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Old 08-21-2007, 01:36 PM   #1
Jeramiah

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 Im trying this game out during the free time I got for buying (and quiting) Vanguard.  I've recently started to group xp (im a level 32 Coercer on Venekor) and it was not a good experience.  Combat in general is not very fun and so far it consists of nothing but targeting the monster and spamming every skill you have non stop untill its dead.  This is how its been for 31 levels and it was even worse during group/dungeon xp (monsters died faster, so my 10 million debuffs mattered even less). 

 I liked old EQ combat, where each battle was a challenge and bad pulls had you and your group fighting for your lives.. I remember critical classes running out of mana and backing up to sit down and regain some more, then rejoining the fight, etc. 

 I dont see anything like this so far in EQ2.  It is even worse then Vangaurd (the whole spam powers randomly per fight).  You regain mana so fast out of combat, there is no real incentive to conserve it during a fight.  I also dont care about most of my powers and "thinking" which one I should cast next.. why "think" about which one to cast next when you CAN CAST THEM ALL INSTEAD??

Please tell me now, from here on out (im level 32) is combat going to be the same old "engage monster and go down your spell hotbar, clicking each one as they refresh", as ive seen so far?

At least soloing I have to strategy "a little" as I manage multiple mobs, but in groups, I just blindly follow around the tank and spam my powers at whatever agros us.  VERY bornig.  Combat happens so fast, most of the time I have no clue what we are even killing, or what powers/abilities it has.

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Old 08-21-2007, 01:57 PM   #2
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Jeramiah wrote:

Im trying this game out during the free time I got for buying (and quiting) Vanguard.  I've recently started to group xp (im a level 32 Coercer on Venekor) and it was not a good experience.  Combat in general is not very fun and so far it consists of nothing but targeting the monster and spamming every skill you have non stop untill its dead.  This is how its been for 31 levels and it was even worse during group/dungeon xp (monsters died faster, so my 10 million debuffs mattered even less). 

Random spamming of your arts is generally considered a pointless waste of power. Particularly in groups. There are only a few things more annoying in a group than having to wait for the spell/art spammer to regen their power after a fight when the other members of the group are already sitting back at full ready to go again.

 I liked old EQ combat, where each battle was a challenge and bad pulls had you and your group fighting for your lives.. I remember critical classes running out of mana and backing up to sit down and regain some more, then rejoining the fight, etc. 

I can assure you, if you are fighting in an area that actually offers some challenge for your level, you'll see bad pulls, people running low on power (with no way to increase other than FT items and clickies, no sitting down mid fight like EQ1). It can become quite exciting when the tank runs low so can't taunt, the healer starts to run low and can't heal and the wizard gets agro and is trying to root park the thing.

 I dont see anything like this so far in EQ2.  It is even worse then Vangaurd (the whole spam powers randomly per fight).  You regain mana so fast out of combat, there is no real incentive to conserve it during a fight.  I also dont care about most of my powers and "thinking" which one I should cast next.. why "think" about which one to cast next when you CAN CAST THEM ALL INSTEAD??

Out of combat regen is nothing, it does nothing but reduce the downtime between fights (which is a good thing, no one has fun sitting on their duff for 10 minutes waiting for their power to come back). It is the in combat regen that matters (provided you are actually fighting mobs that are a challenge for your group). As I said before, spamming is a waste of power most of the time.  Power management is key for some classes. You play a coercer, so have your own in combat power regen buff, you will have less issue with power than say a mystic or a berserker.

If power is overflowing, chain pull. Have a puller is bring in the new mob before the old on is dead.

Please tell me now, from here on out (im level 32) is combat going to be the same old "engage monster and go down your spell hotbar, clicking each one as they refresh", as ive seen so far?

It really shouldn't have been a spamfest thus far. As I've said before, the key is to fight something that is actually challenging. Running around open zones with full group, nothing short of an epic encounter or an absolute horde of seperate encounters is going to be challenging. Running around in a dungeon at 31 in a full group that is designed for levels lower than yours is not going to be a challenge.

At least soloing I have to strategy "a little" as I manage multiple mobs, but in groups, I just blindly follow around the tank and spam my powers at whatever agros us.  VERY bornig.  Combat happens so fast, most of the time I have no clue what we are even killing, or what powers/abilities it has.

If you are finding full group situations to be so boring and you can't seem to get into a group for a zone that is higher in level,  try a duo or trio. Lowering the number of people in a group will up the difficulty even of easy blue stuff. If you are finding solo boring, try harder mobs.

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Old 08-21-2007, 02:15 PM   #3
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Thank you for the respone, as for the latest place I grouped (and had the experience I described), it was in Nektropolos Castle.  I was with an Assasin, an Inquisitor, and a Necromancer. (the assasin tanked) 
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Old 08-21-2007, 02:25 PM   #4
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Jeramiah wrote:
Thank you for the respone, as for the latest place I grouped (and had the experience I described), it was in Nektropolos Castle.  I was with an Assasin, an Inquisitor, and a Necromancer. (the assasin tanked) 
the assassin tanked? Talk about gimping his dps. SMILEY The inqy would prolly have been abetter choice if there werent large level differences.
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Old 08-22-2007, 12:08 PM   #5
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*shrugs* I'm not seeing any difference between what I'm doing now with EQ2 than what I was doing back on EQ1, except I have more buttons to push here. The strats are still the same. As a tank I still position my mobs away from my group so the scouts can hit them from behind. As a puller I still need to watch for what mobs are tethered together (though not as bad as EQ1 definitely where you can pull rooms). As a healer I still have to micro manage how I heal to make sure the group stays alive. Granted non heroic stuff in the game are really pushovers and to some extent some heroics, but there is plenty of content which are raid like, or have events (those I really get a kick out of) that actually does require you to really "know" your class and your group dynamics to win. I think the groups you are running with now from early on to up to that stage is basically a get to know your class better training until you start hitting these type of fights.
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Old 08-22-2007, 05:55 PM   #6
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To be real honest with you, the combat will generaly be the same untill the end.  Some fights will be more edge of the seat nail biters than others...but generaly during your grind to 70 it will be almost the same.

In a way, this is a good thing because the few good fights you do have will mean more to you.  I remember one time I had a group in Nizara, and our tank went LD on the named above the floor where you zone in, and did not come back.  It was a troub, warlock, necro, inquis & warden...and the 5 of us beat that mob just buy using roots, mez and range dps.  The fight took over 25 minutes, and was very close to a wipe on more than one occasion.

To me, if every fight is an epic battle of skill and wits, what do you really have to look forward to?  Sure, the repetatave grind gets old, but the good fights will be so much more meaningful to you in the end.

Good luck to you, and keep at it for a while...you might really like the end game.

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Old 08-23-2007, 03:03 AM   #7
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Op, you are 100% correct. The combat is way fast and spammy compared to EQ1. Where entire groups would pull one mob to kill. Karnors wall anyone? Campring a corner inside Karnors? Picking one spot out of an entire zone to pull to because by the time you killed a few mobs, they were repopping? EQ2 takes 0 skill to play. Bad pull are just idiots who pull to many mobs. Too many mobs being 6+, because I can take 4-5 normal mobs my level. I suggest you try vanguard after the server move, atm the only problem with it is the population is too low. However it has the type of combat you want SMILEY
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Old 08-23-2007, 10:33 AM   #8
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This game is moving towards Candyland.  They are removing Heroics left and right from overland zones, and the ones in dungeons are a joke.  If you want a challenging game then EQ2 isn't it.  Raiding is still fun for me, so that's the only thing that keeps me in game atm, I don't grp or solo at all unless I need cash.

But....people want instant gratification, easy mode, I win button, and this is the model that will bring in cash so there ya go.  Don't expect Vanguard or others of their ilk to be anything more then a niche product.

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Old 08-23-2007, 10:56 AM   #9
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Jeramiah wrote:

 Im trying this game out during the free time I got for buying (and quiting) Vanguard.  I've recently started to group xp (im a level 32 Coercer on Venekor) and it was not a good experience.  Combat in general is not very fun and so far it consists of nothing but targeting the monster and spamming every skill you have non stop untill its dead.  This is how its been for 31 levels and it was even worse during group/dungeon xp (monsters died faster, so my 10 million debuffs mattered even less). 

 I liked old EQ combat, where each battle was a challenge and bad pulls had you and your group fighting for your lives.. I remember critical classes running out of mana and backing up to sit down and regain some more, then rejoining the fight, etc. 

 I dont see anything like this so far in EQ2.  It is even worse then Vangaurd (the whole spam powers randomly per fight).  You regain mana so fast out of combat, there is no real incentive to conserve it during a fight.  I also dont care about most of my powers and "thinking" which one I should cast next.. why "think" about which one to cast next when you CAN CAST THEM ALL INSTEAD??

Please tell me now, from here on out (im level 32) is combat going to be the same old "engage monster and go down your spell hotbar, clicking each one as they refresh", as ive seen so far?

At least soloing I have to strategy "a little" as I manage multiple mobs, but in groups, I just blindly follow around the tank and spam my powers at whatever agros us.  VERY bornig.  Combat happens so fast, most of the time I have no clue what we are even killing, or what powers/abilities it has.

your 100 percent right.  but there is good news.  As you play you get used to it, start to see things a bit better..I was like you when i first started toostart to raid when you hit 70 and things get harder and your De-buffs are a need or you all die.  A boss fight can last up to 10 -15 mins, so, the game does scale up quite a bit...and you will lose all your power in high end fights.also, the next expansion RoK will finally address this issue.....I cant wait.  but you should not just be pushing any spell, ,,,there is a right order and a wrong order engaging a fight.  the bottom line is there is not a better game out there, even with this huge combat flaw, and RoK will consolidate spells so that should help.......get to 70 get in a raid guild and you will find a game more your liking,,,,
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Old 08-24-2007, 01:53 AM   #10
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[email protected] wrote:
Jeramiah wrote:
Thank you for the respone, as for the latest place I grouped (and had the experience I described), it was in Nektropolos Castle.  I was with an Assasin, an Inquisitor, and a Necromancer. (the assasin tanked) 
the assassin tanked? Talk about gimping his dps. SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />The inqy would prolly have been abetter choice if there werent large level differences.
Ah would have used the necro for tanking, with the right pet they can keep the attention of the beasties and if the Necro went down the right Summoner AA Branch they can also heal the group in a pinch (just don't let the pet die or the necro is paste)
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Old 08-24-2007, 04:08 PM   #11
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For a brand new, never played MMORPGS or has limited MMORPG experience, EQ2 is plenty challenging.  We have several in our guild that have proven that.

The problem comes in for experienced players.   You have been around the MMORPG world, whether you only played EQ1 or you have jumped from game to game, you have experience.   Certain strategies that used to be practiced and choreographed are now second nature and almost instinctual in these games.   Combine that experience with the simple fact that the game formula has not changed and you have easy games.

 No game since EQ1 has been difficult in any way.  Some longer than others, but time does not equal hard.  In fact, evnen EQ1 towards the later levels and having played it for years - was not challenging (again for those experienced gamers).

Now, that is not to say some dumbing down has occured.  That, though, is the current nature of the beast and sadly the current formula for MMORPGS.  Even the treasured Vanguard.  Played it, and guess what - not hard.

 Some have said in EQ2 if it is not challenging then you are not challenging yourself.  That is very true.  You have to push yourself.  EQ1 had the extra level of the unknown variable.  Blue did not equal blue.  Some reds were impossible, others were easier than greens.  Overcon undercon anyone?

 

Anyway.   Before saying a game is or is not too easy - try to put it into context.  Many of us are very experienced so pulling, aggro management, crowd control, power management etc etc is very natural to us.  Even EQ1 was not challenging when everyone knew what they were doing.   Things don't get challenging till things go bad.

 

Try grouping with some true EQ2 noobies, you will quickly see what  I mean SMILEY

 

Enjoy

 

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Old 08-24-2007, 06:42 PM   #12
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To make it exciting, play games while you go through instances/dungeons. Like one I do, cast before tank has aggro, so I can get some on me and see if I live. SMILEY Or the tank pulling 20 or so, and seeing if I can keep him alive. Makes you better at your class, and spices it up a bit.
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:37 PM   #13
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It seems to me that you are simply not grouping against hard enough content.

I would also like to say the eq2 stuff described "Picking one spot out of an entire zone to pull to because by the time you killed a few mobs, they were repopping?" etc sounds like a dull grind.. and in fact does occur in EQ2 if you are trying to work in areas that are actually at the top end of your/your groups difficulty level.

Of course if every mob/encounter/room you pull is killable easily then the game is easy. Thats a choice though.

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Old 08-25-2007, 09:41 AM   #14
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you can do what  I do as well to make it interesting.

/browser

 www.youtube.com

search: red vs blue

I just watch red vs blue while i play O_o then sometimes i forget to pay attention and drop below 50% hp! . . . sometimes.

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Old 08-25-2007, 11:13 AM   #15
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You're playing on Venekor - a PvP server....

Need some challenge? Start up an Arasai and slow-level your way up by disabling combat xp and leveling up on quests. Keep an eye out for the evil Qeynosians who hate the Arasai with a passion.

They've nerfed the mobs so much lately, I swear they want 6 year olds to find the game easy. Unless you do areas over your level, you won't find too much exciting with PvE anymore, but PvP rocks.

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