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Old 07-11-2008, 02:44 PM   #1
Banditman

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Alrighty, I've waited a while to sort of see how things are going in Sentinel's Fate, and I think I'm finally ready to point out some shortcomings that I think need to be addressed for the Mystic class.  Hopefully we can get some attention on this.1.  Crit Bonus.  This is a tremendous cloud on the horizon of both Mystics and Defilers.  As I'm sure you know, Shaman receive only half the value from Crit Bonus that other classes receive.  This problem is going to get huge since Crit Bonus, as the only uncapped bonus, is going to be the primary means by which everyone stretches the abilities of their class.  This needs to be addressed promptly.  There is really no reason for the penalty to exist given the direction mechanics have gone.2.  Mystic Tree, Runic Armor AA.  Various research has shown that there is absolutely no reason for this AA to exist.  It has been shown that the AA has no effect in play at L90 due to other mechanics that are in place.  I suggest that this AA be changed.  My personal preference is to see this changed into an AA that gives Runic Armor a non-physical component.  Each AA point gives 20% of the value of Runic Armor as a non-physical Ward, so that with 5 AA's spent you get a non-physical Ward equal to the physical Ward provided by Runic Armor.3.  Mystic Tree, Torpor AA.  This AA has pretty much the same issue as Runic Armor.  The cast speed increase is "ok", but frankly with the available cast haste already available in Sentinel's Fate, it needs a lot of work.  I suggest that instead of the base increase, Torpor AA's each remove 10% of the negative effects from Torpor.  With 5 AA's, you remove 50% of the negative effects.  Combined with the red adornment, you could remove 100% of the negative effects.  This would be a very nice AA at that point.4.  Shaman Tree, Spiritual Companion.  Ok Developers, you want us to have a dog.  This is made abundantly clear to us due to the fact that so many of our available AA's deal with the dog.  We can spend up to 50 of our AA's on ability ranks that directly affect our pet.  That's up to 20% of our total AA's!  Unfortunately, none of those AA's mean a thing if the dog is DEAD.  This dog needs to be immune to everything but direct damage.  This includes directional AE's and AE auto attack.  We get riposte.  He dies to that.  No problem.  But nothing else short of a mob directly attacking him should kill him.  Make it so.  Please.5.  Power Regen.  The nerf to power regen has impacted our class fairly substantially.  We have no means to regenerate our own power, and the slash to power regeneration across the board has been felt.  We do not have the power regeneration abilities of a Defiler.  Spirit Tap, while still good, is only up every 10 minutes now.  That leaves a pretty large period of time where power is a problem for us.  I would suggest that Slothful Spirit be used to fill this gap.  Alter the spell to become a power regen for us, as such:  Target - Enemy.  Duration - 30s.  Recast - 30s.  When target takes hostile action, this spell will apply Sloth's Habitat.  This spell can trigger up to 3 times.  Sloth's Habitat deals 1000-1500 damage to target, and returns 15% of the damage to the Mystic as power regen.  This would solve two problems at once, bonus!

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Old 07-11-2008, 05:02 PM   #2
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I think it almost goes without saying I completely agree with issue #1, I tried to give as much feedback as I could in the testing forum when this came down. Seeing it continue to be in the state it is in to this day annoys me to no end. I understand the need for situation abilities, but not an Ancient teaching- Not the way it currently is. Its just virtually useless, at this point, the only thing I use Ancestral Balm for now is curing when I'm training through somewhere on auto-run or auto-follow.Issue #2 hasn't been a big issue for me personally until going into Runnyeye, and in this case I fully agree- Basically the only time I have a spec with dogdog active I can't use him reliably anyhow,  thanks to AP Mirror he doesn't have a place in my current raid spec anymore. On top of VP concerns I would have to say even the Mist Covered set needs to be looked at. There are a couple slots that I have filled with them currently but overall they are fairly lackluster. Granted I think this is a similar issue across the board with all classes, what it comes down to is people are keeping Legendary items from quests/drops and just banking these (i.e. poor stat distribution).I have to agree that at the very least, the bloodlines spells that were not upgraded need to have an alternate means to acquire it. This goes for other classes that have similar issues (Rogues, etc). The T7 debuffs I also think could use a T8 rehashing, I think at this point it's not as much of an issue. This will need to be looked at seriously come T9 however as there won't be any 'green' dungeons at cap that would be dropping these items. Of course there are other various spells/skills from other classes this consideration would need to be applied to as well.The 'actual' changes to the mythical haven't been posted so I can't form an opinion about that. I am most certainly in agreement that the Cudgel was a great disappointment- it should have been a spear, there's absolutely no convincing me that wasn't a huge mistake to considering anything but. I currently only have the Fabled version of the epic and I can say that it's a permanent fixture in my bag, the effect really isn't worth what is required to maintain it (chaining group heals/buffs/etc). The reward from the Analphylaxis quest (Mace of the Imprisoned) is significantly more powerful in situations where a great deal of healing is required, and in cases where we're able to DPS (I feel) we can do more breaking out a 2H and leaving this thing in the bag than the Double Attack proc would provide to the group (very melee heavy group *might* be the exception). I would say if the proc chance could be altered with Cleric/Dirge/Ancestry it might make me consider using it on more than a gits and shiggles basis. Really I just find the opportunity to use this item as envisioned very limited. And from what I've read the Mythical gets similar treatment from high end raiders where they just use the clicky then go back to something else entirely.
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Old 07-11-2008, 05:38 PM   #3
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I agree with Banditman's list of issues.

Ancient/Ancestral Balm has pretty much become useless to me. 10 second immunity is pretty useless for the average mystic. I certainly can't think of a situation where it would be useful to me. I've used this spell once since the cure changes and that was by instinct rather than the fact it was actually the prefered spell to use. I could completely remove it from my hot bar and not even notice.

The death of dogdog has gotten under my skin since the first time I went to Ascent of the Awakened. AOE immunity should mean just that. It's not like he's some all powerful god force, as Banditman said he should only be dying from agro & riposte.

I can't really comment on VP or other high end armor, I've only seen a couple of T8 raid zones and only a couple of times but my initial reaction to ROK armor for mystics in general was severe disappointment.  I've found it extremely difficult to find something I actually like to wear better than mastercrafted that wasn't leather. I hate being forced into wearing leather. Hate it. More than the devs could ever fathom.

For the masters of spells that don't upgrade, I fully believe they should remain on the loot tables until  they ARE upgraded. I wouldn't cry one bit if I saw Umbral Trap drop in Shard of Hate. I'd be over the moon actually. It would be fantastic to have some hope of actually seeing a master of something that doesn't upgrade rather than having to either level lock yourself or an alt and farm for goodness knows how long to manage to get the one you are looking for. Not so bad currently for the t7 stuff that doesn't upgrade, but in a couple expansions I'm betting those mobs are grey and bet that most folks won't be farming those zones for the length of time they do currently so they will become extremely rare (I think even more rare than devs ever intended masters to be).

I want a spear. I really do. I actually CRIED when I found out that the epic was a cudgel (and an ugly one at that). To be sure I was hugely pregnant and extremely hormonal at the time, but that bloody cudgel brought me to tears. I hate it.

I'm still grumpy about the mystic sow aa nerf. It was something I saw as uncalled for and they never have made a comment on it and the reasons for it. I've accepted the percentage as something that was an intended change, but would still like someone to come by and tell us why when it's pretty obvious there are other classes that are faster, so shouldn't really have been a speed issue.

The Cure aa line is pretty much useless for me unless you rack up all the useless ones to get the mini sanctuary type spell. Pre-cure changes you could at least precast it before an aoe you knew was coming so the little ward could help eat some of the damage. Now you only get the ward after you cure that effect, making it about as useful as the 10 second immunity on our ancient teachings spell.

I'm sure there are more I'll remember when I log on to raid tonight, I'll post anything else I remember later.

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Old 07-12-2008, 04:57 AM   #4
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Banditman wrote:

Hey folks, I notice a lot of activity in some of the other class forums I participate in regarding a more updated "Class Issues" list.  Developers are definitely "looking".  I'd like to see us get together a list of 10 or so issues that are *important* to the class.

Here are a few of mine that I'd like to see addressed, I'm sure we can come up with others.  I'm hoping we can get a cross section of issues here, not only the "Our VP armor sucks" but the problems our class has while leveling, grouping, soloing, etc.

2.  Fix dogdog.  Yes, fix him, he's broken.  It applies to Defilers too.  Look, we spend 24 AA's to get this thing to the point of usefulness, the only time we should have to resummon the thing is when he gets riposted.  If the dog has Spiritual Foresight, he should never die to anything besides a riposte or being at the top of the hate list.  Ever.  Period.

3.  Can we get some *nice* effects on our VP gear please?  I mean seriously . . . I wouldn't replace any of my current gear with the VP gear . . . ok, maybe in the APPEARANCE SLOT.  Come on.  Greater Overloaded Heal?  Greater Replenishing Heal?  Greater Shelter?  Greater Manawell?  Something nice?  Please?  If I see any more +Crit gear I'll puke.

4.  I understand why our debuffs weren't upgraded.  Really, I do.  However, this creates a significant problem in that rising Mystics can't get their hands on the Masters of their important debuffs.  Could we at least get them upgraded and added to the loot tables, even if they're at the same numbers as the T7 versions?  It would be very helpful to newly rising Mystics to get their debuff Masters.

6.  File this one under severely disappointing and terribly annoying:  I want my Epic to be a spear.  I'm sorry, it just doesn't seem "right".  I want a spear, and a lot of other Mystics do too.  It's simply a cosmetic thing, but wow, this is a great opportunity for a developer to aquire some good +Mystic faction.

I'll try to keep this post updated with new ideas as they roll in.

Good grief two post in one day from Banditman and I agree with both, is the world coming to an end, are servers merging? SMILEYI trimmed slight to show what I really want but honestly I would just be happy with an epic spear, please devs just a spear, I promise not to call you names again.
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Old 07-12-2008, 12:10 PM   #5
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First of all Thanks Banditman for getting the ball rolling on this 

My list is in no particular order of importance.

 Pet AE immunity. Please make the pet immune to all AE or fix the description in the AA window if it was never truly intended to be AE immune

 Make our Epic a spear. I don't care if I have to do another quest to change it to a spear. If not please at least tell us the reasoning behind making our epic a club.( and please dont make it the stubby spade type thing that passes as a spear for defilers)

Please keep some type of raid wide effect on our mythical

Fabled Epic, not as useful as it should be. The current proc should proc on attacks as well or just have it perma buff the group once equipped. The proc also needs to have some benefit for caster classes as well 

Rez AA lines. useful only when learning new encounters. After getting strats down this AA line is not very uselful

Cure AA line. not very useful after cure changes

My personal wish:

Add All Priest to all of the Scout only items. 

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Old 07-12-2008, 02:03 PM   #6
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Pet - Enhance AE Immunity to FULL Immunity. If you aren't going to grant full immunity, then change the description, and make our pets stronger, and increase the proc-rate, duration, and effective casting distance of the ward he can put on group-members.NOTE: Pretty sad when Ancestral Sentry is a double-down-arrow timed-buff (ward), and our permanent-pet is a triple-down-arrow. Give our pets either single down arrow status and abilities, or at worst double-down-arrow. A mystic's pet is THE main-stay of the STR-line! If the pet is lame, what the hell is the use of dedicating an AA-line to it!!!AA Cures - Totally freakin useless, especially after the recent spell changes. IMHO, cures should be wiped from our AA-tree, and replaced with a line more appropriate to Mystics, such as a line that would allow us to SINGLE-WARD vs. Arcane / Elemental / Trauma. Have an enhancement in this line for our Prophetic Ward (Group Noxious & Arcane), with an end-item for an all-inclusive ward group-wide or raid-wide.Remove Immunities from INT-Line and replace with something INT-based.Other healer-classes are much better suited to cures. Shaman are noted for their WARDS! Period!AA Rez's - Totally freakin useless...Once again, other healer and non-healer classes are known for their rez's due to their casting speed, recovery, and range WITHOUT AA spec'ing. Replace the rez-line with a line to augment our single-target and group-encounter debuffs (Lethargy, Echoes of the Ancients, Epidemic, Deteriorate, etc.)...Shaman are noted for their DEBUFFS!Epic Weapon - Change it! From BETA, through release and expansions, up to now...a shaman, pointedly Mystics, have always been known for ther ability to use a SPEAR...it is something that made them UNIQUE from other healer-classes! Make our epic a SPEAR!Have two versions...a 2HD and a 1HD. Players would have the option of selecting which one they want when they complete the appropriate quest. Once their selection is made, that's it...they can't change it.This would allow for peeps who like 2HD to get theirs, and peeps who want a 1HD to use an off-hand item (shield/symbol/etc) to get theirs.Only difference between the two spears would be lesser stat-enhancements on the 1HD due to the ability to use an off-hand item.Mystic Armor - Better drop tables...better stats and effects on (class-specific) Soothsayer's / Mist-Covered / Ykesha / etc....'nough said!There is more, but I'll stop here for now. I can always come back and edit my post, or tack on a new one.
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:04 PM   #7
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I've often heard it said that one of our problems is power.   Now I'm guessing that the mythical weapon helps that some, and RoK gear helps it as well.    (Some of us don't anticipate having mythicals any time soon.Add a power transfer to the mystic to the Sloth line.   Sloth is already a spell for long fights,  and seldom used otherwise.   This give it a bit more purpose ideal to those fights.   Agree  dogdog ae immunity needs to work.Balm - is pretty much useless now.    Agree it needs a usefulness boost.   Instant cast, no recovery,  reduced power,   would still seem slim but might make me press it rather than the all priests cure all once in a while.   If adding AA lines,  add a power tap proc for dogdog.    And there's plenty of options for worthless AA abilities under rez and cure lines to replace. Epic should have been a spear,   1H my preference if a choice can't be offered.. Already have T7 debuff masters, but can see the issue with current difficulty in new mystics getting them.Can't speak to VP gear.
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Old 07-14-2008, 10:37 AM   #8
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Im not going to ask for much...

Just would like something useful for Ancient Balm again, what we have is not worth mentioning anymore...

Mystic mythical, at least make it viable! not a plastic and foamy chew toy for our pet dog.

I just read through the (45 or so concerning weapon 'changes' ) " pages and theres a few classes who are really yelling out.... so basically....

Give the Bear a break in 2008!

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Old 07-14-2008, 02:06 PM   #9
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Just a repost from what I wrote on another thread, but this summerizes my issues with the Mystic class having betrayed from Defiler, and the 3 simple things I think Sony could do to put both classes on equal footing while maintaining the subtle differences that make them both interesting and unique in their own right...Not trying to start a class war here but frankly my recommendation would be to go Defiler over Mystic.  I played a Defiler to 80 then betrayed to Mystic because the guild wanted a Mystic in the MT group to hit the MT with Bolster for pulls.  Bolster is one nice spell the Mystics get that Defilers do not, and I think thats fair.  The classes play very similar but here is my observations and why I preferred the Defiler.1. Defilers AP tree was much more in tune with the class, and ultimately more useful.  With the Defiler when I picked AP lines it was a hard choice.  With the Mystic, Beyond the base Shaman APs that are the same as the Defiler, there is one obvious line and 2 frankly weak lines that are not super useful, and that other healers can cover (like the ress line).2. Defiler and Mystic get the same Wards, Mystic also get Oberon which is nice and can be used as an extra Ward in the toolbox, Defilers get Maelstrom which I think is more useful at the end of a fight, but its situational. These two represent a good balance of similar but different spells between the two classes that make them interesting.3. Defilers heals are significantly better, like 25%+ (thats a guess, I'd have to look up the numbers again) more for the same level/same ADIII for example, same power cost.  While you are typically using these to fill in lapses in the Wards, I dont see any reason the Defilers heals should be so much better than the Mystics.  It Definitely helps the Defiler as a stronger solo/group healer.  Not so much on Raids where there are potentially several healers on the MT.4. Big one, Cannibalize.  Defiler gets it, Mystic doesnt.  Not sure why, this was always a base Shamanistic tool in EQ1, regardless of good or evil, but as an example, I needed to kill a 74 ^^^ Heroic in SoF for the Epic shortly after betraying.  Mostly a caster mob so it was very soloable.  As a Mystic I was able to do this and had 3 bubbs of health and 2 bubs of power left (out of a pool of 7200+).  I have done much tougher Mobs with the Defiler and ended full health and down maybe 1 or 1 and 1/2 bubbs of power.  With a Defiler as long as what you are fighting is not a rediculously hard hitting melee, you can fight forever, no down time.  I have found killing skels for the epic that I have to stop every few kills and regen some power.  This is wearing the exact same gear, same food/drink, as when I was a Defiler.5. My wife and I duo a lot with myself and her 80 Fury, in fact we played the chars up from zero.  She has already commented that she has to use a lot more power in our fights than before.  The Fury/Defiler complimented each other very well.   With the subtle differences, particularly Cannibalize, the Defiler.6. The Defilers debuffs are aligned with his DoTs and DDs.  While the Mystic has Nox and Cold to choose from, there does not appear to be a resist debuff for cold.  My experience is that the Debuffs are key to landing solid damage on Mobs as you get higher.  7. Dealing with adds.  Defiler gets two spells, one is a 5sec area effect fear, the other is a single target fear that lasts 18 or 20 secs, cant remember.  The Mystic only gets a 5 sec area effect Mezz.  So Area effect first, the Defilers is actually more useful, both for escape or simply getting a large long casting group ward completed because the mobs not only are feared for 5 secs, but there is another 2-3 secs where they have to run back to you. The Mystic mezz, as soon as it wears off, you are right there in melee range.  And the lack of a single Target Mezz means a single add is bad news. With the Defiler he simply fears it away, (90% of the time this will NOT result in more adds for whatever reason), and by the time the mob runs back to him, the first mob is dead and the defiler is re-warded and waiting.So anyway, having played the Mystic in raid, group and solo a bit now at 80, while the class is very similar at its roots to the Defiler, the Defiler is in my mind a better healer, easier to solo with and can solo tougher targets, and while he doesnt get Bolster for raid pulls, he does get Soul  Ward AP which Raid buffed for me is a single target 9000+ Ward (90% of the defilers health converted to a Ward) which is very for a Boss pull and it can be cast on anyone in the raid, so you dont have to be in the MT group and can take a cast or two immediately after to heal up before any Mob AEs hit.  Down side is the 4min 44sec recast time, where Bolster can be used once for the pull anad typically once during the fight.  But there are often 5 min between Mob pulls where the MT needs the extra Health anyway.  And if you have 2 defilers in raid, alternate and cut the time in half.Just my 2 cents, like I said not trying to start a Defiler/Mystic flame here.  Just my experience having played the two classes, even if my time as a Mystic has been short.  I don't dislike the Mystic, I just think the Defiler is a better rounded more effective Shaman and more similar to EQ1 Shaman.  The two classes are very similar, but I feel Defilers definitely have  an edge in many ways.  Sony could mitigate this very easily without making the two classes duplicates.1. Give mystics a cannibalize line of spells2. Make the Mystic heals the same amount as the defilers3. Give the Mystic a single target CC method for dealing with adds when soloing or in small groups.  Defilers have a long fear, give Mystics a long root, maybe even a root with snare when it breaks or a long single target Mezz.Beyond that I think each class can use its subtle differences to its advantage.  But those are the 3 things that frankly I miss about the Defiler class most and really effect my capabilities as a Mystic in negative ways.Good Luck with whatever you do!
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:23 PM   #10
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Hey Defiler. Mystic heals are as good as Defiler heals (Just that the Mystics heals raise the targets overall health rather than being a larger heal, it all adds up to the same thing, if not slightly favoring the Mystic heals, which I rarely use on raids anyway.)And to address #6. Mystics debuff Noxious and Elemental (Cold falls within the realm of Elemental FYI)Ok, on to Mystic issues.1: I use Balm on things like Venril, but honestly when I remove things like his reactive fear I see the tank get hit with it 5 seconds later, so even the immunity portion isn't actually working. Make this spell better please. (Or at least make it work.)2: I agree completely that Dogdog needs to be ACTUALLY immune to AOE's, that or give me YET ANOTHER AA line replacement please.3: Haven't gotten any VP gear yet, but would definitely like to see it fit our Hybrid role class.4: No comment on the debuffs. I got all mine on the way up, and I still see people raiding KoS all the time. (Bloodlines spells are another story, that and Tier6 ancients.. good lord.)5: I only use Oberon when I need a fresh beer.6: The Epic SHOULD absolutely be a spear, for both Shamans. I've posted this before, but I'll post it again. We're a Hybrid class, capable of great DPS and great healing. Our Epic should be the embodiment of that, and thus should have the option to be a 1 handed healer item or a 2 handed DPS item. (MaKe it a clicky so we can switch based on which group we find ourselves in.)7: AA's. Drop the Rez tree and the Cure tree. Give me a heal tree instead (I'd even take an enhanced debuff tree over the rez tree) and replace the cure tree completely. Give me something I can put into Dogdog maybe. Make him tougher, offer more benefit to the group/raid. (Add spell haste, regenerating noxious ward, hit points, damage proc, group cure proc etc.)P.S.Calibalize should be a Shaman thing totally.
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Old 07-14-2008, 10:38 PM   #11
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:
5: I only use Oberon when I need a fresh beer.
I love it when I find new uses for spells on the forums SMILEY
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Old 07-15-2008, 07:42 AM   #12
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Personally I think the VP armor in it's current state is pretty good.  While it doesn't have any proc effects, there are a lot of peices with good stats/bonuses and the set bonuses are pretty nice.  It isn't get a peice and wear every peice of the set.  You have to make decisions.  Which I think is good.

My issues:

 1)  Ancient Balm.  Completely worthless.  Said this when they were making the change.  Will say it again.  Maybe useful in .0000000000000001% of the time... Aka it isnt.

2)  Our class specific AA tree still blows, and actually one branch is even worse then it was before due to cure changes.  Fix this tree!  Go back and do a real overhaul like you did for the shaman aa tree and make multiple skill paths viable.  As it is now, there isn't anything to choose from.

3)  If there are a ton of creatures that blow up the pet now with AE's then I would agree that needs to be fixed.  There is no reason to do that. 

4)  Look into improving the usefulness of OB.  Either make it cross raid or remove the stifle component.

5)  Slothiness doesn't really do that much.  I don't know if this was left as is for pvp reasons when the power taps for enchanters were changed or what.  But it is just a meh spell.  If I don't time the casting right then I loose more dps casting it then I would gain from using it.

6)  I reserve this spot to complain about the upcomming epic changes.  While I'm pretty confident that it will be nerfed into oblivion and near useless there is a tiny chance that is wrong.  Seriously if you are going to "fix" something, don't nerf it at the same time as you guys are doing.  You have never gotten that combo right in the past.

7)  Epic look.  It looks like a mountain dew can surrounded by twigs... Err yay?  I have only ever seen maybe two clubs that have ever looked good in my entire gaming career.  And that dates back to the 80s playing d&d.

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Old 07-15-2008, 03:02 PM   #13
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I thought I'd post for what it's worth.  My main has always been my mystic. I've always loved her, so much in fact that I can't play any other healer. My guild has every raid instance of farm status with the exception of Byzola in Hate (soon to follow though hehe). I have 5 of our VP set. I have the mythical.  I'm not bragging but I am letting you know basically that I see the high end raid stuff (with the exception of avatars and Tangrin).  My suggestions are mostly from that perspective but I think it'd help all mystics.Cures    Make herbal expertise apply to group cure and balm    Turn the wards in the cure line to immunities (minimum duration start at 10 sec and build up to 30 or 45)    Make the final ability in cure line group immunity (aka templar/swashy) or self immunity (aka inquisitor)   Dog    Make dog a heroic v  instead of vvv    Make him immune to all aoe/ae unless he's direct target    turn his attak (leg bite) into a lifetap for him/pwr return for mysticRez Line    Hardly use it - replace it with a debuff line that would decrease pwr to cast, cast time, recast time, add dmg component, increase debuff amount, etc.        *9.99 times out of 10 my "super rez" gets beaten by a rez from another healer or the dirges*Sloth    Never use it - not even on my hot bar - make it a dot w/a lifetap for the group or dot w/a Wis debuffBalm    Useless after cure change - make it castable under any control effect (stun, stifle, fear, mezz, INTERRUPTED, etc.) and on the move  only on selfOberon    Remove stifle, make it castable raid wideVP set gear    shoulders = Manawell not +20 in combat pwr regen    leggings = focus should be group heal    forearm = add a runic cover    helm = add casting speed (all spells)    boots = add attack speedepic    look = spear would be nice but defilers got spear and I don't think they made 2 epics look alike    DA = make ancestry affect the proc rate    Spirit Tap = lower the resist rate; make it proc off group dmg OR reduce the return  NOT bothSoW nerf = i use the crafter earring, this aa isn't worth any points imo; either replace it or make it faster againUmbral Trap    Where the heck do you get the master????? It's never NEVER been on the broker on my server. I repeat  NEVER.
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Old 07-15-2008, 03:27 PM   #14
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Banditman wrote:

2.  Fix dogdog.  Yes, fix him, he's broken.  It applies to Defilers too.  Look, we spend 24 AA's to get this thing to the point of usefulness, the only time we should have to resummon the thing is when he gets riposted.  If the dog has Spiritual Foresight, he should never die to anything besides a riposte or being at the top of the hate list.  Ever.  Period.

The wolf gets a nice fix with gu47.  At 80 he now has roughly 5500 hps without any aa skills and should do a bit more dps.  It's also one down arrow now instead of 3. The wolf's overall survivability should then be greatly increased.  Raid survivability is going to still be an issue since some aes are actually direct.  The ae auto attack found on some mobs in runneye is also considered direct but its easily avoided by having the pet behind the mob.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:34 PM   #15
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Aeralik wrote:
Banditman wrote:

2.  Fix dogdog.  Yes, fix him, he's broken.  It applies to Defilers too.  Look, we spend 24 AA's to get this thing to the point of usefulness, the only time we should have to resummon the thing is when he gets riposted.  If the dog has Spiritual Foresight, he should never die to anything besides a riposte or being at the top of the hate list.  Ever.  Period.

The wolf gets a nice fix with gu47.  At 80 he now has roughly 5500 hps without any aa skills and should do a bit more dps.  It's also one down arrow now instead of 3. The wolf's overall survivability should then be greatly increased.  Raid survivability is going to still be an issue since some aes are actually direct.  The ae auto attack found on some mobs in runneye is also considered direct but its easily avoided by having the pet behind the mob.
So as you find time to increase healer DPS we continue to let cloth DPS languish?
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Old 07-15-2008, 05:01 PM   #16
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As a guy who plays a warlock and a conj, I have to say it disturbs me that PEOPLE CAN'T READ THE TOPIC AND REFRAIN FROM TROLLING! M Y S T I C  C L A S S  I S S U E S! ! !

Now, as a guy who plays a mystic as well (and to avoid becoming a troll myself), I have noticed dog-dog getting pummeled into oblivion quite frequently in RE2, and I appreciate the increase in HPS (and single V is certainly better than VVV).

I really wish something could be done with our AA cure line and/or rezz line...non-raiders basically have no "choice" to make as those two aren't of substantial use.  With the consolidated cure, it makes a whole lot of points being invested for relatively little ROI.

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Old 07-15-2008, 06:22 PM   #17
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Its good fix doggy, when dog died from 1 proc byzola`s  damage shield its lol. But i think mystic need  more melee dps baff,  make mythic  proc constant baff, or add ca reuse on solo hp baff, this can halp to find mystic plase in raid, like temlap and inq.
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Old 07-15-2008, 06:25 PM   #18
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Skwor wrote:
Aeralik wrote:
Banditman wrote:

2.  Fix dogdog.  Yes, fix him, he's broken.  It applies to Defilers too.  Look, we spend 24 AA's to get this thing to the point of usefulness, the only time we should have to resummon the thing is when he gets riposted.  If the dog has Spiritual Foresight, he should never die to anything besides a riposte or being at the top of the hate list.  Ever.  Period.

The wolf gets a nice fix with gu47.  At 80 he now has roughly 5500 hps without any aa skills and should do a bit more dps.  It's also one down arrow now instead of 3. The wolf's overall survivability should then be greatly increased.  Raid survivability is going to still be an issue since some aes are actually direct.  The ae auto attack found on some mobs in runneye is also considered direct but its easily avoided by having the pet behind the mob.
So as you find time to increase healer DPS we continue to let cloth DPS languish?
Can you please also increase it's hit rates abit? Defiler here, and i can tell that against orange mobs it's tohit% is pretty low, leaving us without bonuses str line gives ( aoe immunity and group ward proc). Please make it hit mobs more often thanksSMILEY<img src=" /> Anyway I like to see this changeSMILEY<img src=" />
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Old 07-15-2008, 08:20 PM   #19
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Just thought i'd throw my 2 cents in on what the top issues are for me (i'm a non-hardcore raiding mystic thats cleared VP to give you an idea of where my viewpoint comes from) -
  • Cures (and in particular Balm) - I didnt mind the cure changes as a whole since i dont consider spamming cures to be particularly fun (though it's fair enough that they are a part of our skillset) but i'd agree that the balm line isnt particularly useful even with the change to it.  I'd much rather see a self cure that we could cast while stunned/stifled but on a much longer recast or even a single target immunity for 15 seconds to control effects (but that would obviously be very much like the immunities AA skill).
  • Mystic (EoF) AA's - Augmentation and combat lines are fine.  Cure line is very poor and the rez line isnt all that useful either outside of rezzing the noobs on Venril with enough power to stop them from being insta wiped again.  It is a bit of a shame that this set of AA's, unlike the shaman ones, are not particularly appealing and faiol to provide options accross the board.  Ideally, i'd like a debuff line and maybe a ward power usage/recast time reduction option (ie. some kind of healing enhancement option just to make it more difficult to decide which ones to choose)
  • Dogdog - Is fine tbh...sure i'm happy with the boost to his skills/stats/dps mentioned earlier in this thread but for me he's about where i'd expect him to be
  • Mythical - I'd have liked a spear but i'm not that bothered it's a club.  I can understand the need for a "nerf" to spirit tap which is clearly way overpowered in it's current form but like others i'm nervous about a possible swing the other way to it being underpowered...time will tell.  Other than that it's pretty decent but it is true that it gets swapped out for trash clearing when i'm dps'ing more which is a shame given the nice DA proc for the grp it has.  Perhaps a slight tweak to increase the dmg spread on it or maybe a few extra seconds on the DA proc might be nice.  If i was really greedy SMILEY i'd ask for the DA proc to fire of ANY spell (like debuffs) instead of just heals and the increase to wards to be a flat %'age rather than a %'age of your wisdom...but that'd probably make it overpowered again.
  • VP gear - The changes made to the VP gear not long ago were most definately welcome and the addition of a recast bonus on the grp ward is especially fantastic.  I partially agree though that there is so much gear out there that procs heals/power/wards/etc thats so useful for raiding that it's difficult to drop some of that for something like + 20 power regen.  Not sure how you fix that though....the VP gear is pretty good as is but i'd never replace the run etched helm from SoH with the mystic VP head piece given the hateshield proc thats on the run etched helm vs. +100 spell/CA dmg.  Maybe we need to think about temp adorments for armour that provide bonuses (and auto consume like poisons do now otherwise we'd be buffing all day) like overloaded heal and so on similar to the temp adorments for weapons??
  • Oberon Barrier - Would be nice if it's raid wide.....it's not something i use at all tbh so at the very least i'd say it needs looked at
  • Slothiness - See Oberon Barrier.  A power return to the mystic would make this very desirable....good idea from whoever mentioned it earlier in the thread.
  • Lunar Attendant - Bit surprised no-one has mentioned this.  It's got almost zero range and even less survivability.  At least, it needs a boost to range, healing power and survivability to make it even remotely useful.  If it gets all that then it's got some situational use....if it gets all that and the ability to cast it "on" another group member so that it follows them rather than the mystic (like the sentry does) and we're talking about something thats very useful
If i had to make a choice on what the top 3 issues were i'd say -
  1. Mystic (EoF) AA's
  2. Tweaks to 2 of out ancient teaching lines (Slothiness and Ancestral Balm) to make them useful in some situation at least (torpor/Stoicism is fine and imo well balanced)
  3. Lunar Attendant - Not useful at all right now
The other points re VP armour, mythicals, dogdog, etc... are much less of an issue for me tbh (though the more i think about temp armour adorments providing effects the more i like the idea SMILEY)
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Old 07-15-2008, 08:21 PM   #20
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There are a lot of great posts in this thread and I agree with most of what's been said.  In particular, I would emphasize the limited use of ancestral balm, the uselessness of the cure AA line, and the crime that the epic isn't a spear.  (The fact that it is the absolute ugliest thing imaginable only adds insult to injury.)  I am also really concerned about the upcoming nerf on the mythical.  Having just got my mythical I can see why it was viewed as overpowered, but nerfing it in two ways at once just screams overkill.  But we shall see.One thing I would add that hasn't been mentioned much is the lack of STR and +CA dmg on healer chain armor (although I know this has been discussed elsewhere).  I really don't see where changing the effect to "+spell and CA dmg" would be problematic, and it would make the armor more versatile.The one issue listed frequently in this thread that I disagree with is the complaint about the AA rez line.  I didn't like it at first and even refused to take it at first, I think because "shamans aren't the rezzers." SMILEY I can also appreciate the argument that this line is pretty pointless for non-raiders.  But I love it!  I can single-target rez lightening fast, I can rez people from distances no one else can, and no other class has a rez like Spirit Dance, which has saved us from a wipe many times.  Everyone in the raid knows to cancel their rez on my target once they see my Spirit Dance macro.  In general, I can quickly rez people all over the place without hardly interrupting my "real" shaman duties.My recommendation would be to replace the cure line with an "enhance debuff" line.  That would be something worth taking, and the non-raiders (and raiders whose raids never wipe SMILEY) could make use of that instead.
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:38 AM   #21
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Mystic 4 set bonus is the greatest of all set bonuses, getting a group ward pretty much cut in half is ridiculous. 
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:09 AM   #22
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I have to say I am really impressed by all the tightly focused and well thought out responses here and the respect everyone has shown for differing opinions.Aeralik OMG RARE SPAWN!!I would also like to thank Aeralik for posting here. I have played an mystic since launch and the lat time I remember a red name posting here was during KOS explaining why the Gaunt Totemic Hat was both mystic/defiler . Seeing devs with more posts on eq2flames than SOE own boards was a pet peeve of mine for a very long time. Glad to see you people have finally come to your senses about that website.Questions for Zelidog; how useful do you find the rez line after your guild has mastered an encounter? BTW because of your nice write up on the rez line I am going to respec and check it out myself SMILEY
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Old 07-16-2008, 10:36 AM   #23
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Sandain666 wrote:
Questions for Zelidog; how useful do you find the rez line after your guild has mastered an encounter? BTW because of your nice write up on the rez line I am going to respec and check it out myself SMILEY<img src=" />
It depends on the encounter.  For fights that run like clockwork it obviously isn't very useful if no one dies, and would be more for convenience than anything...if an overzealous dpser pulls aggro I can rez them very quickly, with a decent amount of health and power, usually without changing my own position.  However, there are occasions when the MT will still go down due to a unlucky very hard hit, and I can get him up quickly and recover.  Another big exception is Venril Sathir...although we don't have to do him much anymore, that fight has so much chance built into it, and Spirit Dance is the only rez that can safely be used, since it rezzes with 55% power.  To give you a sense of where I'm coming from, I'm in a casual raiding guild (we're one kill away from Trakanon).  So there are still dragons that are relatively new for us and there is an element of chance that seems to be built into many RoK raid encounters.  If we have a bad start and memwipe to start over, I can safely reach people who died within aggro range, I can reach people who got knocked into the lava, etc.  Once we can do every encounter flawlessly, I imagine the rez line might be less useful, but it seems like that could be said for a number of various abilities (e.g., memwipe, certain debuffs, etc.)  I think the rez line is a big asset when initially trying to conquer an encounter, which is exactly the kind of ability I like to have.
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Old 07-16-2008, 11:43 PM   #24
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All I want is the mythical left alone.  Who cares if its a spear or not.

All the other stuff matters little.  Any changes to the mystic class that arent a nerf are crazy.  A properly played mystic can go toe to toe with any healer class. 

Rather than worry about where we lack and how SOE can improve the class.  Take the time to figure it out yourself.  The dog is fine. VP gear if you dont like it dont use it.

Crappy AA lines oh well.  I remember when we didn't have AA lines.  There is no glaring unbalance to the mystic class.

Rather than complaining about 10 items complain about 1  the nerf to our mythical.

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Old 07-17-2008, 10:02 AM   #25
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TalonFett wrote:

All I want is the mythical left alone. Who cares if its a spear or not.

All the other stuff matters little. Any changes to the mystic class that arent a nerf are crazy. A properly played mystic can go toe to toe with any healer class.

Rather than worry about where we lack and how SOE can improve the class. Take the time to figure it out yourself. The dog is fine. VP gear if you dont like it dont use it.

Crappy AA lines oh well. I remember when we didn't have AA lines. There is no glaring unbalance to the mystic class.

Rather than complaining about 10 items complain about 1 the nerf to our mythical.

I MT healed our Trak kill just fine last night as well as our newly reset VP after.  SMILEYI'm very upset about our incoming nerf but I doubt me posting how devs should BUFF other classes' mythicals and leave us ALONE  would change anyone's mind. SMILEY
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:40 PM   #26
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TalonFett wrote:

All I want is the mythical left alone.  Who cares if its a spear or not.

Obviously a few of us do =p.

All the other stuff matters little.  Any changes to the mystic class that arent a nerf are crazy.  A properly played mystic can go toe to toe with any healer class. 

I don't doubt that a mystic can go against any other healing class just fine. The other stuff however does matter. If people had sat on there hands being content with what they had, I'm not sure that wards would function properly like the do now. They very well might be like they were when the game started.

Rather than worry about where we lack and how SOE can improve the class.  Take the time to figure it out yourself.  The dog is fine. VP gear if you dont like it dont use it.

I think most of the people who have posted are very experienced mystics and likely very good ones. I know I function just fine as I am, that doesn't mean that I don't see any room for improvement or can't see that something the devs 'fixed' isn't still broken.

Crappy AA lines oh well.  I remember when we didn't have AA lines.  There is no glaring unbalance to the mystic class.

Opinion, everyone is intitled to one.

Rather than complaining about 10 items complain about 1  the nerf to our mythical.

Why? These other things affect me directly. My guild doesn't raid high enough that I'll see it anytime soon, I choose not to participate in the server's alliance raid force and do not see the point in paying for it. By the time I see it (if I ever do) it'll be usable or outclassed. As I understood, it was pretty overpowered as it was. Just how the incoming nerf affects it has yet to be seen. It'll likely be a disaster and will certainly be less powerful than it is currently, but you have to play with it to see. I believe it only just got patched onto test server yesterday.

In anycase, I certainly hope the mythical weapon isn't nerfed as badly as it seems it will be, particularly when it seems every other class is getting a boost.

On to furthering my problems post:

I knew I'd forgotten about something. The attendant spells DO have a really short range. I remember back in labs having to run right up on top of the tank to make him useful. I imagine in some of the current higher end raiding he is pretty pointless due to how you have to be positioned.

I also want to thank Aeralik for stopping by =). I'm glad to hear our pooch is getting a boost. Hopefully that will make him better for longer.

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Old 07-17-2008, 03:31 PM   #27
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[email protected] wrote:
Mystic 4 set bonus is the greatest of all set bonuses, getting a group ward pretty much cut in half is ridiculous.
All it is is our eof bonus essentially the rest of the bonuses are horrible. Im pretty sure the dirge 4 set is the greatest coupled with there mythical. just saying the 4 set we now have is nice but it took alot of work to get it to there. We have 1 good thing compared to 99 mediocre/bad things.
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:57 AM   #28
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TalonFett wrote:

All I want is the mythical left alone.

Me too. But that is not going to happen so you had better face facts and try to work with the devs.

Who cares if its a spear or not.

Obviously you have not bothered to read months of feedback in the mystic forums.

All the other stuff matters little.

Your opinion and you are welcome to it.

Any changes to the mystic class that arent a nerf are crazy.

Honestly can't figure out what you are talking about here. Are you saying the upcoming change to SOW is crazy?

A properly played mystic can go toe to toe with any healer class.

I don't think many mystics are disputing this. What is your point?

Rather than worry about where we lack and how SOE can improve the class. Take the time to figure it out yourself.

SOE has been actively seeking out the opinion of the players as of late. If you don't want to partipate fine, but don't discourage other more experienced mystics from adding input and feedback.

The dog is fine. VP gear if you dont like it dont use it.

This is your opinion and you are welcome to it.

Crappy AA lines oh well. I remember when we didn't have AA lines.

So do I. Do you want a cookie?

There is no glaring unbalance to the mystic class.

Not many are claiming any type of glaring imbalance. Most just want our class to be the best it can be.

Rather than complaining about 10 items complain about 1 the nerf to our mythical.

There are 2 nerfs to our mythical:

1) it is being restricted to Group only

2) the heals and power bonuses are being reduced

Before you attempt to denigrate others make sure you get your own facts correct.

Sandain

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Old 07-18-2008, 08:00 PM   #29
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I'd also like to point out that our Weapon Mastery AA line doesn't appear to scale to T8.Is that intended? If so, that sucks.
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Old 07-23-2008, 09:52 AM   #30
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Considering the changes to Inquisitors ,ythical, I don't see why the mystic one needs a double nerf. Yes, it's very nice, but it doesn't add mana and hp for the whole raid, only for the mystics own group, and it's during 30 seconds of time, with a 5 min refresher.  Yes, it does procc off everyones damage atm, but how about changing one of the things, not both procc rate AND the heal/mana #.Compare it to Inquisitors mythical, with a 15 sec refresh cure everything and anything togehter with a groupheal, I wonder which of thw two mythicals would be considered more overpowered. With a jesters and Alacrity on the Incy, that clicky will be less than 10 s recast, and thats quicker than I can recast my own groupheal.
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