder and 80% more often. Fixing these 2 abilities would be a solid start in bringing Beastlords back in line with other T1 classes.

Another suggestion I have for BL is much smaller on the damage increase scale but would add to the playabliity of the class. The ability Savagery Freeze currently has a cast timer and with lag/base recovery and the way Savagery decays it is really challenging to time this ability to Freeze Savagery at lvl 6. If this ability was made instant cast it would allow us to lock down savagery at the right time.

Another issue currently with the bl is the new ability Warder's Ferocity, currently when cast and the toggled back off there is a long delay between when its off and when your warder gets back to the enemy and activates a new advantage. This makes the ability almost useless because the number of potential Advantage hits that could have happened during the time it takes to toggle it, toggle it back off and wait for your pet to run to the mob and then proc. I'm not sure what the answer would be to fix/change but maybe if there is a way to not pull the pet to the caster when its toggled but merely block the advantage proc until its off again. part of the delay is caused by sketchy pathing of your warder so this would eliminate that. Also cb seems to be a hard to get stat starting in CD. so adding cb AND cboc to this ability would make it useful since at this point only cboc is pointless. If this ability was adjusted it would actually be really good for the bl. I like stuff that requires timing and strategy to use not just free damage. it increases the skill cap of the class which is always a good thing imo.

I hope these suggestions help shine some light on a few abilities that have been lackluster/possibly bugged.

I mentioned I would post screen shots but I will have to edit this post later to add them. my work wifi wont let me go to an image software site. I will share this forum post on discord with the devs tagged though and post the SS with that post.
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Old 10-25-2018, 03:09 PM   #59
Errrorr

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Sad to see Makeshift Arrows get hit by the nerf bat today, with nothing to provide any form of replacement.

Or maybe this is just considered an assassin buff
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Old 10-25-2018, 05:48 PM   #60
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