EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

 

Go Back   EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire > EverQuest II > Altar of Malice Beta > Class Discussion (AoM Beta) > Priests
Members List Search Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-08-2014, 03:45 AM   #1
Daalilama

Well-Known Member
Daalilama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

With all priests getting essentially a revamped version of one of their group buffs, in my case Symbol of Marzin, which is fine as a starting choice for us, there is a potential issue that needs to be addressed here regarding the mitigation boost.

  • Starter ability adds 3800 physical mitigation to this group buff however, this mitigation does not apply to the individual heal thus leaving them 3800 mitigation in the hole.
  • As I have not tested this ability I can only assume that my Templar when tandem with say a warden would benefit from their starter ability's physical mitigation buff and vise versa. I can see this as a way to limit physical mitigation stacking issues with healers which tbh is ok. Does the mitigation stack with group members other than healers?
  • If the mitigation buff from a tandem set of healers in a group does not affect either healer this will lead to problems on healer survivability.
  • Also, if 2 tandem healers do get the physical mitigation benefit from one another, has any consideration been given to the issue of solo healers and the physical mitigation loss?
  • Given that the starting priest ability is designed at least on paper to limit physical mitigation stacking issues from multiple healers, can I suggest that the ability be changed to allow the healer, in my case Templar, to get the physical mitigation buff if solo healing?
Daalilama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 04:01 AM   #2
Ebofu

Active Member
Ebofu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

Seems odd to exclude yourself from the buff, what was your reasoning?

Regardless if they stack between priests or not, you will always need n+1 amount of priests to equalise mitigation. If they don't stack everyone will have the same mitigation then, if they do stack you have excessive mitigation to everyone but the priests. Either way you are not achieving anything.
Ebofu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 04:14 AM   #3
GIndotto

Active Member
GIndotto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

Xelgad had mentioned in a previous post, (possibly because of Brawlers), this expansion will focus on Health vs Mitigation, instead of mitigation vs avoidance. Not sure how specifically that will pan out, but I'm guessing this healer buff won't be as big as it appears now given ToV ways.
GIndotto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 04:16 AM   #4
Applewater

New Member
Applewater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

I have an issue with this as well. I play a fury and mostly solo heal the mage group. So, as this reads ATM this will leave us solo healers extremely squishy compared to even mages.
Applewater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 05:37 AM   #5
Daalilama

Well-Known Member
Daalilama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

Gin regardless of how this buff is intended and/or changing mechanics or focus on mit vs. hp...in a solo heal situation this will as Apple said leave healers more squishy when compared to other classes...doesn't seem logical and hope we can get Xelgad to give us bit of insight on this buff issue and perhaps some possible solutions other than what I posted.
Daalilama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 10:18 AM   #6
Beyoncia

Active Member
Beyoncia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

I can't agree more, this buff should affect the caster as well. I don't see anything gamebreaking if we have another 4 k of mitigation. We won't be able to tank anyway.
Beyoncia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 10:27 AM   #7
Caminus

New Member
Caminus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

I don't get how not applying it to the priest that cast it would be to prevent stacking... if you want to prevent stacking... just don't let it stack. We have other buffs that don't stack, so I fail to see why this would be any different. If it does stack, then having two priests in the group would still have the whole group with stacked buffs except the priests. Again, I don't see how it has anything to do with stacking.

That said, I'm curious as to why it doesn't apply to to the priest that cast it.
Caminus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 12:31 AM   #8
Mermut

Well-Known Member
Mermut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

Even if the healer isn't solo healing.. healers will always be at least 3800 mit in the hole.. add the buff to scout and mage personal mit buffs (no increase mentioned to healer personal mit buffs) and healers are going to be even further in the mit hole. Healers shouldn't have to worry more about their other group members' health. I'm at a loss to understand the reasoning behind what seems to be a deliberate degradation of priest survivability compared to other archtypes.
Mermut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 05:02 AM   #9
Hammdaddy

Active Member
Hammdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

Not really, if you think about how much mitigation you have VS someone like a mage a fury is basically even now and plate tanks/shamans have even more mit its dumb.
Hammdaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 07:29 AM   #10
Kalika

Well-Known Member
Kalika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

We cannot tolerate the current starting prestige ability.

I hope that we will convince the devs that as it is the ability is ridiculous.

Are priests the new squishies ?

If the talent does not get changed, if it is not a mistake we will have to go on strike and to refuse to play our healers till it get fixed.
Kalika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 12:14 PM   #11
Luziana

New Member
Luziana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

I was thinking about the reasoning behind this, but i can see no reason why this spell should not apply to priests.

Its for the group and the priest is part of the group. The group is not stronger if you have one member left out of buffs.
But maybe there is a plan to sell special priest mitigation potions in the shop Wink - jk.
Luziana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 03:36 PM   #12
Daalilama

Well-Known Member
Daalilama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

While its only a few days old with beta and this may yet change or gear may drop that would address this etc... no one knows just yet however as it stands and on paper its not looking good atm.
Daalilama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 03:52 PM   #13
Kalika

Well-Known Member
Kalika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default


Unless priests get gear with much more mitigation than any other class i don't see how they can justify it ....

When a tank buf increase other people mit you can understand it, because otherwise tank would be owerpowered (lie my paladin group buf). But in the case of priest it's simply nuts, our mit is not higher than other toons and we are supposed to be in the middle of the fight protecting our group. We are designed to be sturdy, and those of us who wear leather get specific buf to increase their mit to chain levels ...

I truly hope it's mistake ...
Kalika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 05:55 PM   #14
Kurei Hitaka

Active Member
Kurei Hitaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

Stuff like this shows just how seriously we need to start taking the forums and the /feedback command, not just on Beta but on live as well.
Kurei Hitaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2014, 01:45 AM   #15
Hammdaddy

Active Member
Hammdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

Mogrim has roughly 4k mit.
I have 8k on a fury.
He now has as much as me.
2 Healer groups the other healer will get the mitigation from the other healer, the mit from buffs (shouldn't Stack).
Therefore two healer groups will not be affected, this is making mages less squishier and making it harder to solo heal groups.
Hammdaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2014, 03:07 AM   #16
Mermut

Well-Known Member
Mermut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

If one healer can do the job, why should two be brought? This appears to make solo priests artificially squishy. There is also nothing that says the priest mit buff won't stack on group members. It may stack, it may not.
Mermut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2014, 03:43 AM   #17
Kalika

Well-Known Member
Kalika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

If the devs refuse to change their mind or to correct their mistake we will have to use extreme
actions like refusing to cast our group buf even in raids.

If we don't need mitigation why would other need it ?
Kalika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2014, 03:53 AM   #18
Caminus

New Member
Caminus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

Yeah... I bet that'll get the devs to see it your way. Or maybe it'll just get you kicked out of your raid for being a bit childish.

How about we wait to hear some kind of explanation from the devs for why it excludes the priest who cast it, before we go off the deep end about ridiculous "measures" to take to get it changed.

We haven't even been able to test it yet because we can't spend the new AA points yet. So just chill out a little 'til we can actually see how it'll effect us.
Caminus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2014, 06:17 AM   #19
Buffrat

Well-Known Member
Buffrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default


Mogrim has 4k. Plus 3k from your Armor of Nature, that you are already getting. Plus 1500 from his stamina AA that he doesn't take because he's Mogrim. Now he has 8.5k, which is more than you. Then he has 12.3k from the new buff.

I don't get why you're making such a big deal over this. WE DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW THE EXPANSION WORKS. THERE'S NOTHING TO EVEN TEST YET OUTSIDE OF SOLO CONTENT THAT I ONE SHOT WITH MY RANGED AUTO. We can't even spend points in the tree to cast the spell yet! Stop posting until you actually get a chance to test it.
Buffrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2014, 09:06 AM   #20
Beyoncia

Active Member
Beyoncia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

You are right, I can't even test because my game keep crashing on zoning in to the new areas. But it doesn't deny the fact, I want the same 3.8 k mitigation, that I give out to others, for myself. And I will continue to complain about it, not matter how expansion works. Simply based on the selfish fact, that I want the same buff.
Beyoncia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2014, 12:29 PM   #21
Kalika

Well-Known Member
Kalika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

Me too .... what they did cannot be tolerated if they want to avoid a 6 healer group to have 6 buff just put a limit on the amount of buf that can stack, let say 2.
Kalika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2014, 01:03 PM   #22
Buffrat

Well-Known Member
Buffrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

Man you guys are right. I'm gonna start a post about how mystics should get self bolster when they bolster someone, and shamans should get self roa when they roa someone, and chanters should get self EV when they EV someone, and bards should get self BC/UT when they buff someone, and how Guardians should get death save triggers from Sentry Watch when they cast it on their group, and how chanters should get self Sever Hate when they cast it on someone else, and how Defilers should get self Tendrils when they cast it on someone, and how defilers should get Invective when they cast it on someone else, and how Furies should get Wrath's Blessing when they cast it on someone else, and how furies should get Primal Fury when they cast it on someone else (oh wait that one happened), and how wardens should get Spores when they cast it on someone else, and how druids should get thorns when they cast it on someone else, and how all priests should get single target hp buff when they cast it on someone else, and it should stack infinite times, and how mystics should get ancestral avatar when they cast it on someone else, and how inqs should get inquest when they cast it on someone else, and how templars should get glory when they cast it on someone else, and how templars should get unyielding benediction when they cast it on someone else without using the dumb myth cloak that is bad and no one should be using it's physical only stoneskin pls stop, and how channelers should get a copy of truespirit rift cast at their location when they cast it on top of someone else, and how necros should get their siphon souls buffs cast on themselves when they use it on someone else, and how conjs should get fire seeds cast on themselves when they use it on someone else, and how sorcerers should get their dot damage proc buffs cast on themselves when they cast it on someone else, and how assassins should get apply toxin cast on themselves when they apply it to someone else, and how brigands should get anger or mercy cast on themselves when they cast it on someone else, and how brigands should get damage reduction when using honor among thieves that they cast on someone else, and how clerics should get holy shield cast on themselves when they cast it on someone else, and how summoners should get 24 shards/hearts in their bags when they cast raidwide hearts or shards because that's only fair that they get mega benefit from their buffs, and how I bet you're not even reading this anymore when you cast it on someone else, and how druids should get single target hots cast on themselves when they cast them on someone else, and how all priests single target DPs should be cast on themselves when they cast them on someone else, and how clerics should get single target reactives/wards cast on themselves when they cast them on someone else including Sacrifice, and how defilers should get soul ward cast on themselves when they cast it on someone else, and how shamans should get single target wards cast on themselves when they cast them on other people, and how paladin raidwide mit buff should affect the paladin when they cast it on other people, and how the guardian raidwide DR priest buff should affect the guardian when they cast it on someone else, and how guardian's guardian sphere should affect the guardian at the same rate it affects the group because that's only fair, and how cleric's equilibrium should affect fighters because it's not fair to exclude a class.
Buffrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2014, 01:08 PM   #23
Kalika

Well-Known Member
Kalika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

Your examples are meaningless since you speak mostly about bufs that affect a single target. Don't try to be a fan boy and to defend a decision that is simply wrong ... unless we find out that priest mit is much higher than scout one but since we share the armor mit value i don't think it will be the case.

The are buf that fighter only (stamina one as example) and this is normal, a mit bu that would be excluding the priests simply cannot be supported.
Kalika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2014, 01:11 PM   #24
Bloood

New Member
Bloood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

Buffrats post, +1.
@Kalika, sweet grammar.
Bloood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2014, 01:12 PM   #25
Buffrat

Well-Known Member
Buffrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default


Living in this expansion was a joke anyway. I wouldn't mind a chance to get one shot by a physical aoe. If there even are physical aoes. Which we don't know because content isn't on beta yet. Also plenty of those were group buffs that don't affect the caster. Like 6.
Buffrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2014, 09:35 PM   #26
headbusta

Member
headbusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

Bring a guardian...10% damage reduction to priests as our prestige endline last go around...other people get buffs that don't affect themselves as well.
headbusta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2014, 10:41 PM   #27
Beyoncia

Active Member
Beyoncia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

It's not the same, we do not complain that one of our buffs increases stamina for fighters and only for fighters. And I also can't remember any real group buff (a permanent group buff that increases some stats) that doesn't affect the caster.
Beyoncia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2014, 11:30 PM   #28
Mermut

Well-Known Member
Mermut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

exactly
Mermut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2014, 01:22 AM   #29
Kalika

Well-Known Member
Kalika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

Since you beling to the community council you should really ask for explanation.

I don't think that having squishy priest is going to be interesting. We have to be solid since we keep the group alive.
Often, even in heroic a dps will die, they tend to use low hp gear, i tend to maximise my survability (unless i do trivial content and simply max my dps too).
Kalika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2014, 07:14 AM   #30
Lemon Wolf

New Member
Lemon Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 0
Default

Oh my. You spend way too much time on this game.
Anyway as others mentioned your examples are flawed. The description of this new ability is pretty clear. 4k mitigation less for any solo healing priest. It makes no sense. If their intent is to change priests to the squishy archetype it is a bad move in my opinion.
Lemon Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:33 AM.

vBulletin skin by: CompleteGFX.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All threads and posts originally from the EQ2 and Station forums operated by Sony Online Entertainment. Their use is by express written permission.