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Old 10-24-2012, 02:03 PM   #31
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Ulrichvon wrote:

The issue is, they totally failed to fix the problem.

The problem I layed out in my orriginal post that seemed to get the ball rolling on dev attention is this:

EQ2 provides incentive to not invite other people if your grinding XP.  After this change, if I invite other people the only thing that can possibly result is, the toon I'm trying to get XP for will get less xp.

Think about it, if its just me and my son's toon as my orriginal example, he will get full xp when he can hit a mob before I kill it, and he'll get legacy xp minus encounter bonus xp if he is unable to hit something before I kill it (about 50% of the time I think I one shot the encounter, so he gets no bonus around 50% of the time).

If I invite the other random people in zone, or my friends in guild who want to come along, under that 50% I estimate he doesn't make the hate list on, he would get the xp/N group member penalty cause he didn't make the hate list.

Net result, after this change, its still penalizing me for inviting more people if I'm mentoring down to help someone level.

So from my perspective, all this change is simply a giant swing and a miss.

Yes, it helps xp of people doing heroic content when no one in the group out gears that content.  Like contested SS.  A group going there who doesn't have a raid geared player in it will all get more XP with the new model.  But as soon as you bring a raid geared player (someone that out gears the content), mobs will die before everyone gets on their hate list.  The more people you bring that outgear the zone, the more xp will be fractured.

Penalizing groups cause someone outgears the content in my opinion isn't the right change to be making.

I concur. The best solution is one of the oldest sayings in literature....

"Know when to leave well enough alone".

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Old 10-24-2012, 03:32 PM   #32
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Torquer wrote:

Again - what problem are we trying to solve here?  If the problem is that there aren't enough low level groups, create incentives for grouping that don't penalize others.  If the problem is that you don't want people blasting through low level content, increase the difficulty of that content or otherwise incentivize the desired player behavior.

No one is getting penalized that doesn't deserve to be penalized; they are giving incentives to people who are actively playing the game, preferably with players who are the current level.

Powerleveling is simply horrible for this game and Im glad they are looking at it.  Less laziness ftw.

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Old 10-24-2012, 03:43 PM   #33
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Terrogaunt wrote:

This thread is being stickied to help with players who don't seem to understand the changes (and to prevent the multiple threads being created, which lead to having a different set of information when it comes from two different places).

So, here's the details:

Group EXP Mult changes

Our multiplication goes down based on how many members are in a group. This is how it currently works and will continue to work. 

{The simple fix here would be to end this and give everyone the same XP regardless of group size. This is also the issue most folks have with grouping.}

When you're able to get yourself onto the hatelist (there are a plethora of ways to achieve this), you will earn yourself the amount of exp that you would have recieved in a group of Yourself + however many mercs are in the group. {As many have pointed out, getting on the hatelist is not easy and can cause the group to fail at times>}

This means: Group of 6 ( 4 players, 2 mercs ). The exp for participation will be that of a 3-person group instead of a 6.

Our multiplication goes down based on how many members are in a group. This is how it currently works and will continue to work.  {This is the real problem with gouping, and this is what should be changed.}

Encounter Bonus changes

Encounter bonus is a seperate bit of experience that you get after killing all of the members of a linked encounter. This exp is not influenced by the amount of party members in your group. 

Before, we were giving this to every player in the group regardless of participation. This is the only change that might get you less experience. {You just said above that if not on the hatelist you will get less XP.}

Encounter bonus will only be rewarded to players who are:

-On the hate list {As pointed out this is a penalty for many classes.}

-Have mobs conning higher than green {Why make this change? What is wrong with green mobs?}

-Are not mentored {I thought you wanted foks to mentor other players to encourage grouping with them, etc.}

I've seen the mistake made before, so I'd like to clarify. Encounter bonus is NOT the bonuses multiplied to your raw exp amount. Having veteran bonus, vitality bonus, exp potion bonus, etc will still go into effect.

If you have questions or feedback, please keep it in this thread.

Basicly, no matter how you spin it, this will result in characters getting unequal XP if they play their toons as they should based upon the needs of an encounter. This will force play that will not be group friendly.

I do not care if some folks power level 5 toons on autofollow. I don't care if someone parks a toon at the door while  soloing a zone. (These were issues mentioned at SOE Live)

What I do care about is getting less XP than another group member because of an overly complicated game mechanic that penalizes me for not being an AOE tank.

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Old 10-24-2012, 03:49 PM   #34
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Torquer wrote:

Have you been in some of the lower level zones recently?  You don't see anyone in there at an appropriate level that isn't being PLed.  After leveling 3 different toons from 1-92 in the past 4 months, I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen level appropriate solo and group players in zones under 90 that weren't being PLed by a 90+ character.

You've identified the problem as clearly as anyone could. Then you say why bother with any attempt to fix it?

Torquer wrote:

Again - what problem are we trying to solve here?

EQ2 being a nightmare for new players. I don't understand why people can't get this simple concept.

This doesn't affect you because you have plat and friends who can PL you. What in the world is a new player supposed to do? If I downloaded EQ2, stayed playing, and after about 25 levels or so said "hmm, I'd like to group" and the universal response from every player on the server is "sorry, no grouping til 92", wouldn't you just delete the game and go to something else?

The goal is not to keep EQ2 on life support, but to grow the game.

If you don't think the team has spent more of the last year trying to get the attention of NEW players than adding 92+ content, you haven't been paying attention. SOEmote wasn't for the established player. It was to wake up the gaming press and to attract new players. I am seeing EQ2 advertising on every website I turn to.

Nothing changes for people who like to PL or like how the game works now. This is Bonus XP for groups of characters of EQUAL level and EQUAL power. If you try to shoehorn a pocket rocket 92 in with some 40's it isn't going to work.

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Old 10-24-2012, 03:51 PM   #35
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tekadeo what you are saying is people are "Lazy" that's why they power level? I believe that's a very incorrect statement.

So let’s back track here a bit, if SOE is trying to gain more population and the game is more higher end content; wouldn’t you want to get to a higher level to group with individuals? If it takes let’s say 12 more hours to level a character in a old game people don’t want to do that. They want to play the game they want too, and that’s SOE’s model for the game.

Free to play your way!” which as it should be.

Now, going over this entire discussion of those who should be grouping to level as is. Where is all this population coming from to group with these individuals? I understand that you’re angry about power levelers, but who cares? I mean after all they pay to play the same game, or even F2P whatever. The problem here is the change is years too late, which is fine to test things out here for EQnext, but this is why Rift lost tons of population. If someone wants to purchase 12 accounts an pay monthly to power level because that’s fun to them GO FOR IT, but they should not be penalized for something they enjoy.

EQ2 is a great game which has continued me on a path of always returning and returning to EQ1 even. The problem is the game models are old, and trying to “reinvent the wheel” after all these years is pointless. However, testing I am fine with, which is why we have that beta/testing severs to go over these things, but putting them into live in some cases is a no go.

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Old 10-24-2012, 04:13 PM   #36
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Sooo you'll still get experience for afk powerleveling just not as much as a person participating.  OH NO!  Quick start crying!

Gamers these days make me sick.  If ANY of you complaining played EQ1 and actually leveled and enjoyed yourself in it then I can't even begin to fathom how you can complain about such a small change that is going to entice gameplay and not just afk powerleveling or afk merc leveling.

Have to complain about everything regardless of the positives being far greater than the negatives.

We'll make people play the game over just setting afk...getting to cap...then having no idea whatsoever how to play your toon.  Sort of like the tank the other day wearing wisdom gear or how about the inquisitor adorned with strikethrough.  I can go into UD, with almost half level 90 pvp gear, on a supposed broken class (ranger) and top the parse by almost double with most people in raid gear.  I can also go into UD, have people that raid it or other zones, and not be able to grasp the concepts of UD the dungeon and not be able to complete it.  And SoE is giving us a reason to actually play the game to level over just afking to level and we're complaining?  Lol.  Such a poor poor community of gamers we have these days.  Again, no wonder the MMOs are de-evolving into a hand-holding mush.

PLAY THE GAME.

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Old 10-24-2012, 04:15 PM   #37
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salty21db wrote:

Sooo you'll still get experience for afk powerleveling just not as much as a person participating.  OH NO!  Quick start crying!

Most of us I think are all for removing afk leveling of all kinds. The problems with the implementation of these changes are not specific to afkers.

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Old 10-24-2012, 04:18 PM   #38
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Terrogaunt wrote:

Domyr Farseeker wrote:

When you say "Are not mentored", is that referring to players who are getting mentored or the players doing the mentoring?

This refers to the player who's actual level doesn't match his current level. The player who used /mentor and /unmentor.

I sure hope you guys are going to be boosting quest exp astronomically then for the higher levels. Because at the moment, it's abysmal. I don't know one single person who actually QUESTED to go from 90-92

Pertaining to the bolded part I agree 100%. On Beta server I have done every quest I can do so far that is not bugged as well as killing tons of mobs and have gotten all of 40% of a level. The amount of XP being awarded is a joke.

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Old 10-24-2012, 04:19 PM   #39
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Ulrichvon wrote:

salty21db wrote:

Sooo you'll still get experience for afk powerleveling just not as much as a person participating.  OH NO!  Quick start crying!

Most of us I think are all for removing afk leveling of all kinds. The problems with the implementation of these changes are not specific to afkers.

Kill 10x+ as fast with a powerleveler in general versus a regular level group of toons.  How is subtraction of experience to the person killing 10x faster bad?  Maff...

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Old 10-24-2012, 04:21 PM   #40
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salty21db wrote:

  How is subtraction of experience to the person killing 10x faster bad?  Maff...

When it penalizes players that are active.

It is 1000x better to code this so that inactive players get no xp.  And there are far better ways of determining inactivity than agro list.

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Old 10-24-2012, 04:23 PM   #41
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Ulrichvon wrote:

salty21db wrote:

  How is subtraction of experience to the person killing 10x faster bad?  Maff...

When it penalizes players that are active.

It is 1000x better to code this so that inactive players get no xp.  And there are far better ways of determining inactivity than agro list.

Please list example.

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Old 10-24-2012, 04:23 PM   #42
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Tekadeo wrote:

Torquer wrote:

Again - what problem are we trying to solve here?  If the problem is that there aren't enough low level groups, create incentives for grouping that don't penalize others.  If the problem is that you don't want people blasting through low level content, increase the difficulty of that content or otherwise incentivize the desired player behavior.

No one is getting penalized that doesn't deserve to be penalized; they are giving incentives to people who are actively playing the game, preferably with players who are the current level.

Powerleveling is simply horrible for this game and Im glad they are looking at it.  Less laziness ftw.

Not to sound overly negative, but who are you to say I'm not playing the game "correctly"?  I pay to play on two accounts.  I pay every month.  I don't get involved in foolishness with buying/selling SC cards, etc.

I think we're on dangerous ground when one group of players dictates to another group of players how and when they should play.  My advice would be to play as you wish and allow me to do the same.

I'd also like to know how powerlevling isn't "actively playing the game."  I'd wager I've seen and experienced more of this game and more of its content than most - I take umbrage at the notion somehow I'm "doing it wrong."

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Old 10-24-2012, 04:25 PM   #43
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salty21db wrote:

Ulrichvon wrote:

salty21db wrote:

  How is subtraction of experience to the person killing 10x faster bad?  Maff...

When it penalizes players that are active.

It is 1000x better to code this so that inactive players get no xp.  And there are far better ways of determining inactivity than agro list.

Please list example.

I already have, in this very thread even.  The more players in your group that outgear the zone your in, the higher the likelihood players in the group will be penalized due to their inability to get on the hate list of every mob.

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Old 10-24-2012, 04:25 PM   #44
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salty21db wrote:

Sooo you'll still get experience for afk powerleveling just not as much as a person participating.  OH NO!  Quick start crying!

Gamers these days make me sick.  If ANY of you complaining played EQ1 and actually leveled and enjoyed yourself in it then I can't even begin to fathom how you can complain about such a small change that is going to entice gameplay and not just afk powerleveling or afk merc leveling.

Have to complain about everything regardless of the positives being far greater than the negatives.

We'll make people play the game over just setting afk...getting to cap...then having no idea whatsoever how to play your toon.  Sort of like the tank the other day wearing wisdom gear or how about the inquisitor adorned with strikethrough.  I can go into UD, with almost half level 90 pvp gear, on a supposed broken class (ranger) and top the parse by almost double with most people in raid gear.  I can also go into UD, have people that raid it or other zones, and not be able to grasp the concepts of UD the dungeon and not be able to complete it.  And SoE is giving us a reason to actually play the game to level over just afking to level and we're complaining?  Lol.  Such a poor poor community of gamers we have these days.  Again, no wonder the MMOs are de-evolving into a hand-holding mush.

PLAY THE GAME.

If you think this is a small change you're mistaken.  Powerleveling low level toons who do not engage the mob lose out on a good 50-80% experience by losing the encounter bonus.  This is math that can't be argued with and something I've watched closely as I've powerleveled my own alts.

Oh, and I played EQ1 since launch up until EQ2 launched.  If I wanted EQ1 mechanics and grinding, I'd go play EQ1.

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Old 10-24-2012, 04:25 PM   #45
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Torquer wrote:

Tekadeo wrote:

Torquer wrote:

Again - what problem are we trying to solve here?  If the problem is that there aren't enough low level groups, create incentives for grouping that don't penalize others.  If the problem is that you don't want people blasting through low level content, increase the difficulty of that content or otherwise incentivize the desired player behavior.

No one is getting penalized that doesn't deserve to be penalized; they are giving incentives to people who are actively playing the game, preferably with players who are the current level.

Powerleveling is simply horrible for this game and Im glad they are looking at it.  Less laziness ftw.

Not to sound overly negative, but who are you to say I'm not playing the game "correctly"?  I pay to play on two accounts.  I pay every month.  I don't get involved in foolishness with buying/selling SC cards, etc.

I think we're on dangerous ground when one group of players dictates to another group of players how and when they should play.  My advice would be to play as you wish and allow me to do the same.

I'd also like to know how powerlevling isn't "actively playing the game."  I'd wager I've seen and experienced more of this game and more of its content than most - I take umbrage at the notion somehow I'm "doing it wrong."

How does this change prevent you from playing the game how you want to?

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Old 10-24-2012, 04:32 PM   #46
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feldon30 wrote:

Torquer wrote:

Have you been in some of the lower level zones recently?  You don't see anyone in there at an appropriate level that isn't being PLed.  After leveling 3 different toons from 1-92 in the past 4 months, I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen level appropriate solo and group players in zones under 90 that weren't being PLed by a 90+ character.

You've identified the problem as clearly as anyone could. Then you say why bother with any attempt to fix it?

Torquer wrote:

Again - what problem are we trying to solve here?

EQ2 being a nightmare for new players. I don't understand why people can't get this simple concept.

This doesn't affect you because you have plat and friends who can PL you. What in the world is a new player supposed to do? If I downloaded EQ2, stayed playing, and after about 25 levels or so said "hmm, I'd like to group" and the universal response from every player on the server is "sorry, no grouping til 92", wouldn't you just delete the game and go to something else?

The goal is not to keep EQ2 on life support, but to grow the game.

If you don't think the team has spent more of the last year trying to get the attention of NEW players than adding 92+ content, you haven't been paying attention. SOEmote wasn't for the established player. It was to wake up the gaming press and to attract new players. I am seeing EQ2 advertising on every website I turn to.

Nothing changes for people who like to PL or like how the game works now. This is Bonus XP for groups of characters of EQUAL level and EQUAL power. If you try to shoehorn a pocket rocket 92 in with some 40's it isn't going to work.

I didn't say it wasn't a problem - in fact I clearly said it was a problem and offered suggestions to address it.  "Any" solution doesn't make it the right solution.  You could implement all kinds of "fixes" for a problem that end up penalizing others or making a problem worse (or creating a new problem).  The idea that a problem exists and without quorum discussion the SINGLE suggestion for fixing it isn't a good one doesn't mean that no one agrees theres a problem.  It means the solution isn't optimal.  I am suggesting we take the time to address the problem correctly, not in a kneejerk haphazard way that ends up making more issues all around.

I'm going to assume SOE's limited resources for EQ2 prevent fixing the problem the "right" way which is a wholesale redesign of low level content combined with incentives for experiencing that content at the appropriate level/gear level, but thats really not my problem.  I'm not harming anyone with the way I play, and I expect as a legitimate paying subscriber that I won't be penalized rather randombly because of the way I choose to play.

If EQ2 wants to bring in new players, it needs to continue creating new content and shaping membership levels appropriately, not by penalizing members like myself who have been around since inception and paid Sony literally thousands of dollars to experience their hard work.

And for the record, I don't need "plat and friends" to PL my own alts.  Anyone with a proper spec'ed Berserker with a Mythical can clear room after room without issue.

Just because this change doesn't harm you doesn't mean its ok.  Nor is it ok just because you happen to agree with it.

And finally, again, this will not overnight increase the player population.  MMOs have moved on and EQ2 is in a maintenance phase.  SOE is focused on EQNext/EQ3 (as they should be).  This is a game fast approaching the 10 year mark - its never going to be 2005 again.

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Old 10-24-2012, 04:35 PM   #47
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salty21db wrote:

Torquer wrote:

Tekadeo wrote:

Torquer wrote:

Again - what problem are we trying to solve here?  If the problem is that there aren't enough low level groups, create incentives for grouping that don't penalize others.  If the problem is that you don't want people blasting through low level content, increase the difficulty of that content or otherwise incentivize the desired player behavior.

No one is getting penalized that doesn't deserve to be penalized; they are giving incentives to people who are actively playing the game, preferably with players who are the current level.

Powerleveling is simply horrible for this game and Im glad they are looking at it.  Less laziness ftw.

Not to sound overly negative, but who are you to say I'm not playing the game "correctly"?  I pay to play on two accounts.  I pay every month.  I don't get involved in foolishness with buying/selling SC cards, etc.

I think we're on dangerous ground when one group of players dictates to another group of players how and when they should play.  My advice would be to play as you wish and allow me to do the same.

I'd also like to know how powerlevling isn't "actively playing the game."  I'd wager I've seen and experienced more of this game and more of its content than most - I take umbrage at the notion somehow I'm "doing it wrong."

How does this change prevent you from playing the game how you want to?

It doesn't prevent it, it penalizes it.  I'd really like to know how me taking 2-3x longer to level my alt Mystic benefits you or anyone else, or drives up the subscribing player base.

The opinions of many on this thread seem to be a scorched earth policy to take revenge on PLers for doing something they can't do themselves, don't agree with, or just plain don't like on philosophical grounds.

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Old 10-24-2012, 04:42 PM   #48
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I will power level faster after these changes.

Weeeee.

This !

Seriously, either test it for yourself or at least learn what "being on the hate list" means before complaining...

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Old 10-24-2012, 04:50 PM   #49
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Torquer wrote:

Powerleveling low level toons who do not engage the mob lose out on a good 50-80% experience by losing the encounter bonus.  This is math that can't be argued with and something I've watched closely as I've powerleveled my own alts.

Everyone else's XP has been cut cut cut cut cut the last 3 years trying to balance against Powerleveling. Right now, the 1% controls how the other 99% level.

Torquer wrote:

I didn't say it wasn't a problem - in fact I clearly said it was a problem and offered suggestions to address it.  "Any" solution doesn't make it the right solution.  You could implement all kinds of "fixes" for a problem that end up penalizing others or making a problem worse (or creating a new problem).  The idea that a problem exists and without quorum discussion the SINGLE suggestion for fixing it isn't a good one doesn't mean that no one agrees theres a problem.  It means the solution isn't optimal.  I am suggesting we take the time to address the problem correctly, not in a kneejerk haphazard way that ends up making more issues all around.

I'm going to assume SOE's limited resources for EQ2 prevent fixing the problem the "right" way which is a wholesale redesign of low level content combined with incentives for experiencing that content at the appropriate level/gear level, but thats really not my problem.  I'm not harming anyone with the way I play, and I expect as a legitimate paying subscriber that I won't be penalized rather randombly because of the way I choose to play.

Do they have the manpower to do yet a total revamp of level 1-89 content to make it harder? No. I don't know any MMO developer that does, including Blizzard.

Torquer wrote:

It doesn't prevent it, it penalizes it.  I'd really like to know how me taking 2-3x longer to level my alt Mystic benefits you or anyone else, or drives up the subscribing player base.

The opinions of many on this thread seem to be a scorched earth policy to take revenge on PLers for doing something they can't do themselves, don't agree with, or just plain don't like on philosophical grounds.

The game has been balanced against Powerleveling for 3 years. The end result is total death of 1-89 content. Change is needed. Sorry that as the 1% you will be inconvenienced.

Torquer wrote:

And for the record, I don't need "plat and friends" to PL my own alts.  Anyone with a proper spec'ed Berserker with a Mythical can clear room after room without issue.

How long would it take you to level up a new Berserker to 320AA, mythical, fully geared out WITHOUT YOUR OTHER CHARACTERS, SHARED BANK, or any other resources?

Look at this from the perspective of a new player.

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Old 10-24-2012, 05:01 PM   #50
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feldon30 wrote:

The game has been balanced against Powerleveling for 3 years. The end result is total death of 1-89 content. Change is needed. Sorry that as the 1% you will be inconvenienced.

I'm not really following you on this one Feldon.

How does changing how the 1% level benefit the 99%?

With these changes, the 1% are going to continue to level the same way, and we're going to continue to run over normal players and not include them with us as we level.

I'm not sure how impacting how the 1% levels benefits the 99%.   You could remove this whole hate list component and it wouldn't affect the 99% either way.

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Old 10-24-2012, 05:03 PM   #51
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feldon30 wrote:

...

Everyone else's XP has been cut cut cut cut cut the last 3 years trying to balance against Powerleveling. Right now, the 1% controls how the other 99% level.

...

Something I have been saying for years, that $OE jumps through hoops to prevent the 1% from doing some things (that always fail at the ultimate goal) and punish severly the 99%.

I've tried to join the 1%, but it takes more than commitment.

On Beta the quest XP is underwhelming, but my boxed chars haven't shown up to test how it will affect my boxed accounts.

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Old 10-24-2012, 05:10 PM   #52
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feldon30 wrote:

Torquer wrote:

Powerleveling low level toons who do not engage the mob lose out on a good 50-80% experience by losing the encounter bonus.  This is math that can't be argued with and something I've watched closely as I've powerleveled my own alts.

Everyone else's XP has been cut cut cut cut cut the last 3 years trying to balance against Powerleveling. Right now, the 1% controls how the other 99% level.

Torquer wrote:

I didn't say it wasn't a problem - in fact I clearly said it was a problem and offered suggestions to address it.  "Any" solution doesn't make it the right solution.  You could implement all kinds of "fixes" for a problem that end up penalizing others or making a problem worse (or creating a new problem).  The idea that a problem exists and without quorum discussion the SINGLE suggestion for fixing it isn't a good one doesn't mean that no one agrees theres a problem.  It means the solution isn't optimal.  I am suggesting we take the time to address the problem correctly, not in a kneejerk haphazard way that ends up making more issues all around.

I'm going to assume SOE's limited resources for EQ2 prevent fixing the problem the "right" way which is a wholesale redesign of low level content combined with incentives for experiencing that content at the appropriate level/gear level, but thats really not my problem.  I'm not harming anyone with the way I play, and I expect as a legitimate paying subscriber that I won't be penalized rather randombly because of the way I choose to play.

Do they have the manpower to do yet a total revamp of level 1-89 content to make it harder? No. I don't know any MMO developer that does, including Blizzard.

Torquer wrote:

It doesn't prevent it, it penalizes it.  I'd really like to know how me taking 2-3x longer to level my alt Mystic benefits you or anyone else, or drives up the subscribing player base.

The opinions of many on this thread seem to be a scorched earth policy to take revenge on PLers for doing something they can't do themselves, don't agree with, or just plain don't like on philosophical grounds.

The game has been balanced against Powerleveling for 3 years. The end result is total death of 1-89 content. Change is needed. Sorry that as the 1% you will be inconvenienced.

Torquer wrote:

And for the record, I don't need "plat and friends" to PL my own alts.  Anyone with a proper spec'ed Berserker with a Mythical can clear room after room without issue.

How long would it take you to level up a new Berserker to 320AA, mythical, fully geared out WITHOUT YOUR OTHER CHARACTERS, SHARED BANK, or any other resources?

Look at this from the perspective of a new player.

I'm flattered that somehow I have joined the top eschelon of the EQ2 ranks despite never having experienced SS, not raiding after TSO, and not having any of the best gear.  My oldest toon was created 3 months after EQ2 launch.  My existing toons were max level and raid geared as of TSO before I took a long break and came back.  Since then I have been working hard for the last 5 months to get all of my toons leveled and to get some alts as well.  I'm still not done.  Granted I have 8 toons that are level 92, but none have any amazing gear, I never buy anything off of /auction, and one isn't yet 320 AAs.

To suggest somehow my opinion isn't valid because I've achieved things *on my own* is rather insulting.  I didn't get where I'm at by cheating or doing anything else.  I worked hard and leveled my toons the way I wanted to, and I didn't do it by being a jerk to anyone else or depriving them of the same.

I was a new player once - I went through the gauntlet of leveling on my own with groups.  I didn't buy my accounts - I didn't magically become 92/320.  So yes I have been there, and I was there when it was a lot harder to level, when the population was much higher.  It was a different game and a different time.

I don't disagree there are changes to be made, but lazily suggesting that SOE just doesn't have time to do it right so we should put in place some haphazard attempt to "fix" a problem that has existed for years is BS.  I don't have a problem solving the problem.  I don't have a problem bolstering the content at low levels or adding rewards for it.  I do have a problem doing any of those things at my expense simply because I've become an experienced player with years of play time under my belt.

SOE can do better, and all of you can do better than to say "well it doesn't hurt me so its not a bad idea."  I guarantee all of you would be gathering torches and pitchforks if this change negatively impacted you.  Its sad that so many of you are so willing to dump on others out of schadenfreude and little else.  

Fix the real problem or leave it alone.

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Old 10-24-2012, 05:28 PM   #53
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So the problem is that people are power leveling? I mean really is that a problem. Playing both EQ1 and EQ2 since launch and PL’ing has always been around. The focus of full groups actively playing for bonus experience sounds great, but those who are not on the hate list or ect ect gaining less experience sounds awful.

So, I want to PL my toons? It’s the way I enjoy myself after a 40 hour week, and new people coming into the game can level faster. How is any of this a problem for the population? The answer is simple there is no problem. People are nitpicking over something that (1) has not gone live or hasn’t been stated that it will go live (2) EverQuest has always and will always have people who would rather grind out/PL versus questing (3) If you want an easier game to PL in look at WoW, and even EQ1 is easier to PL in versus EQ2.

There is no real problem here, and this is why SOE needs to leave the experience alone. However, I am not against SOE putting in a better group bonus for those who are “actively” playing the game. So, let’s make it simple here if you’re in a group and PLing the experience should remain the same. If you’re in a full group of people actively playing you gain a higher amount of bonus experience per individual. How hard is that to do? Let’s focus on bringing people into the game and planning for EQnext, let’s not focus on cutting experience for those who are trying to come into the game to play with friends.

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Old 10-24-2012, 05:33 PM   #54
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

So the problem is that people are power leveling? I mean really is that a problem. Playing both EQ1 and EQ2 since launch and PL’ing has always been around. The focus of full groups actively playing for bonus experience sounds great, but those who are not on the hate list or ect ect gaining less experience sounds awful.

So, I want to PL my toons? It’s the way I enjoy myself after a 40 hour week, and new people coming into the game can level faster. How is any of this a problem for the population? The answer is simple there is no problem. People are nitpicking over something that (1) has not gone live or hasn’t been stated that it will go live (2) EverQuest has always and will always have people who would rather grind out/PL versus questing (3) If you want an easier game to PL in look at WoW, and even EQ1 is easier to PL in versus EQ2.

There is no real problem here, and this is why SOE needs to leave the experience alone. However, I am not against SOE putting in a better group bonus for those who are “actively” playing the game. So, let’s make it simple here if you’re in a group and PLing the experience should remain the same. If you’re in a full group of people actively playing you gain a higher amount of bonus experience per individual. How hard is that to do? Let’s focus on bringing people into the game and planning for EQnext, let’s not focus on cutting experience for those who are trying to come into the game to play with friends.

I agree 100%.  Lets find solutions that offer intended benefits without penalizing others and be clear about the problems we are trying to solve before we offer solutions that may be worse than the perceived problem.

Like Sormr says, you can offer a benefit to lowbies WITHOUT penalizing us PLers.  The only justification for penalizing PLers is out of spite.  The two are not dependent upon each other.

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Old 10-24-2012, 05:50 PM   #55
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feldon30 wrote:

I really think people underestimate how cool this change is going to be. I am actually excited about (instead of dreading) leveling my mystic. If it goes right, I'll be able to group up in a different zone every night and get enough XP that I'll never dream of grinding in Palace of Awakened for 10 hours straight ever again.

I just find this so bizarre. I do group up in a different zone every night and I do get enough XP, and it's always cool and exciting. If all you do is go to PoA, it's nobody's fault but your own. I run whichever zone I think might be fun on the day, not the one I think will give me the maximum XP. There is nothing SOE can do to stop you from grinding if that's your obsession - whatever their XP changes, there will be an ultimate way of getting XP and the grinders and powerlevellers will find it.

I feel like the XP changes are penalizing me, even though I have never powerlevelled (can't stand grinding). For instance, if there's a level 90 in my group and I am 92 (but not maxxed on AAs), I tend to choose to mentor the 90. That way he gets more XP and will catch up to me quicker, while at the same time I get a reasonable amount of XP going towards my AA. Now you're saying that my trying to be helpful will actually result in me not getting any encounter XP bonus? That sounds ridiculous to me.

Why make the system so convoluted? If mobs are not grey, they give XP. If mobs are linked, they give encounter bonuses. If there are more than one of you in the group, add bonus XP per player. That seems simple and straightforward to me, no need to mess about with anything else. I won't change how I play the game regardless, but I do think that to a lot of players, it would be unfair to go ahead with the changes to encounter XP as they are.

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Old 10-24-2012, 05:52 PM   #56
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Let be clear , it’s not just PLers. "My way" is to level/grind to 90 then mentor down , and play the lower content for AA. While this may not be your way or the most efficient way , I love the low end game. I love the current self mentor / mentor system. Yes it could be called  "easy mode” as mentoring down leaves me overpowered for the content I’m fighting, but I also already pay a hefty xp penalty for mentoring down. Now you want to further hurt my xp by taking away my encounter bonus,because im self mentored. So not only am I going to lose my vet bonus, unless I buy an expansion of content I don’t want and then level my toons to 95. I will also lose my encounter bonus.

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Old 10-24-2012, 06:06 PM   #57
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ghost_57 wrote:

Let be clear , it’s not just PLers. "My way" is to level/grind to 90 then mentor down , and play the lower content for AA. While this may not be your way or the most efficient way , I love the low end game. I love the current self mentor / mentor system. Yes it could be called  "easy mode” as mentoring down leaves me overpowered for the content I’m fighting, but I also already pay a hefty xp penalty for mentoring down. Now you want to further hurt my xp by taking away my encounter bonus,because im self mentored. So not only am I going to lose my vet bonus, unless I buy an expansion of content I don’t want and then level my toons to 95. I will also lose my encounter bonus.

+1

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Old 10-24-2012, 06:34 PM   #58
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sounds like I'll just be keeping contested zones cleared longer when I'm pl'ing my wife.  that sounds like a negative for any 'at level' groups trying to xp when the pl'rs will need more time to gain the xp.

It also goes to show just how many devs actually play the game.

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Old 10-24-2012, 06:40 PM   #59
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[email protected] wrote:

sounds like I'll just be keeping contested zones cleared longer when I'm pl'ing my wife.  that sounds like a negative for any 'at level' groups trying to xp when the pl'rs will need more time to gain the xp.

It also goes to show just how many devs actually play the game.

Well said!

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Old 10-24-2012, 09:39 PM   #60
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From all the PL talk, it sounds like the best solution would be to sell the 90/280 token that SJ asked for feedback on some time ago. 

Then you wouldn't need to keep zones cleared, just buy the token and run SS a few hundred times.

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