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Old 12-02-2007, 01:56 PM   #181
Echgar

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Let's try and be a bit more constructive here folks.  I understand being adversarial is in the nature of PvP, but save PvP for in-game.  On the forums, you are welcome to disagree with each other, but please be constructive and courteous.Antagonizing each other with talk of crying, whining, or similar really isn't necessary to make your point.  If your point is to antagonize each other, take it somewhere other than the official forums please.
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Old 12-02-2007, 03:21 PM   #182
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Echgar wrote:
Let's try and be a bit more constructive here folks.  I understand being adversarial is in the nature of PvP, but save PvP for in-game.  On the forums, you are welcome to disagree with each other, but please be constructive and courteous.Antagonizing each other with talk of crying, whining, or similar really isn't necessary to make your point.  If your point is to antagonize each other, take it somewhere other than the official forums please.
Ya, only time I use these forums is if I see a post that I think the dev's need to really pay attention to.  Then I'll post my opinion on it..cause you know my opinion matters!90% of the time though for any forum fun this isn't the place to be.  Look for eq2flames naggy forum for the real eq2 forum.
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Old 12-03-2007, 12:56 PM   #183
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Hmmm.

As a ranger, i lost my ability to deliver class defining dps for pvp with the nerfs to focus aim etc.

Ranged ca's are neither excessively slow nor lightning fast. There is plenty of time to be spotted.

I can't tell the skill of the player from track, only the con (i have had more success pvp'ing yellow and orange con players who are titled similar to me and have had my butt handed to me by blue and green con twinked toons).

My melee arts are for the most part, weak.

Kiting is much more difficult than it used to be - stun feels weaker and snares feel weaker also.

I can't heal myself.

I can't one shot an even con.

I have no mana shield.

I cant take damage worth a crap (i have all mastercrafted and leg. gear).

Everyone has totems to see me, so the stealth thing is not that big of deal.

My point is this: every class has strengths and weaknesses. Scouts track - thats what we do and its definately helpful for pvp and group pve stuff. On the other hand, we (meaning rangers) are the red headed step children in raids because we bring no buffs to the group and are out dps'd by casters.

Truthfully, i have probably seen more high titled druids on the server (vox) than any other class, and I'm not asking for them to be nerfed.

It just depends on what kind of content and play style you like to play. I wish everyone would stop calling for nerfs of other classes just becuase one class or another has an advantage some others.

Pick the content you are inclined to enjoy, and select a character that best suits it while realizing your strengths are going to present you with greater challenges in other areas.

If you don't like pvp, then go to a non-pvp server where track, self heal, mana sheild, taunt etc are not a problem.

SMILEY

P.S. sorry for the typos, etc

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Old 12-03-2007, 03:39 PM   #184
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voxranger wrote:

Hmmm.

As a ranger, i lost my ability to deliver class defining dps for pvp with the nerfs to focus aim etc. But still able to bring most toons to 15% or less health in 5 seconds.

Ranged ca's are neither excessively slow nor lightning fast. There is plenty of time to be spotted. Did they nerf the instant casting? or do you still have them macro'd to 2 buttons?

I can't tell the skill of the player from track, only the con (i have had more success pvp'ing yellow and orange con players who are titled similar to me and have had my butt handed to me by blue and green con twinked toons). Must be doing something wrong on your end. Maybe wrong AAs or lousy gear.

My melee arts are for the most part, weak. Your stregnths are in your ranged attacks, but melee is enough to give you time enough for your ranged CAs to recharge.

Kiting is much more difficult than it used to be - stun feels weaker and snares feel weaker also. Who says you're supposed to be able to kite?

I can't heal myself. Use potions, like all other non-healing classes

I can't one shot an even con. Were you under the impression you're supposed to?

I have no mana shield. You have speed, stealth, tracking, and poisons to get get them before they have the chance to cast MS.

I cant take damage worth a crap (i have all mastercrafted and leg. gear). Get your custom PVP gear like all the other rangers

Everyone has totems to see me, so the stealth thing is not that big of deal. Not when you use it to wait and sneak attack while they're fighting mobs.

My point is this: every class has strengths and weaknesses. Scouts track - thats what we do and its definately helpful for pvp and group pve stuff. On the other hand, we (meaning rangers) are the red headed step children in raids because we bring no buffs to the group and are out dps'd by casters. I do believe track is a vital utility for PVE, but for PVP it is an unfair advantage on a game of player competition. All DPS is good for raids, like said, check your gear or AA lines to see if you're maxing your output.

Truthfully, i have probably seen more high titled druids on the server (vox) than any other class, and I'm not asking for them to be nerfed. Well first, look at the server you're on, second RoK seems to have been made for druids with gear and such, SO FAR ( wait for updates to even things out more )

It just depends on what kind of content and play style you like to play. I wish everyone would stop calling for nerfs of other classes just becuase one class or another has an advantage some others. No comment on your server

Pick the content you are inclined to enjoy, and select a character that best suits it while realizing your strengths are going to present you with greater challenges in other areas. That was/is the problem with rangers, they had no challenge to their class in PVP. Their ability to 1 shot ( meaning 1 macro button) to do enough dmg and effects to kill clothies in 2 seconds, from a farther range than a mage can cast.

If you don't like pvp, then go to a non-pvp server where track, self heal, mana sheild, taunt etc are not a problem.

SMILEY

P.S. sorry for the typos, etc

 Sorry to pop this bubble, but playing on Vox is not the best example of the real issues of PVP. No offence intended, but VoX in not highly considered as it's an exchange server, not real work for your toon kind.

My suggestion is to talk to someone on Naggy for advise on how to be a better ranger ( or lame player IMO ).

You'll notice a big difference I'm sure.

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Old 12-03-2007, 04:20 PM   #185
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Allow me to tell you why there is so much stink about track.

 Because it isnt tracking.

Ill give you the only example yo need to see why the abiliity blows.

A ranger flies over on a bird in jarsath Wastes.

He locks me on his track .

Now untill i zone or log out .. im on his map .

I can run all of the way across the map. run thru lava flows rivers lakes .. take birds.

It wont matter he has me locked on his map and watches me run arround the map.

He is using cat totems , so he is tiny , he is stealthed . and can now hide behind small rocks or shrubs.

He will now follow me arround endlessly waiting till i engage a fight witha mob and my health is at 60%

The 2 shot me from behind.

I cant see him even with totems becasue he is in cat or snake form and can hide behind small terrain objects.

he flew over my head ona mout immune from danger .. saw my name flash across his window . Jumped off in stealth and waited till my little X on his map stoped moving (Im fighting) ..then walked up to collet his free token ......

Geeee wonder why scout are in full PvP gear ... months before everyone else.

The skill needs looking at ... Witht he expansion and massive overland zones ..

Tracking + high run speed + snare + stealth = Uber

To the ranger above you are not the read headed step child.

All of the non scout classes are.

Untill you can counter tracking .. or get your little X off some scouts window who sits at the zone in .. tracking people to arrive to the zone and tell the gank squad of his friends where you are till they kill you ... its bogus

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Old 12-03-2007, 04:22 PM   #186
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Personaly i have already tossed out my 72 swashy, and have moved on to other classes.  Ones i know wont be getting hit by the nerf bat everytime i turn around.  I find it rediculous the attacks on the scout classes and thier abilities.  My wife plays a 72 fury, we are equally geared, and she can destroy people in pvp that i don't last more then a couple seconds against.  Yet people can do nothing but yell for scout nerfs.   Stealth is already out the window, our DPS has been nerfed now to the point where we can only attack people in the right situations if we want to have any chance.  And now take track out so we just become weak fighters. 

Well atleast we still have evac so we can run away every 15 minutes from a pvp fight.  Coarse that will get nerfed next.

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Old 12-03-2007, 04:35 PM   #187
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Gareorn wrote:

You're saying that the tracking ability of scouts in EQ2 is like radar compared to the tracking ability of scouts in the other MMO's on the market?  Hardley.  As a matter of fact, EQ2 tracking is the gimpiest of all the MMO's I've ever played.  Slice it anyway you want, you're still asking to have other classes' primary PvP abilities to be rendered useless.  The same abilities you knew they had when you chose which class to play.

There is no way you are going to convince me you didn't know scouts could track or that you didn't know how tracking generally works in MMORPGs when you rolled your PvP character.  Besides, it's much more fun figuring out how to defeat an opponent's advantages and making the most of one's disadvantages.  Asking to have other classes nerfed seems a bit lazy.

Actualy when i made my toon i had no idea what scouts had for skills abilities.  I had never played EQ2 other than the lv 7 toon i had used a trial for.  Darksavanna is my only real toon i have some alts in the 20s but iam easly boared with alts and dont play them.

To assume that everyone had a PvE toon before PvP is a bit redundent.  A warlock tought me how to tank.

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Old 12-03-2007, 04:38 PM   #188
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KannaWhoopass wrote:

Allow me to tell you why there is so much stink about track.

 Because it isnt tracking.

Ill give you the only example yo need to see why the abiliity blows.

A ranger flies over on a bird in jarsath Wastes.

He locks me on his track .

Now untill i zone or log out .. im on his map .

I can run all of the way across the map. run thru lava flows rivers lakes .. take birds.

It wont matter he has me locked on his map and watches me run arround the map.

He is using cat totems , so he is tiny , he is stealthed . and can now hide behind small rocks or shrubs.

He will now follow me arround endlessly waiting till i engage a fight witha mob and my health is at 60%

The 2 shot me from behind.

I cant see him even with totems becasue he is in cat or snake form and can hide behind small terrain objects.

he flew over my head ona mout immune from danger .. saw my name flash across his window . Jumped off in stealth and waited till my little X on his map stoped moving (Im fighting) ..then walked up to collet his free token ......

Geeee wonder why scout are in full PvP gear ... months before everyone else.

The skill needs looking at ... Witht he expansion and massive overland zones ..

Tracking + high run speed + snare + stealth = Uber

To the ranger above you are not the read headed step child.

All of the non scout classes are.

Untill you can counter tracking .. or get your little X off some scouts window who sits at the zone in .. tracking people to arrive to the zone and tell the gank squad of his friends where you are till they kill you ... its bogus

1. locking on you for more then a couple of secs. means he can't track anything else for that long; noone in his right mind would do that... it's just a nice story of yours. And if he does that, he'll probably die alot; rightfully so. You see where he is, you close track.In all the games I've played, I had a character which had track... heck, even in wow I had a hunter, even though they sucked so bad... Information is the key they say... and I fully agree. And no, that doesn't mean track is op. - I was being accused of wall hacks and kicked from cs servers just because I had the brains to watch the radar... most ppl. are clueless in what to do with information in the 1st place.This is by far the worst track ability in any mmo. which has implemented a tracking ability. You can track precisely one player, you have to bare with a darn big map splashed all over your screen if you want to see where the guy is, it updates once every... an eternity(the guy gets out of instance, runs past me, I jump him, take him to orange when he shows up on track - and no, doesn't mean scouts are op., means he just had a rag tag gear if he went on orange in 3 hits tbh).2. I fail to see how he can see you from half the map that you're engaged. And if he waited to see the small x to stop moving, chances are that, till he's sure that the buggy thing is updated, starts moving and reaches the place where you are, you're already done fighting and even back to full hp... I mean, really, do you ppl. believe what you come up with?
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Old 12-03-2007, 04:39 PM   #189
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Well, track removal will be fine for all classes BUT ranger because lack of long-range enemy detection completely eliminates pvp for rangers when they can't get jump on you and kill you in 2 seconds or use their almost-100%-sprint to run away from you every time you manage to get closer than 50m to them. Oh, wait, track removal is gonna fix ALL issues with rangerclass in pvp?
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Old 12-03-2007, 05:20 PM   #190
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Pumancat, I also have a Wizard (surprise, surprise), a Monk, and a Warden.  I like the classes.  My Swash was rolled after me and my friends got our [Removed for Content] handed to us over a period of a month, the first month (how many here remember that first Nagafen month?), when Wardens weren't a solid class yet.  Of course that's when certain other evil aligned classes were ... bugged.  I grew to enjoy playing a Swashbuckler quite a bit, ended up deleting the original Warden and rerolling.  I'd love to get my Warden up to T8, but when friends need somebody in a group for DPS, I go, meaning my Warden is taking a painful, extremely long time to level up.  Sue me.  Warlocks are the OP flavor of the month right now.  Every group I've run into lately has 2 Warlocks and 2 Druids in it, with either SK's, Brigs or Zerkers filling up the last 2 slots.  Cookie-cutter.  But extremely effective, as two Rifts and a couple of massive AOE dots can drop a group rather soundly.  I've responded politely to you, please show the same courtesy and skip the L2P comments.

Tracking does not cover a zone.  Not even half.  In fact, if you're at the forge by the docks, the tracking ends a bit past where the Freeps revive/evac to, but not as far as the castle.  It's not Radar in that sense.  And when names show up, they're the same con as friendlies; at closer range they change color.  Try rolling a scout if you're convinced otherwise, and you'll see.  It updates once per tick.  A lot can change in 6 seconds.  That orange-con group you're chasing suddenly turns into 2 and a half groups ... and it's the visuals rather than tracking that lets you know half the time.  People wanting to tweak it, fine, I can understand that, and there have been some good suggestions made as to how.  But something to completely counter it ... I'll take my new Pendant of Rift Warding to counterbalance it. 

For what it's worth, my PC's pretty good.  With dual cards in SLI and 4 gigs of ram, I have rendering set at max distance, and get to look at the game with most of the bells & whistles cranked.  I can still pick out most targets that are at the edge of or beyond reliable tracking range, meaning the path closest to the Sokokar post out to just about the first big tree by the Drachnids.  Most of the other players I know don't have that sort of visual range for their game.  Meaning I'll probably be affected by it less than what I expect is the majority on both sides.  Doesn't mean I want to see it happen.  Personally, I like the idea of negating it during flight; that works on everybody both ways, and that could increase PvP at or near the bird posts. 

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Old 12-03-2007, 05:44 PM   #191
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Pumancat wrote:
voxranger wrote:

Hmmm.

As a ranger, i lost my ability to deliver class defining dps for pvp with the nerfs to focus aim etc. But still able to bring most toons to 15% or less health in 5 seconds.

Ranged ca's are neither excessively slow nor lightning fast. There is plenty of time to be spotted. Did they nerf the instant casting? or do you still have them macro'd to 2 buttons?

I can't tell the skill of the player from track, only the con (i have had more success pvp'ing yellow and orange con players who are titled similar to me and have had my butt handed to me by blue and green con twinked toons). Must be doing something wrong on your end. Maybe wrong AAs or lousy gear.

My melee arts are for the most part, weak. Your stregnths are in your ranged attacks, but melee is enough to give you time enough for your ranged CAs to recharge.

Kiting is much more difficult than it used to be - stun feels weaker and snares feel weaker also. Who says you're supposed to be able to kite?

I can't heal myself. Use potions, like all other non-healing classes

I can't one shot an even con. Were you under the impression you're supposed to?

I have no mana shield. You have speed, stealth, tracking, and poisons to get get them before they have the chance to cast MS.

I cant take damage worth a crap (i have all mastercrafted and leg. gear). Get your custom PVP gear like all the other rangers

Everyone has totems to see me, so the stealth thing is not that big of deal. Not when you use it to wait and sneak attack while they're fighting mobs.

My point is this: every class has strengths and weaknesses. Scouts track - thats what we do and its definately helpful for pvp and group pve stuff. On the other hand, we (meaning rangers) are the red headed step children in raids because we bring no buffs to the group and are out dps'd by casters. I do believe track is a vital utility for PVE, but for PVP it is an unfair advantage on a game of player competition. All DPS is good for raids, like said, check your gear or AA lines to see if you're maxing your output.

Truthfully, i have probably seen more high titled druids on the server (vox) than any other class, and I'm not asking for them to be nerfed. Well first, look at the server you're on, second RoK seems to have been made for druids with gear and such, SO FAR ( wait for updates to even things out more )

It just depends on what kind of content and play style you like to play. I wish everyone would stop calling for nerfs of other classes just becuase one class or another has an advantage some others. No comment on your server

Pick the content you are inclined to enjoy, and select a character that best suits it while realizing your strengths are going to present you with greater challenges in other areas. That was/is the problem with rangers, they had no challenge to their class in PVP. Their ability to 1 shot ( meaning 1 macro button) to do enough dmg and effects to kill clothies in 2 seconds, from a farther range than a mage can cast.

If you don't like pvp, then go to a non-pvp server where track, self heal, mana sheild, taunt etc are not a problem.

SMILEY

P.S. sorry for the typos, etc

 Sorry to pop this bubble, but playing on Vox is not the best example of the real issues of PVP. No offence intended, but VoX in not highly considered as it's an exchange server, not real work for your toon kind.

My suggestion is to talk to someone on Naggy for advise on how to be a better ranger ( or lame player IMO ).

You'll notice a big difference I'm sure.

Anarcheru - 75 bruiser

Nyarlath - 71 wizard

Venekor server

Please -- I dont understand your need to dis vox in a thread about track.  Regardless you do not know what your talking about.  SE doesnt have a single thing to do with the quality of the players in pvp.  Vox has its fair share of outstanding pvp players.  If you don't believe me, leave that wasteland you call venekor and come buy on a toon on vox and will see how you do.

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Old 12-03-2007, 06:57 PM   #192
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Gareorn wrote:
[email protected] wrote:

I actually LOL when i see the scouts here crying.

Now you might be (gosh) more in line with other classes? Stop your snivelling.

Wow...  Just wow!  An entire thread devoted to a handfull of people who don't play a scout class complaining about how scouts are over powered because they can "track" and you think it's the scouts who are crying?  You might take your own advice about that sniveling thing.
I played a ranger up to T6, and apart from breathing, it was probably the easiest thing i've ever done. Don't insult in ignorance.
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Old 12-03-2007, 08:02 PM   #193
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[email protected] wrote:
Gareorn wrote:
[email protected] wrote:

I actually LOL when i see the scouts here crying.

Now you might be (gosh) more in line with other classes? Stop your snivelling.

Wow...  Just wow!  An entire thread devoted to a handfull of people who don't play a scout class complaining about how scouts are over powered because they can "track" and you think it's the scouts who are crying?  You might take your own advice about that sniveling thing.
I played a ranger up to T6, and apart from breathing, it was probably the easiest thing i've ever done. Don't insult in ignorance.
Like everyone else that calls for nerfs to other classes.  This is all you have to work with...  Another unwarranted attack while providing nothing to the discussion.  Not surprised at all.  Call me when you have something to add.
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Old 12-03-2007, 08:50 PM   #194
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You take away tracking, you better give all those SCOUTS something to make then scouts.  Personally I would like to see them remove friendly toons from tracking so only the enemy show up.

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Old 12-03-2007, 11:24 PM   #195
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*sigh*

Track it what we do.  Why do people have such a big fit over scouts being scouts.  When I go play FPS games, no one complains about snipers (essentially scouts) having radar equipment...  I don't hear people on WoW complaining as much about hunters having track abilities...  If your a tank then your job is taking damage, but I want you nerfed because it is hard for me to kill you quickly becuase of your mitigation....  Sounds dumb, right?  That is exactly what I am hearing from this thread.  Casters can manashield and nuke me to death without me ever being to able to scratch them...  Same thing as what I'm reading.  Healers can outheal my damage rating...  Guess what, same thing.  Spend the time you spend complaining on these forums and go work on your pvp strategies if you want to win against better players.

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Old 12-03-2007, 11:31 PM   #196
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(( GOODNESSS!!!!!!!90% of you anti-scout petitioners have a VERY distorted idea on what tracking is like these days.You all think its like the old days of huge track range and super uber powerful tracking screen of many features.(PS. before i start, let me just say i like track as is. Im not complaining, just clarifying)Track is [Removed for Content]. It will only nowadays tell you who is within bow-range (AT BEST). And when they are in bow range, you are in theirs, and/or spell range.It is NOT a radar. Radar updates in a regular sweeping motion. Track updates are erratic and untrustworthy. Radar tells you how close the targets are to you. Track does nothing of the sort. It tells you if there is Something THERE, but if you trust your track window, youll be a dead scout.There is NO perma track lock. Its got a rough decay and after a set time, the X on our maps dissapears and we lose the target.Its basically a cosmetic feature these days. Its a 'here is a list of people who are currently casting a spell on you' (because of the extreme short range).And when we are tracking one person, you think the scout is a super stealthy deathmachine. Well guess whatWhen the scout is TrackING someone, their track window is closed, and they are blind to the world. Think about that, and use it to your advantage. You can only have your track window open to see proximity targets, or track a single target, and lose the proximity targets list. Not both.Its really, really not as powerful as y'all think it isThis thread really goes to show the power of the 'forum bandwagon'. Quick! Everyone! hitch a ride! Dont bother researching the current state of the game, just jump on and join me in my jihad!  /sarcSeriously, roll a scout, get them to level 50. By then you should have a SOLID understanding of the 'overpoweredness' that is Track. (/extreme sarcasm)
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Old 12-03-2007, 11:43 PM   #197
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If tracking sucks so bad and is not useful at all, as many scouts have said in this thread, then why do you care SOO much if a track based item that costs status and/or tokens is added to the game for non-scout classes?
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Old 12-03-2007, 11:45 PM   #198
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Jaydawarlord wrote:

*sigh*

Track it what we do.  Why do people have such a big fit over scouts being scouts.  When I go play FPS games, no one complains about snipers (essentially scouts) having radar equipment...  I don't hear people on WoW complaining as much about hunters having track abilities...  If your a tank then your job is taking damage, but I want you nerfed because it is hard for me to kill you quickly becuase of your mitigation....  Sounds dumb, right?  That is exactly what I am hearing from this thread.  Casters can manashield and nuke me to death without me ever being to able to scratch them...  Same thing as what I'm reading.  Healers can outheal my damage rating...  Guess what, same thing.  Spend the time you spend complaining on these forums and go work on your pvp strategies if you want to win against better players.

However, those games don't have PvP gear that is purchased using tokens, that you get from killing PvP targets. Tracking classes have it waaaay easier to find targets and get tokens. Take away token system and this thread would have never existed.Edited to add** IMO, token system should be scrapped, PvP titles should be redone to reflect total kills on a decay system(making it very very hard to reach higher titles) and PvP gear purchased only when you obtain that title. Still leaves it a tad easier for trackers, but should avoid calls for nerfs. Also, tokens encourage you to roll solo, since you get the token no matter what, in groups tokens are very hard to actually obtain. Total kills would be great for groups, as everyone would get credit for the kill, as opposed to only one person in group winning tokens.
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Old 12-04-2007, 12:05 AM   #199
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[email protected] wrote:
If tracking sucks so bad and is not useful at all, as many scouts have said in this thread, then why do you care SOO much if a track based item that costs status and/or tokens is added to the game for non-scout classes?

Actually, as a ranger/scout, I have no problem with an item being added that reduces track.

Its all the other people saying remove track that I have a disagreement with.

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Old 12-04-2007, 12:56 AM   #200
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[email protected] wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
If tracking sucks so bad and is not useful at all, as many scouts have said in this thread, then why do you care SOO much if a track based item that costs status and/or tokens is added to the game for non-scout classes?

Actually, as a ranger/scout, I have no problem with an item being added that reduces track.

Its all the other people saying remove track that I have a disagreement with.

Nice! I agree with a Ranger SMILEYRemoving track would make PvP hard to find, giving not so easy to obtain track range reducer and/or tracking totem would be best solution.
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Old 12-04-2007, 01:04 AM   #201
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Well, i played a necro for a year and a half before i rolled a trouby and lvl'd him to 70.  Now whenever i get on my necro i feel blind Because i dont know who's near me.  So i'll say that track DOES make a difference in pvp.  Anyone who says track is useless nowadays is a [Removed for Content] liar or isn't using it effectively.  However, its not the uber, "I win because i have this ability" that everyone says it is.  Its something that scouts get that improves their usefulness in a group setting and helps them avoid dying while solo.  Maybe thats too much of an advantage for some of you, but to me (im a caster at heart tbh) i dont feel that track gives scouts an advantage over me in pvp.  If their was an item that you could buy that gave you track, i'd be ok with that, but i dont think i myself would get it for my necro.  Now if you wanna discuss the fact that preds/rouges can kill you in less time than it takes for you to save yourself, then by all means make a thread about that (or reply to the hundreds that already exist) but dont [Removed for Content] about track because other classes have things that are just as useful (except summoners but thats a different topic)
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Old 12-04-2007, 02:56 AM   #202
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I have played 2 scouts to 70 on PVP and now play a 77 warlock. I also have a 47 ranger and 58 swash. I am also mainly a solo player or only have 1-2 people with me. I would rather see tracking PCs removed on PVP servers instead of giving everyone a track item. 

If tracking PCs was removed along with can't revive while group members are in pvp combat and no fame loss on death, this would be the perfect game. 

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Old 12-04-2007, 03:18 AM   #203
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[email protected] wrote:
If tracking sucks so bad and is not useful at all, as many scouts have said in this thread, then why do you care SOO much if a track based item that costs status and/or tokens is added to the game for non-scout classes?
Hate to bring up 3rd party programs or exploits.. but, the reason its brought up is that Scouts who play by the rules are not the fail-safe hunters that we're made out to be.If tracking were removed all together.. I guarantee there would still be people hunting people down and killing them by other means. And, I don't mean "line of sight".A great example of what the person you were replying to was trying to disclose... I was in SS tonight and I happened to turn around and mouse over an orange standing right above me on a dune, inside of my attack range. He did not appear in my Tracking window. Then maybe 15 or 20 seconds later.. poof.. orange in my tracking window.This is hardly a tool if we have to kiss them on the cheek first to determine where they are at. I guarantee that those "lethal & unescapable" scouts out there are not relying on the tracking window alone. Thus, nerfing the tracking ability is not going to solve anyone's problem.
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Old 12-04-2007, 06:49 AM   #204
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-Arctura- wrote:
(( GOODNESSS!!!!!!!90% of you anti-scout petitioners have a VERY distorted idea on what tracking is like these days.You all think its like the old days of huge track range and super uber powerful tracking screen of many features.(PS. before i start, let me just say i like track as is. Im not complaining, just clarifying)Track is [Removed for Content]. It will only nowadays tell you who is within bow-range (AT BEST). And when they are in bow range, you are in theirs, and/or spell range.It is NOT a radar. Radar updates in a regular sweeping motion. Track updates are erratic and untrustworthy. Radar tells you how close the targets are to you. Track does nothing of the sort. It tells you if there is Something THERE, but if you trust your track window, youll be a dead scout.No, you won't die. Because all you need to do is press: (That must be very difficult.)There is NO perma track lock. Its got a rough decay and after a set time, the X on our maps dissapears and we lose the target. Its basically a cosmetic feature these days. Its a 'here is a list of people who are currently casting a spell on you' (because of the extreme short range).And when we are tracking one person, you think the scout is a super stealthy deathmachine. Well guess whatWhen the scout is TrackING someone, their track window is closed, and they are blind to the world. Think about that, and use it to your advantage. You can only have your track window open to see proximity targets, or track a single target, and lose the proximity targets list. Not both.Its really, really not as powerful as y'all think it isWell, if you need an update on who else is nearby, you just open the window again to check, then continue to follow the HUGE BIG GOLDEN TRAIL to your target. You even get a giant X on your map that shows your target's exact location when you start tracking someone.This thread really goes to show the power of the 'forum bandwagon'. Quick! Everyone! hitch a ride! Dont bother researching the current state of the game, just jump on and join me in my jihad!  /sarcSeriously, roll a scout, get them to level 50. By then you should have a SOLID understanding of the 'overpoweredness' that is Track. (/extreme sarcasm)I do have a scout. Granted, the level is a little lower than 50 - but track is an amazing tool to find targets. When I play that character, I always know who is nearby, their con and ca. how far away they are. If I don't see their con, they are either Qs or very far away. A quick /who (which I have macroed) will reveal that information as well. Basically, the track window tells me everything I need to know. If I don't want to die, I never have to as a scout. I only die when: A) I lose a fight I choose to engage in or B) I get too impatient to wait for my 15 min (!) recast evac to refresh.
But you can keep your track for all I care, to be honest. It does have a function, and I'm sure it also leads to more PvP in these huge zones. It also make scouts more valuable in groups, which is a good thing. So far so good, but...The ability to track is a very powerful tool that should NEVER have been combined with evac. Nobody should be able to pick and choose their battles that easily.It's also a pity with the token system, because it encourages scouts to ditch the groups and just go out alone instead. That way they don't have to share their tokens with anyone, and most scouts are more than capable of racking up tons of kills on their own. That is why scouts will be the first ones to get a full set of PvP gear this time around, too - long before everyone else. Many classes are actually much better off raiding for their gear than hoping to ever get it through PvP.
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Old 12-04-2007, 07:22 AM   #205
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-Arctura- wrote:
(( GOODNESSS!!!!!!!Track is [Removed for Content]. It will only nowadays tell you who is within bow-range (AT BEST). And when they are in bow range, you are in theirs, and/or spell range.It is NOT a radar. Radar updates in a regular sweeping motion. Track updates are erratic and untrustworthy. Radar tells you how close the targets are to you. Track does nothing of the sort. It tells you if there is Something THERE, but if you trust your track window, youll be a dead scout.There is NO perma track lock. Its got a rough decay and after a set time, the X on our maps dissapears and we lose the target.Its basically a cosmetic feature these days. Its a 'here is a list of people who are currently casting a spell on you' (because of the extreme short range).This thread really goes to show the power of the 'forum bandwagon'. Quick! Everyone! hitch a ride! Dont bother researching the current state of the game, just jump on and join me in my jihad!  /sarc

Last time I opened up a track window (I think it was sunday) I could find a target, click to track and open my map to find him as much as about 100m away. I have tracked on 4 differnt scouts, and it has always been very powerful. I've also been able to follow the same 1 cross for 10minutes+.

When scouts need to start lying to make a point, you know the argument is won.

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Old 12-04-2007, 08:16 AM   #206
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I think you were missing the whole point of my posted reply.

No, i am not the best ranger when it comes to pvp or otherwise.

No, I do not play on Naggy, but I can also remember when you could walk 6 feet in vox without running into a larger group of gankers.

No, i do not wear pvp gear - I actually like a mix of content so vox suits me fine there. I can pve without being constantly harrassed, or, I can pvp when I want to.

Yes Vox is an exchange server, and who gives a crap, just means its easier to twink your toon.

Yes I have often been killed (even one-shoted) by pvp while engaged on a mob....Etc, Etc, Etc

The point I was trying to make is every class as a distinct and decided advantage over others, and some of those advantages lend themselves better to pvp and some lend themselves better to pve(especially groups). DEAL WITH IT. As was implied in my earlier post, its far easier for me to find a group for pvp then get picked up for a raid. I also understand Im likely to come out on the losing end against some classes. Lastly, because of refresh timers and pvper sprinting into zones (i.e. the docks in rok) i often dont see players on track until they are right on top of me, and usually, the opposing players have a scout anyway.

Man, people can be so quick to criticize the advantages of classes they dont play, call for nerfs, while at complaining about getting something else they want.

It is after all a game, not real life and death here folks. Get a grip, play the game, win some, lose some, have fun.

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Old 12-04-2007, 09:06 AM   #207
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[email protected] wrote:
-Arctura- wrote:
(( GOODNESSS!!!!!!!Track is [Removed for Content]. It will only nowadays tell you who is within bow-range (AT BEST). And when they are in bow range, you are in theirs, and/or spell range.It is NOT a radar. Radar updates in a regular sweeping motion. Track updates are erratic and untrustworthy. Radar tells you how close the targets are to you. Track does nothing of the sort. It tells you if there is Something THERE, but if you trust your track window, youll be a dead scout.There is NO perma track lock. Its got a rough decay and after a set time, the X on our maps dissapears and we lose the target.Its basically a cosmetic feature these days. Its a 'here is a list of people who are currently casting a spell on you' (because of the extreme short range).This thread really goes to show the power of the 'forum bandwagon'. Quick! Everyone! hitch a ride! Dont bother researching the current state of the game, just jump on and join me in my jihad!  /sarc

Last time I opened up a track window (I think it was sunday) I could find a target, click to track and open my map to find him as much as about 100m away. I have tracked on 4 differnt scouts, and it has always been very powerful. I've also been able to follow the same 1 cross for 10minutes+.

When scouts need to start lying to make a point, you know the argument is won.

Maybe it's just since (in?) Kunark but you are wrong and Arctura is correct. The X disappears after a while. Don't know yet if it is time or proximity based.About track distance, in Kunark I see opponents before they appear on track most of the time so I should have a fair graps on the distance. It may be correct that you can detec someone at 100 meters (double the arrow range) but if I were to guess I'd say it's less.I'd guess most people here think it's unfair that I can find you and ambush you while you're killing mobs? That's moot cause I would do that without track too. It's a question of pvping actively or doing pve on a pvp server. The pvp:ers I'll fight, the pve:ers I'll ambush. Even scouts.My 3 lowbie toons don't care about track, they just turn around and kill the scout. When they pvp, of course.
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Old 12-04-2007, 09:14 AM   #208
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Yea the last time i used it was in Kunark, although I've been able to follow people around ages in CL with just 'one' track.

Let me just point out that I have not once said whether or not I think track should be removed/adjusted, so please don't anyone assume I'm against the scouts here SMILEY

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Old 12-04-2007, 09:52 AM   #209
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Amphibia wrote:
-Arctura- wrote:
(( GOODNESSS!!!!!!!90% of you anti-scout petitioners have a VERY distorted idea on what tracking is like these days.You all think its like the old days of huge track range and super uber powerful tracking screen of many features.(PS. before i start, let me just say i like track as is. Im not complaining, just clarifying)Track is [Removed for Content]. It will only nowadays tell you who is within bow-range (AT BEST). And when they are in bow range, you are in theirs, and/or spell range.It is NOT a radar. Radar updates in a regular sweeping motion. Track updates are erratic and untrustworthy. Radar tells you how close the targets are to you. Track does nothing of the sort. It tells you if there is Something THERE, but if you trust your track window, youll be a dead scout.No, you won't die. Because all you need to do is press: (That must be very difficult.)There is NO perma track lock. Its got a rough decay and after a set time, the X on our maps dissapears and we lose the target. Its basically a cosmetic feature these days. Its a 'here is a list of people who are currently casting a spell on you' (because of the extreme short range).And when we are tracking one person, you think the scout is a super stealthy deathmachine. Well guess whatWhen the scout is TrackING someone, their track window is closed, and they are blind to the world. Think about that, and use it to your advantage. You can only have your track window open to see proximity targets, or track a single target, and lose the proximity targets list. Not both.Its really, really not as powerful as y'all think it isWell, if you need an update on who else is nearby, you just open the window again to check, then continue to follow the HUGE BIG GOLDEN TRAIL to your target. You even get a giant X on your map that shows your target's exact location when you start tracking someone.This thread really goes to show the power of the 'forum bandwagon'. Quick! Everyone! hitch a ride! Dont bother researching the current state of the game, just jump on and join me in my jihad!  /sarcSeriously, roll a scout, get them to level 50. By then you should have a SOLID understanding of the 'overpoweredness' that is Track. (/extreme sarcasm)I do have a scout. Granted, the level is a little lower than 50 - but track is an amazing tool to find targets. When I play that character, I always know who is nearby, their con and ca. how far away they are. If I don't see their con, they are either Qs or very far away. A quick /who (which I have macroed) will reveal that information as well. Basically, the track window tells me everything I need to know. If I don't want to die, I never have to as a scout. I only die when: A) I lose a fight I choose to engage in or B) I get too impatient to wait for my 15 min (!) recast evac to refresh.
But you can keep your track for all I care, to be honest. It does have a function, and I'm sure it also leads to more PvP in these huge zones. It also make scouts more valuable in groups, which is a good thing. So far so good, but...The ability to track is a very powerful tool that should NEVER have been combined with evac. Nobody should be able to pick and choose their battles that easily.It's also a pity with the token system, because it encourages scouts to ditch the groups and just go out alone instead. That way they don't have to share their tokens with anyone, and most scouts are more than capable of racking up tons of kills on their own. That is why scouts will be the first ones to get a full set of PvP gear this time around, too - long before everyone else. Many classes are actually much better off raiding for their gear than hoping to ever get it through PvP.

In my experience as a scout since release, scouts only evac when they think they are going to die. There is really nothing tht apositive about it apart from denying yourself and the enemy a kill. Thats right, no oen gets a kill..

As a scout nothing would make me more happy than never to evac and to fight every one I come across, however, people have the tendency not to play fair in this game (and all games). This is war, it's not supposed to be fair all the time! this is fine, so when that grp is running at my solo toon I will evac to save myself. Nothing wrong with this.

Sure some title [Removed for Content] use evac to maintain their title, but who cares about titles anyway? lol. I would evac if I was losing infamy as an overseer or a hunter personally if I thought I have very little to no chance of winning.

Track is powerful , I have to agree. Skree is looking at tracking as a half empty glass of water, most non-scouts (even if they have scout alts) see it as a little OP. I think it is somewhere in between. There have been many occassions when I can see someone in the distance before they come on track. This is especially relavent in ROk with all the big zones.

I have also tracked 1 person and found a group and not been able to get away. In this case, track was bad.

I have on countless occasions been tracking 1 person (track is down now), and engaged only to find someone else was stalking me. In this situation tracking has mis-served me, serving me only death or an evac. After the evac i just run out again or I can waste 15 minutes of my life and my play-time for it to come back up, F- that.

Tracking is buggy soemtimes. I always re-cast tracking when I do something like zone or cast a totem. You really have to have it a while before you really understand all aspects of it. Use of tracking in ROK is less important as compared to other expansions I guarantee you that.

Tracking gone would be a big hit to pvp in general. People would be hiding for hours/days and avoiding PvP by hiding in rocks etc. that would suck.

Tracking can be used by everyone if they group with a scout. It really isn't that hard and I find most people grp in Rok anyway. I don't complain about lack of heals or free 45% run speed from a SoW... I find a healer or a warden for these things.

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Old 12-04-2007, 09:56 AM   #210
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 OK, let's stop all the BSing on here; You say Track leads to more PVP. I ask for who? You're running around using track to find the easiest target for you to take advantage of; the easiest kill, and to avoid those characters on your track who you know you cannot beat in a fair fight. How's that make for more PVP? No answer, cause it doesn't. More PVP is NOT your ability to run around ganking all the solos that you find on track, and hide when another group comes to fight you.

 FACT: Track does NOT lead to more PVP; It's only there for scouts to find the easy targets for themselves, or their group. That is NOT more PVP, that is just easymode ganking, period! Get over yourselves and stop the lies.

There is nothing about any one class to make MORE pvp.  And having the advantage to " pick and choose " is NOT doing anything to help PVP. As some have already stated; they use it to avoid PVP. So explain how this one ability makes more PVP when it's use for exactly the opposite?

Just stop making these stupid kinds of claims.

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