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Old 10-22-2012, 08:08 PM   #31
Cakeny

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What is the point for changing how xp works?

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Old 10-22-2012, 08:17 PM   #32
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I think it's good. If you're 2 box PLing then it's as current. If you're actually being mentored and not afk auto following and just throw a spell in, you get more xp. And normal group xp in level appropriate content will get a boost. It doesn't fix the problem of inviting extra people on a PL session, unless everyone can get on the hate list. If they're all actual players, this might be possible. But for me, with 2 clients, if I invite another player he may get mega xp but my alt probably will get less cus it won't be on hate list. But you can't balance for PLing.
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Old 10-22-2012, 08:54 PM   #33
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Cakeny wrote:

What is the point for changing how xp works?

Probably to cut down on the whole PLing thing.

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Old 10-22-2012, 09:06 PM   #34
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[email protected] wrote:

Cakeny wrote:

What is the point for changing how xp works?

Probably to cut down on the whole PLing thing.

I think his/her point is why change this now...

there are a half dozen ways around it that i can think right off the top of my head...

edited: removing the exp penalty is a great idea imho, but it is a double edged sword. 

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Old 10-22-2012, 09:09 PM   #35
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My question is this:

I have two gold membership accounts. The reason for the second one was for my zerker to pull my toons around and level them up. I have paid $15.00 per month for many years just to have that option. As for my question; why should I continue to purchase a subscription if you render my second account useless? I'm only one man. It would add a considerable amount of time to my leveling experience if I am to stop my zerker, change screens, cast, wait for hit, switch screens and proceed. This is becoming a hinderance in my gameplay style. Major no-go in my opinion.

My money, my accounts, my playstyle. Leave it alone.

Edit: If this is designed to prevent AFK leveling from mercs, wouldn't it be wise to instead implament some kind of movement requirement instead of penalizing us two boxers? Example, If you fail to move your character a set distance in a 15 minute time period, your kicked to character select!?!?

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Old 10-22-2012, 09:09 PM   #36
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Detor wrote:

So, in summary, is this right?

Normal group, nobody is mentoring or being mentored: Miss getting on a mob's hate list and you get the same experience you always would have, get on the mob's hate list however and your experience is no longer being split by the number of group members - you get experience as if you soloed the mob. - Perfect! Just remember that mercenaries are still going to subtract from solo for you since we don't want to replace real players.

If you are mentored: You get less experience when mentored than before (no encounter bonus anymore, so that reduces mentor experience by about 75% from where it is now if you fail to get on the mob's hate list, (I think the experience bonus for an encounter is 300% of what an individual mob gives right?), but if you get on the mob's hate list than you aren't splitting experience so you come out about 25% ahead of where you do currently.  Does that all sound right?

Encounter bonus varies depending on the size of the encounter. You can get a small amount from an individual mob and a bit more when killing a group. When that encounter bonus is given, it doesn't care WHICH mob you were on the hatelist for, as long as you made it onto one.

So say you're fighting a named mob with 2 adds. You can kill an add while your tank handles the named and still qualify for the encounter bonus.

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Old 10-22-2012, 09:16 PM   #37
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Terrogaunt wrote:

Detor wrote:

So, in summary, is this right?

Normal group, nobody is mentoring or being mentored: Miss getting on a mob's hate list and you get the same experience you always would have, get on the mob's hate list however and your experience is no longer being split by the number of group members - you get experience as if you soloed the mob. - Perfect! Just remember that mercenaries are still going to subtract from solo for you since we don't want to replace real players.

If you are mentored: You get less experience when mentored than before (no encounter bonus anymore, so that reduces mentor experience by about 75% from where it is now if you fail to get on the mob's hate list, (I think the experience bonus for an encounter is 300% of what an individual mob gives right?), but if you get on the mob's hate list than you aren't splitting experience so you come out about 25% ahead of where you do currently.  Does that all sound right?

Encounter bonus varies depending on the size of the encounter. You can get a small amount from an individual mob and a bit more when killing a group. When that encounter bonus is given, it doesn't care WHICH mob you were on the hatelist for, as long as you made it onto one.

So say you're fighting a named mob with 2 adds. You can kill an add while your tank handles the named and still qualify for the encounter bonus.

When I two box, my zerker pulls everything in sight that will not break from distance. So for example, I'm in Palace of Awakening, mentored, and pull an entire floor; each mob would normally give me... say... 200 experience. What kind of experience does my alt boxed toon get out of that 200 exp per kill ratio? Without hitting anything and just on autofollow, how much? With making the hate list and contributing to the entire fight, how much? Estimated and approximately please.This should give us a foundation of what kind of experience loss or gain you are talking about.

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Old 10-22-2012, 09:33 PM   #38
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ZUES wrote:

When I two box, my zerker pulls everything in sight that will not break from distance. So for example, I'm in Palace of Awakening, mentored, and pull an entire floor; each mob would normally give me... say... 200 experience. What kind of experience does my alt boxed toon get out of that 200 exp per kill ratio? This should give us a foundation of what kind of experience loss or gain you are talking about.

Well, let's say I'm fighting a group of blue mobs in a Shadow Odyssey dungeon. I'm level 85 and they are all 84.

In this pull of 4 mobs from one encounter, I'm getting ~500 exp for each because they're heroic and I get an ~800 encounter bonus from defeating it. This is the experience that you get when you're solo.

In a group of two under normal circumstances, this amount goes down from ~500 to ~260 and the encounter bonus remains the same. With the change, every kill you help with, you'll be getting that 500 values instead of the 260 and will be eligible for the encounter bonus. If you don't help and are just being dragged around, you'll just get the 260.

So the only change would be that you aren't getting the encounter bonus for the toons who are only auto-following.

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Old 10-22-2012, 09:52 PM   #39
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Summary:

For groups where everybody is participating, xp goes up across the board.

For 'groups' where one person is doing all the work and the others are just along for the ride, nothing changes.

I fail to see how this is a bad thing. It encourages actual grouping without changing things for the people who like to dual box, get dragged along as baggage, or actually afk follow while being power-leveled.

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Old 10-22-2012, 09:53 PM   #40
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Terrogaunt wrote:

Detor wrote:

So, in summary, is this right?

Normal group, nobody is mentoring or being mentored: Miss getting on a mob's hate list and you get the same experience you always would have, get on the mob's hate list however and your experience is no longer being split by the number of group members - you get experience as if you soloed the mob. - Perfect! Just remember that mercenaries are still going to subtract from solo for you since we don't want to replace real players.

If you are mentored: You get less experience when mentored than before (no encounter bonus anymore, so that reduces mentor experience by about 75% from where it is now if you fail to get on the mob's hate list, (I think the experience bonus for an encounter is 300% of what an individual mob gives right?), but if you get on the mob's hate list than you aren't splitting experience so you come out about 25% ahead of where you do currently.  Does that all sound right?

Encounter bonus varies depending on the size of the encounter. You can get a small amount from an individual mob and a bit more when killing a group. When that encounter bonus is given, it doesn't care WHICH mob you were on the hatelist for, as long as you made it onto one.

So say you're fighting a named mob with 2 adds. You can kill an add while your tank handles the named and still qualify for the encounter bonus.

When you say 'When experience was mentioned with mentoring, that was referring to encounter bonus. You'll still get the experience from the kill, but not the bonuses from defeating the spawn's encounter if you're mentoring someone.' do you mean you won't get the NEW bonus that makes it almost like you're soloing, or do you mean you won't get the old bonus experience for killing a full encounter? (Just wondering if we're talking about two different things, I'm thinking in terms of the kill a 5 mob encounter, and it gives you say 10 xp per mob, then 40 bonus for killing the entire encounter.  Is that what's going away when you are mentoring? It doesn't matter if you're on the hatelist or not, if you are mentored down then that's going away is my understanding?  If you AREN'T mentored down - that's when the hatelist matters.)

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Old 10-22-2012, 09:54 PM   #41
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Mermut wrote:

Summary:

For groups where everybody is participating, xp goes up across the board.

For 'groups' where one person is doing all the work and the others are just along for the ride, nothing changes.

I fail to see how this is a bad thing. It encourages actual grouping without changing things for the people who like to dual box, get dragged along as baggage, or actually afk follow while being power-leveled.

Exactly and i think Terrogaunt's last explanation was perfect.

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Old 10-22-2012, 09:56 PM   #42
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Mermut wrote:

Summary:

For groups where everybody is participating, xp goes up across the board.

For 'groups' where one person is doing all the work and the others are just along for the ride, nothing changes.

I fail to see how this is a bad thing. It encourages actual grouping without penalizing the people who like to dual box, get dragged along as baggage, or actually afk follow while being power-leveled.

It's VERY bad! The largest source of EXP comes from the bonuses. Double exp weekends, exp potions, mentored bonus and most especially VETERAN bonus is all eliminated because it's applied in the bonus. All the benefits of leveling alts has just come to a screeching halt. So has my second account's subscription. That's all I do when I'm not raiding. Alts ARE everquest for me.

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Old 10-22-2012, 09:57 PM   #43
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ZUES wrote:

Mermut wrote:

Summary:

For groups where everybody is participating, xp goes up across the board.

For 'groups' where one person is doing all the work and the others are just along for the ride, nothing changes.

I fail to see how this is a bad thing. It encourages actual grouping without penalizing the people who like to dual box, get dragged along as baggage, or actually afk follow while being power-leveled.

It's VERY bad! The largest source of EXP comes from the bonuses. Double exp weekends, exp potions, mentored bonus and most especially VETERAN bonus is all eliminated because it's applied in the bonus. All the benefits of leveling alts has just come to a screeching halt. So has my second account's subscription. That's all I do when I'm not raiding. Alts ARE everquest for me.

Please don't confuse server and account bonuses with encounter bonus.

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Old 10-22-2012, 10:32 PM   #44
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I'm sorry I thought they applied the same and went into the final bonus.

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Old 10-22-2012, 11:33 PM   #45
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ZUES wrote:

I'm sorry I thought they applied the same and went into the final bonus.

The server and max character bonuses modify the base xp you get from encounters (they're usually a percent increase).  So Terrogaunt said "In this pull of 4 mobs from one encounter, I'm getting ~500 exp for each because they're heroic and I get an ~800 encounter bonus from defeating it. "  THEN apply other bonuses like Veteran's, xp pots, and server bonuses.  You can see what bonuses you're getting by mousing over your XP bar.

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Old 10-23-2012, 04:33 AM   #46
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What about the green mobs?  Wasn't there something about the mentored down character not getting any XP from them? 

If so, what about the normal levels in the group, what kind of XP will they get?

Also, will green mobs still drop chests if taken out entirely by the mentored down character?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

And me and my hubby are most concerned about our healers and slow-casting classes.  We often group with our son's mentored down paladin (he loves protecting mom and dad.)  And very often he takes out whole encounter groups by himself before we have a chance to hit any of them or cast a heal.  It is a lot of fun adventuring with him.  But I fear these changes will ruin it.  He will get frustrated when his XP is shot to almost nothing compared to what it was before.  And we will level up at a snail's pace.

To be honest, I am seriously thinking about shelving most of my healers and mages now, and focusing instead on my melee and fast aoe damage classes.  And if these changes do affect healers and slower to do damage classes, I may not be the only one.  SMILEY

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Old 10-23-2012, 10:41 AM   #47
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The changes are next to useless... they just had to drop the penalty for grping.... not much more, nothing less....

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Old 10-23-2012, 01:15 PM   #48
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bucketon wrote:

it does sound like people in non power levelling groups will miss out on xp sometimes, if i read it right. It's going to be difficult getting something in on every monster, well at the relatively lower levels (where i am), i dont know what its like at 90+ but my 77 wizard can one shot things his level or a couple above with ice comet. If other dps classes are just as powerful then the none dps classes are probably going to miss out on quite a bit of xp that they used to get.

Even my class might suffer, if melees are killing monsters before he's managed to fire a spell.

i agree, if you kill mentoring, there will be even less reason to group than there is now...  2 years ago, i was regularly grouping with people at all levels for all dungeons on Freeport server, people still wanted to group, but with the xp divided among the number of people in the group, and the loot being exactly the same wether you're grouped or not, most people just wait, and solo it later, and use the loot on an alt, and now nobody groups unless it's a dov dungeon or higher level

i think soe should be thinking of ways to make grouping MORE rewarding, not less

not sure what they're planning as they haven't announced anything yet, and this is all rumor, so I'll wait and see, but whatever they do, it should be aimed at making grouping more rewarding, that's my contribution

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Old 10-23-2012, 01:21 PM   #49
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Mermut wrote:

Summary:

For groups where everybody is participating, xp goes up across the board.

For 'groups' where one person is doing all the work and the others are just along for the ride, nothing changes.

I fail to see how this is a bad thing. It encourages actual grouping without changing things for the people who like to dual box, get dragged along as baggage, or actually afk follow while being power-leveled.

You and 2 of your budies are trying to play in FG.

I come along with a box and destroy the entire zone faster than it can respawn.

I am still penalized if I invite you to share the experience with me, so I'm not going to invite you and continue to box the zone by myself.

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Old 10-23-2012, 02:04 PM   #50
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Ulrichvon wrote:

Mermut wrote:

Summary:

For groups where everybody is participating, xp goes up across the board.

For 'groups' where one person is doing all the work and the others are just along for the ride, nothing changes.

I fail to see how this is a bad thing. It encourages actual grouping without changing things for the people who like to dual box, get dragged along as baggage, or actually afk follow while being power-leveled.

You and 2 of your budies are trying to play in FG.

I come along with a box and destroy the entire zone faster than it can respawn.

I am still penalized if I invite you to share the experience with me, so I'm not going to invite you and continue to box the zone by myself.

I have no interest in being baggage in a group. With our without the changes, I'd lose in the senario you've illustrated and I'd find another zone to go play in anyway.

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Old 10-23-2012, 03:37 PM   #51
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Mermut wrote:

Ulrichvon wrote:

You and 2 of your budies are trying to play in FG.

I come along with a box and destroy the entire zone faster than it can respawn.

I am still penalized if I invite you to share the experience with me, so I'm not going to invite you and continue to box the zone by myself.

I have no interest in being baggage in a group. With our without the changes, I'd lose in the senario you've illustrated and I'd find another zone to go play in anyway.

Sure, I can understand your personal feelings on that, but others would much prefer to be included in the activity.  And so long as I (the instegator of the activity) is penalized for allowing others to join me, I'm not going to ever extend the invitation.

I'm grinding aa on my temp today in sanctum, and basically rolling over people solo/molo/duoing, some of which asked if they could join me.

It sucks telling people no, they can't join me cause of the way the group XP system is devised.

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Old 10-23-2012, 04:12 PM   #52
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While I am all for new “changes” in a game that I have come and gone from for many years now; this is one thing I disapprove of.

Rift did this also for a few weeks, people started quitting left and right because it truly isn’t fair honestly. I want EQ2 to not follow the same actions as a game that I quit to come back here to enjoy the fun of leveling my characters. I have been back now for 3 months and I have planned to stay for a while. However, considering that my characters will get less exp for not engaged in the encounter is senseless honestly. I kill things so fast that even my alt couldn’t click over to do anything, missing out on the bonus is unfair in my opinion.

I have looked over the forum comments here, and while exploiting is an issue but auto following on my other character that I pay for each month should not be penalized. Granted I get that mentored targets will gain more exp, but they will not receive any bonus without engaging? A Zerker kills everything before an alt could even think about hitting it mentored down or not.

I believe what should happen are those who group “actively engaged” gain more exp throughout the group as a larger bonus. The “reinventing the wheel here” of previous exp should not change at all.

 Now, the question will come back why don’t you group with others? Well I do, but if I want to be grouped with myself 5 times I should not receive any penalties because I pay for that many accounts. I also mentor people for fun, so if I need AA’s I am going to be gaining even less exp than before? That takes the mentor system out of the game.

I am looking forward for EQ2 to continue on the same path of greatness, but this is one of those mistakes that should not happen.

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Old 10-23-2012, 04:19 PM   #53
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Ulrichvon wrote:

Mermut wrote:

Ulrichvon wrote:

You and 2 of your budies are trying to play in FG.

I come along with a box and destroy the entire zone faster than it can respawn.

I am still penalized if I invite you to share the experience with me, so I'm not going to invite you and continue to box the zone by myself.

I have no interest in being baggage in a group. With our without the changes, I'd lose in the senario you've illustrated and I'd find another zone to go play in anyway.

Sure, I can understand your personal feelings on that, but others would much prefer to be included in the activity.  And so long as I (the instegator of the activity) is penalized for allowing others to join me, I'm not going to ever extend the invitation.

I'm grinding aa on my temp today in sanctum, and basically rolling over people solo/molo/duoing, some of which asked if they could join me.

It sucks telling people no, they can't join me cause of the way the group XP system is devised.

How is being dragged along w/o contributing participating?

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Old 10-23-2012, 04:39 PM   #54
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How is being dragged along w/o contributing participating?

How is me powerleveling my bard a problem for any other player in the game?

We can argue back and forth about whether it is or is not a benefit in situation X or Y but I'm curious what "problem" is we're trying to solve here.  If I'm trying to level my toons, getting a group sub 92 is almost impossible.  My only choice is to PL.  Why am I now being penalized for something that has been effectively an integral part of the game since inception?

The "extra" exp is great for participating group members, but why nuke the bonus for those not on the hate list?

Seems like EQ2 social engineering to correct a problem that only exists in perception and turning off long established players who are already paying for multiple accounts (high profit for SOE).

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Old 10-23-2012, 04:43 PM   #55
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http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=523293

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Old 10-23-2012, 04:56 PM   #56
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Terrogaunt wrote:

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=523293

I appreciate the clarification.  I don't recall seeing prior to this that the non-engagement bonus exp loss was limited only to green con mobs.  That makes a huge difference.

If you're PLing on green stuff, you're doing it wrong anyway SMILEY

So just to confirm, blue/white/yellow/orange mobs will work as they do today regardless of participation, but participation will get you an exp bonus over what you get today?

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Old 10-23-2012, 05:05 PM   #57
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Thank you Torquer for writing these questions, as these are questions I also have. Does this also effect any Chrono'd mentoring? More than normal that is.

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Old 10-24-2012, 07:56 PM   #58
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Terrogaunt wrote:

Hey guys. Just chiming in to address confusion on this.

You will still get experience if you're not on the hatelist.

You just won't get as much as you would have if you were able to contribute. The change makes it so you get experience to that of soloing if you are able to contribute to the battle. If not, you will still get the same amount (that of a N-sized group).

So in essence, this just means for you that you are getting the chance at even more exp in situations where you're able to help kill the mob.

I'm wondering how that will work out in some cases.  Say I make a lvl 1 Zerker and my wife makes a lvl Templar, if we always quest together and group with each other, will I outlevel her eventually?  Will she be required to hit the mob or heal on every fight to keep up with me?  Doing overland quests that is completely uneccessary for her to do that right now.

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Old 10-24-2012, 08:16 PM   #59
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Seems like a similar mechanic to the one they tried where the summoner had to do something to a mob to get any benefit from pet kills.  It didn't last long.

This isn't that simplistic, but are single-target characters on the hate list for the encounter if they only attack one of a group before it's burned down?  Even warlocks might not be fast enough to get their AE casts off with an AE heavy tank.

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Old 10-24-2012, 08:22 PM   #60
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Torquer wrote:

So just to confirm, blue/white/yellow/orange mobs will work as they do today regardless of participation, but participation will get you an exp bonus over what you get today?

No, I don't think you read that very carefully.

You only get encounter bonus xp (around 50% of the xp I see when leveling) if you are not on the hatelist of atleast one mob in the encounter.   So if the encounter dies in one shot (as they frequently do), you get no bonus xp.

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