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Old 05-23-2008, 01:51 PM   #1
Anekuh

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Sniper shot is our top dps CA we have. However, it takes over 3 seconds to cast. 3 seconds is forver in a raid where an AoE can go off.

In comparison, Assasins have the Decapitate line and it only requires them .05 seconds.

Why do we have a huge casting difference???

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Old 05-23-2008, 02:01 PM   #2
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I, too, would like to know the reason for this.  They both still have the same 15 minute recast timer right?  Where is this compensated for with the Ranger?
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:18 AM   #3
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Probably the same reason assassins CA's out damage the ranger counter part CA's. We get no love.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:50 AM   #4
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If you have someone to call the AoE's in raids, you wouldn't have this problem. I don't think this will kill you bluebies at all. Stop crying.
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Old 05-31-2008, 03:34 PM   #5
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[email protected] wrote:
If you have someone to call the AoE's in raids, you wouldn't have this problem.I don't think this will kill you bluebies at all. Stop crying.

You must be the dumbest person alive. Do you actually read anything here??

This has to do with a huge casting difference between assassin and rangers. Assassins can pull their big CA attack under .5 seconds while we have to wait 3.0+ seconds.

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Old 05-31-2008, 06:27 PM   #6
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While perusing some Adept 1's I had, I noticed the recast time on the Assassin's CA that's in question. It's recast time was 3 minutes, where Sniper Arrow's recast was 1m 30s. (both at Adept 1)It sounds like this is SOE's way of balancing the two.

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Old 06-03-2008, 09:45 AM   #7
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Anekuh wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
If you have someone to call the AoE's in raids, you wouldn't have this problem.I don't think this will kill you bluebies at all. Stop crying.

You must be the dumbest person alive. Do you actually read anything here??

This has to do with a huge casting difference between assassin and rangers. Assassins can pull their big CA attack under .5 seconds while we have to wait 3.0+ seconds.

Yes, [I can't control my language], I know the assassin's big CA is faster casting, but that's the way the game is. Live with is.
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Old 06-03-2008, 10:37 AM   #8
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[email protected] wrote:

While perusing some Adept 1's I had, I noticed the recast time on the Assassin's CA that's in question. It's recast time was 3 minutes, where Sniper Arrow's recast was 1m 30s. (both at Adept 1)It sounds like this is SOE's way of balancing the two.

I think you're thinking of the "other" single-target, high-damage, fire-from-stealth RA Rangers get.  Sniper Shot is a different ability from that altogether and is on a 15 minute reuse timer.  It also does quite a bit more damage than Sniper Arrow, plus has the Knockdown and Stun effects that Sniper Arrow (and its upgrades/downgrades, I'm not sure where this one falls in the upgrade chain) doesn't have.

I think, when comparing CAs vs. Assassins, instead of focusing on just this one, we should look at all of them.  While Sniper Shot may take 2.5s longer to cast than the Assassin counterpart, is that 2.5s made up when using the rest of our abilities vs. the rest of ours?  I don't know, so, this is actually a serious question.  If it is, then reducing Sniper Shot to the same attack speed as the Assassin version would be imbalancing, and rightly so.

Does anyone have any idea how all of the Ranger CAs stack up vs. their Assassin versions?

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Old 06-04-2008, 06:19 AM   #9
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No I'm not thinking of another CA SMILEY Sniper Arrow / Sniper Shot, same deal. Sometimes you just have the habbit of calling the CA's their t7 name SMILEY Like .. I still call Immobilizing Lunge Lunging Joust .. - If that's what you meant. What you guys are forgetting is we get stuff like Focus Aim, assassins don't..
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Old 06-04-2008, 04:50 PM   #10
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even with focus aim, sniper shot is most of the time not worth casting, i feel like im doing something naughty whenever i use it, cuz i know its hurting my dps more than helping. for me that one attack is 3.6k dps ( divide dmg by casting time), which isnt that much, about as much as searing which is highest dps ca due to its fast casting and reuse. the casting time in some cases may even prevent an autoattack if u try to use coverage for it. casting time should be lowered even if by a second.
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Old 06-04-2008, 05:08 PM   #11
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They'd never lower the casting time because that would give us more ammo toward the end line Str ability being useless to us.
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Old 06-06-2008, 02:17 PM   #12
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[email protected] wrote:
No I'm not thinking of another CA SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /> Sniper Arrow / Sniper Shot, same deal. Sometimes you just have the habbit of calling the CA's their t7 name SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /> Like .. I still call Immobilizing Lunge Lunging Joust ..- If that's what you meant.What you guys are forgetting is we get stuff like Focus Aim, assassins don't..

Just proves my point. We get focus aim and they get deadly foucs. Let's compare oranges and apples next?

/sigh

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Old 06-06-2008, 06:21 PM   #13
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Anekuh wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
No I'm not thinking of another CA SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15"> Sniper Arrow / Sniper Shot, same deal. Sometimes you just have the habbit of calling the CA's their t7 name SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15"> Like .. I still call Immobilizing Lunge Lunging Joust ..- If that's what you meant.What you guys are forgetting is we get stuff like Focus Aim, assassins don't..

Just proves my point. We get focus aim and they get deadly foucs. Let's compare oranges and apples next?

/sigh

Comparing a Ranger Ancient Teaching to an Assassin's End-line Ability is comparing apples to oranges.

Execute to Shower of Arrows (Both lvl 80) -- As these are the two comparable end-line abilities (50/60/70/80)...

or

Death Blow to Sniper Arrow (Both lvl 76) -- As these two were initiated as the lvl 58 ancient teachings.

Isn't there any Old School Rangers left around here to keep this stuff straight?  I think everyone agrees the Ranger Class takes it in the shorts with just about every GU release, but come'on guys, it doesn't help your case when your evidence is faulty.  Any Ranger with a parser knows using Sniper in a raid lowers DPS.   IMO, any Ranger CA that lowers his/her DPS is a broken CA.  And you have more than your fair share, so there's no need to compare sniper to execute.  When you do, it's just going to be ignored.

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Old 06-06-2008, 07:03 PM   #14
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Gareorn wrote:
Anekuh wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
No I'm not thinking of another CA SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15"> Sniper Arrow / Sniper Shot, same deal. Sometimes you just have the habbit of calling the CA's their t7 name SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15"> Like .. I still call Immobilizing Lunge Lunging Joust ..- If that's what you meant.What you guys are forgetting is we get stuff like Focus Aim, assassins don't..

Just proves my point. We get focus aim and they get deadly foucs. Let's compare oranges and apples next?

/sigh

Comparing a Ranger Ancient Teaching to an Assassin's End-line Ability is comparing apples to oranges.

Execute to Shower of Arrows (Both lvl 80) -- As these are the two comparable end-line abilities (50/60/70/80)...

or

Death Blow to Sniper Arrow (Both lvl 76) -- As these two were initiated as the lvl 58 ancient teachings.

Isn't there any Old School Rangers left around here to keep this stuff straight?  I think everyone agrees the Ranger Class takes it in the shorts with just about every GU release, but come'on guys, it doesn't help your case when your evidence is faulty.  Any Ranger with a parser knows using Sniper in a raid lowers DPS.   IMO, any Ranger CA that lowers his/her DPS is a broken CA.  And you have more than your fair share, so there's no need to compare sniper to execute.  When you do, it's just going to be ignored.

Yeah but I don't bother anymore SMILEYSniper is only useful if you can time it between your auto-attack which is very hard to do. therefore, more than likely, it will lower your dps since it will delay your auto-attack for so long.  And you are right GareornShower is equal to execute.Sniper is Death.I hate it when people compare Sniper to Execute. Sniper is not our final end game art. Shower is and it does comparable damage when used on multiple mobs as execute does on one mob.Granted I would rather have execute but shower aint that bad.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:40 PM   #15
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Gareorn wrote:
Anekuh wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
No I'm not thinking of another CA SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15"> Sniper Arrow / Sniper Shot, same deal. Sometimes you just have the habbit of calling the CA's their t7 name SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15"> Like .. I still call Immobilizing Lunge Lunging Joust ..- If that's what you meant.What you guys are forgetting is we get stuff like Focus Aim, assassins don't..

Just proves my point. We get focus aim and they get deadly foucs. Let's compare oranges and apples next?

/sigh

Comparing a Ranger Ancient Teaching to an Assassin's End-line Ability is comparing apples to oranges.

Execute to Shower of Arrows (Both lvl 80) -- As these are the two comparable end-line abilities (50/60/70/80)...

or

Death Blow to Sniper Arrow (Both lvl 76) -- As these two were initiated as the lvl 58 ancient teachings.

Isn't there any Old School Rangers left around here to keep this stuff straight?  I think everyone agrees the Ranger Class takes it in the shorts with just about every GU release, but come'on guys, it doesn't help your case when your evidence is faulty.  Any Ranger with a parser knows using Sniper in a raid lowers DPS.   IMO, any Ranger CA that lowers his/her DPS is a broken CA.  And you have more than your fair share, so there's no need to compare sniper to execute.  When you do, it's just going to be ignored.

I'll make this a little easier to understand then. Both CAs are the hardest hitting CAs for both classes. Assassins do NOT lose dps when they use their the Decapitate line. However, rangers will lose dps when using the sniper shot line. Therefore, the CA is basically useless.

Sure, you can say Shower of Arrows is the "same CA" as Execute due to level, but Shower is an AoE and not a single big hit like Execute. So, this is like comparing oranges to apples since the damage ouput differs greatly. (I personally prefer a 20K+ hit than a 6-9k hit).

My evidence is spot on since the Sniper line is junk. Any legit ranger will not use the CA since it is PROVEN to drop your dps. All dps classes have their big hit CAs except us. Ours needs a fix and thus the post. I could care less if you ramble about comparisons being stupid, but it proves that the "other" classes can use their while ours just sits there. I suggest helping topic since you agree the CA is broken.

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Old 06-07-2008, 10:18 AM   #16
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[Deleted.  Done wasting my time]

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Old 06-09-2008, 12:56 PM   #17
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You can't really compare a buff that gives 80?(ish) DPS mod and a bit piercing and slashing to a buff that gives a huge amount of extra crit chance, huge amount of dps mod, huge amount of ranged and huge amount of attack speed. Sure it lasts 15 seconds, deadly focus lasts a bit longer, but come on.... comparing oranges to apples ? lol!
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Old 06-09-2008, 03:32 PM   #18
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I have no problems utilizing sniper shot in a raid setting. Ask yourself the following: What's the minimum hasted delay of a 9.0 delay bow? What's the casting and recovery times of Longshank and Sniper Shot put together? Shame on anyone who can't figure out how to use their CA's SMILEY
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Old 06-09-2008, 06:16 PM   #19
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[email protected] wrote:
You can't really compare a buff that gives 80?(ish) DPS mod and a bit piercing and slashing to a buff that gives a huge amount of extra crit chance, huge amount of dps mod, huge amount of ranged and huge amount of attack speed. Sure it lasts 15 seconds, deadly focus lasts a bit longer, but come on.... comparing oranges to apples ? lol!

You are the nimrod that brought this up. Shall I quote thee???

"What you guys are forgetting is we get stuff like Focus Aim, assassins don't.. " (What the heck does that relate to the topic??? Nothing. Nada. Failed again.

If you want to derail the thread by suggesting different CAs, then go ahead. AGAIN, I'm talking about 2 CAs that are identical as far as damage is concern.

Rippitt, your an idiot also. What does Longshank have to do with the casting delay of Sniper Shot???? The delay is still 3+ seconds regardless of what stealth CA you use.  I guess you never played an assassin before since they can punched there biggest hit under 1 second. Hello???

Get the picture??

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Old 06-09-2008, 11:10 PM   #20
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You're a lost cause.
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Old 06-09-2008, 11:25 PM   #21
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[email protected] wrote:
You're a lost cause.

And your lost.

Bow delays....good grief. We are talking about one Combat Art's casting time and why it hurts our overall dps.

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Old 06-10-2008, 12:44 AM   #22
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It hurts YOUR overall dps because you don't seem to understand how to utilize a long casting time skill with a long delay weapon. I don't know how to explain it any clearer than that.
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Old 06-10-2008, 02:35 PM   #23
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Anekuh wrote:

I'll make this a little easier to understand then. Both CAs are the hardest hitting CAs for both classes. Assassins do NOT lose dps when they use their the Decapitate line. However, rangers will lose dps when using the sniper shot line. Therefore, the CA is basically useless.

And here is where you are in error. A Ranger will NOT lose DPS when using the sniper shot line IF he uses it correctly. As we all know, the key to maximum ranger dps is to fire one or more CAs between each one of our auto attacks. With a long delay bow (like eagle's talon), even at maximum haste, we have more than enough time to cast sniper shot. Is it better than every other CA we have (damage/cast time), no. Is it better than any other CA we have (damage/cast time), yes. Therefore at some point in our CA rotation we can and should use sniper shot without losing any DPS. Once every 15 min we should be able to find a situation where we can use this CA to full effect. Frankly that is the difference between a good ranger (one that can use most of his CAs well) and a great ranger (one that can use ALL of his CAs to maximum effect). Is it easier to find this situation with an assassins decap given the shorter cast time, perhaps, but then again he is trying to fit his CAs into a much smaller auto attack window. If his decap were 3 seconds he could never fit his in. With our much larger auto attack window we should have no problem fitting a 3 sec sniper shot into it. Therefore the 3 sec cast time of sniper shot becomes a non issue.
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:59 AM   #24
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Use rear shot to leave sweet spot, while focus aim has around 2sec left. Time it right so an autoattack goes off, right after rear shot. Hit coverage and sniper arrow. Normally it should hit while dispatched is still on the mob. Because casting of sniper started while focus aim was active it will land critically. With dispatched master, coverage master and sniper arrow master you can land hits in the mid or upper 30k. With bard in grp and monk in raid the casting time will be around 3sec. So the ext dps for sniper is 10k and definetly worth casting it.
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