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Old 06-08-2012, 07:27 PM   #1
Vinyard
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Constructive posting please. Let's not get this locked by senseless bickoring. 

SoE, I feel that the latest fiasco with stealth removing membership from the marketplace was a terrible thing to do. 

What happened to communication with your players? It seems like the only point of these forums is to just check to see the latest SC items added to the marketplace (even tho Facebook seems to get the news first).

Why has communication gone down so low? This game is 8 years old, and you have tons of dedicated players, enjoying it. But, players can only take so much deception. It feels wrong, that this happened without even a notice. We had to first learn of it from the EQ1 forums, and they weren't even told about it either. They just discovered it as well.

"Pay and Play on your Own Terms".

This is a motto of the "Free to play. Your Way" philosophy. It was nice having the option to purchase SC via in-game plat. It was my own way, and I would buy a card when I had the money...aka my own terms. If anything, you were making MORE money,  because people would buy lots of SC cards to sell, especially around the double/triple SC days. It was a nice incentive to have, and truly, it got people grouping more...even if it was just to make money.

I understand that E3 is going on, and that you guys were probably all gung-ho about SOEmote, or Planetside 2....we didn't even get any hotfixes this week. But sure enough, we got our SC marketplace update....and you had the time to remove the membership from the market.

What happened, guys? What caused this lack of communication? Yes we see devs posting, but it's mostly on art issues, or a broken quest. That's more of a one-way communication thing. 

I don't want to say I speak for everyone, but I feel like a strong percentage of your players would love to have some open discussions on the direction of the game, or some changes that you plan on introducing. Get our opinion on it. See how we feel about it. Yes the forums may be a small vocal minority, so introduce it in an in-game poll then. Forget polling about crafting, or power-items appearing on the marketplace. Poll us on important things. Things that will affect our gameplay.

It's time to get back in touch, please...for the sake of the game. 

Once again, let's keep this thread constructive, and not have it locked. If you want to bicker, start your own thread.

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Old 06-08-2012, 07:52 PM   #2
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(( SOE are not a charity, they are a business.

Every single account that the owner wants to have the privileges of Gold Subscription for, is going to need someone* to pay the required amount of real world hard cash for it, on a monthly basis (recurrent or adhoc, credit card or game card, or whatever other methods they choose to set up).

The previous situation when people have been getting excessive discounts was "unintended". Oh, yes, they did it, but they have now realized what a dumb idea it was, and have corrected it. Just be happy you had that gravy train for so long, and accept it was never going to last.

For the moment, it remains possible to do pay 'indirectly', by using unsupported transactions plat-for-gamecards, where someone else is the one outlaying real world money, but really, who knows if SOE may also close that door at some time in the future. That is up to them, but don't act all shocked if it happens. It might.

So don't be niave. You will not win this one. The change was always going to happen. And if you are honest, you KNOW this.

Addendum#1:

Smed's post here, made at the same time I was writing my post here, seems to give at least a partial answer on this issue. Who knows from this if it means it will be re-reversed, or semi-re-reversed, in the future. Form your own opinions:

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=518979

Addendum#2:

Wow, Smed's second post on that same thread is a surprise. Seems you will get a "last chance" to spend SC in this way after all. Colour me surprised, but it's everything you asked for!

======

That issue aside, the issue of SOE's communications with the playerbase is a very valid one.

Communications have been really really bad in the last six months especially. We, the playerbase, have almost no idea what SOE are doing with the game, and all we seem to get are company-speak mission statements and such, not real information ))

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Old 06-08-2012, 07:54 PM   #3
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

(( SOE are not a charity, they are a business.

Every single account that the owner wants to have the privileges of Gold Subscription for, is going to need someone* to pay the required amount of real world hard cash for it, on a monthly basis (recurrent or adhoc, credit card or game card, or whatever other methods they choose to set up).

The previous situation when people have been getting excessive discounts was "unintended". Oh, yes, they did it, but they have now realized what a dumb idea it was, and have corrected it. Just be happy you had that gravy train for so long, and accept it was never going to last.

For the moment, it remains possible to do pay 'indirectly', by using unsupported transactions plat-for-gamecards, where someone else is the one outlaying real world money, but really, who knows if SOE may also close that door at some time in the future. That is up to them, but don't act all shocked if it happens. It might.

So don't be niave. You will not win this one. The change was always going to happen. And if you are honest, you KNOW this.

======

That issue aside, the issue of SOE's communications with the playerbase is a very valid one.

Communications have been really really bad in the last six months especially. We, the playerbase, have almost no idea what SOE are doing with the game, and all we seem to get are company-speak mission statements and such, not real information ))

I understand that SoE is a business, and has been since the start. I just used the card thing as a citation for the communication, which is the main point of this thread SMILEY

You raise a very good point too. We really have no idea what's going to change next. They seem to make large changes overnight, and they come out of nowhere.

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Old 06-08-2012, 08:35 PM   #4
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Constructive posting please. Let's not get this locked by senseless bickoring. 

SoE, I feel that the latest fiasco with stealth removing membership from the marketplace was a terrible thing to do. 

What happened to communication with your players? It seems like the only point of these forums is to just check to see the latest SC items added to the marketplace (even tho Facebook seems to get the news first).

Why has communication gone down so low? This game is 8 years old, and you have tons of dedicated players, enjoying it. But, players can only take so much deception. It feels wrong, that this happened without even a notice. We had to first learn of it from the EQ1 forums, and they weren't even told about it either. They just discovered it as well.

"Pay and Play on your Own Terms".

This is a motto of the "Free to play. Your Way" philosophy. It was nice having the option to purchase SC via in-game plat. It was my own way, and I would buy a card when I had the money...aka my own terms. If anything, you were making MORE money,  because people would buy lots of SC cards to sell, especially around the double/triple SC days. It was a nice incentive to have, and truly, it got people grouping more...even if it was just to make money.

I understand that E3 is going on, and that you guys were probably all gung-ho about SOEmote, or Planetside 2....we didn't even get any hotfixes this week. But sure enough, we got our SC marketplace update....and you had the time to remove the membership from the market.

What happened, guys? What caused this lack of communication? Yes we see devs posting, but it's mostly on art issues, or a broken quest. That's more of a one-way communication thing. 

I don't want to say I speak for everyone, but I feel like a strong percentage of your players would love to have some open discussions on the direction of the game, or some changes that you plan on introducing. Get our opinion on it. See how we feel about it. Yes the forums may be a small vocal minority, so introduce it in an in-game poll then. Forget polling about crafting, or power-items appearing on the marketplace. Poll us on important things. Things that will affect our gameplay.

It's time to get back in touch, please...for the sake of the game. 

Once again, let's keep this thread constructive, and not have it locked. If you want to bicker, start your own thread.

Hmmmm I seem to recall that buying plat was against the agreement you signed. It seems to me that would also include selling plat. Maybe I'm not remembering it correctly but I thought that was a big bruhaha years ago and was not aware that it had been changed.

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Old 06-08-2012, 08:38 PM   #5
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

You raise a very good point too. We really have no idea what's going to change next. They seem to make large changes overnight, and they come out of nowhere.

They are not the most communicative group in the world, but they really aren't behaving any differently than most large businesses do in making decisions seemingly out of nowhere. Few outside the powers that be ever know what's going on in the corporate offices of large corporations until it gets implemented. That's not unusual.

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Old 06-09-2012, 02:25 PM   #6
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Even if you, 10 or 100 more have him on ignore doesn't invalidate his point any. This EQ2 team has no respect for the people that play the game. If they did they would take them into consideration. Yes it is there game and they can do with it what they think is best. Informing the people that pay the bills is just a respectful thing to do and not to do it shows you have no regard for them. Just like knowing you are going to take out being able to pay SC for gold access, run a sell on SC with out telling people knowing that is what they will be buying SC for. That is deceptive and you don't deceive people you respect. Personally I don't fault them for taking it out, they was losing money with it. Doing it the way they did it was wrong and the way they did it is the way they do everything just about. Doing things with out communication with the populous of EQ2 is what this thread is about though not the SC rip-off. You can't be in-touch with your player base if you have no communication with them.

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Old 06-09-2012, 03:56 PM   #7
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SOE has the worst F2P model in the market. Only thing you can do is stop paying until they change or the servers shut down. Personally I do not care which route they go. 

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Old 06-09-2012, 07:49 PM   #8
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You know, after all the years playing Everquest/Everquest2/Vanguard I know its not gonna change, I know alot of people on these forums scream why but fail to realize how deliberate these things that they doactually are. Not responding to what they may consider Invasive questions, not actually making a change even though hundreds or even more are posting about it, or posting a change that no one asked for all in the fashion of looking productive ( I dont know to whom though) . Sony does this to all of its games when they own them, and makes similar poor decisions as a company ( you should look at how many people they have to lay off currently).

I almost feel at times the good points of Everquest 2 were a fluke, I know most of the good parts of everquest 1 and vanguard arent because of sony online entertainment thats for sure. Sony is just guilty of running a business and optimizing profits, and we are guilty of buying into it.

When it comes to designing something that everyone can enjoy, or developing TIMELESS content its obviously not something that sony does(though it is something that they utilize when it is designed for them). It's gotten so crazy that sony literally has conditioned its fans into being enthused about something because they are doing something other than nothing. How many times have they waved big changes or big things in our faces, dungeon finder ( that is broken) or dungeon maker ( I have always believed dungeon maker exists because they thought since they couldnt really fix the game they made, they could possibly make a game within a game and fix that, either way the logic is ridiculous) updated graphics.

 SOE has said alot of things, and probably comes through with what they say about 50% of the time. Yet the same people complain as if its some sort of magical first time occurance. If you are fristrated and it has been this long, maybe you need to give up, or just realize despite Everquest 2 and its shortcomings, you are here to stay.

Either way, i can assure you that even though SOE likes to say sorry, they arent. They feel no guilt, the only guilt that they will feel, is when the majority actually do quit and they cant fund it anymore or it doesnt fund itself. So lets stop talking, because thats what SOE does, they talk, make claims and false promises. Lets keep it real for once, on both ends.

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Old 06-09-2012, 08:38 PM   #9
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I work for a software company in California.  Trust me, this is a California work ethics thing; it's prolific (they are very productive in not communicating...very inventive in ways of dodging it, too, even to their own employees) here.  It will not change.

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Old 06-09-2012, 08:58 PM   #10
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I have always got the impression the developers are in touch with the playerbase. Its the suits that are clueless.

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Old 06-09-2012, 09:26 PM   #11
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

(( SOE are not a charity, they are a business.

Every single account that the owner wants to have the privileges of Gold Subscription for, is going to need someone* to pay the required amount of real world hard cash for it, on a monthly basis (recurrent or adhoc, credit card or game card, or whatever other methods they choose to set up).

The previous situation when people have been getting excessive discounts was "unintended". Oh, yes, they did it, but they have now realized what a dumb idea it was, and have corrected it. Just be happy you had that gravy train for so long, and accept it was never going to last.

For the moment, it remains possible to do pay 'indirectly', by using unsupported transactions plat-for-gamecards, where someone else is the one outlaying real world money, but really, who knows if SOE may also close that door at some time in the future. That is up to them, but don't act all shocked if it happens. It might.

So don't be niave. You will not win this one. The change was always going to happen. And if you are honest, you KNOW this.

Addendum#1:

Smed's post here, made at the same time I was writing my post here, seems to give at least a partial answer on this issue. Who knows from this if it means it will be re-reversed, or semi-re-reversed, in the future. Form your own opinions:

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=518979

Addendum#2:

Wow, Smed's second post on that same thread is a surprise. Seems you will get a "last chance" to spend SC in this way after all. Colour me surprised, but it's everything you asked for!

======

That issue aside, the issue of SOE's communications with the playerbase is a very valid one.

Communications have been really really bad in the last six months especially. We, the playerbase, have almost no idea what SOE are doing with the game, and all we seem to get are company-speak mission statements and such, not real information ))

The fact that they did it for so long seemingly without a clue only shows off how completely out of touch they are with their playerbase.

My tinfoil hat tells me that they absolutely meant for folks to buy subs with their SC, then opt to turn it off later down the road. Why? Because they make their money when the cards are purchased and not when the SC is redeemed or spent. They could care less what we buy with it or when we buy it. Get us hooked, give us some nice stuff, then yank it out while we're hooked. Its kind of like how cocaine dealers work.

If they had REALLY wanted to stop it, they would have months and months and months and months ago. Not just this past week. Which means A) they really didn't care or B) they really didn't notice. If it honestly is B, then shame on them. It means they have less of a clue than they think they do.

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Old 06-10-2012, 01:14 AM   #12
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

"Pay and Play on your Own Terms".

This is a motto of the "Free to play. Your Way" philosophy. It was nice having the option to purchase SC via in-game plat. It was my own way, and I would buy a card when I had the money...aka my own terms. If anything, you were making MORE money,  because people would buy lots of SC cards to sell, especially around the double/triple SC days. It was a nice incentive to have, and truly, it got people grouping more...even if it was just to make money.

Lets see, "get in touch with your playerbase" somehow gets translated into allowing SC for plat.  Oh and the complaint about "lack of communication" (TM) which seems to have been an ongoing favorite for years and not just this game or SoE.

Lets see.  I have a subscription, I log on almost every day.  Hmmm I think I"m a member of the playerbase. 

 PLEASE DON'T SPEAK FOR ME!!!

If you want to say YOU have a problem with this that's your right.  But I don't think you speak for the playerbase as a whole.  You certainly don't speak for me.

This particular member of the player base has no problem at all with getting rid of SC for plat.  I don't use it, I think it's sketchy at best, crooked at worst, and I think it promotes far too much plat farming.

About "Play your way" -- I always interpreted that to mean you could solo, group or raid; your choice.  I never interpreted it to mean SC for plat.

In any event, they did say they were putting it back for awhile.   They communicated that.  Actually, the other thread on this subject (was right below this one a few minutes ago) had quite a few red name posts.

As for lack of communication, I for one would VASTLY prefer the devs be spending their time working on the game and NOT spending it on these forums.  If they want to take an OCCASIONAL break from their real work and post here that's fine, but I don't think they should spend too much time doing that.  They have more important things to do then hold people's hands while they whine.  If the devs spend all their time here there will be great communication, but it will mainly be about what they might have been able to do if they'd been working on the game instead.

They can announce something when they can.  I don't really care all that much since it doesn't impact me until it hits Test at least and probably Live.  Announcing what's coming is fine and all, but I'm not going to stress over it.  As long as they're working their tails off on the game

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Old 06-10-2012, 02:13 AM   #13
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Gilasil wrote:

As for lack of communication, I for one would VASTLY prefer the devs be spending their time working on the game and NOT spending it on these forums.  If they want to take an OCCASIONAL break from their real work and post here that's fine, but I don't think they should spend too much time doing that.  They have more important things to do then hold people's hands while they whine.  If the devs spend all their time here there will be great communication, but it will mainly be about what they might have been able to do if they'd been working on the game instead.

They can announce something when they can.  I don't really care all that much since it doesn't impact me until it hits Test at least and probably Live.  Announcing what's coming is fine and all, but I'm not going to stress over it.  As long as they're working their tails off on the game

Occasional? They work at a computer. It's not rocket science to log into here and acknowledge issues on a daily basis, I can think of tons of people with more complicated jobs that respond and acknowledge issues quicker than the developers in this game. Acknowledgement for crying out loud.

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Old 06-10-2012, 08:14 AM   #14
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Guy De Alsace wrote:

I have always got the impression the developers are in touch with the playerbase. Its the suits that are clueless.

Developers are apprehensive to post as they will be "on their own" without any backup or support. Developers, Designers, and Community should be working together to shape a message and communications with players.

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Old 06-10-2012, 09:54 AM   #15
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feldon30 wrote:

Developers are apprehensive to post as they will be "on their own" without any backup or support.

Which is very sad to me. And if the red names, any department, don't stick by the red names, and the players just continue to flame and give them no support when they DO try to rectify the situation - pointing at Smed here, who surprised and impressed me this week - I wouldn't post here much either. On the other hand, not posting gives players open season to make more snap judgements about a problem like the SC recurring subs (me one of them, at first) and makes them seem almost aloof and uncaring. Catch 22.

The definition of "getting in touch with the playerbase" is also tricky to pin down. What do we want to see? More posting on forums, or by certain people? Doing more community wide activities, like the dev meet-and-greets in-game? A more candid podcast, bluntly addressing some of these issues? Dropping a dev into someplace like Homeshow now and again? Those are my suggestions, but my opinion is not really popular here. I want Sony to succeed but cannot be called a blind fan of theirs. We (I say "we" to illustrate that we really should be united, SOE and players, instead of almost divided as I see it) have problems that aren't so easy to fix.

As always, thank you to Feldon for bringing up this point.

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Old 06-10-2012, 12:57 PM   #16
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Holly is busy wandering around Antonica, sorry guys.

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Old 06-10-2012, 01:31 PM   #17
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feldon30 wrote:

Guy De Alsace wrote:

I have always got the impression the developers are in touch with the playerbase. Its the suits that are clueless.

Developers are apprehensive to post as they will be "on their own" without any backup or support. Developers, Designers, and Community should be working together to shape a message and communications with players.

This is an important observation here.  If you don't have strong leaders in charge that are knowledgeable both about the product AND about how to lead, then your company will lack direction and fortitude to get the job done.

Unfortunately, leadership is from the very top down.  Any one in the chain of command on the way down to the people directly over this game can totally destroy everything below them in the hierarchy.

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Old 06-10-2012, 02:22 PM   #18
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Gilasil wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

"Pay and Play on your Own Terms".

This is a motto of the "Free to play. Your Way" philosophy. It was nice having the option to purchase SC via in-game plat. It was my own way, and I would buy a card when I had the money...aka my own terms. If anything, you were making MORE money,  because people would buy lots of SC cards to sell, especially around the double/triple SC days. It was a nice incentive to have, and truly, it got people grouping more...even if it was just to make money.

Lets see, "get in touch with your playerbase" somehow gets translated into allowing SC for plat.  Oh and the complaint about "lack of communication" (TM) which seems to have been an ongoing favorite for years and not just this game or SoE.

Lets see.  I have a subscription, I log on almost every day.  Hmmm I think I"m a member of the playerbase. 

 PLEASE DON'T SPEAK FOR ME!!!

If you want to say YOU have a problem with this that's your right.  But I don't think you speak for the playerbase as a whole.  You certainly don't speak for me.

This particular member of the player base has no problem at all with getting rid of SC for plat.  I don't use it, I think it's sketchy at best, crooked at worst, and I think it promotes far too much plat farming.

About "Play your way" -- I always interpreted that to mean you could solo, group or raid; your choice.  I never interpreted it to mean SC for plat.

In any event, they did say they were putting it back for awhile.   They communicated that.  Actually, the other thread on this subject (was right below this one a few minutes ago) had quite a few red name posts.

As for lack of communication, I for one would VASTLY prefer the devs be spending their time working on the game and NOT spending it on these forums.  If they want to take an OCCASIONAL break from their real work and post here that's fine, but I don't think they should spend too much time doing that.  They have more important things to do then hold people's hands while they whine.  If the devs spend all their time here there will be great communication, but it will mainly be about what they might have been able to do if they'd been working on the game instead.

They can announce something when they can.  I don't really care all that much since it doesn't impact me until it hits Test at least and probably Live.  Announcing what's coming is fine and all, but I'm not going to stress over it.  As long as they're working their tails off on the game

THis ^ Word for word I AGREE!

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Old 06-10-2012, 03:27 PM   #19
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Gilasil wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

"Pay and Play on your Own Terms".

This is a motto of the "Free to play. Your Way" philosophy. It was nice having the option to purchase SC via in-game plat. It was my own way, and I would buy a card when I had the money...aka my own terms. If anything, you were making MORE money,  because people would buy lots of SC cards to sell, especially around the double/triple SC days. It was a nice incentive to have, and truly, it got people grouping more...even if it was just to make money.

Lets see, "get in touch with your playerbase" somehow gets translated into allowing SC for plat.  Oh and the complaint about "lack of communication" (TM) which seems to have been an ongoing favorite for years and not just this game or SoE.

Lets see.  I have a subscription, I log on almost every day.  Hmmm I think I"m a member of the playerbase. 

 PLEASE DON'T SPEAK FOR ME!!!

If you want to say YOU have a problem with this that's your right.  But I don't think you speak for the playerbase as a whole.  You certainly don't speak for me.

This particular member of the player base has no problem at all with getting rid of SC for plat.  I don't use it, I think it's sketchy at best, crooked at worst, and I think it promotes far too much plat farming.

About "Play your way" -- I always interpreted that to mean you could solo, group or raid; your choice.  I never interpreted it to mean SC for plat.

In any event, they did say they were putting it back for awhile.   They communicated that.  Actually, the other thread on this subject (was right below this one a few minutes ago) had quite a few red name posts.

As for lack of communication, I for one would VASTLY prefer the devs be spending their time working on the game and NOT spending it on these forums.  If they want to take an OCCASIONAL break from their real work and post here that's fine, but I don't think they should spend too much time doing that.  They have more important things to do then hold people's hands while they whine.  If the devs spend all their time here there will be great communication, but it will mainly be about what they might have been able to do if they'd been working on the game instead.

They can announce something when they can.  I don't really care all that much since it doesn't impact me until it hits Test at least and probably Live.  Announcing what's coming is fine and all, but I'm not going to stress over it.  As long as they're working their tails off on the game

The fact is, they aren't "spending their time working on the game" not in any meaningful capacity at least. There are TONS of bugs, very detailed on these forums, that have been there since skyshrine released (that affect gameplay for a large number of people) that have not been addressed. I have no problem with the devs not replying to the posts and instead replying with patch notes but it just doesn't happen. If they are soooo busy that they can't skim forum topics for 10 min then they need to hire someone to do it for them so they can actually fix issues that are bad enough to make people quit. Furthermore ttobey and covik post all the time and it reflects in the things that show up in the patch notes, there are no "historical" animation or art issues because they pay attention to the playerbase and work with players experiencing the issues to fix it.

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Old 06-10-2012, 09:19 PM   #20
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It's funny that some think posting a bit on forums is going to take a huge amount of time and effort. It's easy - once you have some clear direction about what's OK to speak publically about and what's not ready for public discussion yet. Clearly those discussions aren't even happening - so nothing is being discussed. 

Honesty goes a long way.

EQNext's success will rely on many of the people playing EQ2. Especially since SOE seems to have an aversion to direct marketing. At some point their actions here have direct consequences on the future of EQNext. 

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Old 06-11-2012, 01:15 AM   #21
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I really can't blame the devs for avoiding contact the the EQ2 playerbase, especially on these forums. The culture here is so toxic and negative, they're basically wading into a shark tank with bacon strapped to their legs. They can't talk about most of their future projects without the go-ahead from marketing or legal, and they have to be extremely careful what they say about anything because people will treat it either as gospel or intentional deception.

If you've been around since launch, you know what I mean. There is literally nothing the devs can do (or NOT do) that some vocal group of players won't verbally abuse them for. If they post too much, they're pandering and wasting time. If they post too little, they're stonewalling and ignoring the playerbase. If they implement ANY changes, they're either ruining something, avoiding the important issue(s), or catering to some marginal portion of the playerbase. EQ2 forumites will complain bitterly about ANYTHING, and nothing the devs try to do will compensate for years of this perceived abuse.

Honestly, SOE has made plenty of mistakes over the years, but they are people and that comes with the territory. There are actual problems with EQ2, it is far from perfect, but if you read the hyperbole on these forums you'd think that most of the people who play it are in some kind of psychology experiment to measure pain thresholds. SOE is partly to blame, but there is also plenty of fault with the forum posters as well, who have allowed this culture to cement itself. Communication is two-way, and when you have to wade through streams of non-constructive complaining, baseless rumor-mongering, and blatant insults coming your way, it's natural to start tuning it out.

If you really, honestly want the devs to communicate more, maybe try treating them with respect and dignity, so they may actually want to listen to you. You can talk about the devs not respecting the players, but respect has to start somewhere, and I see none around these forums.

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Old 06-11-2012, 03:18 AM   #22
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So when Scott was in charge and the devs communicated not just here, but elsewhere, they got attacked? Bad communication is the root of everything. A 20 page thread completely died after 1 reasonable post. People attack the devs because what they say doesn't get followed through on (Drunder itemization got a post saying it was going to get fixed how long ago?). Did Domino ever get attacked?
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Old 06-11-2012, 04:23 AM   #23
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* Time spent posting on the forums to update players on an issue is time taken away from development.* No matter what the devs do, there will be an onslaught of negativity.I can post countless examples that disprove these two fallacies.

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Old 06-11-2012, 11:24 AM   #24
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Lizabethan wrote:

feldon30 wrote:

Developers are apprehensive to post as they will be "on their own" without any backup or support.

Which is very sad to me. And if the red names, any department, don't stick by the red names, and the players just continue to flame and give them no support when they DO try to rectify the situation - pointing at Smed here, who surprised and impressed me this week - I wouldn't post here much either. On the other hand, not posting gives players open season to make more snap judgements about a problem like the SC recurring subs (me one of them, at first) and makes them seem almost aloof and uncaring. Catch 22.

The definition of "getting in touch with the playerbase" is also tricky to pin down. What do we want to see? More posting on forums, or by certain people? Doing more community wide activities, like the dev meet-and-greets in-game? A more candid podcast, bluntly addressing some of these issues? Dropping a dev into someplace like Homeshow now and again? Those are my suggestions, but my opinion is not really popular here. I want Sony to succeed but cannot be called a blind fan of theirs. We (I say "we" to illustrate that we really should be united, SOE and players, instead of almost divided as I see it) have problems that aren't so easy to fix.

As always, thank you to Feldon for bringing up this point.

You're pretty new here, so:

The last time Smed posted on these boards was because the game was crashing and burning and we, the players, called. him. out. and demanded he give us 5 minutes of his attention. It was just enough to keep EQ2 from going into a tailspin and all of us playing this game. Otherwise, we were all out the door.

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Old 06-11-2012, 12:07 PM   #25
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Heh, not really new here. Had a different account for posting on forums, switched to this one quite recently. Even if I were as new as this account is, I still stand by what I've said.

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Old 06-11-2012, 01:22 PM   #26
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The problem is that the game is in maintenace mode, anyone can seen that and it's been that way for the past 12/18 months. There is no way SOE are going to put more man hours int this game, it's dying a slow death.

The game has been on a downward path for a few years, but when SJ took over the slide really became apparent. The endless introduction of station cash items, lack of content, wasted dev time on rubbish like dungeon maker and a disgraceful money grab with the 'expansion' pack only confirmed this.

I dare say that SOE made a fair bit of cash with the marketplace items during this time but it wouldn't surprise me at all if subscription numbers have decreased drastically during this time leading to a very unhappy and awfully quiet and empty world.

It's sad to see but this game is dead. I have been playing since launch and I have never seen such quiet servers and a general aymosphere of indifference from the players. Updates used to be fun and exciting but that has gone now and the game is dying.

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Old 06-11-2012, 03:24 PM   #27
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNvjh2zMM9w

Smokejumper says voice chat killed roleplaying.

As far as I know...no one uses VC for roleplaying. It's all been text since day 1, and it continues to be text.

See, that's out of touch.

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Old 06-11-2012, 05:16 PM   #28
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNvjh2zMM9w

Smokejumper says voice chat killed roleplaying.

As far as I know...no one uses VC for roleplaying. It's all been text since day 1, and it continues to be text.

See, that's out of touch.

Roleplaying has been dead since before Voice Chat was even implemented in EQ2, and Vent / TS / Mumble have been around for a long, long time. SJ is just trying to sell a product, similarly to this http://youtu.be/00gAbgBu8R4. That technology wasn't new at all when they put that video up, but they're trying to sell themselves and pretend like they're doing something cool when in reality they really aren't.

So I wouldn't really say that's out of touch so much as just trying to make people who don't play EQ2 think that they're putting something cool and new into the game to revive something that died a long time ago.

If SoE really wants to revive Roleplaying the best thing they can do is create a new RP server and offer free xfers to it from CB and AB, then merge AB and CB together.

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Old 06-11-2012, 09:53 PM   #29
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MMOs have never really been a great medium for roleplaying, anyway. Roleplaying is a very social activity, it involves many levels of communication, both verbal and non-verbal. It requires a group of people who are at least somewhat comfortable with one another so that they can be relaxed enough to share their character. Creating a character is very personal, and it can be difficult to open up like that around strangers, especially when you're worried about them judging you by your choices. Roleplaying also requires a lot of creative freedom to improvise, something that computer games just aren't capable of providing.

As both a lifelong pen-and-paper roleplayer and a professional stage actor, it's my opinion that promoting roleplaying in a game like EQ2 really isn't ever going to be terribly successful. I'd much rather see them designing to the game's strengths, which would entail generating engaging content with some level of traction to keep players occupied, while maintaining strong social networking such as guilds and raid alliances. Focus on what the game is already good at, rather than trying to force a style of play that isn't suited for the medium via gimmicks.

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Old 06-11-2012, 10:10 PM   #30
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feldon30 wrote:

* Time spent posting on the forums to update players on an issue is time taken away from development.* No matter what the devs do, there will be an onslaught of negativity.I can post countless examples that disprove these two fallacies.

Neither of those assertions are fallacies, if anything they would merely be premises from which to form an argument. The first statement I agree is incorrect (the devs have plenty of time off-the-clock for posting in the forums) whereas the second is merely an observation I have found to be mostly accurate having been a part of this community since its inception. I find it quite ironic that the only contribution this post makes to the discussion is to negate other posters' comments. In any case, my point still stands: you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

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