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Old 07-16-2012, 08:55 AM   #1
Fairin

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Welcome to the Troubador Suggestions and feedback summary from my experience of being a endgame raiding troubador over the last year. I've been asked several times to do this with my idea's and extensive understanding of game mechanics to provide our game dev's with feedback from the front lines. as i see it.

so here, we'll have a go at it we'll Start with a few of my suggestions and Requests (can be taken to dirges and casters as well)

1. Removal of Concentration slots on -all- songs. sounds abit extreme but hear me out on this. compare to mage classes and priest classes, they have a few buffs to spend conc slots on, and a buff to pass out that normally takes up one, examples are blade of ro, (wiz) fire seed (conj) just as pure examples this will lead into my idea for....

2. adding a Concentration slot requirement for... Jesters Cap, and UpBeat tempo, meaning we could pass out up to 5 buffs to our group and or raid which would bring a -lot- more desire for us as a class. however i do see this as an incredible OP thing, so limit the Jcap to 2 max targets like it is currently (although i would settle for 3)

the above would remove the tediousness of maintaining a jcap rotation while maintaining the balance and not have to deal with the sad faced necro and warlock when we're grouped with a pair of them that both want UT

 3. Close the Gap of "class specific abilities" that are usefull in raid between Dirges and Troubadors, Examples are Dirges Res and remove sickness, Stoneskin on demand and heal on demand, these are all highly beneficial to raids as well as groups, a Troubador's answer to these abilities are Lullaby (mez) and Charm (short short duration) both of which epic mobs are immune too. the point of this specific request is also a community request for suggestions, to add to our "utility" because when i raid i toss out my (1) UT buff to a warlock, jcap my self and whoever. and then im just a DPS. would benefit from my 2nd suggestion of not overbearing us with too much tedious work while trying to be an asset to the raid force in more ways than just dps.

Spell Feedback, Troubador

Perfect Shrill, current form is well, perfect. its fast. does high damage, decent reuse and with pristege resets Painfull Lamentations.

Painfull Lamentaitons, this spell casts pathetically slow, i understand its meant to be an aoe spell, but it feels like im "Trundleing" to cast this spell inbetween swings and timeing my auto attacks to cope with its 1.25 casting time (when everything else is blazingly fast) dropping this down to 0.75 would be highly ideal.

Thunderous Overture. our PBAoE, great spell but could benefit from getting its cast time lowered to 0.75 like PL ^ i would also like it to check and see if there are any enemies in "range" before letting it cast without a target to hit, if possible making my macros work a little bit in my favor instead of trying to cast it repeatedly when im trying to stay  at max cast.. with my casters... which i'll comment on in a moment

Breathtaking Bellow: i reccomend this being 100% chance to knockdown with max AA spent in it, at least for PvE, otherwise its instant and randomly works and doesnt take a global cooldown.

Chaos Anthem: a very "minor" Encounter dot that also decreases wisdom, with pristege also heals the group for a pathetically "minor" ammount over time. My suggestion for this is to change the Effect, in humor suggestion a "random" effect, that is in theroy Chaos right? . pick any troub spell cast it on the encounter, or as a benefit for casting it . our next spell double casts. more notes in the aa pristege section.

Counter Song: Nearly perfect, its Recast is terrible just plain terrible drop it to 1 min and i might use it more than on pull every other boss fight.

Vexing Verses: very pathetic damage, and makes mobs abilities take longer to cast ( i never .. ever notice this) drops target def and makes them use more mana on cast *which NPC's Use mana to cast...*, also this spell has a pathetically short . short range, Suggestion: Change Effect , Increase Range. Increase Damage. this spell just does not get in on my "Rotation" due to range, and the debuff just doesnt seem to "Effect" NPC's i can imagine it being drastic in pvp however... but seriously. who plays pvp...

Nondamaging debuff trio: Disheatening Descant, Zander's Choral Rebuff, Demoralizing Processional, These Debuffs without the pristege, are fairly minimal even if they "are" encounter, 1900 elemental resist, 400 str/agi, against monsters its very hard to see any differance (if at all) wis and int debuffs to mobs dont do anything. would it be so bad if these debuffs did an encounter dot similiar to Chaos anthem?

Jesters Cap: Current form is perfect however i do have the suggestion listed above to remove the irritating tediousness of the spell. - what i would like to see is having reuse over cap give a bonus so i dont feel bad about skiping over casters who would like the priestege buff and 10% more critbonus from my cap's

Tap Essence: Currently- does minimal Encounter damage, restores a minimal ammount of mana to the troubadors group - My problem with this spell is its pathetically short mana restoration to the group range. The range on the spell is the same as others but the Mana restore is like maybe 10 meters, i would like to see this mana restore range increased. Also a Suggestion i have is to make the Mana restore "raid wide" that wouldnt be excrucitateingly OP would it? i get constantly skipped over for my mana regening abilities in the first place... - Suggestion 2, if made RW and its too OP. have it do normal mana restore to the troubs group and 50% of that to the raid, just so stacking troubs dont break certian hardmode encounters. or at least require less "enchanters to win"

Depressing Chant: the Bard Snare, also lowers targets Arcane resist by 4k, Suggestions: breaks too easily especally since Troubadors do damage by proc effects, which each has a chance to break it, even the spell itself has a chance to break it. the Arcane resist doesnt appear to be that all helpfull in my playtesting. also the Range is pathetically short like Vexing Verses. i would suggest either making the snare breaks only effect spellcasts. not procs, not that anyone actually uses the snare effect. otherwise making this high damage DoT instead of an arcane resist wouldn't be a bad idea to add it to my rotation.

Lullaby: Mezes target, does not effect epic mobs, completely worthless in raids, and in groups no one respects mez in the first place, and even the most crappily geared group still doesnt let a bard mez. even when i put giant pink stars on my mez macro tanks still manage to target it and break mez immidately... worthless in current form. Suggestion, Troubador res !, no seriously why is that a dirge only niche?

Bria's Entrancing Sonnet: Charms Target (short duration), doesnt effect epic mobs. so its completely worthless in raids as well, and in groups. ive had people get exceedingly upset with me for charming a mob, not only does it not let the tank gen threat on it. its not very reliable and is just a wasted slot in many a group. Suggestion: take this spell and Lullaby and give us a res! or i'll settle with a different buff with a troubador flavor, community suggesitions can help out here...

Perfection of the Maestro: Rw buff , spell casts proc damage. Current form feels a little bit "weak" when compared too an Enchanters PoM which does the same damage, but effects both combat arts and spells. Suggestion, slight increase damage, from light to medium -i.e. 20k to 30k, or have it also increase base spell damage while active.

Spells Provided by AA's

Abhorrent Verse: 50% of groups threat is transfered to Target, lasts 15 seconds, and Doesn't effect Fighters. Suggestions: Reuse can be a pain sometimes when you need it, not effecting fighters is more of a ??? why not? and lastly what i would like to see is this turning into a Sustained threat transfer costing a Concentration slot, but only 10 or 15% but not under 10% to a target of my choice, includeing my self if i so wanted.

Blade Dance:  group wide AoE prevent, reuse time on this spell -kills me- it makes me want to pull my whiskers out while compareing to say, T-shell from your fury.

Deadly Dance: Groupwide, Casting while moving, those within 5 meters (touching distance?) get a buff for 20% more damage on spellcast / combat arts. :Suggestion increase the buff range. OR - Make it raid wide. those near the Bard get the buff, includeing the cast while moving. that would probably make more people choose this over Cadence...

Cadence of Destruction: Increases Potency by 20 to 40% over time, and finally does 3 very high damage hits in a row (similiar to perfectshrill) decent Recast and makes all your personal dps go up, very nice and is a solid choice over Deadly Dance cause its difficult enough to "Herd" your casters around you for 20% more damage on all abilities, one of the prime reasons i picked this before..

Energizeing Ballad: Mana Restore - Over time, Single Target long reuse / duration, in its current form its worthless while raiding. sometimes in group instances it can save the day. - Suggestions: this needs to be a Group / raid wide effect period, its just too worthless to give 1 person mana, lets take for instance the Dozekar fight, the Off tank gets drained of mana by the adds. if i cast this on him. he will get 1 or 2 beneficial ticks of this before an Enchanter gives him 20% or more of his mana back, waste of an AA / spell cast for me since he also restored his group of mana.

Rythmic Overture/Victorious Concerto: RO / VC , Ro charges, VC unleashes the Beast. perfect in form, however i would like the AA that makes you immune to some stuff, make you immune to "everything" that prevents you from charging it.

Sonic Interference: Very Minor Dot, unique effect of reduceing everyones dot's tick timer by 30% (still amazed theres troubs that dont take this) and a 50% chance on "tick" to interrupt spell cast: Suggestions, reduce the ammount of time inbetween "ticks" Lowering its Duration if nessary, reductions for this in PVP if that balance is a concern

Songs, and "Songs" granted by AA

Besides my Generic Request to remove conc' slots...

Allegretto: Increases groupwide Melee haste, 33% unmoded at master. this needs to be Raidwide, or have an additional effect to stay on my song roster. unless its Conc slot is removed.

Arcane Symphony: this gives the group 2k more Arcane resist, which is so far form worthless in current form, however the AA that makes it give a raid wide ward (lol 500?) and can cure Arcane effects, make it exceedingly usefull, on 2 fights that come to mind...

Elemental Concerto: Same as Above, but redicliously more usefull as far more damaging elemental effects are cast, Perfect in current form minus conc slot.

Alin's Serene Serenade: Aggro Controll song, -42%. very usefull, would be exceedingly op if made raidwide but wouldn't really hurt the lower geared tanks from braving a raid

Gracefull Avoidance: Increases Def, adds mit with AA, and with pristege adds a minor chance to "dodge" generically perfect in form. could benefit from being Raidwide

Raxxyl's Rousing Tune: Increases Agi , Int and Wis, generically not worth a conc slot. wouldnt shed a tear if this changed, Suggestion: make RW

Rejuvenating Celebration: Increases Health, and increases health regen by a really tiny ammount per tick, with pristege this gets 5% more to max health, which is incredibly good. occasionally see myself with more hp than the tanks, needs to be RW imho

Song of Magic: Increases Spellcasting skills and Focus by a whole heck of a lot, .. Which doesnt seem to do anything: Suggestion, change Effect, make Spellcasting Leach hp by a minor ammount, or even mana? * or have an effect change based on what you do, Combat Arts drain health, Spells drain mana, Healing wards the target of damage.

Selo's Accelerando: Increases Runspeed , Suggestion: Raidwide, wouldnt really be that bad would it?

Song of Shielding: Single Target, group friend gets to use my avoidance 40% of the time, doesnt see much use in reality as i normally dont have a tank in my group, or i am the tank. : Suggestion, Make it able to target someone out of my group, *or* Make it target my Whole group, since it is a "song" it should work on those listening to me right?.

Resonance: Increases the range of spells by 5, and with AA increases their radius and reduces mana cost, doesnt seem to increase the radius of spells by very much, as most "aoe spells" are 10 meters. a 20% increase to 10 is 2, however the range is nice. but doesnt effect combat arts. which . for the troubador at least it should effect.

Harmonization: a personal favorite of mine, decreases duration of all heals and dots, by 10%. increases the length of everything else, exceedingly good, would be incredibly OP if made raidwide, so i guess this can stay group.

Bria's Inspiring Ballad: Pathetically low mana regen over time, Suggestion: make RW to be usefull of a conc slot, otherwise remove conc slot, or add an effect to it, something inspireing like when you take damage you put a Heal over time on yourself.

Requiem of Reflection: Spell reflect + stoneskin, seems a hit an miss, and with priestege adds 5% more healing done, i dont get to see much use of this due to lack of conc slots...

Aria of Magic: makes the group have a "small chance" that gets up to 54% with focus and aa's, not counting enchanter / shaman buffs. its also the song our Myth "buffs" increaseing spell damage by 10%. - no real complaints here, except when i die it likes to turn itself off making me recast it, though i could see it being RW, and not be completely OP (since really the majority of casters are in my group in the first place)

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Old 07-16-2012, 08:56 AM   #2
Fairin

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Combat Arts:   as a foreward to this section i would like to point out that i no longer have room in my "dps rotation" to even think about useing combat arts, i even went as far as switching to useing my bow so i can stand next to my casters who do not like getting up in melee range. to use deadly dance so the raid benefits. our combat arts are just to weak in comparason

Bump: behind only. puts bard in stealth, does minor damage twice the recast of any spell, and turns off auto attack. Suggestion, have it cast night strike simotaniously and not turn off auto atk or put in stealth, or have it remove the stealth component from Night strike

Ceremonial Blade: Double hit of Light damage, this Does Mental damage, shouldnt it be considered a spell? i'd like that if it didnt do such low damage.

Cheap Shot: Single Target Stun, worthless in raids, well, its a stun whats not to like stuns outside of raids. no complaints/suggestions from me.

Dancing Blade: Behind only, Medium Light damage, also provides a resist debuff that doesnt seem to do anything, Suggestion, fix light damage attacks like these. they just dont compare...

Evade: de-hate and taunts like these are worthless just plain worthless, they need to do positionals, or have the effect increased by over 10x the ammount currently in game - Example, i hit a mob for 1 million damage auto atk, with my -50% threat that would add up to 500k threat, Evade lowers my hate gain by 25k! woo hoo!! , (disclaimer, numbers used are approximates, when i auto for 1 million dmg i rip. period)

Evasive Manuvers: de-positonal, essentially what ^ should have been

Messangers Letter: target hategain + very light dmg, also requires standing still Suggestion: i would like to see this gain a positional + to my Target, if that target is the mob, and the mob is not targeting a tank. it does a depositional, otherwise i dont even think people know this ability exsists.

Night Strike: Medium Damage stealth only ability, the only one troubs have, Suggestion is Remove it and add it as a 2nd effect to bump, making it strike Simultaneously

Rythm Blade: Lightish Medium damage, gives a Self buff to spell and weapon skills, Suggestion: why not make this a group buff when used, its not that much to be so OP really..

Round Bash: Light damage, Single Target Knockdown, really i only have this to knock someone down in a duel... really

Sandra's Deafing Strike: Light damage, Mana Leach, . no suggestions. could be a spell and ranged tho... " sounds like it" =)

Singing Shot: Double hit of Lightish Medium Damage, already twice as good dmg as most other combat arts, and its ranged, only drawback is you have to stand still while casting it, Suggestions: Make it considered a "spell" and move while casting

Sinister Strike: the Master strike, Does Heavy damage nearly 4 times as much damage as other combat arts in some cases, made up for its long reuse, why cant other combat arts his this hard?

Turnstrike: Lightish medium damage + personal aoe prevent, its fine in current form although i would like a "spell" version.

Alternate Advancement: Bard Foreward to this section, i will briefly summarize these with strengths and weakness and suggestions without listing every single thing, its getting late, maybe if i was so inclined to fix it later or of the community wishes it...

Strength Line: 1, Turnstrike, no complaints besides low damage increase secondary effect doesnt change. BladeTurn, increases def skill on 1 song, not by too terribly much*25%*, "Weak". BladeSing, increases stat songs by 5% per rank, very Weak, as 5% of 100 is 5.. big deal. Blade Dance, ^ see above.. .too long reuse

Agility Line: Bump: written suggestions above, Wayfarers Watch : worthless in current form i do like the parry on it however but the 1% to absorb a lv 92 effect is just.. cant it add something else?. Poison Concoction Light damage+light dot proc for free, whats not to like? A+ here. could benefit from gear however ... more than it does right now. Dodge and Cover: very very nice, really approving of this one. only one thing is its limitation of 10 targets when it says " group friend" cant remember the last time i grouped with 10 players in one "group" non raid... make RW please =)

Stamina Line: Round Bash ^ above in combat arts. Skalds defense 1aa for 1% is not enough, MA at raid level is worthless, Fortissimo MA at raid level is worthless, especally when your a troub and dont get to group with other scouts... Lend Shielding: i would really -really- like this but dont have enough 'aa's to waste to get it i would suggest re-writeing the entire Stam tree, and put this first but change it from by to "too" 100% for 5 seconds

Wisdom Line: Messangers' Letter see above^ , Harbingers Sonnet: really small %'s for every aa spent. doesnt seem noticeable in combat. Allegro increases spellcasting speed, worthless, casters are so over spellcast cap its not funny anymore. Don't kill the Messanger: 7.5% crit, i see "so many" troubs useing this it makes me cry tears of blood, no one comes to raid expecting the troub to put them over crit cap, everyone gears for crit before troubs in the first place. Suggestion: have it increase base spell damage by 5%

Intelligence Line: Rythm Blade See above^, Minstrel's Aria, improves casting skills of song of magic by up to 80%, which still in the end isnt that very much, needs more love. Minstrel's Melody increases the Haste song from 33 to 55% at master and 10/10, big deal... very weak. Heroic Story telling: 10% to resist stifle, and 3% arcane and nox dmg reduction, , Big deal on the reduction.. 3% of a 50k nox hit from the golem n droag fight in UD is not going to put a Dent in that (3% of 50k = 1500) and the Stifle "resist" at 10%. just doesnt match up with other endlines, very weak

SF line: Improved Reflexes lowers reuse on Blade Dance, but doesnt matter, it doesnt go below 50% of its 8 min base(yes eight minutes!) Stealthy Ambush: improves bump damage from light to medium, over 8 aa's, Song of Shielding See above. Swift Voices: Add's 32% recovery speed to Allegro, would like to see this get linked to Allegretto instead. Precise Blades: adds an accuracy and resistability component to Rythm blade, doesnt seem to be nessary for resistability, and accuracy is easy to cap now...

Alternate Advancement: Troubador

Already covered most of these abilities, but in summary the "resist" ones (night strike / dancing blade / chaos anthem) ect dont seem to do.. anything waste of space and aa's

Alternate Advancement: Shadows

Pritty Generic across the board but the Troub line... is 2.5% for 5 aa's too little? for health, on Aria of Health.. was this meant to be a song?. it does say song.. but apparently i hum it to myself..

Alternate Advancement: Heroic

Song Spiners note: no seriously.. what is this.. it sounds cool in text... if it would actually .. do something besides very light damage? heres a Suggestion for it, make it compete with Deadly Dance and Cadence of Destruction. make it do 400k damage base, count as a spell. have a 30 second reuse, and apply the 3 effects on it as such, fighters up to 10 meters from target gain 10% heals and wards buff, Scouts Around target gain 15% reuse, and Casters / Healers get a Ward, or de positional

(lol fairin 400k dmg base?, yes im serious, Cadence alone does 3 hits of 100k+ and potency that grows over 33 seconds that adds to all your damage.... you dont really want to know how much damage deadly dance does if done correctly with a dps squad that knows how to use it...)

Alternate Advancement: Pristege

Invigorateing Ballad: Grants 3 buffs for 3 aa's to 3 songs, 5% increased healing, 5% health and 3% dodge (and removes conc slot) overall A+

Soul Sonata: Adds "Buffs from Debuffs" Zanders makes group proc damage (small chance needs to be RW, what i would like to see is zanders putting a debuff on the boss that when it takes spell damage, the troub does the zanders proc much like a coercer) "Stat debuffs dont add very much at all. and Chaos Anthem restores health to the group, at the rate of 2k every 5 seconds. its not noticeable.. really - Practical Example, in raid last night, healer dies to AoE, entire Group was dropped to 20% hp, my heal tick goes off. twice. healing for 4k in the time it took for our healer to get resed, not saying  i should replace a healer, but if it was more noticeable. say 5k per tick then maybe it'd be an asset

Paralytic Venom: Decreases targets Potency by 3%, stacks with other scouts. and lasts 10 seconds... i dont think -anyone- takes this.. any scout at all...

Advance Scout: gives you a tiny chance to flurry group wide. compared to the bard buffs above. this is worthless especally since we're the only scout in group normally...

-- Left Tree --

Song of Conservation: adds a useless effect to a useless spell, this needs rethinked from start to even begin to compete with jester's ruse

Soul Tap: makes the group wide short ranged mana restore have a chance to reset a useless spell.. does not compare in anywayshape or form to style and presence

Song Weaver: 30MA = 1% crit bonus. at the penality of having to skip out on jester's ruse and SNP, for these two ^

-- Right Tree --

Jester's Ruse: makes Jesters Cap Bawss. adding a procing damage effect , very A+

Style and Presence: Makes Perfect shrill reset the recast of Painfull lamentations.  this is very awesome and attributes to my new playstyle 100% allowing me a 3 spell combo, which further negates the desire for me to do any combat arts

SteelSing: 20 haste = 1% potency, when the other choice is taking Song of Conversion, advance scout, or the paralzing poison, its just painfull not to take , normally sitting at 400 haste in the first place. the 20% potency never hurts. A+ here

so there we have it, as promised i wrote it for sticky suggestion. and community suggestions. still theres alot of work that could be done, and idea's that could pan out to other characters.

and im serious about the "give me a res spell like a dirge" its not that i want to take their job, i'd just like something else i could do to replace my useless spells.

and as an Added bonus

Ayonic Inspiration: our mythical weapon buff, currently gives 10% spell damage on aria of Magic, and proc's 2.4 times a min Ayonic Hymn, which increases our crit by 15% and does a very light ammount of damage, Suggestion, remove the Crit chance and make it equal to a Dirge's mythical.  Just Troubador flavored, instead of 25% flurry make it 25% doublecast and potency

Savior Fairin, Avatar of the Sky(shrine!) - Eternal Destiny Antonia Bayle Server

PS someone proof read this.. its 8 am.. *zzzzz*

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Old 07-16-2012, 08:56 AM   #3
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Basic Summary:

1 Tap Essence - needs its power regen "Range" boosted, the total ammount could use some assistance as well.

2. Energizing Ballad -  suggestion 1: make this effect a group - targeted like a coercers mana flow

suggestion 2: redesign, make it a buff that makes Tap Essence effect the whole raid when used?

3 Deadly Dance - please for the love of Rallos increase the range on the secondary effect.

4 Songspinner's note - this is ability, it's my personal belief that 99% of the community doesn't know it exsists. thats how terrible it is in its current form =( suggestion, make this ability deal as much damage as Cadence and change the buffs to what people would desire. casters desire spell doublecast, melee desire flurry, tanks desire mitigation priests desire uninterruptable spells

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Old 07-16-2012, 12:06 PM   #4
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Well done. You've summarized just about everything perfectly. Some minor editing for grammar and spelling would make this an excellent candidate for being made "sticky."

One small thing: While combining Bump and Nightstrike into one spell would be nice, perhaps we're asking a bit too much from our apparently overworked devs. I have simply macroed them to one button and live with the casting time of two CA's.

One big thing: Troubs are invariably assigned to the caster group which means we often have an Illy with us so no one notices that we never, ever sing Bria's Inspiring Ballad.  Sometimes we don't have an Illy or we aren't in the caster group. SOE, in its infinite wisdom, has provided us with the ability to regen power, implying that we are actually expected to do so sometimes; so is it too much to ask that the amount of power we can regen be actually useful?

Huge thing: Eight minute recast on Bladedance? Really?  Even with eight points spent on the SF recast reduction,  plat spent reforging for Spell Reuse, JCap and other buffs to recast time; I can still, maybe, use this on every other pull.  In UD raid zone, for instance, on the Nether wings, I need it on every pull. I also play a raiding Fury and could cast Tortoise Shell on every single pull if I wanted to.

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Old 07-17-2012, 12:46 PM   #5
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Great post. Too bad only a handful of people will see it.

To go along with the theme here, I personally would love to see many of our ca's converted to ranged attacks. Like you pointed out, for the mages to get maximum effect of our verious buffs, we need to be back standing with them. Turn us into mini-superlite rangers with buffs. I don't need a great parse, just don't let healers out parse me. But I do, for now, lose a lot of dps if I'm back where I need to be supporting our mages.

I'm not concerned with combining ca's or spells. Heck, I can push buttons as good as the rest of them.

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Old 07-17-2012, 07:08 PM   #6
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I must say very nicely put together Fairin.

Here are some ideas I have that might help us.

First instead of a rez or rezzes give us some more power regen capabiltity.  A rez just does not fit the flavor of a Troubadour to me.  The Dirge sings songs of death, they have a heal (all be it a useless heal) for them it fits. For us it does not.  Give Energizing Ballad more oomph as well as Tap Essence.  Maybe make Energizing Ballad a group power feed instead of single target. Possibly increase the amount of power leached from Tap Essence.  It is true that generally there is an Illusionist in our group but if we could help with power regen that would be great.  It would give us more of a purpose.  Right now I cast Upbeat Tempo and then cast Jester's cap on myself (macroed with RO) and then alternate Jester's cap on a select 2 people.  Heck , maybe add a component to Jester's cap to decrease power used.  Everyone wants it but it's for the potency not what the base spell provides. Everyone is way capped on that.

Second remove our Mezz and Charm. I removed them from my hot bar a long time ago.  There has to be something else anything else.  Possibly make these power feeds of some sort.

Third Bladedance... I have a Bladedance spec in my mirror but I don't run with it nor do the Dirges in my raid force.  I just see it as pointless.  I run with a Warden in my group she could cast TS twice by the time Bladedance was up again.  The re-use on it would be a start.

Fourth maybe making more of our Combat Arts ranged wouldn't be a bad idea.  Most of the time we are back with our mages and while I can sometimes find the perfect balance between my group and using all of my abilities if everything was ranged it would be so much easier.  We don't need the dps of a Ranger but more ranged would be good.

That's all I can think of at the moment. If I think of more I will gladly post it.

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I am Nature's Wrath incarnate like the fire I destroy and rejuvenate~Tetriemmy Windfoot
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:47 PM   #7
Fairin

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Yeah, i did mention those already for Energizeing ballad and tap essence Lisemanta =) making them raid wide would simply fix it, or group wide on the ballad, might as well change its name to serenade =)

if i remember correctly assassins . or was it swashbucklers.. can increase the range of their combat arts...

also our summer raidforce seems to be missing dirges as of late, it'd be nice to have another class that can res that isnt a healer (whats a necro anyway?). i wouldnt shed tears about not having it. but having something usefull like that for the raid would generally make me happy. im currently the Jack of All trades (tanking healing dpsing cureing while i have pact of nature! just missing out on my reses when i dont wanna use my signets...) =(^.-.^)= hehe

gonna write up a "how to play a troub" post , "PROBABLY after gu 64" and give clear indications of style

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Old 07-18-2012, 06:18 PM   #8
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I need to change my idea for making our ca's into ranged attacks...just remembered, I don't have a woodworker for all the extra arrows I would need . Just give all my ca's a range of 50 meters instead!!!

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Old 07-18-2012, 10:21 PM   #9
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Sorry to repeat. I should have put an "I agree" in there regarding the power regen ideas. 

There has to be something else other than a rez though that we could recieve.  There has to be something that is more in line with who we are. I have 3 Necros in my mage group two of which rez. We also have 2 dirges. I really don't think a Rez would make me uber more useful. I'll give you that my raidforce is a bit Atypical.  What my raidforce seems to lack is chanters.  There are more classes with rezzes than with power regen.  Allowing us to power feed groups would be good, but I think feeding the entire raid is a bit much (not even Coercers can do that)

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Old 07-20-2012, 05:45 AM   #10
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@jeep, lol 50 meters . thats a long blade strike there son. think more like 5 more would be generally sufficent without a change to deadly dance

@lisemanta, coercers and illys can power feed the whole raid through use of macros, besides im talking about hits of tap essence (from me) it restores 1500~1650 mana every hit, that wouldnt be too utterly gamebreaking to be rw, but we "really" felt it last night with just one illy for mana regen, luckily we had 3 troubs. and they still ran out of mana... due to the tiny tiny range of it...

@everyone. pm me typos in that post.. i cant see straight apparently someone else will find something i miss

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Old 07-20-2012, 08:07 PM   #11
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In large part, I agree whole heartedly, first thing I tell any new troub I see, or when someone asks for suggestions is to just take Bria's Inspiring Ballad off your hotbar and forget it exists...even mastered and fully AAed its utterly useless at any level, and Tap Essence will regen epic amounts by comparison.

As for the charm/mez...they are useful solo, and at times in a small group, the mez moreso then the charm .

Energizing Ballad....usually a complete waste...tho at times it has been a saving grace.

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Old 07-25-2012, 12:18 PM   #12
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Fairin wrote:

@jeep, lol 50 meters . thats a long blade strike there son. think more like 5 more would be generally sufficent without a change to deadly dance

Hey if you're going to wish... Wish big! Don't go wasting your wishes on small piddly stuff. 

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Old 07-28-2012, 02:08 AM   #13
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Troubs are fine.

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Old 07-30-2012, 03:38 PM   #14
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I personally..

Do not think that we need a boost..Especially like what your asking for, that is way to extreme.

Dirges have their uses in raids, boosting melee and rezzing/curing sickness..

And Troubs have theirs, buffing casters.Been that way since launch, even says it on the create a new character tab.

The only thing I would like lowered is the recast on Bladedance.With other classes being able to toss up blockers every 2-3 minutes.. It would be nice if we could toss a group one up as well, but the 50% reuse cap kind of kills that.

Making everything raidwide is NOT A FIX..That will just make it so you only need to run with one Troub and lock it in place to stay that way.

Dirges have one main raidwide buff.. CoB.. which effects melee..Troubs have theirs.. Maestro.. which effects spells.

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Old 07-30-2012, 04:41 PM   #15
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Iowna wrote:

I personally..

Do not think that we need a boost..Especially like what your asking for, that is way to extreme.

Dirges have their uses in raids, boosting melee and rezzing/curing sickness..

And Troubs have theirs, buffing casters.Been that way since launch, even says it on the create a new character tab.

The only thing I would like lowered is the recast on Bladedance.With other classes being able to toss up blockers every 2-3 minutes.. It would be nice if we could toss a group one up as well, but the 50% reuse cap kind of kills that.

Making everything raidwide is NOT A FIX..That will just make it so you only need to run with one Troub and lock it in place to stay that way.

Dirges have one main raidwide buff.. CoB.. which effects melee..Troubs have theirs.. Maestro.. which effects spells.

Here's my problem(s).

1. With the giant increase in skills including health and mana pools for our toons and for the bad guys that we try to kill, our buffs just haven't increased in the same percentage. Therefor our spells are becoming less effective.

2. Many (most) of our spells do things that don't matter in any way shape or form. ooooh...I just decreased that guys wisdom by 100... he's GOT to be down to 10K by now..ooooh. Just cleaning up our spells would make me very happy. Get rid of things that do nothing that matters, would prefer they got replaced with something useful but not counting on it.

3. Seeing less and less casters in raids. With the monster benefits that the Beastlords are bringing I'm seeing less casters. As our casters leave the guild (threw normal turnover) they are being replaced by BLs. On a good night, not counting the still needed bug eyed, finger wigglers (Coercers and Illusionist) we are lucky to have two casters on. On a great night we have three. We now have three Beastloards though. Although there is nothing that can be done to the Troubadour class to change this, it is showing a deminished need for more then one Troub in a raiding guild. Having talked to other Troubs in other guilds, they are seeing the same thing. So now you are looking at one Troub and three Dirges becoming the norm.

4. Nothing here changes the fact that we are neither a priority or even in SoE's thought process at all. Face it, if we disappear tomorrow there wouldn't be a whole lot of people screaming about it. Especially since probably less then 25% of people out there really know the abilities of Troubs.

5. I expect no fixes by SoE. They are going to be too busy for a long time fixing their massive screw up with bringing out recklessness. Between that and thier obsession with making more stuff to sell on SC, I don't expect our concerns to ever be addressed. Plus they really need to fix Templars next from what I hear. And since SoE's normal way of fixing things is to nerf it, or completely mess it up, I'm happy just playing my troub with no one showing any concern for us, warts and all.

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Old 07-31-2012, 01:17 AM   #16
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Jeepned2 wrote:

Iowna wrote:

Here's my problem(s).

1. With the giant increase in skills including health and mana pools for our toons and for the bad guys that we try to kill, our buffs just haven't increased in the same percentage. Therefor our spells are becoming less effective.

Maestro throws in 10k DPS for me.. Now add up every other caster on PoW trash.. CoB does less then 1k.. From the proc, then of course it adds other stuff but still. 1k ?..

New expansion comes upgraded spells from what we have now, and that will fix your damage that we get from them.

2. Many (most) of our spells do things that don't matter in any way shape or form. ooooh...I just decreased that guys wisdom by 100... he's GOT to be down to 10K by now..ooooh. Just cleaning up our spells would make me very happy. Get rid of things that do nothing that matters, would prefer they got replaced with something useful but not counting on it.

That is just debuffs all around right now, that is not a change to us that will fix that, it is a change to the overall debuff structure, and our 4-5 debuffs are nothing compared to what Brigs have and other scouts.

3. Seeing less and less casters in raids. With the monster benefits that the Beastlords are bringing I'm seeing less casters. As our casters leave the guild (threw normal turnover) they are being replaced by BLs. On a good night, not counting the still needed bug eyed, finger wigglers (Coercers and Illusionist) we are lucky to have two casters on. On a great night we have three. We now have three Beastloards though. Although there is nothing that can be done to the Troubadour class to change this, it is showing a deminished need for more then one Troub in a raiding guild. Having talked to other Troubs in other guilds, they are seeing the same thing. So now you are looking at one Troub and three Dirges becoming the norm.

Just because your guild cannot recruit or does not recruit the neccessary classes to fill out a raid, has no bearing on how classes should work or have worked throughout the game since launch.Every group should have a Enchanter, Bard, and Healer (sometimes two).. Then fill the rest with classes that fit the Bard/Enchanter types you have in those groups so that you can form actual feasible groups.

4. Nothing here changes the fact that we are neither a priority or even in SoE's thought process at all. Face it, if we disappear tomorrow there wouldn't be a whole lot of people screaming about it. Especially since probably less then 25% of people out there really know the abilities of Troubs.

What the OP is asking for, is a complete redesign of the entire class, you won't find that happening, I am sorry.  If they did it to us, they would be forced to do it to every single class in the game, and that is just too much to ask for.

You should instead be asking for stuff that you want in the next expansion instead, and again.. the OP has way too much listed and it is all redesigned stuff for the class opposed to an actual feasible list of what would be nice to have next expansion.  Nothing could really even be picked from this massive list and put into the next expansion, it wouldn't work.  And personally, I wouldn't want most of it as it would throw us WAY out of balance.  We are NOT A T1 DPS class.

5. I expect no fixes by SoE. They are going to be too busy for a long time fixing their massive screw up with bringing out recklessness. Between that and thier obsession with making more stuff to sell on SC, I don't expect our concerns to ever be addressed. Plus they really need to fix Templars next from what I hear. And since SoE's normal way of fixing things is to nerf it, or completely mess it up, I'm happy just playing my troub with no one showing any concern for us, warts and all.

They are too busy making a new expansion.. and fixing bugs that actually hinder game play.

I can throw out 3-400k DPS and rank in top 6 of my guild for DPS at least 50% of the time typically.. I am happy, learn to play with what you have and you will be to.

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Old 07-31-2012, 12:25 PM   #17
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that would be totally boss if they freely took all the suggestions written, however the point of suggestions, is comming from our end raiding standpoint, and various group standpoints. any one of the changes would be a huge step in the right direction.

the point is to fix abilities, so they actually help us, take for instance tap essence, sure the encounter aoe is 40+ meters. but the secondary effect is very small. maybe 7 tops. Deadly dance is another one.

besides this is a suggestion thread. not a qq thread, im well aware we are "fine" its just how i see it, feel free to post your own suggestions

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Old 07-31-2012, 01:43 PM   #18
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Iowna wrote:

Jeepned2 wrote:

Iowna wrote:

Here's my problem(s).

1. With the giant increase in skills including health and mana pools for our toons and for the bad guys that we try to kill, our buffs just haven't increased in the same percentage. Therefor our spells are becoming less effective.

Maestro throws in 10k DPS for me.. Now add up every other caster on PoW trash.. CoB does less then 1k.. From the proc, then of course it adds other stuff but still. 1k ?..

New expansion comes upgraded spells from what we have now, and that will fix your damage that we get from them.

OK you picked one buff out of 14? Our buffs are not keeping up. We have buffs that add 1200 health..ooooo, that 75K health tank in recklessness mode really likes that, so does the fury with 60K health.

2. Many (most) of our spells do things that don't matter in any way shape or form. ooooh...I just decreased that guys wisdom by 100... he's GOT to be down to 10K by now..ooooh. Just cleaning up our spells would make me very happy. Get rid of things that do nothing that matters, would prefer they got replaced with something useful but not counting on it.

That is just debuffs all around right now, that is not a change to us that will fix that, it is a change to the overall debuff structure, and our 4-5 debuffs are nothing compared to what Brigs have and other scouts.

I didn't say this is excusively a bard problem. It's a laziness problem on SoE's part.

3. Seeing less and less casters in raids. With the monster benefits that the Beastlords are bringing I'm seeing less casters. As our casters leave the guild (threw normal turnover) they are being replaced by BLs. On a good night, not counting the still needed bug eyed, finger wigglers (Coercers and Illusionist) we are lucky to have two casters on. On a great night we have three. We now have three Beastloards though. Although there is nothing that can be done to the Troubadour class to change this, it is showing a deminished need for more then one Troub in a raiding guild. Having talked to other Troubs in other guilds, they are seeing the same thing. So now you are looking at one Troub and three Dirges becoming the norm.

Just because your guild cannot recruit or does not recruit the neccessary classes to fill out a raid, has no bearing on how classes should work or have worked throughout the game since launch.Every group should have a Enchanter, Bard, and Healer (sometimes two).. Then fill the rest with classes that fit the Bard/Enchanter types you have in those groups so that you can form actual feasible groups.

You totally missed the point on this one. It's not that we can't recruit mages, we aren't looking to recruit mages. Why recruit a Wizard that only does dps when you can have a Beastlord that is super flexible and does the same or better dps? I'm back to 3 dirges and 1 troub. And now with with recklessness tanks doing godly dps, even a bigger reason to bypass mages.

4. Nothing here changes the fact that we are neither a priority or even in SoE's thought process at all. Face it, if we disappear tomorrow there wouldn't be a whole lot of people screaming about it. Especially since probably less then 25% of people out there really know the abilities of Troubs.

What the OP is asking for, is a complete redesign of the entire class, you won't find that happening, I am sorry.  If they did it to us, they would be forced to do it to every single class in the game, and that is just too much to ask for.

You should instead be asking for stuff that you want in the next expansion instead, and again.. the OP has way too much listed and it is all redesigned stuff for the class opposed to an actual feasible list of what would be nice to have next expansion.  Nothing could really even be picked from this massive list and put into the next expansion, it wouldn't work.  And personally, I wouldn't want most of it as it would throw us WAY out of balance.  We are NOT A T1 DPS class.

Yes he is asking for a complete redesign. And nobody expects that. Though by the tone of my post that you would understand I don't expect anything from SOE. I also know it is a huge waste of time asking for "stuff" for next expansion. It's not happening. We are too small a comunity for SOE to waste their precious resorces on. Just not happening. This is all more of a dreamers post. "In a perfect Troubadour world".. well it's not a Troubadour world.

5. I expect no fixes by SoE. They are going to be too busy for a long time fixing their massive screw up with bringing out recklessness. Between that and thier obsession with making more stuff to sell on SC, I don't expect our concerns to ever be addressed. Plus they really need to fix Templars next from what I hear. And since SoE's normal way of fixing things is to nerf it, or completely mess it up, I'm happy just playing my troub with no one showing any concern for us, warts and all.

They are too busy making a new expansion.. and fixing bugs that actually hinder game play.

My goodness, you say that as if you believe that. Fixing bugs that actually hinder game play? Since when? Only and I mean ONLY when it gets to the point of super screw up level does SOE finally fix it. They are too busy with, like you said, new expansions and new stuff they can sell on the SC. /Tell lag is so bad having up to a 25 sec delay right now. Have had it now for almost 3 weeks (when SoE "fixed" something). When I send a tell to someone letting them know they have Jesters Cap for 33 secs...well maybe they don't anymore cause now it's almost done. Yeah, SoE is really dedicated to fixing bugs effecting game play.. Right!

I can throw out 3-400k DPS and rank in top 6 of my guild for DPS at least 50% of the time typically.. I am happy, learn to play with what you have and you will be to.

Congrats, so you are in a high level raiding gear. Guess what, you are in the minority. Many of the people here, when they complain about something, it is because of the effects to a group or basic raiding guild. Not all of the people here can even hit one stat cap much less most of them. Put your (Fill in blank here) away, not impressed. And yes if you really read my post, I'm not happy about my Troub, but not too worried about it either, warts and all, it's still my prefered toon.

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Old 08-07-2012, 03:29 PM   #19
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my only comment is if you want any changes to come out of this thread i would recommend using your 3rd reserved post as a summery. the Dev's will only have time to adjust 2 or 3 abilities maybe at the absolute most 4 abilities. So sum up these 2-4 abilities that you absolutely think MUST be changes to fix your class.
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Old 08-07-2012, 04:32 PM   #20
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I've been thinking for awhile about what are some changes that would be reasonable and work? I decided to narrow my focus to one topic power regen:

 

Energizing Ballad: I think decreasing the re-use time of Energizing Ballad would be a good idea. Or leaving the re-use as is and turning it into a group power feed might be better. This ability has the potential to be amazing but re-use time and the fact that it's only single target diminishes that.

 

Tap Essence: As others have mentioned increasing the power gained from this ability would be good.

 

Just these two things would be of great benefit I think. While it would be nice to replace Lullaby and Bria's Entrancing Ballad with more useful abilities like more regen, I highly doubt they will change any abilities that dramatically... Druids complained for years about their charm and mezz (animals) being useless and wanting something completely different and they got a broader charm and mezz which is still useless.

 

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Old 09-21-2012, 11:11 AM   #21
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While I'd love to have no concentration issues, I think it would be OP. Besides, having to figure out which buffs to run when is part of the game.

But I wouldn't say that Troubies are "fine" in the sense that nothing needs to be fixed, & I'd much rather see people coming up with suggestions as to how to fix us, than people who reject the idea entirely just because they think we're "fine."

Right off the top of my head: if SOE eliminated Mez, Charm, & Bria's entirely, I'd never notice. I'm a primarily soloing Troubie, & I can count the number of times I've used those three abilities on 2-3 fingers: Mez once or twice, & Bria's once to no great result. I've long argued that our health buff & Bria's should be one ability, not two. When I first made this suggestion, 3-4 years ago, people howled in protest; I doubt they would now.

The other day, my guildies asked me to run Energizing Ballad. As a level 90 with only 272 AAs at the time ... I don't yet have it. They didn't seem to notice the lack, though if they did they probably blew it off as just another not-fully-experienced Troubie .....

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Old 10-05-2012, 11:20 PM   #22
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Fairin wrote:

Welcome to the Troubador Suggestions and feedback summary from my experience of being a endgame raiding troubador over the last year. I've been asked several times to do this with my idea's and extensive understanding of game mechanics to provide our game dev's with feedback from the front lines. as i see it.

Counter Song: Nearly perfect, its Recast is terrible just plain terrible drop it to 1 min and i might use it more than on pull every other boss fight.

Two Troubs in raid, with this on a 1 min recast, you'd be using it every AE and everything would be simple. It works how it should, as a one off "oh ****" spell.

Vexing Verses: very pathetic damage, and makes mobs abilities take longer to cast ( i never .. ever notice this) drops target def and makes them use more mana on cast *which NPC's Use mana to cast...*, also this spell has a pathetically short . short range, Suggestion: Change Effect , Increase Range. Increase Damage. this spell just does not get in on my "Rotation" due to range, and the debuff just doesnt seem to "Effect" NPC's i can imagine it being drastic in pvp however... but seriously. who plays pvp...

This is the same as every scout classes Snare/Defense debuff they have. If you aren't casting it, you aren't doing your job.

Nondamaging debuff trio: Disheatening Descant, Zander's Choral Rebuff, Demoralizing Processional, These Debuffs without the pristege, are fairly minimal even if they "are" encounter, 1900 elemental resist, 400 str/agi, against monsters its very hard to see any differance (if at all) wis and int debuffs to mobs dont do anything. would it be so bad if these debuffs did an encounter dot similiar to Chaos anthem?

Debuffs. Try doing a raid mob with nobody debuffing and see how your dps goes down. They all add up.

Jesters Cap: Current form is perfect however i do have the suggestion listed above to remove the irritating tediousness of the spell. - what i would like to see is having reuse over cap give a bonus so i dont feel bad about skiping over casters who would like the priestege buff and 10% more critbonus from my cap's

More than enough scouts in a raid to make benefit from the Reuse, and If you are using it to give mages CB over a melee class, you are doing it wrong.

Depressing Chant: the Bard Snare, also lowers targets Arcane resist by 4k, Suggestions: breaks too easily especally since Troubadors do damage by proc effects, which each has a chance to break it, even the spell itself has a chance to break it. the Arcane resist doesnt appear to be that all helpfull in my playtesting. also the Range is pathetically short like Vexing Verses. i would suggest either making the snare breaks only effect spellcasts. not procs, not that anyone actually uses the snare effect. otherwise making this high damage DoT instead of an arcane resist wouldn't be a bad idea to add it to my rotation.

See earlier point about debuffs, and not casting it = Stupid.

Lullaby: Mezes target, does not effect epic mobs, completely worthless in raids, and in groups no one respects mez in the first place, and even the most crappily geared group still doesnt let a bard mez. even when i put giant pink stars on my mez macro tanks still manage to target it and break mez immidately... worthless in current form. Suggestion, Troubador res !, no seriously why is that a dirge only niche?

Every class has a useless spell of some sort. This is one of them. Its useful solo/grouping sometimes.

Bria's Entrancing Sonnet: Charms Target (short duration), doesnt effect epic mobs. so its completely worthless in raids as well, and in groups. ive had people get exceedingly upset with me for charming a mob, not only does it not let the tank gen threat on it. its not very reliable and is just a wasted slot in many a group. Suggestion: take this spell and Lullaby and give us a res! or i'll settle with a different buff with a troubador flavor, community suggesitions can help out here...

See Above.

Perfection of the Maestro: Rw buff , spell casts proc damage. Current form feels a little bit "weak" when compared too an Enchanters PoM which does the same damage, but effects both combat arts and spells. Suggestion, slight increase damage, from light to medium -i.e. 20k to 30k, or have it also increase base spell damage while active.

PoTM is raidwide, PoM isn't. Works well how it is, and for what it does provides good utility for a troub.

Spells Provided by AA's

Abhorrent Verse: 50% of groups threat is transfered to Target, lasts 15 seconds, and Doesn't effect Fighters. Suggestions: Reuse can be a pain sometimes when you need it, not effecting fighters is more of a ??? why not? and lastly what i would like to see is this turning into a Sustained threat transfer costing a Concentration slot, but only 10 or 15% but not under 10% to a target of my choice, includeing my self if i so wanted.

Recast on it is fine. Two troubs in raids generally, rotate it and you can cover all add pops etc you want to use. The reason it doesn't effect fighters? Im sure the fighter in your group probably doesn't want to have all his hate transfered to somebody else.

Blade Dance:  group wide AoE prevent, reuse time on this spell -kills me- it makes me want to pull my whiskers out while compareing to say, T-shell from your fury.

Reuse is fine. If it were the same as T-Shell from a Fury, you'd never get hit by AE's ever. 5 min recast on it with 30s duration, means you can use it wisely, or you can use it for those "oops the tank died and named is going to AE us all" moments.

Deadly Dance: Groupwide, Casting while moving, those within 5 meters (touching distance?) get a buff for 20% more damage on spellcast / combat arts. :Suggestion increase the buff range. OR - Make it raid wide. those near the Bard get the buff, includeing the cast while moving. that would probably make more people choose this over Cadence...

Cast on move and has uses, it could probably use the range of it adjusting slightly, but unless you are putting out massive VC damage due to CoD, it'll provide more group dps.

Energizeing Ballad: Mana Restore - Over time, Single Target long reuse / duration, in its current form its worthless while raiding. sometimes in group instances it can save the day. - Suggestions: this needs to be a Group / raid wide effect period, its just too worthless to give 1 person mana, lets take for instance the Dozekar fight, the Off tank gets drained of mana by the adds. if i cast this on him. he will get 1 or 2 beneficial ticks of this before an Enchanter gives him 20% or more of his mana back, waste of an AA / spell cast for me since he also restored his group of mana.

Another useful for moments when a healers had all his power drained due to a curse etc, or Wizard is being bad with Manaburn.

Rythmic Overture/Victorious Concerto: RO / VC , Ro charges, VC unleashes the Beast. perfect in form, however i would like the AA that makes you immune to some stuff, make you immune to "everything" that prevents you from charging it.

See AA in Heroic Tree.

Songs, and "Songs" granted by AA

Besides my Generic Request to remove conc' slots...

Allegretto: Increases groupwide Melee haste, 33% unmoded at master. this needs to be Raidwide, or have an additional effect to stay on my song roster. unless its Conc slot is removed.

33 haste = 2% more Potency, and 33 haste you plus others in group could reforge into other stats

Arcane Symphony: this gives the group 2k more Arcane resist, which is so far form worthless in current form, however the AA that makes it give a raid wide ward (lol 500?) and can cure Arcane effects, make it exceedingly usefull, on 2 fights that come to mind...

Elemental Concerto: Same as Above, but redicliously more usefull as far more damaging elemental effects are cast, Perfect in current form minus conc slot.

Both Arcane/Elemental are pretty bad now, same for Dirge noxious one, but any major changes would make these OP.

Alin's Serene Serenade: Aggro Controll song, -42%. very usefull, would be exceedingly op if made raidwide but wouldn't really hurt the lower geared tanks from braving a raid

Fine how it is. Peaceful link will cover other people in raid.

Gracefull Avoidance: Increases Def, adds mit with AA, and with pristege adds a minor chance to "dodge" generically perfect in form. could benefit from being Raidwide

Every bard has a similar buff, raidwide would be pointless.

Raxxyl's Rousing Tune: Increases Agi , Int and Wis, generically not worth a conc slot. wouldnt shed a tear if this changed, Suggestion: make RW

You aren't running a buff that increases everyone in your groups base stat?

Rejuvenating Celebration: Increases Health, and increases health regen by a really tiny ammount per tick, with pristege this gets 5% more to max health, which is incredibly good. occasionally see myself with more hp than the tanks, needs to be RW imho

All these RW buffs would make having more than 1 troub per raid pointless.

Song of Magic: Increases Spellcasting skills and Focus by a whole heck of a lot, .. Which doesnt seem to do anything: Suggestion, change Effect, make Spellcasting Leach hp by a minor ammount, or even mana? * or have an effect change based on what you do, Combat Arts drain health, Spells drain mana, Healing wards the target of damage.

Useless buff, like lots of classes have.

Selo's Accelerando: Increases Runspeed , Suggestion: Raidwide, wouldnt really be that bad would it?

Its run speed, doesn't matter any more.

Song of Shielding: Single Target, group friend gets to use my avoidance 40% of the time, doesnt see much use in reality as i normally dont have a tank in my group, or i am the tank. : Suggestion, Make it able to target someone out of my group, *or* Make it target my Whole group, since it is a "song" it should work on those listening to me right?.

Don't Spec for it then.

Resonance: Increases the range of spells by 5, and with AA increases their radius and reduces mana cost, doesnt seem to increase the radius of spells by very much, as most "aoe spells" are 10 meters. a 20% increase to 10 is 2, however the range is nice. but doesnt effect combat arts. which . for the troubador at least it should effect.

Spell is already pretty OP, doesn't need much more to it.

Requiem of Reflection: Spell reflect + stoneskin, seems a hit an miss, and with priestege adds 5% more healing done, i dont get to see much use of this due to lack of conc slots...

If you aren't running this all the time, stop playing a troub.

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Old 10-05-2012, 11:39 PM   #23
tomsky

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Fairin wrote:

Combat Arts:   as a foreward to this section i would like to point out that i no longer have room in my "dps rotation" to even think about useing combat arts, i even went as far as switching to useing my bow so i can stand next to my casters who do not like getting up in melee range. to use deadly dance so the raid benefits. our combat arts are just to weak in comparason

If you aren't meleeing as a troub, you are doing it wrong.

Bump: behind only. puts bard in stealth, does minor damage twice the recast of any spell, and turns off auto attack. Suggestion, have it cast night strike simotaniously and not turn off auto atk or put in stealth, or have it remove the stealth component from Night strike

Put it on your hot bar next to night strike, had 4 AA points in the reuse, cast them together.

Dancing Blade: Behind only, Medium Light damage, also provides a resist debuff that doesnt seem to do anything, Suggestion, fix light damage attacks like these. they just dont compare...

See earlier point about Resists and debuffs.

Evade: de-hate and taunts like these are worthless just plain worthless, they need to do positionals, or have the effect increased by over 10x the ammount currently in game - Example, i hit a mob for 1 million damage auto atk, with my -50% threat that would add up to 500k threat, Evade lowers my hate gain by 25k! woo hoo!! , (disclaimer, numbers used are approximates, when i auto for 1 million dmg i rip. period)

Detaunts are broken for all classes really. Use it to proc stuff at ranged if nothing else up.

Evasive Manuvers: de-positonal, essentially what ^ should have been

Night Strike: Medium Damage stealth only ability, the only one troubs have, Suggestion is Remove it and add it as a 2nd effect to bump, making it strike Simultaneously

Learn to use Bump properly.

Rythm Blade: Lightish Medium damage, gives a Self buff to spell and weapon skills, Suggestion: why not make this a group buff when used, its not that much to be so OP really..

A free aa buff, is fine how it is, every little helps with hit rates.

Sinister Strike: the Master strike, Does Heavy damage nearly 4 times as much damage as other combat arts in some cases, made up for its long reuse, why cant other combat arts his this hard?

You are an Utility class first and foremost. You aren't meant to have combat arts that hit for 2 million damage. You are there to provide your group with as much dps as you can get, and provide moderate dps of your own.

Turnstrike: Lightish medium damage + personal aoe prevent, its fine in current form although i would like a "spell" version.

Turnstrike is fine how it is. Why would you want a spell version, if you are ranged, AE won't do much to you anyway so no need to avoid it.

Alternate Advancement: Bard Foreward to this section, i will briefly summarize these with strengths and weakness and suggestions without listing every single thing, its getting late, maybe if i was so inclined to fix it later or of the community wishes it...

Strength Line: 1, Turnstrike, no complaints besides low damage increase secondary effect doesnt change. BladeTurn, increases def skill on 1 song, not by too terribly much*25%*, "Weak". BladeSing, increases stat songs by 5% per rank, very Weak, as 5% of 100 is 5.. big deal. Blade Dance, ^ see above.. .too long reuse

See Above.

Agility Line: Bump: written suggestions above, Wayfarers Watch : worthless in current form i do like the parry on it however but the 1% to absorb a lv 92 effect is just.. cant it add something else?. Poison Concoction Light damage+light dot proc for free, whats not to like? A+ here. could benefit from gear however ... more than it does right now. Dodge and Cover: very very nice, really approving of this one. only one thing is its limitation of 10 targets when it says " group friend" cant remember the last time i grouped with 10 players in one "group" non raid... make RW please =)

If you are speccing Dodge and Cover for raids, you are doing it wrong again.

Stamina Line: Round Bash ^ above in combat arts. Skalds defense 1aa for 1% is not enough, MA at raid level is worthless, Fortissimo MA at raid level is worthless, especally when your a troub and dont get to group with other scouts... Lend Shielding: i would really -really- like this but dont have enough 'aa's to waste to get it i would suggest re-writeing the entire Stam tree, and put this first but change it from by to "too" 100% for 5 seconds

If no use to you in raids, don't spec it. But im sure your healers/mages wouldnt mind a free 10% MA.

Wisdom Line: Messangers' Letter see above^ , Harbingers Sonnet: really small %'s for every aa spent. doesnt seem noticeable in combat. Allegro increases spellcasting speed, worthless, casters are so over spellcast cap its not funny anymore. Don't kill the Messanger: 7.5% crit, i see "so many" troubs useing this it makes me cry tears of blood, no one comes to raid expecting the troub to put them over crit cap, everyone gears for crit before troubs in the first place. Suggestion: have it increase base spell damage by 5%

I expect ALL bards to have DKTM, so I dont have to stack up on Crit chance adorns, and I know what they will provide me with. Remember as well these are AA designed for ALL levels, not just 92 raiding.

Intelligence Line: Rythm Blade See above^, Minstrel's Aria, improves casting skills of song of magic by up to 80%, which still in the end isnt that very much, needs more love. Minstrel's Melody increases the Haste song from 33 to 55% at master and 10/10, big deal... very weak. Heroic Story telling: 10% to resist stifle, and 3% arcane and nox dmg reduction, , Big deal on the reduction.. 3% of a 50k nox hit from the golem n droag fight in UD is not going to put a Dent in that (3% of 50k = 1500) and the Stifle "resist" at 10%. just doesnt match up with other endlines, very weak

Situational AA, can be useful, most of the time not. Same as most classes, obvious AA lines to use and not to use.

SF line: Improved Reflexes lowers reuse on Blade Dance, but doesnt matter, it doesnt go below 50% of its 8 min base(yes eight minutes!) Stealthy Ambush: improves bump damage from light to medium, over 8 aa's, Song of Shielding See above. Swift Voices: Add's 32% recovery speed to Allegro, would like to see this get linked to Allegretto instead. Precise Blades: adds an accuracy and resistability component to Rythm blade, doesnt seem to be nessary for resistability, and accuracy is easy to cap now...

Blade Dance goes down to a 5 minute Reuse.

4 AA in Stealthy Ambush puts it reuse the same as Nightstrike

Don't spec Shielding for Raids

32% Group Recovery speed is amazing, and is fine how it is.

If you are capped accuracy, you are reforging wrong.

Alternate Advancement: Heroic

Song Spiners note: no seriously.. what is this.. it sounds cool in text... if it would actually .. do something besides very light damage? heres a Suggestion for it, make it compete with Deadly Dance and Cadence of Destruction. make it do 400k damage base, count as a spell. have a 30 second reuse, and apply the 3 effects on it as such, fighters up to 10 meters from target gain 10% heals and wards buff, Scouts Around target gain 15% reuse, and Casters / Healers get a Ward, or de positional

Its basically an AA a MT dirge could use if it was changed, same as Deadly Dance is a troub buff.

Alternate Advancement: Pristege

Invigorateing Ballad: Grants 3 buffs for 3 aa's to 3 songs, 5% increased healing, 5% health and 3% dodge (and removes conc slot) overall A+

Soul Sonata: Adds "Buffs from Debuffs" Zanders makes group proc damage (small chance needs to be RW, what i would like to see is zanders putting a debuff on the boss that when it takes spell damage, the troub does the zanders proc much like a coercer) "Stat debuffs dont add very much at all. and Chaos Anthem restores health to the group, at the rate of 2k every 5 seconds. its not noticeable.. really - Practical Example, in raid last night, healer dies to AoE, entire Group was dropped to 20% hp, my heal tick goes off. twice. healing for 4k in the time it took for our healer to get resed, not saying  i should replace a healer, but if it was more noticeable. say 5k per tick then maybe it'd be an asset

The buffs from these are already nice, the dps from Zanders isn't bad, and the base stats you get are a bonus.

Paralytic Venom: Decreases targets Potency by 3%, stacks with other scouts. and lasts 10 seconds... i dont think -anyone- takes this.. any scout at all...

Some do, as some have even more pointless top end AA.

Advance Scout: gives you a tiny chance to flurry group wide. compared to the bard buffs above. this is worthless especally since we're the only scout in group normally...

-- Left Tree -- Right side, Situational (Same as most classes prestige), generally no one will take it.

Song of Conservation: adds a useless effect to a useless spell, this needs rethinked from start to even begin to compete with jester's ruse

Soul Tap: makes the group wide short ranged mana restore have a chance to reset a useless spell.. does not compare in anywayshape or form to style and presence

Song Weaver: 30MA = 1% crit bonus. at the penality of having to skip out on jester's ruse and SNP, for these two ^

-- Right Tree --

Jester's Ruse: makes Jesters Cap Bawss. adding a procing damage effect , very A+

Style and Presence: Makes Perfect shrill reset the recast of Painfull lamentations.  this is very awesome and attributes to my new playstyle 100% allowing me a 3 spell combo, which further negates the desire for me to do any combat arts

SteelSing: 20 haste = 1% potency, when the other choice is taking Song of Conversion, advance scout, or the paralzing poison, its just painfull not to take , normally sitting at 400 haste in the first place. the 20% potency never hurts. A+ here

Ayonic Inspiration: our mythical weapon buff, currently gives 10% spell damage on aria of Magic, and proc's 2.4 times a min Ayonic Hymn, which increases our crit by 15% and does a very light ammount of damage, Suggestion, remove the Crit chance and make it equal to a Dirge's mythical.  Just Troubador flavored, instead of 25% flurry make it 25% doublecast and potency

25% Double Cast would be totally overpowered compared to 25% flurry. All myth buffs need looking at really, but not going to be changed any time soon.

Savior Fairin, Avatar of the Sky(shrine!) - Eternal Destiny Antonia Bayle Server

PS someone proof read this.. its 8 am.. *zzzzz*

Honestly, looking at all your posts, you are playing a troub by sitting at your mages, casting only ranged stuff and not bothering to even go in and melee.

Not to be a personal attack, but you've reforged horribly, your AA choices are horrible, and if you applied to any semi decent guild, you'd be laughed at or turned away because of them.

You claim to be an endgame troub, Skyshrine EM is not endgame. Plane of War is Endgame.

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