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Old 03-13-2008, 03:15 PM   #1
blackdog1

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The mythical version gives bonus damage for fighting in close correct?Making all rangers come in close to fight, for the bonus.What we have been complaning about forever is not getting bows as an epic quest choice correct?If we have to come in close to get are max damage out of our epic weapon,basically all Sony did was give us another sword with a bow graphic, that needs arrows to use.I know it goes against physics and RL,but wouldn't the rangers be better served if the damaged scaled up the "further" away from the mob that we were as apposed to nearer? Or even give us a sweet spot of say 15 meters that would be max damage.I have also heard(I may be wrong) that they nerfed the bow so we cant use our combat arts while close up?Wouldn't this also fix this problem and the problem that this bow makes "cover" combat art useless?Along with our "repeating arrows"(forgot the name,never use it.LOL) combat art. I think we our the only class that now has 2 useless combat arts once you have this bow. I mean come on we our "RANGE" rs.Why does Sony want us on top of the mob?With our new epic,all we our are Assassin's with "purty wooden stix"I just don't get why Sony is encouraging Rangers to fight in close.The cool part of rangers to me is firing away at the mob from afar.If i want to be right on top of the mob I would have been an Assassin.
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Old 03-13-2008, 04:02 PM   #2
Giland

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Well, technically, as soon as the arrow leaves the bow, it is losing energy. The arrow is getting slower and slower as gravity and friction pull it down and slow it down. So the closer you are to your target, the more force the arrow will actually have when hitting the target.As for coverage, you got me there. No idea why we have combat arts that conflict with what is currently considered the "end game weapon" for rangers.
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Old 03-13-2008, 04:12 PM   #3
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Aye thats what I ment by RL physics. But it goes counter to the purpose of our class.And the last time I looked, no one I know can wiggle their fingers and have fire come out of them.LOL.
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Old 03-13-2008, 04:25 PM   #4
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"Role playing wise"that doesnt make sense to do more damage up close with arrows.When is the last time you hurd of a archer that shoots things up close thats just dumb. If there was a Ranger code this would totally break it. Thats like using a sniper rifle up close because it does more damage thats just stupid sorry  doesn't happen. Rangers are ranged dps so id rather have an assassin if i wanted to shoot things up close. Oh and why would i use a arrow when i can just stab the target with a 30 inch blade? imo the bow is [Removed for Content] backwards it should be other way around farther away the more damage you should do idk maybe because were ranged dps. Also why do we have to position ourselves to get full potential of our weapon, do assasin have to be a certain distance away to get the most of there weapon? just curious.
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Old 03-13-2008, 06:36 PM   #5
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Wow, its hard for me to believe that you are [Removed for Content] about the added dps up close.  Most people complain that the devs dont listen and never have played the classes that they are "fixing".  It seems to me that they got it right this time.  I think that it is fair to say that the majority of rangers that would have the mythical bow do sit up close at about 5m whenever possible for max dps (ie, so they can mix in thier melee CA).  And, furthermore, would complain about the huge nerf if it was changed so that they did more dps the further away they were.  I'm just saying, careful what you wish for....(on a side note, I really have no idea what they were thinking with coverage tho)

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Old 03-13-2008, 07:05 PM   #6
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I quite like the bow. The only real problem I have with it is this (since I've already posted about it, don't want to spam. See link.)

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...411162&#4590881

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Old 03-14-2008, 03:59 AM   #7
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Sick1 wrote:

Wow, its hard for me to believe that you are [I cannot control my vocabulary] about the added dps up close.  Most people complain that the devs dont listen and never have played the classes that they are "fixing".  It seems to me that they got it right this time.  I think that it is fair to say that the majority of rangers that would have the mythical bow do sit up close at about 5m whenever possible for max dps (ie, so they can mix in thier melee CA).  And, furthermore, would complain about the huge nerf if it was changed so that they did more dps the further away they were.  I'm just saying, careful what you wish for....(on a side note, I really have no idea what they were thinking with coverage tho)

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QFE.

The effects on the bow look they were made by somebody who understands how high end Rangers play and also understands a few of the minor problems for Rangers in tightly packed heroic dungeons.

The logic of having the bow and how it works with coverage seems a little odd to me though.

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Old 03-14-2008, 09:12 AM   #8
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blackdog1 wrote:
The mythical version gives bonus damage for fighting in close correct?Making all rangers come in close to fight, for the bonus.What we have been complaning about forever is not getting bows as an epic quest choice correct?If we have to come in close to get are max damage out of our epic weapon,basically all Sony did was give us another sword with a bow graphic, that needs arrows to use.I know it goes against physics and RL,but wouldn't the rangers be better served if the damaged scaled up the "further" away from the mob that we were as apposed to nearer? Or even give us a sweet spot of say 15 meters that would be max damage.I have also heard(I may be wrong) that they nerfed the bow so we cant use our combat arts while close up?Wouldn't this also fix this problem and the problem that this bow makes "cover" combat art useless?Along with our "repeating arrows"(forgot the name,never use it.LOL) combat art. I think we our the only class that now has 2 useless combat arts once you have this bow. I mean come on we our "RANGE" rs.Why does Sony want us on top of the mob?With our new epic,all we our are Assassin's with "purty wooden stix"I just don't get why Sony is encouraging Rangers to fight in close.The cool part of rangers to me is firing away at the mob from afar.If i want to be right on top of the mob I would have been an Assassin.

The issue is partially one of definition. People keep insisting that Rangers are called such due to their ranged abilities.

Definition of the word Ranger (with the most applicable definitions (IMNSHO) highlighted:

rang·er  n.

1. A wanderer; a rover.

2. A member of an armed troop employed in patrolling a specific region.

3. A member of a group of U.S. soldiers specially trained for making raids either on foot, in ground vehicles, or by airlift.

4. a. A warden employed to maintain and protect a natural area, such as a forest or park.     b. Chiefly British The keeper of a royal forest or park.

You will note that nowhere in that definition do they employ the mistaken use of the word ranged. Rangers are those who wander far and wide, patroling and protecting the natural resources of the Crown or body politic. They are not necessarily warriors who fight exclusivly from range. People have gotten a rather twisted view of what a ranger is due to SOE's rather limited implementation of the profession.

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Old 03-14-2008, 03:16 PM   #9
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Sick 1,I perfectly understand about the 5 meters in close fighting to max out dps.I just rather stand out a little further so I'm not in the mass of pixels jabbing and stabbing at the mob.Look it's not that big a deal to me.I just stated what I would prefer have happen and the reasons why I prefer it. It just seems to me the new bow takes away some of our uniqueness and puts us in the crowd with everyone else.To me and my guild high parsing dps is not the be all and end all for us in raids.My guild wants everyone to have fun above all else and play their characters in a manner that the player enjoys.And yet some how we our doing tier a 8 raids and progressing nicely.To me,being up close in a blob of bodies,not being to see half of whats going on,defeats half the point of being a ranger.And Dirty Jack Rackham,That is indeed one definition of the word ranger.But the base word is range.I'm sure you have heard the phrase at range or within range of.And while that does not actually mean with a weapon,in the context of this game ,it can be assumed they are talking about the rangers bow range.Which does include in close but if we our to close,we are outside our range.The only thing we do other than shoot arrows that would apply to being a ranger is tracking.A semi useful skill.Thats even less usefull on raids.Look I'm not saying the ability has to be reversed.That was just one possible fix.I just don't like that to get max damage we have to be within 5 meters away and as I have heard,lose the ability to use our combat arts.Sony is practically saying by the fact we are losing our CA's that we are not ment to be that close to deal damage.We can't use use our bow now at all except for one CA.Why give us bonus damage for being close yet take away the CA's?Why not put the max damage bonus at 15 meters?We don't lose the CA's that way and I'm not on top of the mob and can feel like a ranger.I actually suspect that anything under 25 meters and above 5 meters is where most rangers will fight anyway as you get a 10% in this range and can still use your CA's.Just saying I think the 20% should be in this range or say right at a "exact" range instead of so close.Why would you come within 5 meters of a mob to get 20% bonus on auto attack and lose all your CA's?And once you lose the CA's,you lose the 10% CA combat damage and the 20% normalized combat damage  thats added(What ever that is).I guess jousting if you could time it.Now that I have looked at the bow more closely I think it's more of an issue that you will never see the 20% bonus than bringing the rangers in to close.You have to give up to many other things to actually get the bonus.CA's and all the bonuses that go with it.So I have way less of a problem with it than before.But would still like to have them move the 20% bonus out further so we could actually get it.
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Old 03-14-2008, 03:33 PM   #10
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blackdog1 wrote:
And Dirty Jack Rackham,That is indeed one definition of the word ranger.But the base word is range.I'm sure you have heard the phrase at range or within range of.And while that does not actually mean with a weapon,in the context of this game ,it can be assumed they are talking about the rangers bow range.Which does include in close but if we our to close,we are outside our range.The only thing we do other than shoot arrows that would apply to being a ranger is tracking.A semi useful skill.Thats even less usefull on raids.

Range police incoming...

Dirty Jack is correct.  When talking about Rangers in historical context or in Tolkien Lore, "range" refers to a place, not a fighting style.   Attributing the term Ranger to fighting from range is a result of people making false assumptions due to a lack of knowledge of history and literature.

Those who fight exclusively from ranged are known as archers and snipers, not Rangers.

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Old 03-14-2008, 04:15 PM   #11
blackdog1

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Within the context of this game.I am very sure I said that.I am not disputing his definition in any way.
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Old 03-14-2008, 08:17 PM   #12
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Also, if anyone played EQ1 ... this is a lot more in line with the way Rangers were before. Ranger does not mean ranged combat - though the use of a bow gives you more of a ranged ability - Rangers in lore were traditionally nasty fighters no matter where they were beating up from close up, or far away. I guess it's why these new changes don't bother me so much. I really dig the new bow. =)
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Old 03-15-2008, 01:24 PM   #13
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Blackdog1,

 I am not sure where you are getting your info on mechanics.  And, I dont want to get in some big thing about it.  If you are simply saying that you would rather be a ranger that only attacks from afar to get max damage and that that is your personal preference, well, ok by me.  By then you were saying some things that confused me about losing CA attacks in close.  Well, we dont.  At least not if you are in the sweet spot ie, 2 - 5 meters away. If you stay in that zone, you get to use all your ranged CA, your melee CA and you get the 20% bonus from the bow.  Im glad you like a laid back approach to raiding.  But I think that you will find that most serious raiders (who are the ones that will even get the bow) will sit in the sweet spot with or without the mythical bow, using both melee and ranged CA in every fight that they can in order to do the most dps. And, as such, the mythical bow is perfect for what it is we rangers do for max dps.

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Old 03-15-2008, 01:57 PM   #14
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I'm all for them to toss out Hook Arrow and give a toggle buff that allows all ranged to turn into Melee CA's instead.

Especially since Melee PvP is hardly a viable option for us in it's current state.

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Old 03-15-2008, 07:54 PM   #15
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Sick 1 I read somewhere on these boards that the the bow was nerfed so we couldn't use the CA's when within the 20% damage range of this bow.Maybe thats wrong but their was a thread about people complaining about.
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Old 03-27-2008, 07:41 PM   #16
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LOL are you guys joking? THE # 1 issue with rangers right now is our lack of DPS compared to our brother class the assassin, and you want our bow to do more dmg being 30 meters away?? You do realize we wouldn't be using our melee CA's as often, right? Rangers please focus your efforts to the Arrow Changes forum in the In testing Feedback, and actually try to do our class some good, and stop worrying about silly things.
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Old 03-28-2008, 02:46 PM   #17
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Phillip2005.This post was made before the big brew haha going on now.Hence the reason it was pretty much a dead thread until you dug it up and breathed new life into it.And you do realize that they were reported to be nerfing the bow so you couldn't use any of your ranged combat arts when you were in range of the 20% increase arn't you?So the only way you could get the 20% was by using auto attack.Hence making the 20% useless unless you wanted to try to joust it.That being said I am so glad you took the time from posting on more important issues to dig up a dead thread and complain about us wasting time on it.
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