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Old 09-14-2005, 08:27 AM   #1
Pat

 
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I do not know where to begin.
 
Never have a played a game that has been in existance this long and has required a great deal of my time to achieve the goals I made.
 
This character I have now is not even half the one I had when I logged the day before. When I started EQII beta I expected a Shaman to at least have some resemblance to the EQI shaman. It was not, but I enjoyed the change none the less. I had never played a healer before, this one was fun. I liked the power and abilities it had other than a few quirks. I got used to them. I worked around them. In the end, I loved my character. Other mystics will complain that they were not good enough, that they could not be primary healers, that is just a lack of skill. Some will say I have great gear and spells, for the record, I have no guild, no ebon chainmail, no adept 3 40+ spells except ward and zero masters in that area. The class was great, it was not powerful. Sometimes I had to bite my lip to make things work but it was great cause I knew I had to work harder and was challenged more than other healers in the same situation.
 
I log on today? Everything and I mean everything is different. I can not think of a single thing that is the same. All of our group buffs are different, hell one is even a group ward/resist that costs 200ish mana and lasts 36 seconds with a 2 minute reuse timer, how does Prophetic Shield go from a group power buff to this?  People have already stated, where is the Blessed Weapon component, what happened to our maul component in bear form let alone our mana boost from the same buff. What the hell happened to my heals? Longer cast time in one case 1.5 seconds to 3??? seconds with a 10 second reuse timer which is not new but not only does it take longer to cast it does even less heal wise. My main master heal, it lost 200 pts and costs the same if not more. Even my level 50 adept 1 heal can not touch my old master. And do not even get me started on group heals. These cost the same if not more and heal for even less than before.
 
Lets not even get started on wards. I have "One" lets count them, "One" I can cast, which I upgraded to Adept III for a ward of 1350ish absorption, it would normally stay up at least a second when I cast it before the mitigation change. Today? I cast this spell once with approximately the same mana cost as before but at a 450pt absorption reduction. I cast "One" of these on a tank in a Epic X2 fight, not before but 10 seconds after the fight started. The cleric and warden in the group were chain healing. The tank dropped and the mob went after me for 900pts of absorption that lasted less than a second?
 
My slow spells are less than before, 30 percent to 16 percent slow??? My group cure is over 200 mana to cast, yes its a group cure that works on everything but has a reuse timer as well. 200 Mana?? Oh and what is this temporary hit point deal? Who thought this up? My heals are slower, cost more, heal less and give 25 extra hit points beyond the target for what? 10 seconds?
 
Mitigation and Avoidance of my character were cut in half. Its almost laughable. Just as a test I attacked a level 10 mob and yes again for the record Im level 50. That mob hit me 9 out of 10 times, I kid you not granted it only hit for 1 point every time but the fact a 10 can hit a 50?? If the roles are reversed can a level 10 fighter hit a level 50 mob this easily??
 
You want a reason for people to leave a game, well you found it? Almost a year after its beginning you change the game completely, I have yet to meet a person that is happy about any of this, "Pure Caster's, Shadowknights need not reply, you got great upgrades as my Conjuror can profess, I am not attacking other classes I am attacking Mystics only". People asked for small changes not world changing events. Timers, cast times, mana cost, result for the cost (heal wise) are ridiculous.
 
I am sorry but I am [Removed for Content] off at this change. People will say put on a helmet and move on. How can I when the character I spent almost a year playing is not even half the character he was 24 hours ago. I played EQI, I saw the mistakes Verant made, I lived through them because they were liveable, this? this is some monkey with a finger in his [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. Where is this mythical distinction I read about in the posts of upcoming change? The only distinction I see is that my character now sucks. I have even less spells to cast now than before the change.
 
Hate gain is through the roof for doing what I did before. I guarantee you if you ask any healer we got enough as it was before, sometimes it was impossible to get out alive. Now? I toss a rune and bend over, normally I would feel ok about taking a few hits but what? you took my Parry skill away, now Im just a rag doll that dies in a few hits.
 
How can I continue being a healer?  Max heal around 800 and it FLUCTUATES, oh my god its not a set amount it is a varied amount. It can be anywhere from 650-800 points for the same mana cost? What is that?
 
I am disgusted. How can I play with what you have handed to me. Not only that you charged me $30 for a new expansion and yes another $15 this month for this proud creation which personally should have been left in the toilet. Oh and yeah its only $45 from you or me but 100,000 times thats $4.5 million to make the game what you think it should have been in the beginning instead of just making the mobs and encounters harder.
 
I want my class back, or at least something that resembles what it used to be.
 
 
 

Message Edited by Patch on 09-13-2005 09:57 PM

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Old 09-14-2005, 08:40 AM   #2
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AMEN!!! Well said Patch. I've personally spent about a third of the time you have on my Mystic and I am absolutely appauled at the gaul of SOE with this so called patch. Sure, every Necro and Conjurer in the game is throwing their hands in the air and praising the gods for their upgrades... and what are we left with?... nerfed characters and overpriced spells that are half as effective as they once were. With what to show for it? Absolutely nothing! We received NO bonus WHATSOEVER as part of this update. Even the promise of a damage output bonus is nowhere to be found.

Fair warning SOE, your Combat Upgrade changes ran off 50% of your SWG players, myself and friends included, and your well on your way to doing it here. This is an abysmall treatment of our healing classes and is inexcuseable.

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Old 09-14-2005, 09:21 AM   #3
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I'm trying hard, REALLY REALLY hard, to keep an open mind about these changes.  Maybe one day of playing isn't enough, but as of right now, I couldn't agree more.  Going into today, I had such high hopes and was so excited about the expansion, but after playing all night, I don't even want to continue.  I knew that aggro was going to be more of an issue, but this....I just don't know.  I'd really love to know how my expectations were so misguided.

I'll keep trying.  Good luck to all working through this.

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Old 09-14-2005, 09:35 AM   #4
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Yeah looks like bob Barker stepped in and Spayed and nuetered the healers. My poor little Ratonga Mystic is feeling really gimped... My limit of understanding ends in three weeks. Then its off to waiting for DDO
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Old 09-14-2005, 10:43 AM   #5
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I here you all im in my mid 30s with my mystic and since log in have had my tail handed to me all day i give up. all i have gained is a huge exp debt  and a real bad attitude about my mystic i dont even want to get started as a real good start was put up top all ready but i agree after a year of playing im done.  and as for the double exp only thing that doubled was my debt bar.

bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the whole line of crap sucks  wards and all. very very bad update.

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Old 09-14-2005, 10:48 AM   #6
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Ytse wrote:

AMEN!!! Well said Patch. I've personally spent about a third of the time you have on my Mystic and I am absolutely appauled at the gaul of SOE with this so called patch. Sure, every Necro and Conjurer in the game is throwing their hands in the air and praising the gods for their upgrades... and what are we left with?... nerfed characters and overpriced spells that are half as effective as they once were. With what to show for it? Absolutely nothing! We received NO bonus WHATSOEVER as part of this update. Even the promise of a damage output bonus is nowhere to be found.

Fair warning SOE, your Combat Upgrade changes ran off 50% of your SWG players, myself and friends included, and your well on your way to doing it here. This is an abysmall treatment of our healing classes and is inexcuseable.



I'm a necro I'm not praising a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] thing about the nerf we just got hit with. And I played SWG some this morning. It seems better than this combat upgrade now lol

Message Edited by Suraklin on 09-13-2005 11:49 PM

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Old 09-14-2005, 11:04 AM   #7
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Patch -

Thx for expressing exactly how I feel. Lev 50 Mystic here. I log in and had high hopes of ward fixes - really that's it. I was so excited to log in today and start seeing the *improvements* to the class. I now find myself totally mind boggled. Why in the world would they nerf our spot heals. They were crazy expensive to use to begin with but as others have stated, played well, it could work. I hands down would throw wards away entirely to get back what we had before. I honestly cannot fathom what problems they forsaw in the timer changes (re-use and shared). I have about 20% less spells now because they really are useless. In the end, I angry, disappointed and not sure what this is all for. I want to say that I'm quitting but what the heck am I going to do with 4 hours of my day? Well, I guess I could play WoW where all my friends are....

Someone please help me -- what aside from wards needed to be fixed with Mystics that makes all this make sense -or- at least justifiable.

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Old 09-14-2005, 05:47 PM   #8
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I agree with everyone. I am dumbstruck. Where did my lvl 30 Mystic go? I know that the fun I had is gone. No fun = no play.
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Old 09-14-2005, 06:14 PM   #9
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Don't forget they will be fixing the combat update untill Christmas or so.

Oberon is really really great, and our water spell is ... out there.  I was in EF near the sharks and cast it on myself and took about 100000000 falling damage. 

About 10min later i cast it again as we were about to kill undertow and almost killed my entire group.

Message Edited by cobalty2004 on 09-14-2005 07:16 AM

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Old 09-14-2005, 06:16 PM   #10
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I'm loving it, for the most part. Some of the changes are a PITA, but I like the feel so far. Who knows, might just be the excitement of new content is deluding me. I'll play for a couple more weeks before I make a serious judgement call.
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Old 09-14-2005, 06:26 PM   #11
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Well I can see one good side to this....it will give me alot of time to bring my Mystic's artisan up from lvl 9 hehe.... since he won't be adventuring for a very long time...or until SOE decides to fix the nerf that was suppose to fix the glitch from the last nerf SMILEY
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Old 09-14-2005, 06:39 PM   #12
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Level 50 Mystic since January and been raiding immediately thereafter, so I have a reasonably decked out Mystic in terms of both equipment and spells. We were in an all level 50 five person guild group (Guardian, Templar, SwashB, Wizard, myself) hitting Pillars of Flame, Clefs, then Vault of Dust, and our guardian knew what he was doing. We're all reasonably well equipped too. We ran the circuit for 5 hours until Najena server crashed like a rock. During the 5 hours, he lost agro to me so many times that it got real noticeable. Never happened before. Precasting wards are a strict no-no now, and I had to break the habit of starting to heal the tank as soon as his healthbar drops - a habit from 7 months of raiding since January of always keeping the MT in the green. Right now, I ward only after the battle starts, and I find myself relying more on slows than ever before, particularly Mourning Soul. Been using Accordant Spirits (hate reducer) a lot too - every time the reuse time is still charging, I cringe. I used to have four heals on separate timers - now down to two, and that took a bit of getting used to.From what I'm seeing, with the reduction in healing prowess, it's still possible for groups with a single healer to engage ^^^ mobs of +7 to +8 levels above. The templar and myself tried it out with a few times with level 58^^^ mobs by taking turns to withhold heals, and the four persons managed to take the mob still safely. But there is no margin for error - when we had two ore more encounters of similar difficulty and if agro switcing occurs, one healer just couldn't cut it. With two healers in our group of five, the most we took were three ^^^ encounters of level 56+, and it was really hard. The sum of it: I don't think I like the changes that much. On balance, it was a nerf and reduction of abilities (SOE call sit rebalancing), not an improvement. But I guess I just have to adjust. Taffin, 50 Mystic of Legion, Najena

Message Edited by Wzierbovsky on 09-14-2005 07:41 AM

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Old 09-14-2005, 09:10 PM   #13
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Patch wrote:
 
Lets not even get started on wards. I have "One" lets count them, "One" I can cast, which I upgraded to Adept III for a ward of 1350ish absorption, it would normally stay up at least a second when I cast it before the mitigation change. Today? I cast this spell once with approximately the same mana cost as before but at a 450pt absorption reduction. I cast "One" of these on a tank in a Epic X2 fight, not before but 10 seconds after the fight started. The cleric and warden in the group were chain healing. The tank dropped and the mob went after me for 900pts of absorption that lasted less than a second? Aggro may be an issue but the amount of "healing" the ward provides is WAY WAY up now that mitigation is taken into account.  Im not going to post the numbers again, they are all over these boards by myself and banditman explaining how big of a difference the mitigation makes, even with the lowered number on the examine info.
 
My slow spells are less than before, 30 percent to 16 percent slow???
I assume you mean Mourning Soul, and again you are missing an important detail.  Before it was an autoattack slow.  autoattacks made up about 40% of a mobs DPS at best.  Now it is a total DPS reducer, this means combat arts too. 30% decrease of 40% of a mobs DPS = 12% DPS drop 16% of all DPS = 16% DPS drop And it stacks with the haze line now.
There are going to be difficulties adjusting to the changes, and there are definitely still problems (aggro most of all).  But this isn't the last patch this game is ever going to see.  Its about setting the baseline at a reasonable place so they can balance and update things more easily.    The sky isn't falling.  Take a deep breath, forget what you thought you knew about mystics, and take a fresh look at your spells.  Don't try to compare them to your old versions, the underlying mechanics of many have changed and mobs have changed significantly.  Its gonna be okay.
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Old 09-14-2005, 10:33 PM   #14
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Nice replies from most and everyone is entitled to their opinion but the point I am trying to get across is, why do we have to accept this? Mystics are a minority, I understand that so we have virtually no voice but the fact remains, the game is not at all what it was 24 hours ago.

Some of you say to accept the changes, I am sorry but I am not ready to just throw away a year of doing something a certain way to relearn and accept something that is below what I worked for. If this were a job and I was offered a new way of doing a process that is more efficient, then I could understand but this is only meant to hamper everything and throw us into disarray. It was hard enough to find a group before the changes. Now all I am hearing from friends is, do not group with a Mystic.

How many companys do you do business with have done this kind of change to you? Did you cable company call you today and say, hey you know those 100 channels your getting? Well were going to rework them and give you 75 all new ones, forget about the old ones with no price reduction and here is a new piece of equipment you have to buy for it to work for an extra amount.

This game is recreation, I understand that but it is also a time investment. I have wasted my time if this is what my characters have become. I am sorry, take this how you want but I am not a sheep, I will not just bend over and accept this Mockery of a game now. The only patch that can fix this is one that will make us what we were. Forget the ward fix I was fine without it. I want my heals back at the very least, Because I Am A Healer, despite what the devs think. That is why I played a Mystic.

I tried after my post to play any of my characters and it just felt wrong. Even my Conjuror whom got huge upgrades, he went from a 70pt nuke and a 10pt dot too a 60pt dot and two nukes ranging from 60-100 damage. It was like pulling teeth to kill what I killed the day before with ease even with these huge upgrades in damage. Before the patch I used 3-5 spells to kill a mob even or two levels above me including pet heals, now? 20-25 spells not including if I have to resummon a pet. I got the same xp as before the patch for more work.

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Old 09-15-2005, 12:04 AM   #15
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Patch wrote:

Some of you say to accept the changes, I am sorry but I am not ready to just throw away a year of doing something a certain way to relearn and accept something that is below what I worked for.


I know it sounds ridiculous to just say relax when you think its broken.  But really, I was in beta, I know some of this isnt perfect, I was there screaming for it to get fixed.  But what you have to realize is that some things were fixed.  I can't speak of level 50, but at level 41 where I am at, the difference is night and day, and its much much better.  But I have also had more time to get used to the changes. All I am saying is to relax, try out some new things and accept the possibility that things could have got better.  If its any indication, all the mystics that Ive seen post in beta and now here are saying that the changes are positive once you give them a chance.
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Old 09-19-2005, 06:24 PM   #16
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Well it has been almost a week.  My impressions are: Overall my level 51 Mystic is a much more competent healer in a group.  The main problem I am having is casters taking far too much aggro from the tanks and needing spot heals.  However I think that will improve and there is no denying that wards with some spot touch up heals are efficient enough now that I can play the role of primary or only healer in a group. Runic Talisman is a mixed bag now.  It's a superb solo buff.  It can work in a group too if the tank holds aggro.  It was getting me killed on raids, and has pulled aggro in groups far too many times.  I believe it can be made to work if the tanks can learn how to pull and grab aggro on all of the mobs, and if the casters don't take aggro, but at the moment I am not using it. Mourning Soul is an overall a nice upgrade.  No more root!  It's a straight DPS reduction.  It stacks with the Haze line.  And infact I'd be willing to give up a bit more healing power if they would increase our slowing ability.   Because later in the game when you are raiding it is reasonable to me that we are wanted more for our abilities to slow and debuf then for our abilities to act as primary healers.  It's something that differentiates our class, and being good at slowing raid mobs will definitely make us wanted classes later in the game.  I am fine if we have to struggle a bit more than other classes in groups to reach that point. Ghostly Slacker (aka shadowy attendant) - I tried him again yesterday after the patch and he didn't heal me or cast a single buff on me.  Maybe he now only heals others in the group, but my first reaction is he is still a slacker!  All he did was follow me around sniff my back side.
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Old 09-19-2005, 06:48 PM   #17
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Well, I gave up on my 43rd level mystic for months because it was so frustrating to heal a group and slow to solo. So far post-DoF I'm finding it better. There are a few niggles, but, on the whole I find it less frustrating. I kept a level 50 paladin alive fighting level 49/48 heroics. That's good, as far as I'm concerned.

*shrug*

If you look at the changes as "figure X is lower", "figure Y is lower" then it'll sure look bad. If you look at it as "can I do what I need to do to have fun" then I'm certainly finding I'm capable.

The new /con system and XP rates, etc. mean you should be fighting white encounters. The days of soloing reds or white heroics are gone or orange heroics being the bread-and-butter for groups are gone.

If you can't handle white encounters or can't find any, then /report away - I'm not finding that at my level.

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Old 09-19-2005, 09:24 PM   #18
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I agree with Patch. I am very upset at the changes in the Mystic. The heals are the worse part of the change. I am scared to death to group with guildies in tough areas. All I get to do is say sorry heal hit you to late. SMILEY  In a fight 3 seconds (which i think is longer) is way to long. Pls Pls fix this.

I am tired of hearing everyone else say woots Look at what I can do now. While I hang my head in shame.

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Old 09-20-2005, 11:46 AM   #19
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CallMeToyMan wrote:And infact I'd be willing to give up a bit more healing power if they would increase our slowing ability.
Please do NOT wish this, once healing is balanced with slows again and the slows get more and more important the shaman classes can and certainly will end the same the shaman class did in EQ1: you get reduced to a slowing machine where you need a "real" healer in the group on top of the shaman (unless you have high end gear whilst the other healers can heal in raw silk armor without stats ..)And aside from that, the autoattack-dps has by far not the meaning most think it does, slow does not affect CA's in any way and that's where most of the dps comes [email protected]: have you tried warding instead of healing and using the heals just for filling up the damage done in the time between ward drop and ward recast (though there shouldn't be any normally)? then it will work perfectly fine, at least it does for me, and i definitely try to get the hardest fights possible for me.
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Old 09-20-2005, 06:40 PM   #20
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Here Here

Haven't even logged on in 4 days because its not much fun anymore imo. I'm from a small guild and usually duo with my wife level 50 predator.  Solos are fine but any heroics are out of the question. I basically spend most of my time trying to level my small guild. Lavastorm SOLO writs are very difficult now because of the rescaling of agrro mobs.  Heritage quests - well I guess they wanted to make them impossible without a full group.  I've been in one full group since the combat changes and we fought solo creatures. The first group mob we got to - we wiped because the tank couldn't hold agrro.

I understand that everyone is still re-learning and it might take a while. But to someone like my wife who gets frustrated easily and is not a previous mmo player its very frustrating.  I have a challenge ahead of me keeping her playing.  And if she stops playing.... 

This is a vent - thank you for your time

Ulath - 50 Mystic on Unrest

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