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Old 07-20-2007, 03:15 PM   #1
Nakash

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From test Server: Reaver: Reduced health returned from 2.5% to 2%. Nerfing Reaver by 20% Hope they reduce the health lost per tic also.
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:25 PM   #2
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Do we have an idea as to what prompted the change?  Was it just borderline overpowered that 0.5% will make it all better?  Was some other class whining?  I'm not even mad...just sort of confused.  What was the problem with it before/what was the catalyst behind the change and why does an 0.5% reduction make it all better?
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:29 PM   #3
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Well personally I think it was only usefull for soloing, and it is simply a balancing change.  I was running reaver when I soloed the bank vault in Kal for the SoD statue update.  I was not easy but I think reaver is why I managed to do it when I know of 3 groups that could not do that small part.  Just a small balance really.  Maybe it was a bit over powered.

The other changes to Decay line far more than make up for it, but then again I am only speaking from a raiders point of view.

 Currently I'm currently str and sta lines all the way down, and hate and decay all the way down.

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Old 07-20-2007, 04:49 PM   #4
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Shadowknight Enhance: Cleave Flesh: Increased wisdom reduction amount from 10% to 12% per rank. At Adept 3 will Take 141 wis from target ...... Enhance: Despoiling Mists: Improved reuse speed bonus from 3 to 6 seconds per rank. Reduces Despoil to 42secs overall ..... Alternate: Siphon Armament: Increased mitigation gained by 33% more than before. Can now be cast on a raid ally. So We Get 466Mit Siphoning Now and Freedom to cast on any target in raid ... (Why not change Pledge ? ) Pools of Blood: Increased bleed pool amount by 60% more than before. now 1,949  .... Does this even make a difference ? lol Reaver: Reduced health returned from 2.5% to 2%. all for this ;/ The biggest thing i see the increase mit from armament ... But thats about it.. Realy the in raid targeting I probably would care less for. Pools of blood is still not something to look to... Realy was hoeping they would change it all together not nerf stuff just to increase it for nobody to use still.
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Old 07-20-2007, 05:21 PM   #5
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NM Spells Offering of Armament can be cast on a raid ally.
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Old 07-20-2007, 05:47 PM   #6
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I've noticed on live servers that if you examine Reaver from your skill list or hotbar it shows it being 2.5%, but if you examine Reaver from your current spell effects list it only shows it being 2.0%.

If they are going to reduce the health return, then they need to remove the health cost.

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Old 07-20-2007, 06:09 PM   #7
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People whining in PvP servers about Reaver being overpowered because they cant kill a SK is probably what got us the nerf.

Another nerf for the SK's sigh.....

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Old 07-20-2007, 06:18 PM   #8
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[email protected] wrote:

The other changes to Decay line far more than make up for it, but then again I am only speaking from a raiders point of view.

 Currently I'm currently str and sta lines all the way down, and hate and decay all the way down.

I'm specc'd with the syphon armament as well, so I really like that change....Pools of Blood looks a bit more interesting as well now, but I don't think I'll be able to rearrange enough points for it and still be happy with my other choices.

Too bad about the reaver change, hopefully it won't hurt too bad for those using it.

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Old 07-20-2007, 07:57 PM   #9
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Addex wrote:

People whining in PvP servers about Reaver being overpowered because they cant kill a SK is probably what got us the nerf.

Another nerf for the SK's sigh.....

The the should make it a dawm PVP change....
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:07 PM   #10
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Bah!, sometimes you guys surprise me.

 The changes are being done not because they are overpowered as such in the game envirioment, but because they are overpowered between the other AA lines of the same class. They are trying to make people be more random with their choices, more spread out.

 They even said as much, so no real reason to speculate behind their reasoning SMILEY

 I do think reaver will hurt a little, I depend on that middle tree alot.

What do people here think, is the right tree very viable for raids, or is it just fluff stuff noone notices ?

/Shadarr

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Old 07-21-2007, 12:11 AM   #11
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I don't know how typical my playstyle is, but I really loathe the changes. Reaver changes will hurt my char personally by exactly 20% in "soloing" ability.  I don't run out of power when "soloing", as I dual box an Illusionist - I run out of health. If you only ever group and raid as the MT then I think Pools of Blood got a big enough boost compared to Reaver, that it is now a better bet.  Hate line with all the hate gain/transfer nerfs still looks more mandatory than either though. If you are the only potential crusader in the raid, then congratulations, there is now a minor reason to take you - bit of extra mitigation for the warrior (or paladin now? - amends was untouched) tanking it.
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Old 07-21-2007, 01:15 AM   #12
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Addex wrote:

People whining in PvP servers about Reaver being overpowered because they cant kill a SK is probably what got us the nerf.

Another nerf for the SK's sigh.....

Reaver was already 2.0% for PvP fights.
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Old 07-21-2007, 12:58 PM   #13
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I gotta agree with Dekeon ... with Reaver my health just does not go down. We are soloing machines and it's not even that hard. I'm happy it's not 1% like it used to be. Still, Reaver is pretty much a must-have line which I think they are really trying to avoid. I am extremely happy with the Pools of Blood change and consider that a fair trade for our Reaver nerf. Considering how much spell mitigation 140 Wisdom is on ME, I couldn't give a crap about that debuff. I am happy with the change to the Despoil reuse timer. I think it's finally worth putting points into this. Probably going to drop that siphon STA since it still isn't fixed and self-buffed I'm at almost 600 STA anyway. As for raid-wide mitigation transfers, it's about time they did this. And removing the shared recast timers is another boost for us. Especially for the STR/STA/INT and STR/AGI/INT specs.
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Old 07-23-2007, 02:18 AM   #14
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Right now on Nagafen the health return on reaver is 1.9% SMILEY

EDIT: There has to be some kind of bug. It is displaying as 1.9%, but the acutal heal value is 2.5%. But even on PvP servers the minimum value is supposed to be 2.0%

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Old 07-23-2007, 10:08 AM   #15
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I can almost guarantee it is because of people whining on PVP. I have seen many occasions of complaining about OP (over powered) SKs. I suppose it was either nerf HT or nerf something else that helps the SK. As for the whole nerfing to make the other lines look better thought process. I can see SoE doing that but that is silly reasoning. The SK has a few weak lines they could definitely buff up or change some skills completely to increase the value.

In short; Nerfing one line to make other weak lines look good is like getting drunk to make that really ugly chick look like a supermodel.

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Old 07-23-2007, 10:38 AM   #16
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Everyone thinks that PvP SKs get the blue SKs nerfed.  It dont happen that way, if you look at the spells on PvP they all have a diff rule set for them.  If this was just a pvp nerf they would of dropped our reaver to 1.5pvp and kept it 2.5 blue. 

Simple fact is this you get a Sk in raid gear there is nothing that we cant solo(inreason).  I did the Cloak of Flames almost all solo.  When we can solo 70^^^ heroic and never leave the green some say thats overpowered.

When i PvP if I can dual people there isnt a class that can kill me.  its not reaver that keeps me up its cycling your blessing, tap veins, and drain vaitel.  When you have a ranger pumping arrows in you at ranged gor 1.5k auto attack or swashys keeping you stun locked its not casting that 3sec spell and having the 100pt heal keeping you up its the shiled bash followd by blessing then boot drain deathmarch doomjudgment tap veins.

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Old 07-23-2007, 10:38 AM   #17
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double post

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Old 07-23-2007, 12:32 PM   #18
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[email protected] wrote:

When we can solo 70^^^ heroic and never leave the green some say thats overpowered.

See, I keep hearing about how we can do stuff like this, but I must really suck.  I'm not fully raid geared (time investment issue), but rather a mixture of raid fabled and legendary pieces.  Not too bad, but not tops either.  At 70 I can't even take out a green named in Nest solo, reliably.  I can only assume that I'm doing something wrong, strategically speaking.
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Old 07-23-2007, 12:41 PM   #19
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:
[email protected] wrote:

When we can solo 70^^^ heroic and never leave the green some say thats overpowered.

See, I keep hearing about how we can do stuff like this, but I must really suck.  I'm not fully raid geared (time investment issue), but rather a mixture of raid fabled and legendary pieces.  Not too bad, but not tops either.  At 70 I can't even take out a green named in Nest solo, reliably.  I can only assume that I'm doing something wrong, strategically speaking.
How do you go about your attempts at killing nameds? Green nameds should be easy to you.
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Old 07-23-2007, 01:00 PM   #20
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[email protected] wrote:
[email protected] Bayle wrote:
[email protected] wrote:

When we can solo 70^^^ heroic and never leave the green some say thats overpowered.

See, I keep hearing about how we can do stuff like this, but I must really suck.  I'm not fully raid geared (time investment issue), but rather a mixture of raid fabled and legendary pieces.  Not too bad, but not tops either.  At 70 I can't even take out a green named in Nest solo, reliably.  I can only assume that I'm doing something wrong, strategically speaking.
How do you go about your attempts at killing nameds? Green nameds should be easy to you.
I'm really just going toe-to-toe with them.  I debuff at the begining.  I use smash or venomous slam whenever they are available for the stuns.  I lifetap whenever they refresh (tap veins, drain) and I keep blessing up whenever it wears off.  I'm not sure how much more complex it gets than that.  I throw out the occasional pet skeleton. Like, just the first guy in Nest for example.  The Aggressor.  I blow harm touch and Divine Aura and he still beats me (he's at around 3% usually when I drop..but still, he wins).  Without those, it isn't even that close.
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Old 07-23-2007, 01:35 PM   #21
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As I see it, the nerf was not in response to us being able to solo names.  I think it was due to PvP.  Why not just change it in PvP?  Well, my next hypothesis is that our designers are mentally challenged.  Of course I could be wrong on both accounts.  However, when I see that the Zerker, who can arguably solo better, gets missed by the nerf bat yet again and whats more the necro who can solo like a God actually gets an increase in soloability (see their pet heal), its hard not to come to my conclusion. SoE hates SK's, I hate SoE... yet... I still pay them... which makes me hate them more... you would think that I could hold agro better with all this hate being thrown around!
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Old 07-23-2007, 01:45 PM   #22
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It really depends on the mobs, but we can take out some really tough ones. I know the 70 and even 71^^^ s in POA up top are soloable by me....as are the 69^^^ floating light thingies in Loping as examples...but the Gargoyles on the stairs gave me a beating the other day. Dunno...I only tried once, maybe I had bad luck...or maybe they just have my number. Some of the even conned are doable for sure though, I can attest to it.

I'm very careful with my larger power attacks, I power tap a lot....stun before any long cast. I keep Despoil and sacrilige up, and Syphon Str when I can. I make sure despoil and sacrilige are up and Agony has landed before deathmarchin. If I need to, I use a few potions...Clarity and/or Regen and INT/AGI ones at times....anything that will give me an edge really. If there was a reason to kill one, I might even resort to a Blessing or Miracle...but I wouldn't waste em for nothing. Spell quality levels are all upgraded, and gear level is high.

Even so, there is some I just can't take. But definitely some went down that I didn't think were possible too....and I don't have Reaver. I'm pretty sure with Reaver I could clean house on quite a few that give me probs.

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Old 07-23-2007, 01:47 PM   #23
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:
I'm really just going toe-to-toe with them.  I debuff at the begining.  I use smash or venomous slam whenever they are available for the stuns.  I lifetap whenever they refresh (tap veins, drain) and I keep blessing up whenever it wears off.  I'm not sure how much more complex it gets than that.  I throw out the occasional pet skeleton. Like, just the first guy in Nest for example.  The Aggressor.  I blow harm touch and Divine Aura and he still beats me (he's at around 3% usually when I drop..but still, he wins).  Without those, it isn't even that close.

Hm .. the first one in Nest should really be no problem .. i can burn him down in offensive without HT and don't have to look for mana. If you have already problems with that one .. the second one is much more nasty because he comes with all that adds and has i think 120k hps, while the first has only 80k.

I normally pull the scoend in def-stance .. start with deatchmarch and all AoEs incl pestilence to burn down the adds, and after that i use nearly only blessing, skeleton, mana-sieve and manastone .. always have a look that my mana is on the same percentage with his life.

The third is again a little easier again for me .. but same tactic as for the second.  I never tried the 4th solo because he has again more life, and i always hate to find out where he is, and maybe have to kill all the trash in the rooms SMILEY

Btw.: I only have some pieces of fabled that i could buy on the broker .. so not the best ones , but i have most spells as master at least. I also never used any blessings or potions .. just my spells and thats it SMILEY Before EoF i managed them also with mostly still Cobalt Armor .. after EoF Release i was first owned by the second until i got better gear and some more AAs and masters SMILEY

Btw2: There a also a lot people saying how uber furys are .. my little level 70 fury was also owned by the first named who is cake for my SK SMILEY

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Old 07-23-2007, 03:56 PM   #24
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[email protected] wrote:
As I see it, the nerf was not in response to us being able to solo names.  I think it was due to PvP.  Why not just change it in PvP?  Well, my next hypothesis is that our designers are mentally challenged.  Of course I could be wrong on both accounts.  However, when I see that the Zerker, who can arguably solo better, gets missed by the nerf bat yet again and whats more the necro who can solo like a God actually gets an increase in soloability (see their pet heal), its hard not to come to my conclusion. SoE hates SK's, I hate SoE... yet... I still pay them... which makes me hate them more... you would think that I could hold agro better with all this hate being thrown around!
Quite wrong. they can change the proc rate for pvp only, this is a balancing thing between the trees. they are trying to make reaving less "Must have" and the others more interresting. My sk can prolly outsolo most zerkers, my necro is about on par with my sk on soloing, my sk has the slight edge in soloing solo mobs since I can pull lots of them at a time and go to town while my necro has to pick them off one or two at a time.
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:16 PM   #25
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I have yet to see a zerker solo Mistmore Catacomes or even Kaladim, both of witch i solo and duo in quite a bit.
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:16 PM   #26
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Are you talking about soloing solo mobs Norrsken?  Thats a chimps game.  I'm referring to soloing heroics baring you have good gear.  If yall haven't seen that then your zerkers must be terrible.  Take a look at Zanshen or Vandar on Permafrost, though Vandar is retired both soloed better than I can.  Catacombs and Kaladim are easy too.
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:24 PM   #27
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Iam talking SKs are able to walk into the catacomes and go play with the vampires upstares.  Soloing all of the content upto Mistmore Castle in the SoD quest line.  Walking into Kaladim and playing in the ring events.  All solo!  I feel sony is trying to take the solo out of the game and make it even more group based.  Necros and SK have a rather easy time of soloing we can dps and heal.  Other classes need to give up one or the other to do it well.  If heals go for nuking the blow a lot of power killing stuff.

Do i like the nerf nope but i understand where they are comming from.

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Old 07-23-2007, 04:26 PM   #28
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[email protected] wrote:

Thats a chimps game.

We chimps prefer heroics. SMILEY
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:33 PM   #29
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[email protected] wrote:
...I feel sony is trying to take the solo out of the game and make it even more group based. 
The only trouble I have with this statement is it's within the context of soloing content that is quite specifically heroic.  To me, group content should take a group - I dunno, maybe that's just my funny logic.
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:16 PM   #30
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A Coercer/Assassin on the SK boards SMILEY Naw, I surmise you have an alt heh. And anyway, the con system scales with level too.  Such that White trips are designed for groups but are no challenge for groups.  White trips for solo you have to have some pretty dank gear as an SK and its still hit and miss - the better your gear the easier white trips are.  I betcha more than 50% of the SK's out there can't solo a white trips. Anyway, regardless... why nerf SK's and boost Necro's soloability then? I still stick by my hypothesis that the designers are mentally challenged.
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