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Old 09-14-2005, 02:33 AM   #1
Yt

 
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Let me start by saying that I'm a 28 Mystic and enjoy playing this class very much. But I've been playing the past few hours, post-Combat Upgrade, and my life has been twice as difficult as it was less than 24 hours ago. Perhaps I haven't played enough with the changes or perhaps the benefits don't truly reveal themselves on Mystics until the higher level's, but here's what the changes look like to me:
 
- My wards now last half as long and cost twice as much, not to mention drawing equivilent hate on me for every point of damage they absorb on their target. This sucks. Spectral Ward, my once primary single person ward, is now on and gone so fast that I can't even keep up with it. And when I try, I'm burning so much power to keep it up that I'm tapped twice as fast as usual... just on warding. Wards of Shadow is a decent group ward, but burns nearly a fifth of my power casting it. How are we expected to protect anybody let alone ourselves when that hate comes screaming our way?
 
- It seems like my primary purpose in this game (and the reason I chose a Priest class to begin with), to heal, has been diminished signifigantly. My max heals have been cut in half. I used to be able to heal up to 330 in a single cast with Aladad's Mending Chant (which is now nowhere to be found post upgrade). Now my best heal is the 178-218 Healing Ritual. If anybody has any other options at this level then send em my way, cuz I'm at a loss.
 
- My primary DoT's (such as Contagion, Miasma, and Cold Fire (now called Cold Flame)) no longer restart with multiple casts and now last half as long as well. This limits my HO options severely as I now need to monitor each DoT and wait for it to expire before re-casting as part of a complete HO, or risk losing time while the game tells me that "That spell would no take effect".
 
- And overall, it seems like now I can barely beat a white /con creature by myself let alone a yellow, which I used to handle easily. I was attacked by two lvl 20 bears together in the Steppes today, which were once grey /con and no threat, are now pounding me into the orange health levels, despite everything I try to do. 24 hours ago these lowbies wouldn't have given me a second look. I thought the catalyst for these changes was to make the game simply more fun and rewarding for us... the players... Not only is playing a Mystic now more difficult, but practicilly pointless.
 
Someone please help... any info/advice/or new play styles are appreciated. I don't want to see my favorite character turn into the one I simply can't stand to play anymore.
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Old 09-14-2005, 05:44 AM   #2
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I completely agree with you. I play a lvl 30 Shaman. I sat here looking at my spells for a solid hour tonight. Looked at the cast times,  durations, power use, etc. I am stunned. I can't believe it. I logged on tonight expecting to see a few minor changes, and see huge, dramatic nerfs.

I thought the wards being fixed would be great,  but how in the world?... why in the world so dramatically lower the amount of damage warded against, and the duration? I am completely baffled. And the heals being so low. Just unbelieveable. Maul gone from bear form. Blessed weapon gone from my buffs. All desire to play has drained from me...

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Old 09-14-2005, 06:16 AM   #3
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Other than our Badger pet not working at all, I love the combat changes!  ( they did make the badger more of a ghost lookin thing however)

Wards are awesome, our buffs are really great.  The runic line regens super super fast.

Our DPS went down, even though it said priest damage would go up.... power requirement is down across the board on almost all spells.

Our Rez spells could use some work however.. a 600 pt ward on our best rez is kinda weak.

Other than this I am happy with the way things turned out.

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Old 09-14-2005, 06:40 AM   #4
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Hi I am a 50 Mystic....and to put it simple we suck !!!! All heals except 1 are on same timer...lost 3 wards...lost a damage spell....Grey wind to the same timer as the ire of grey (which is the last upgrade for smite hehe) Wow but we got group water breathing SMILEY Bascially Siakar is retired till further notice SMILEY
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Old 09-14-2005, 06:54 AM   #5
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I agree, I went all the way through the arena in SP (apart from champ) with no too many problems before update. Now my lvl 26 Mystic had a really hard time against the second challenger. Her ward went down almost as soon as it was cast. All heals have been nerfed, all buffs nerfed too. My best heal was an Adept III Healing Ritual which has had over 100 points of healing reduced from it. Maul and Blessed Weapon have both gone and been replaced with nothing at all. I couldnt see anything but total nerfs across the board with no compensation at all in other areas. Some of the healing spells are laughably weak now considering monsters do loads more damage.
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Old 09-14-2005, 06:59 AM   #6
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Wasn't as bad as I expected.    I ran out to feerot and solod some greens,  then went to sinking sands and soloed some whites and yellows.   Both were easy, where I'd normally have had substantial med time after soloing a yellow, (if I survived)   these were quite bearable.
 
In a group as sole healer working yellow heroics,   I could barely keep up with healing,  and a couple wipes were by inability to keep up not by running out of power.    Its definitly going to take some getting use to where can I try to sneak those debufs in between those long heal and ward cast times.   Probably have to put abilities instead of macros on quick bar so I can see the recast count downs better for a bit.   After getting used to it  and realizing I had to get the wards out quick if I was to keep up with heals,    I was able to keep my gorup alive,  with very little down time between pulls.    Actually was tanks needed power meds,  cause indeed I was working out their taunting ability significantly.    We managed and I had forgotten  all about haveing  an agro disperser, which would have come in handy.
 
Doesn't look like I'll have to worry about saving the chanter nearly so much anymore.   Chanter seldom got higher in the hatelist that I did.    Debuffs didn't seem gain agro nearly as much as they used to.   But this may just be becasue heal and ward agro was much more apparent.
 
Its definitely different.   The way I play will have to change substantially,  but I don't think I could have kept the group I was with tonight alive with just the direct heal tools I had before.    I feel like I lost a couple abilities due to the linked recast timers,  but gained usefulness of wards to make up for it.  
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Old 09-14-2005, 08:04 AM   #7
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OK so as a lvl 41 Mystic, I now have 2 wards 1 is half power, one is a 15 min recast. My heals now share the same recast timer.. I draw 5x the hate just RUNNING AROUND. And if I preward I get equivlent hate to what the Tanks takes? I even chose all my [+] abilities as wards I feel like Helen Keller trying to cross I-84 Though I am understanding, and hope they fix this backalley abortion they call a patch, 3 weeks should be more than enough time. Because right now I don't feel it is worth $15 of my dollars. It's not a rant and rave I am leaving, but it just feels no fun any more to play a character that can not do the job he was designed to do.

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Old 09-14-2005, 08:11 AM   #8
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Honestly, its not "better" for us.. Its worse.  I personally am not even going to try and figure out how to save my toons life or my groups life during battle.. Only one ward usuable now and only 1 piddly heal and 1 useless heal to choose from?!  Yeah no thank you.  This lvl 50 Mystic has experienced a game that was fun to a game that went far to incredibly frustrating!  My subscription is cancelled,  how I wish I could get my money back from buying this expansion.
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Old 09-14-2005, 08:14 AM   #9
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I feel you, so now we have a increased exp thing going on but hell I can't even heal properly to group! Man and Dungeons and Dragons online isn't close to done yet...
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Old 09-14-2005, 08:16 AM   #10
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ROFL!!!!!  Helen Keller on I-84 I totally know what you mean!
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Old 09-14-2005, 08:27 AM   #11
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Ytse,

While I don't necissarily disagree with you on all the points you've made, perhaps I can help answer the question "exactally how is this better for us?"

- You have to invest heavily in your power pool. I'd have to know what gear you have on, which traits you've chosen and what race you are in order to determine if you are underpowered for your level. As for the wards accruing hate, we're going to have to make some changes in how we wand and when we ward. Now that wards have gone post-AF and our heals on non-targeted group members gather less hate, we should not be pre-warding, but rather healing and applying wards at opportune moments... particularly at lower levels when your tank may or may not have a strong command of the mob you are fighting. We can't chain wards like we used to... and I love that. I get to DoT and attack more... no longer relegated to the infamous role of "support" or "secondary" healer.

- My heals seem fine, but perhaps that's because I'm between Adept 1's and 3's on most of them. Haven't tested the range thoroughly enough yet to make a judgement on diminished effectiveness.

- I grabbed the Master 2 Cold Flame and it rocks. I am now able to solo when necissary without having to rely on outdated DD smites and my mace for most of the damage. I don't know about Contagion since I don't use it much. I favor Miasma and Keening Haze, which... when staggered throughout a fight... seem to take care of business just fine. Besides, do you want long-lasting multiple DoTs on a group target when your wards and heals are already accumulating enough hate?
 
- As for your ability to solo, I'm not sure when you cast things, but I'm doing fine at level 30 with whites and yellows. I stagger DoTs (as I meantioned above), initiate HO after Delusion goes up and begin the hacking and slashing process. The fact that I can cast multiple simultaneous wards at regular intervals on myself is one of my favorite sustainance tactics and DoF doesn't seem to have affected it at all.
 
I guess it all depends on how you play your class and what you expect from it. So far, I have no complaints, but I hope some of the things I've mentioned help you see the good in the changes. Some things will be nerfed and some things will be given a boost in the future if the general population feels that the changes are unfair, but I'd like to give it a chance before I start praying this doesn't go the way of AC2 and loses subscriptions because of poorly planned class alterations.
 
EDIT - Seems most people have discovered that the biggest problem is in the Runic Talisman line. Other than that, all seems to be in order.

Message Edited by Bloodspitter on 09-14-2005 03:00 AM

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Old 09-14-2005, 11:13 AM   #12
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Ok, I wasn't expecting much tonight either. All my spells except for th [+] are Adept 1's.  I had Spirit of Rhino, Ursine Oracle, Omen(yeah 1 conc), and Runic shield. I had conc slot open, nothing to fill it in....I hope something is available in the future.

I was 39.8 tonight when I went out to the Sinking Sands. I pulled a 'caiman' that was 1 arrow down level 46 solo mob. Very orange to me. Most of my gear is now listed as starting at 30 (go figure..it was all yellow and orange yesterday)

This is what I did:

1) Ancestral Ward

2) Howling Haze

3) Mourning Soul

4) Grim Lethargy

5) Fallacy

6) Cry of Ancients

7) Start HO

SMILEY Pox + Cold Wind (or touch of grey, i mix it up)

9) Depending on if the ward dropped, re-ward

9) Start HO

10) Touch of Grey + Icy Flames (or, mix of 8 and 10)

 

This guy dropped like a rock and I had at least half my pool left. I'm drinking and eating Level 40 high food and drink.

I teamed up with a 41 SK later and we had no problems taking on 1 up arrow, at least 3 group member mobs level 45-46. Although the fight took a while, so we stuck to orange solos.  Later we teamed up with a 42 ranger, who became 43 shortly. We took on level 48 red mobs, I barely even used wards because the SK was mitigating so well (his taunts sucked though). I mostly doing slows and debuffs, and direct heals. 

The warding has definitely become tricky. Mostly because it's hard to manage in a chain pull situation -- I found myself canceling a lot just so I wouldn't get aggro.  At one point we got jumped by three 46 orcs. It was touchy there, but no sweat  -- I used up a majority of my power, but it worked out.  Except for +++ mobs, we were able to deal with just about anything.

So to be honest I'm liking the change so far.

I'm not sure why other people are having problems but I was having a blast. But the wards are definitely going to be the trickiest part to deal with.

 
Forgot to add, the way I heal is I use spiritual healing (master II, one of the [+] choices), and spiritual replenishment. I use this in tandem because of the longer reuse time for SH, I can keep using SR and warding if necessary. I've trained myself over the last year to almost never use group ward because it always took too long to cast and has an AE effect; and to almost never use group heal in combat situations unless it was real bad and also because of it's AE component. Maybe I'm being bass akwards here, but I think it's greatly helped out with this new combat revamp.

Message Edited by thedump on 09-14-2005 12:21 AM

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Old 09-14-2005, 12:38 PM   #13
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What happened to my ability to solo is all I have to say. I was in beta but had been tradeskilling for a few days since I 'thought' they were done tinkering with the combat stuff. When I was testing the combat in beta I could solo well even though it was slow. The char I had on beta was also 2 levels lower than I am now on live.
 
I went to everfrost this evening to check things out since they were live...Oh dear god what a horrible surprise. I had trouble at lvl 47 with the stupid lvl 41 ice wolves that I've been killing since I was level 39. I've never been interrupted that much, even on beta when my focus skill was less than 100. I could forget about it if I got an add. I had to FLEE FOR MY LIFE from solo lvl 40 mobs, just because there was more than one of them in the solo group. That just simply should NOT be happening.
 
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Old 09-14-2005, 05:12 PM   #14
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Man talk about overreacting. Most classes whine like never before after this expension, but still alot of chars are managing as good or even better than before. Please use a few days and try to learn how to play your class again.
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Old 09-14-2005, 05:24 PM   #15
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So Khorfang, do you play a Mystic? What do you consider an appropriate reaction in the light of the massive changes to the Mystic class, Paladin class, etc?

My own question now is... is it worth it? Do I want to play a Mystic now when it takes so much more effort now to solo? I'll give it a week and decide.

Message Edited by Jarvahl on 09-14-2005 08:28 AM

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Old 09-14-2005, 05:32 PM   #16
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/cancelled

 

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Old 09-14-2005, 05:45 PM   #17
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Bad tanks are a lot more obvious after this patch, that's for sure. If a tank doesn't know what he's doing, aggro goes crazy. If a tank has neglected upgrading his spells, aggro goes crazy. My group last night had multiple wipes, deaths and other "unfortunate incidents" for the first couple hours of killing L51 and 52 mobs.  Once the tank and I found our groove though, we were killing L58 mobs in Pillars of Flame with no problem.  His comment to me afterwards was "I've never had to taunt like that before, I was always able to let my DPS build some aggro". Remember, it's not just you, the healer, who is learning how to play.  Your tank is also learning again.
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Old 09-14-2005, 07:16 PM   #18
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I am still confused where people are getting this easier to heal crap from. I mean my 2 main heals now share a timer so I am down to the Master II at 780hp and 2 old grey ones for barley 200 a piece. Then my wards are now what 500pts and green an one with a 15 minute timer? From 2 800+ point wards? I can't cast my buffs because the constantly generate hate, if we are in a group and walk around EVERYTHING goes to me and I seem to get [Removed for Content] now, even with all white conned armor. I HATE the changes done to my class, but I have another heal comming to me at 41.6 and I guess if they might tweak the changes I should try to adventure and take advantage of the extra exp. though even the lvl 50's say we are $#^@ed...
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Old 09-14-2005, 07:25 PM   #19
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b1ackartemis wrote:I am still confused where people are getting this easier to heal crap from. I mean my 2 main heals now share a timer so I am down to the Master II at 780hp and 2 old grey ones for barley 200 a piece. Then my wards are now what 500pts and green an one with a 15 minute timer? From 2 800+ point wards?
When you try to re-learn how to play your class after changes, you will find (supposedly)- Wards take mitigation into account now = wards more efficient = you dont have to cast blast heals nearly as much. Therefore by virtue of mana expended you are a more efficient healer. Our ward should be our most efficient heal and you should be able to use it now without the need for direct heals nearly as often as before. As far as your complaints on agro, read the 500 other threads in this forum about it. It just requires re-learning the class (im 44 and got owned for a while last night prior to changing my playstyle -oh boy was I irritated at the time- and it worked out better in the end.)

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Old 09-14-2005, 07:49 PM   #20
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Ok, lemme put the Ward numbers in perspective. Yes, no arguement, the values dropped.  Keep in mind that Reactives and Regens *also* had their values cut.  I still feel like we should be asking for a slight tweak upward in Ward value . . . perhaps 15 to 20 percent. Now, take Master 1 Ancestral Aegis.  It was 1500 points worth of Ward on Monday evening.  It's now 915 points on Wednesday morning. However! 915 HP of Ward on a tank with 50% mitigation is the equivalent of an 1830 HP Ward when mitigation isn't considered. 915 HP of Ward on a tank with 66% mitigation is the equivalent of a 2772 HP Ward when mitigation isn't considered. 915 HP of Ward on a tank with 75% mitigation is the equivalent of a 3660 HP Ward when mitigation isn't considered. 915 HP of Ward on a tank with 80% (capped) mitigation is the equivalent of a 4575 HP Ward when mitigation isn't considered.
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Old 09-14-2005, 07:50 PM   #21
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My experiences were positive..

In a giant/cyclone group near the Ancient Tables instance zone my.

- Wards lasting against 58-60 Heroic Mobs

- Oberon now usefull, I used it against some named mobs after slowing and debuffing (the ward stayed up until it expired)

- I am not sure about Mourning Soul, but, when the spell was on the tank the tank did not seem to take as much dmg.

- I was main healing the group no problem while taking on the raptors (blue and yellow conned mobs) while the templar was afk for dinner.

So far so good.

Mishra
50 Lvl Mystic
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Kithicor

I did however draw some aggro when the tank pulled, but I figured that was from Runic and/or  when the tank chained pulled while Ancestral Aegis was still on the tank.

 

 

Message Edited by DobermanChampion on 09-14-2005 09:09 AM

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Old 09-14-2005, 08:04 PM   #22
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I haven't prewarded, I didn't last night. I still pulled hate like no other. With a really good tank who never had this problem before. Even with the new ward set up my ward was taken down faster than before and I STILL couldn't get the heals out like I needed to. Trust me I went and relearned it all, I spent time looking at the respec etc. I shall try again with a tank who has had more time dealing with the changes and see how that goes. But really I am upset, and if by 3 weeks of playing one end doesn't come up (their side or me learning to enjoy the new mystic) I just don't feel it's worth the money at the time. :shrug:
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Old 09-14-2005, 08:41 PM   #23
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I havent grouped yet, but at 41 with appr4s/adept 1s and mostly crafted gear I was having no trouble with single mob solo encounters up through orange con.  Beat up to a 3 mob solo encounter, but it was close ( and thus challenging and exciting).  Use debuffs they help.  Use your most recent spells in a line.  Using spectral ward at 28 is going to cause problems.  The level of the spell means alot more now.  You can't use spectral ward and Healing Ritual until you are 40 any more.
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Old 09-14-2005, 09:02 PM   #24
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I still dont see how you think that your healing is nerfed when the mobs damage is nerfed.  I have yet to loose anyone in a group killing heriocs 9 levels higher than me.  My group where I was only healer would pull 2-3 groups of heroic that were level 52-53 and I still was able to heal everyone even though it got interesting at times on what spell I would do next to keep people alive.  Oberon is by far the best spell we get. Oberon is adept 1 for me (have a ruby waiting on a sage) and Runic Talisman is Master 1.  RT gives my group an 89point regen ward every 8 secs.  This means you will pick agro but at the beginning of a fight if your tank is not doing what he is suppose to be doing.  I have had no problem with agro though, yes i have pulled adds off the tank becuase he hadn't taunted the group yet but it wasnt anything a taunt couldnt fix.  The game is harder, soloing I can solo back to back and not have to much worries.  I will go down to about half HP on 50 51 mobs but the fight is interesting.  I soloed a solo encounter of 3 yellow 53 down arrows and found it to be very tough though I still won with little trouble.  My best stratigy is to pull with a slow and throw Oberon up till it runs out.  By then there mana will be gone or almost gone leaving you with a much easier fight.  My suggestion is to play around with your spells, try new things, try new combos.  Just because you are not clicking at the same speed you were 2 days ago doesnt mean its doom and gloom time.  If you can not tell I love the changes.  I have a few things I want changed, I would love a better group cure but I have yet to find anything that I couldnt ward the damage away.  Study your spells, get a good tank that has done the same.  Agro is not an issue unless your in a group without a tank and if your spaming wards and heals. 

BTW, you have 3 heals.  Single target faster cast lower hp heal. Single target Big heal.  and Group heal.  note group heal is much lower mana now and is very effective.  Later when you get Torpor and Protective Spirits you will want to upgrade those ASAP for the healing power they will give you when wards are up.  Group ward is still great to keep up, I normal start with a single on MT then cast group ward and sit back and watch the nukers do their work.  If anyone gets hurt its nothing a 1200 hp heal couldnt fix. 

Again the biggest things with our heals I would like see changed is the Max hp changed to a ward instead.  As of now the max hp part of our spell gets used about 0.5% of the time.  A ward would be much better and have the same effect as Max HP increase idea.  As of now with a Master 1 Enlighted healing Max hp increas is something like 200-300hp increase, so a 200-300hp ward instead would be much better and would help close the gap in the healing balance area that I hear about (not totally done testing currently)  Also fix the EB.

 

Thank you SoE for fixing alot of the things and making my class a more enjoyable experience.  So far I think you did a great job with the changes and the expansion is great.

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Old 09-14-2005, 11:37 PM   #25
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I hate my Mystic now...quitting or rerolling. I agree with the original post entirely...I feel like a total [Removed for Content]. Couldn't have imagined feeling weaker than before.
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Old 09-15-2005, 12:18 AM   #26
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Anyone who actually thinks that we are worse off as a healer is either still playing their "Monday Mystic" and hasn't bothered to figure out the changes (including reading the patch notes), or simply never knew what spells did what to begin with.  As far as keeping an exp group alive, the "Tuesday Mystic" is 10X better than the "Monday Mystic" was. 

Now raiding might be a different story.  The lack of group heals will definitely impact raiding short term.  It is yet to be seen whether the fast cast/fast refresh single target cures can keep up. 

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Old 09-15-2005, 12:35 AM   #27
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Khorfang---Was in beta could play and solo just fine there and was actually LOOKING FORWARD to most of the changes. Didn't expect to be completely gimped in the solo game when it went live since I wasn't in beta.

I hope the group aspect is as good as people are saying. I don't want to have to play an alt ...

 

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Old 09-15-2005, 02:43 AM   #28
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I have a 44 Mystic and I am happy with the changes.  Healing is much improved for me although it is a little trickier to manage aggro now.
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Old 09-15-2005, 11:25 AM   #29
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i'd say in the state shaman were before the patch, almost any change would have been positive for us SMILEY and i personally dig the changes, sure, there will have to be alot of tweaking, aggro still feels a bit weird now and then and i dont think we are really balanced with the other priests yet, but we are as close as never before to it and it actually feels GOOD to be able to do my job SMILEY
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Old 09-15-2005, 01:58 PM   #30
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I don't get you guys. Mystics were in a bad way pre-DoF. I'm a 43 mystic with no better than Adept1 spells and bought equipment - nothing amazing. I can solo yellow single-up mobs (just) which is very good given the new /con system. I can solo yellow down-arrows all day long with very little resting. I can keep a level 50 paladin up against level 48 double-up mobs.

I am the first to moan when something is wrong, but it's looking way better than a few months ago IMHO.

Sure there are issues (the ward on one of our conc buffs gets us aggro instantly when something is attacked - our Haze is a little underpowered and doesn't last long enough - our direct heals are a little inefficient - the STA/STR doesn't last long enough to be useful - losing Maul is annoying) but none of that is stopping me/us performing.

If you are having problems, /report with as much detail as possible, guys - you'll be helping us all!

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