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Old 05-25-2010, 10:32 AM   #31
snowli

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First off, if you are getting wrath's blessing on raids, the mystic mythical effect has become nearly useless. SMILEY

Secondly we do need to factor in all the little wards as you call them, they are dropping by a lot 20% on runic armor over 33% on torpor, spiritual leadership, ward on cure etc etc- torpor and spiritual leadership make up significant parts of my heal parse often.

Thirdly as you infer at least half the healers are seeing pure increase, only mystics furies and templars can be seeing a number of large downgrades.

Finally masses of the gear and adornment advances for mystics become worthless, as most things will cap so easily on ability mod.

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Old 05-26-2010, 04:54 PM   #32
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Again, this is in the IN TESTING forum, not locked, still rageing mates.  This is horrible, we have no viable adorns at this point because we cap on abilty mod, and our Myth Click now effects what?  2 out or 5 wards?  Maybe 1 if your super geared. 

Its garbage what you did, you could have made the OLD EFFECT a trigger proc, like 2.5 a minute for 20 seconds or something, and it probably could have fixed your QQ crap over fixing something that ISNT BROKE, WASNT BROKE, and was NEVER claimed to be broke by ANYONE, even rival healers. 

Thanks for nerfing 3 healers with the update, while hella boosting the others without even bothering to give us a new myth clicky or proc or something.  STELLAR guys

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Old 05-27-2010, 05:40 AM   #33
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Well the patch has landed and GRATZ SOE you have right royaly f^^^d us over!! I feel sick in my stomach looking at the new figures. And torpor down by 1/3. OMG you re tar ds!

A poor equipped r et ard slacker defiler can now outheal a geared excellent Mystic!!! What have you done!!! Its a complete joke. Maybe if I pinch myself i'll find it's just a bad dream.

Ouch! I guess not

/quits

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Old 05-27-2010, 09:37 AM   #34
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Awesome, the myth nerf is masked by potency cap lifting, so a lot of ppl will miss it entirely...especially since its not in the update notes...

We can still hope for enough ppl realizing what happened and /petitioning to get an undo...right?

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Old 05-27-2010, 11:29 AM   #35
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Hene wrote:

Awesome, the myth nerf is masked by potency cap lifting, so a lot of ppl will miss it entirely...especially since its not in the update notes...

We can still hope for enough ppl realizing what happened and /petitioning to get an undo...right?

That's why I think its BS when someone said the dev's claimed they would look for imbalances.  They did not put anything about it in the patch notes AND they did not change the language on either the myth buff or the mythical. 

Since 85% of the mystics in the game won't notice the issue because of the raise in the potency cap, because they didn't have the gear for this change to make a difference, the only logical explaination I can come up with is that they do NOT want a lot of people noticing and this complaining because they would then either have to either actually think OR they would have to tell these players that they were going to do NOTHING.  Pretty shady if you ask me.  Its almost the nail in the coffin for me in terms of this game. 

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Old 05-28-2010, 06:09 AM   #36
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Unneeded, undisclosed, and plain stupid.

SOE: Ugh, just ugh.

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Old 05-29-2010, 02:09 PM   #37
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We should all know by now that SOE does not care at all what we think.. if that was the case then the mythicals wouldn't have been nerfed to a 10 min  recast.. now this... they only care about what they want to force feed you.. ie battlegrounds and stuff that no body wanted in the first place..and like mentioned somewhere.. devs don't read these threads.. because if they did they would take most of these outcry's into account... should I quit.. no i have a lot of money tied into them now and have lots of RL friends that I play with so I will suck it up as usual,,, but once again SOE screws up something working and doesn't fix anything else.. /sigh

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Old 05-31-2010, 10:14 AM   #38
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As a result from the nerf my runic armor dropped by a large amount under my raid/group set up (in that set up i don't have improved runic armor), but i rose by a very small amount under my solo tree (max improved runic armor).

So we are in the following situation :

Improved runic armor (max rank) is now a regenerating ward that heal/protect as much as runic armor did with no improvement.

It's really a big Nerf.

What is wonderfull is that nothing mention is on the patch notes.

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Old 05-31-2010, 10:23 AM   #39
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I  quite agree with some opinions sted there, i never heard anyone claiming that mystics were too powerfull; my warden don't think so even is she is not the best healer for a group 1, she deals with heroic content as well (and may be better) than my mystic.

I never  saw any comment on the work chats asking for a mystic nerf.

May be a couple of high end mystic were too powerfull, but the nerf is affecting anyone. SOE just did another of its legendary bad move, it seems that they are unable to learn anything amd first and foremost : the golden rule "don't make arbitrary change without at least discussing with the player base

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Old 05-31-2010, 10:32 AM   #40
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I found the old value of my runic armor , it was 482 not it is around 386 and with maxed improved runic armor it is at 500. The hold for torpor. So basically i need now to spend 5 aas to get the same runic armor as before.

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Old 06-01-2010, 04:36 PM   #41
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I just wish we could get a straight answer that this was what they intended or not. =(

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Old 06-01-2010, 08:14 PM   #42
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I just wish we could get a straight answer that this was what they intended or not. =(

Yes and No.  Apparently the meant to nerf reaver but were not intelligent enough to realize other things shared the mechanic and nerfing Reaver would nerf those.  Rather than undo it and figure out another way to nerf Reaver (eg. actually think and spend time) they have simply said "we will keep an eye on things".  Thing is though this was sent in a PM to ONE player so its probably a bunch of BS just to placate that one cat.  Putting anything on the forums would be inviting flames since I really think they have NO intention of addressing the issue, they just want it all to go away.

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Old 06-01-2010, 09:02 PM   #43
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

These are the numbers I am seeing through calculations for my heal spec:

Mystic w/Mastered Wards, 66% Crit Bonus, 1370 Wisdom, and Wrath's Blessing Maxing Ability Mod

Before Change

Ancestral Ward VIII     11,625 (116% Potency With Mythical Effect - Currently capped at 100% though)

Umbral Warding VII     17,112  (100% Potency With Mythical Effect)

After Change

Ancestral Ward VIII     11,569 (99% Potency Without Mythical Effect)  (Loosing 56 in ward size)

Umbral Warding VII     16,138 (89% Potency Without Mythical Effect)  (Loosing 974 in ward size, 6% Less)

If SoE left everything alone:

Ancestral Ward VIII     12,510 (116% Potency With Mythical Effect)  (Gain 885, 7% Larger)

Umbral Warding VII     17,112 (100% Potency With Mythical Effect) Same

I know there is more going on with misc minor wards like Torpor, Oberon, and Runic Armor, but looking at the major wards (at least in my case) instead of giving me a slightly larger single target ward, they are decreasing my group ward by almost 1000 points?  [Removed for Content] - this seriously blows.  It's like downgrading my Master spell to Adept.  Unless you have 10+% more potency than I do, your going to see the same kind of negative effect if this goes live.  Other healers are seeing gains with the Potency cap being lifted, why are we being penalized?

Those look like some very, very big heals to me. Seems to be a lot bigger then my solo or group regen. Someday I will grow up and be a real healer like shaman, lol.  Going to have to read the rest of the thread to see if they changed it out of curiosity.

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Old 06-01-2010, 09:06 PM   #44
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Gisallo wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I just wish we could get a straight answer that this was what they intended or not. =(

Yes and No.  Apparently the meant to nerf reaver but were not intelligent enough to realize other things shared the mechanic and nerfing Reaver would nerf those.  Rather than undo it and figure out another way to nerf Reaver (eg. actually think and spend time) they have simply said "we will keep an eye on things".  Thing is though this was sent in a PM to ONE player so its probably a bunch of BS just to placate that one cat.  Putting anything on the forums would be inviting flames since I really think they have NO intention of addressing the issue, they just want it all to go away.

That just means you all will have to keep posting numbers and other stuff to show how you are now the weakest healer there is to justify them fixing it. They seem to hate to change something once it goes live unless there is constant unending feedback about how and why its bad.

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Old 06-01-2010, 09:36 PM   #45
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Oakum wrote:

Those look like some very, very big heals to me. Seems to be a lot bigger then my solo or group regen. Someday I will grow up and be a real healer like shaman, lol.  Going to have to read the rest of the thread to see if they changed it out of curiosity.

Well thos number are from a raiding mystic with high potency, mine has 20-30% potency and 1000-1200 ab mod and her wards were in the 8000 (group) and 6000 (single) if not buffed. Those numbers may get higher (coercitive healing, paladin raid buf, bard buf ...).

Don't conclude from those numbers that mystic are Overpowered, my warden can solo heal probably better than my mystic, she has much higher HPS and no mana issue, her main problem is spike damage. I can quite compare since both have similar equipments.

I was really looking forward a 1K runic armor, my warden can almost spam her fast group heal and single such heal bring back any non tank from almost red to yellow in 2 seconds. A permanent running tempest + a group heal  is much stronger than a group ward to protect a group.

I can't speak about balance in raids, but facing heroic or solo content  the mystics were not overpowered.

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Old 06-01-2010, 11:03 PM   #46
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Oakum wrote:

...They seem to hate to change something once it goes live unless there is constant unending feedback about how and why its bad.

Ancestral Sentry got fixed within 3 days....

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=479859

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Old 06-02-2010, 03:37 AM   #47
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Err yes, but that was a bug. The nerf to our myth is a feature "working as intended" following on from the changes introduced intended to throttle back SKs. Unfortunately it had little effect on them as they got boosted in other ways. Furies and Mystics however got the full force of the nerf with no redeeming features whatsoever. SOE will do nothing about this because healing is not "sexy". Only raw "deepz" issues warrant their attention these days. It's just a pity none of the devs will come public over their thinking on this aside from the occasional PM to community reps.

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Old 06-02-2010, 02:19 PM   #48
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Oakum wrote:

That just means you all will have to keep posting numbers and other stuff to show how you are now the weakest healer there is to justify them fixing it. They seem to hate to change something once it goes live unless there is constant unending feedback about how and why its bad.

First those are a hard core raiding mystic's numbers.  SECOND you can't be comparing a Mystic to say a warden under these circumstances.  You compare (at least I compare) Mystic to Defiler, Fury to Warden etc. when individual classes get a nerf.

Under the current circumstances a Defiler will actually see a boost to their heals due to the update while a Mystic will see a nerf.  A nerf which according to the devs was NOT forseen because their target was Reaver, not the mystic or Fury myths. 

Also comparing apples to apples (raider to raider/casual to casual), yes the individual wards seem large BUT when you look at the parses the difference in heals has NOTHING to do with size but rather heal priority ward before reactive before HoT/regen.  That is healer 101.  The faster casting speed of the HoT/regen mitigate the size of the shaman wards and it becomes the priority based on the game mechanic that creates the percieved imbalance.  This I thought was all stuff that has been known since launch so I assumed you would be aware.  Obviously not.

If you want to complain that Shaman's are somehow uber win button healers as opposed to druids that would be for another thread because this thread is about individual classes being nerfed in comparison to their brother/sister class.  Thank you for trolling

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Old 06-08-2010, 01:10 AM   #49
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SOE - Reply, Admit, Deny, Confirm, WTFEVER you wanna do, say something, say it was your bad, say its working fine, say SOMETHING.   The fact you gimped 3 healers with an update that pretty much made everyone better is stupid.  Leaving as it was effects what?  15% of mystics/furys/templars out there? This isnt like the SK craze of TSO where you royally screwed up and 99% of the game rolled an SK.  It wasnt OP, it wont be OP, and nobody except apparently YOU GUYS think its OP.  Less time on pretty house items and STATION CASH TIGERS and more time on the actual game aye?  GOGO

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Old 06-10-2010, 11:40 AM   #50
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:50 PM   #51
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Alexandrea wrote:

So tired of the chain healer not only having some of the worst gear options in the game but now nerfed again?!?!

I'm going to retire my beloved Mystic whom I have played from day 1, it's too frustrating to be the worst healer in the game and having everyone request a Defiler when the call for a chain healer goes out.

Ok, let's leave the hyperbole at home.

This is not a "worst healer in the game" class.  I was here when we were most definitely in the running for "worst healer in the game".  That time is not now.

We have some issues.  Significant issues.  Pressing issues.  These issues can easily lead to the slow deterioration of the class if left unaddressed.

However, let's not get too excited just yet.

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Old 06-15-2010, 02:30 PM   #52
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Banditman wrote:

Alexandrea wrote:

So tired of the chain healer not only having some of the worst gear options in the game but now nerfed again?!?!

I'm going to retire my beloved Mystic whom I have played from day 1, it's too frustrating to be the worst healer in the game and having everyone request a Defiler when the call for a chain healer goes out.

Ok, let's leave the hyperbole at home.

This is not a "worst healer in the game" class.  I was here when we were most definitely in the running for "worst healer in the game".  That time is not now.

We have some issues.  Significant issues.  Pressing issues.  These issues can easily lead to the slow deterioration of the class if left unaddressed.

However, let's not get too excited just yet.

You are right we are not the worst healing class in the game.  That being said I have seen mystics who aren't "known" getting turned down for groups in favor of a similarly "unknown" defiler since these nerfs came out.  Its all about perception and the perception among people who do not have a clue about shaman's (95% of the game imho) is that Mystics are now on the slope to sucks ville.  If you are a casual mystic who is looking for PUGs you are quickly finding yourself on the outside looking in.  Now part of this is our fault.  There has been more than a little hysteria and hyperbole not only on forums but in level chat even about this issue.  This has caused the less informed to assume that these changes have at best make us second best, at worst broken us.  The funny thing is you really aren't going to notice a hit to healing until the high end of the game where you are capped on mod for most of your stuff.  On the level this is taking place, no one is close to most of the caps so they are not a any real disadvantage.  /shrug

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Old 06-28-2010, 12:36 PM   #53
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I've posted figures too many times to bother doing it again.

The simplest way to put it is, before GU56 when I turned on my mythical buff, all my wards saw a healthy increase, since GU56 most of my wards see absolutely zero, nil, nada, zip increase whatsoever from mythical buff.

They broke our mythical.

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Old 07-06-2010, 04:43 PM   #54
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i think u guys are exaggerating. i've hardly noticed the difference in my ability to do my job.
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Old 07-07-2010, 03:02 PM   #55
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

i think u guys are exaggerating. i've hardly noticed the difference in my ability to do my job.

It's only because you had > 100% potency before the update.

The potency cap removal probably increased your wards by more than the myth nerf decreased them; but for anyone not capped on potency, the change was significant and almost surely noticeable

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Old 07-07-2010, 03:52 PM   #56
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The real issue here is the continued nerfs over time.

It's not this one particular change, it's the total picture.  This is how classes wind up behind the curve and undesireable.  You can't simply keep taking things away.

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Old 07-08-2010, 06:52 PM   #57
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Behind the curve is where we are now, seems to me.  Why would you put a mystic in to solo heal a raid group when it has only one group cure?  And if you are putting two healers in the group, then why would you put a mystic over a defiler?  We're behind the curve.

Banditman wrote:

The real issue here is the continued nerfs over time.

It's not this one particular change, it's the total picture.  This is how classes wind up behind the curve and undesireable.  You can't simply keep taking things away.

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Old 07-08-2010, 08:41 PM   #58
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you'd put a mystic in cuz we will do more deepz and provide more utility. teach ur group how to pot cure tbh. there r no fights that cant be done gcure -> pot cure -> gcure -> pot cure This is assuming ur raid is competent otherwise u probably wouldnt put a mystic in any of ur groups cuz the class is 'behind the curve'. Which btw, nerfing classes makes perfect sense to me in the right situation. The reuse on spirit tap was a kick in the nuts, but then when ur rocking 60-70% reuse ur like, OHhhhh i see why they did that cuz otherwise u would have channeling up every 3 min for 29s or w/e it comes out to. It would be OP cuz of all the reuse they added. I just don't think we have much to cry about right now. I mean, Stampede is amazing! Torpor is now even more amazing, and HEY WHATS UP OBERON? C'mon, that was out of left field, and it feels so good. I've hit some 30k+ dps too and I don't even have to have 2 specs to go from beating the crap out of trash and easy mobs to swapping a few pieces of gear and jumping in heal stance to push out major h.peez. (THANK GOD I HATED TSO FOR NEEDED THE MIRROR EVERY DAM DAY). i would love to see a little less QQ. if the class was unplayable, then ok, but i can't find one limitation based on what is posted here.
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:51 PM   #59
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I am not saying we can't heal it; I am saying why would you do that?  If you're a raid leader, why would you put a mystic in over an inq, say?  The group has to pot in that case when there's no reason to make the group do that.  The issue is not the ppl I raid with, I assure you.  The issue is at the very top end, there's just no reason to have a mystic.  Either a defiler would be better (in the case of really heal intensive stuff where 2 healers are required for the group) or a druid/cleric would be better (when it's solo).

I don't dispute that it can be done; don't get me wrong.  The problem for us is, if there's another healer (and admittedly not all guilds have the luxury of the choice), there are too many reasons to prefer that healer.

Btw, it's not my guild that's a problem, G-dog.  We do fine.  You just don't recognize my SOE name. ;P

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Old 07-09-2010, 12:16 AM   #60
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idc who u r tbh. i didn't even mean u specifically. in general, i think mystics still have a lot of value. If u r talking a dps group then ok sure, inquisitor is a great idea. But for a tank group ur going to need some wards. Defiler is going to be the best bet for middle-ish guilds but mystic would be way better if u want to maximize dps in those groups too. Outside of MT group IDK why u would run a defiler, but mystic in OT group seems pretty awesome to me except that some guilds r easily running 5 healers, so again, inq. prolly the better choice. But, is inq so much better that guilds should have inq.s on app at all times? use shamans until u can find inq replacements? seems drastic. What it really boils down to is, are you getting sat cuz of inquisitors? If you are, that sucks, and I'm not saying I can't see hte possibility, but idt this is a problem for most. It just seems like another QQ angle. "Inquisitors are clearly better, so why would any1 bring my class?"
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