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Old 10-25-2015, 11:36 AM   #1
azcn2503

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The five new dungeons are appearing in the Dungeon Finder window (/df), but are not appearing when using the zone-in clicky item in the cities.
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:32 AM   #2
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Went back in to Penumbra: The Master's Chosen, and managed to kill trash and the first two names by using a Paladin mercenary as tank, with a Templar mercenary as healer, and me on my 94 Mystic as 'backup healer', though I was really just watching the mercenaries do everything for me. If I get hit, I die, but the mercenaries can take it. The Templar mercenary had over 400k health.

The names in the zone didn't drop any chests. There didn't seem to be any way to progress through the zone after killing them. I could see that there was an upper level, and there was some underwater mobs too. We killed everything on the first floor and everything underwater. Some of the walls look like they should be doors, but they are not clickable and do not otherwise open for us. I got some discoveries by looting the octoyogg's (primary octoyogg eye, fresh octoyogg sucker). I guess this zone is not ready yet since it is not dropping loot chests, and the monsters are too strong for players to fight against.

We then tried Stygian Threshold [Agnostic], and this was too much even for the super-buffed mercenaries. We did manage to kill one mob called 'a twinkling of the night' but it took us a few attempts. It seemed to start a ring event, some lilac text in chat read 'You have angered the fairies of the dusk!', but could not progress past this point due to the trash dealing too much damage.
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Old 10-26-2015, 08:45 AM   #3
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Found a partner to test the new agnostic dungeons with (thanks Oriongod!) I played as Akkurat (level 94 Berserker) with Oriongod (level 20 Beastlord).

We identified a few issues which we both /bug reported.

  1. Mobs are not scaled correctly, I assume they are doing damage appropriate for a level 100 character. In the first zone we tested (Maldura: Algorithm for Destruction [Agnostic]), the trash destroyed us. I was hit for 236,969 heat damage and killed in one hit. My health was only around 195k. And that brings me to the next point...
  2. My health should be lower. At level 94 outside of the agnostic dungeons, my health is ~195k. Inside agnostics I should be scaled down to ~55k. Interestingly, my groupmate at level 20 had been scaled up correctly and had about 50k health.
  3. It seems that the new zones are not providing players with the 'agnostic playing field' buff. Perhaps this is contributing to the problem, or needs to be looked at in addition?
We only tested Maldura: Algorithm for Destruction [Agnostic] and Kralet Penumbra: The Master's Chosen [Agnostic] and they both had the same problem - trash insta-killing the both of us, and agnostic playing field buff not being applied properly. I think it would be safe to assume this problem affects all zones, but my time testing was cut short and I'll need to revisit this later today or tomorrow evening.

We also tested the existing agnostic dungeons, and it seems that they are working correctly as they do on the live servers.
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Old 10-28-2015, 01:08 AM   #4
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Today I logged in to check what had changed. I noticed that the agnostic dungeons have been added to the zone-in clicky in the cities. Thanks for that!
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Old 10-28-2015, 02:10 AM   #5
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Tried out Stygian Threshold [Agnostic] solo on a level 22.

Health is scaling to about 4x what it does in the older agnostics (checked on Beta and old agnostics scale the health correctly).

Mobs are absolutely lethal, tried a couple of mobs, first killed me with a single shot of 660k damage, next was even worse at 760k. In comparison, the entire first floor of Library of Erudin did a total of around 950k damage during a 5 minute fight.

For some odd reason, health scaling decreases after I die, dropping about 17% for a period of time. May be a normal effect, have not paid much attention in the older dungeons.
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Old 10-28-2015, 03:51 PM   #6
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I'm all for making these zones more difficult than the existing agnostics - if there are strategies in the heroic versions it would be nice to keep them in. In the older zones a lot of strategy was taken out (no power drain on Sharivhar, less adds on the gardener in Vasty Deep, no books on last name in Library, etc). I wouldn't mind if the mobs hit a bit harder than the old agnostics too, but not as hard as they are in the new zones right now!
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Old 11-02-2015, 09:21 PM   #7
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I noticed something today that for some reason I didn't pick up on before.

The names of the zones actually contain the [Agnostic], just as other zones are named [Advanced Solo], [Heroic], etc..

I personally think this is great! Why? It helps differentiate between the 'real' zone and the agnostic version, and if you're obsessed with running agnostics and want to see who's online and currently running the dungeons, typing a quick "/who all 20 94" command and picking out the zones with [Agnostic] is really easy, rather than having to work out the names of the zones and the levels of all the people within them to figure out if they're running the real one or the agnostic one. Would it be possible to change the five existing agnostic dungeons to also have [Agnostic] in their name? If not for the above reason then just so it looks nice Wink Currently there are five dungeons with the [Agnostic] tag, and five dungeons without.
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Old 11-03-2015, 01:10 AM   #8
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Thanks for pointing that out. The other agnostic zones will soon have the [Agnostic] tag.

Also, regarding the spell damage for these being extremely high, that's being fixed. Hopefully by the next beta update if I'm fast enough!
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Old 11-03-2015, 01:23 AM   #9
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Thanks Chrol! You're doing such a great job of keeping on top of all the feedback.
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Old 11-03-2015, 02:01 AM   #10
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Actually their weapon damage was outrageously high. That's been lowered. They were hitting at the same level as their level 100 heroic counterparts. Yikes!
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Old 11-03-2015, 04:33 PM   #11
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I tried another agnostic dungeon today - Kralet Penumbra: Tepid Depths.

One of the first mobs encountered, "an Aberrant entwiner" cast some sort of super-ward on itself called Order of the Discourser which was warding it for 6600000 points of all damage. Needless to say I could not break through it in time before I died.
[IMG]

It highlights that this spell and possibly some others need to be scaled down, probably by a factor of 100 or more. If I find any other spells that are scaled out of proportion for agnostics like this then I'll put another message in this thread.

Update: reviving while in the agnostics dungeon put me in to the Kralet Penumbra: Rise to Power [Heroic] zone. Hmm, strange, I'll see if I can reproduce that.

Update 2: I was able to reproduce that. It seems there is no revive point in the agnostic zone and instead it is using the heroic zone. This is what the revive window looks like when in the agnostic dungeon:
[IMG]

Regarding the ward value on that spell, not sure if it is intended to be that high or not, but worth considering that a full group of players in agnostics generally put out around 100k DPS and this ward would take them over one minute to break through unless it can be dispelled or I am failing a strategy lol.
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Old 11-03-2015, 04:34 PM   #12
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While I'm glad you fixed it, please do tune them a little better. The current agnostics are an absolute snooze-fest. You can solo them easily, and with a tank you can literally pull 1/3rd the zone at a time and just murder it with no regard to anything. Tab, roll face on keyboard. Tab, roll face on keyboard. Tab, roll face on keyboard.

It's so incredibly boring I can't bring myself to do them, and I was SO excited when I hit 20 and they popped up. Really hoping you guys fix em in this expansion.
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Old 11-03-2015, 04:57 PM   #13
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I'm also going to cast my vote for tougher agnostics! We should try to find a balance between being one-shotted by trash and rolling faces on keyboards. Current agnostics can be trivialized with a strong tank.
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Old 11-04-2015, 10:43 AM   #14
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Ok, so I noticed today that all of the zones had [Agnostic] added to them, that's great! I also zoned in to one of the new agnostic zones (Tepid Depths again) and tried to kill a few of the trash mobs solo.

The first thing I noticed upon zoning in was that a quest was offered to me that rewarded infusers, nice!

Anyway, the trash killed me, but not as quickly as before! I'm not sure if the damage is too high, or just right. I should have gone in with a group or popped a healer mercenary. I did notice that my health was a bit on the high side compared to the old agnostics, but not quite as high as when I am outside of the agnostic dungeon. I had about 155k health on my Berserker, whereas outside of agnostics I have around 190k. Sometimes I would receive a I did see that the agnostic playing field buff was being applied correctly and providing all of the benefits it mentions.

This was the sort of incoming damage seen in the Tepid Depths today:

(1446632599)[Wed Nov 04 10:23:19 2015] an Aberrant entwiner hits YOU for 73309 mental damage.
(1446632599)[Wed Nov 04 10:23:19 2015] an Aberrant mind-ripper hits YOU for 65333 mental damage.
(1446632600)[Wed Nov 04 10:23:20 2015] an Aberrant mind-ripper hits YOU for 68809 mental damage.
(1446632601)[Wed Nov 04 10:23:21 2015] an Aberrant mind-ripper's Aberrant Assault hits YOU for 5277 focus damage.
(1446632604)[Wed Nov 04 10:23:24 2015] a depths prowler hits YOU for 65797 disease damage.
(1446632604)[Wed Nov 04 10:23:24 2015] an Aberrant spell-shield hits YOU for 66450 mental damage.

Compared to damage received in Erudin Library:

(1446632825)[Wed Nov 04 10:27:05 2015] a Gruengach enforcer hits YOU for 84 piercing damage.
(1446632825)[Wed Nov 04 10:27:05 2015] an Erudin abecedarian hits YOU for 22 crushing damage.
(1446632824)[Wed Nov 04 10:27:04 2015] Archivist Fahim hits YOU for 895 piercing damage.
(1446632824)[Wed Nov 04 10:27:04 2015] an Erudin abecedarian hits YOU but fails to inflict any damage.
(1446632825)[Wed Nov 04 10:27:05 2015] an Erudin abecedarian hits YOU but fails to inflict any damage.

When I died, I was able to revive in the agnostic version of the Tepid Depths zone instead of the heroic version.

I like that the damage is higher than the current agnostics, but having it 1000x higher is possibly too much! I think I would need a really stacked group with healers who are really on their game, probably two healers minimum. I would enjoy testing this with a full group at some point if anybody is interested?
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Old 11-04-2015, 06:33 PM   #15
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I tried to run the Tepid Depths zone again with a friend. Some of the spell damage is still extraordinarily high, see the following log entries:

(1446657602)[Wed Nov 04 17:20:02 2015] an Aberrant spell-shield's Mental Detonation hits Luftkan for 1635236 mental damage.

(1446658081)[Wed Nov 04 17:28:01 2015] an Aberrant spell-shield's Mental Detonation hits YOU for 2030510 mental damage.

(1446657473)[Wed Nov 04 17:17:53 2015] an Aberrant mind-ripper's Aberrant Assault hits Luftkan for 636399 mental damage.

(1446658079)[Wed Nov 04 17:27:59 2015] an Aberrant mind-ripper's Aberrant Assault hits Luftkan for 780311 mental damage.

Mental Detonation and Aberrant Assault in particular seem to be hitting for extremely high values - enough to kill two extremely well geared players instantly!

However we then tried Stygian Threshold. This agnostic zone was one-shotting all over the place the last time I tried it. This time I would say it is perfect. We went in as 94 Zerk, 94 Mystic with a Templar mercenary, Zerk and Mystic are exceptionally geared, and it provided us with a medium challenge - our health bars actually moved and I was required to heal! It was glorious.

There was a small problem with Stygian Threshold though...

(1446659849)[Wed Nov 04 17:57:29 2015] Luftkan wins the lotto for aITEM 1964432072 -1621148757BigGrinarkened Shroud of Tlat-a-tor/a from the Ornate Chest of a snarling gnashtooth.

A level 100 cloak dropped from the ornate chest of a level 94 agnostic trash mob.
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Old 11-05-2015, 01:46 AM   #16
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Thanks for the feedback azcn2503!
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Old 11-05-2015, 06:54 AM   #17
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I ran it today and the initial hits were normal then they would jump up to all 6k hits. Other mobs damage would jump up to all 22k hits. I killed a few named but the damage would still randomly jump up high.
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Old 11-05-2015, 03:32 PM   #18
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If you could solo it, it's too easy. If one person can do it, 6, will just pubstomp it.
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Old 11-05-2015, 03:45 PM   #19
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It's worth noting that my Zerker is exceptionally overgeared for these zones and I could only take out some trash with very careful pulls while popping all my defensive abilities and using a mercenary for assistance. I still couldn't manage it so I'd say its perfect.

Update: well, I won't know if it's 'perfect' until I go in with a full group. It feels challenging enough for a group of 6, but there haven't been enough people online at the required level range to help with testing.
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Old 11-05-2015, 04:32 PM   #20
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Both Maldura and the Stygian. I was running it on my 94 Agnostic Ranger Cakefrosting
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Old 11-05-2015, 05:34 PM   #21
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This may have just been script on the mobs you were fighting. Do you recall any of their names so I can double check?
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Old 11-05-2015, 05:57 PM   #22
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Had another go at Stygian Threshold [Agnostic] with a very well geared level 22 SK.

Health is still scaling at about 4x the level from the older agnostic zones (somewhere around 75x my normal health).
Before the patch my health was very low when I first entered a dungeon, that has been fixed and I now enter at near full health.

Most of the trash mobs can be soloed fairly easily, health is definitely taking a bigger hit than in the older agnostics, and came close to dying on a few groups of three.
Managed to take out one of the bosses, but never could get past the one that looks like a large tree, even with a merc (Kenny). No problem fighting him solo, but when the swarm appears that kills me (and the merc) in only a few hits.

Seems a bit on the tough side for moderately geared low levels. My mercenary had health of nearly 600k and still didn't last long.

The loot from the boss was at the proper level of 20, and an improvement on the gear from the older agnostics, but small chests were dropping level 100 items.

I was under the impression that agnostic dungeons were suppose to scale to the size of the group, as well as the level, so that would make it very difficult with a full group if it scaled up the difficulty as the group size increased.
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Old 11-05-2015, 06:02 PM   #23
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If the new ones follow the same rules as the old ones, then the difficulty is a constant. The more players you have, the easier (in theory) the zone should be. Agnostics are not intended to be done solo which is why there is normally a minimum queue size of 3.
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Old 11-05-2015, 08:04 PM   #24
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Hey Dragonsnacks, which zone did you run?
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Old 11-05-2015, 08:36 PM   #25
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Maldura: Algorithm For Destruction [Agnostic] - incoming damage seems fine on this one, mobs have decent HP. I tried to solo some of it on my zerker and it was tough. This is how agnostics should be! Really looking forward to going in here with a group.
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Old 11-06-2015, 12:04 AM   #26
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Seems all of them. im runnign Algorithm for Destruction and an immolated invader would hit for 0 then start hittin gfor 6k, the spiders also hit normal then spike for 20k. its almost like all the mobs have temp buffs or procs that jump their damage way up. The spiders seem to hit for 20k more then the Invaders would hit for 6k. but they swarm so its hard to tell
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Old 11-06-2015, 12:31 AM   #27
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Could it be the Shrapnel and Stalker Missiles buffs they seem to get from time to time.
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Old 11-06-2015, 01:53 AM   #28
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My experiences with Maldura:Algorithm for Destruction, using a solo level 22: (details come from advanced combat tracker)

immolated invader:
burn initially at 16k, then drops to a steady 13k
Cerulean Flame 50k

Dark Gears summoner:
Acrane Sparks 55k
zap once at 22k, then drops to 18k
undead pump worker (grouped with the Dark Gear summoner):
crush 25k

Old Doclin:
burn switching between 13k and 16k, took forever for him to die, but not too difficult.

Stonerend: (needless to say I died pretty fast, took 637k damage in 4 seconds)
Pummeling Onslaught 510k
Stone Shockwave 55k, 6400 power drain (in other works, instantly drained all my power)
crush 20k

xp scaling is definitely off, getting either 3150 or 5250 xp off each mob (no vitality, 25% effects bonus, no veteran bonus).
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Old 11-06-2015, 03:22 AM   #29
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Some issues I come across in the agnostic zone Kralet Penumbra: The Master's Chosen(playing as 94 Berserker 240k HP)
-First few group of mobs would hit for 60k-80k, as I move farther in mobs were hitting me for no more than 20k until I killed the first 2 nameds then it went back up to 60k-80k.
-No clear way to progress through the zone after first 2 nameds and all trash are killed. No doors open, they remain closed.
-Nameds hitting pretty hard, can only kill them if I time my stuns and knockbacks and use deathsaves.
One issue in Kralet Penumbra: Tepid Depths was mentioned above by azcn2503, which was us getting hit for over 1 million damage. I tried the zone again with a merc and I came across the same mobs near the named Cephelon of Many Tentacles. I tried to see if I could one shot the trash with my ranged auto attack but that didn't work cause there health bars didn't move. Got 2 ranged attacks off and they stayed at 100% HP.
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Old 11-06-2015, 03:34 AM   #30
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The Kralet Penumbra agnostics haven't been balanced yet. Hopefully in the next couple of days.
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