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Old 01-05-2007, 11:40 PM   #91
Badaxe Ba

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The other day a new-to-raiding guardian asked the raid group if anybody could spare some arrows, because he forgot to buy some......

and not one ranger stepped forward.  He asked a second time, and in terms expressing his confusion.  "Surely one of you scouts has extra arrows you can give me," He asked.  Still no response.  Then he said, and I quote, "Well if I can't get arrows from somebody, I'm not gonna go.  I can't afford to be buying arrows all the time."  Yet he had just spent the plat to buy himself a new lvl 60 horse just recently.

Only one word was heard then in the vent channel.  "NEWB........."

Since then no more requests for arrows have been heard.

 

Message Edited by Badaxe Bart on 01-05-2007 10:40 AM

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Old 01-06-2007, 06:00 AM   #92
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Now with over 100 posts on this thread and multiple other posts on older threads,I wonder if we arnt all just spinning our wheels.Does anyone think any of the Devs even look at these threads? Does anyone have any ideas on posting it in any other areas that might get more attention? All the Rangers Ive spoken to agree the arrow issue is a big one. Maybe not the biggest,but one we all feel  has a good liklyhood to be fixed with little spillover to other classes.With no notification the issue is even being heard,should we just move on to something else?Sorry Im just getting frustrated!Buaf 70 Ranger Befallen
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Old 01-06-2007, 07:32 AM   #93
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So there was a Dev Chat today, did anyone stop by and ask about the rangers arrow consumption?.. I would have myself, but as it happend it was in the middle of my raid SMILEY I hope someone did
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Old 01-06-2007, 07:58 PM   #94
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wullailhuit wrote:I vote let woodworkers make 100 arrows per combine and allow stacks of 500 arrows , but then I'm a woodworker who gave up making arrows as currently they cost more to make than I can sell them for and the time to make 2000 arrows is stupidly long.If it was 100 per combine I'd spend time woodworking and rangers would get cheap arrows.

Also make crafter made arrows noticeably better than vendor-bought arrows to create more demand. Then you can drop the price of vendor-bought arrows a bit (20% maybe) and still have a market for the crafted ones. Plus it would increase ranger dps a bit to partially make up for all those melee-only proc spells in the game...
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Old 01-06-2007, 10:05 PM   #95
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RabbitFly wrote:So there was a Dev Chat today, did anyone stop by and ask about the rangers arrow consumption?.. I would have myself, but as it happend it was in the middle of my raid SMILEY I hope someone did

There was a dev chat?
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Old 01-07-2007, 03:34 AM   #96
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RabbitFly wrote:So there was a Dev Chat today, did anyone stop by and ask about the rangers arrow consumption?.. I would have myself, but as it happend it was in the middle of my raid SMILEY I hope someone did

No, because I wasn't interested in subscribing to their ploy to download the Pirates client just to go to a dev chat involving EQ2.
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Old 01-07-2007, 11:33 AM   #97
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How about this, i thought of a good idea, cause the devs in eq1 regretted adding in endless quiver, but make something like it, like say maybe a buff that say gives you a 50% to not actually use an arrow in your invetory every time you fire one, or maybe a summon arrow proc. Anything like that but i figured the buff would be more realistic in this game instead of shooting an arrow and ending up with like 10.

Any thoughts?

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Old 01-08-2007, 10:05 PM   #98
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forgive me if i missed something in this thread but last night i thought of a way to fix the summoned arrow tier problem. i thought of it when my necro leveled and i had to resummon my pet cause he was 1 level lower now. why cant summoned arrows be like that. they are whatever level you are when you summon them. this not only fixes it for existing tiers but also fixes it for tiers not added yet.
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Old 01-09-2007, 03:17 AM   #99
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Bottom line, as someone already posted, is this: Other classes do not have to pay for every potential hit they make. Other classes have greater or equal DPS to a class that does have to pay for every potential hit.The only way to balance, really balance, is to take away the cost. Period. There's no reason we should have to pay. The only other way to balance is to make it so that rangers are superior, bar none, in DPS to every single class that doesn't have this cost associated with their CA's (and we all know that's never gonna fly).Something folks are forgetting when they bring up Endless Quiver is that EQ1 was not designed for ranged combat. The EQ1 ranger was almost completely a melee class, with some spells tossed in. In fact, prior to the release of the first expansion, the ranger was basically a WARRIOR/druid hybrid, not a rogue. We didn't get any significant ranged damage until quite late in the game, and only after dumping 100's of AA points into it, plus, there was no power cost for using arrows.We already have a system in place to prevent unlimited CA casting. It's called the power bar.
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Old 01-09-2007, 04:36 AM   #100
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kartikeya wrote:
Bottom line, as someone already posted, is this: Other classes do not have to pay for every potential hit they make. Other classes have greater or equal DPS to a class that does have to pay for every potential hit.

The only way to balance, really balance, is to take away the cost. Period. There's no reason we should have to pay. The only other way to balance is to make it so that rangers are superior, bar none, in DPS to every single class that doesn't have this cost associated with their CA's (and we all know that's never gonna fly).

Something folks are forgetting when they bring up Endless Quiver is that EQ1 was not designed for ranged combat. The EQ1 ranger was almost completely a melee class, with some spells tossed in. In fact, prior to the release of the first expansion, the ranger was basically a WARRIOR/druid hybrid, not a rogue. We didn't get any significant ranged damage until quite late in the game, and only after dumping 100's of AA points into it, plus, there was no power cost for using arrows.

We already have a system in place to prevent unlimited CA casting. It's called the power bar.


Well yes we understand this but the only ideas people came up with was endless quiver when if you go back to eq1 and read the posts they clearly regetted even having the idea of EQ. So there hasto be a fix not just hey lets make these arrows cheaper but maybe instead of carrying 3 million arrows on ya at a time so you can make a raid (and yes i am way over exaggerating that) you can make some room in your inventory by increasing some way of recovery
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Old 01-09-2007, 02:45 PM   #101
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We hear you loud and clear on the arrow issue.  I've been playing a ranger myself since the beginning of EQ2 and raid about 4 times a week.  Arrow consumption is a problem that I experience almost every time I play.  Everyone has made some great points and I just wanted to let you know that we're listening.  As soon as I can come back with more news, this forum will be the first to know.
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Old 01-09-2007, 03:19 PM   #102
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Faith restored, at least for this ranger (who is more AFK than he would like at present...).

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Old 01-09-2007, 03:36 PM   #103
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Wow a reply - so there is a god! SMILEYWell, all we wanted to hear is that its being looked into.
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Old 01-09-2007, 04:29 PM   #104
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Rothgar1 wrote:We hear you loud and clear on the arrow issue.  I've been playing a ranger myself since the beginning of EQ2 and raid about 4 times a week.  Arrow consumption is a problem that I experience almost every time I play.  Everyone has made some great points and I just wanted to let you know that we're listening.  As soon as I can come back with more news, this forum will be the first to know.

Yayness!!!Thankyou Rothgar1 SMILEY
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Old 01-09-2007, 04:52 PM   #105
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Cheers Rothgar,  lots of rangers are now hanging on your words, waiting to see what happens...
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Old 01-09-2007, 06:07 PM   #106
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Finally SMILEY Rhotgar just made me a very happy ranger, oh yea I know wont be seeing any changes in a while, and I might not like what they come up with.. But all that matters little compared to the fact we know that you listen SMILEY
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Old 01-09-2007, 06:48 PM   #107
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WOOOOT A REPLY ON RANGER FORUM WOOOOT !

=D thanks a lot!

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Old 01-09-2007, 06:55 PM   #108
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Thank you Rothgar.  The fact that you see and acknowledge our concerns means more than you can imagine.
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Old 01-09-2007, 07:20 PM   #109
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Thanks Rothgar. Thats all we wanted, a little bit of info to let us know we weren't wasting our time here with posting and getting no response (well thats not ALL we wanted, we want the problem fixed too hehe).Please, please, please make it quick though. I am just starting raiding and dont want to spend all my money on arrows SMILEYCheersMonstage70 RangerTribal InstinctNektulous
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Old 01-09-2007, 07:23 PM   #110
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I've read a couple of the recommendations here that people just get their guild to raid DT and get the ichorstrand bow...  That's fine for some guilds but the arrow expense issue is hardly limited to rangers who do nothing but high end raids constantly.  Some of us are from small guilds and do pick up raids whenever we can, in addition to instance groups, etc...  We still have major expense issues and we realize that we're probably never going to get a bow from DT.  We still are expected to push as much damage as we can so taking the AA for reclaimed is a poor option at best and we're still paying through the nose when we need to buy ammo.Maybe the best answer is to fix a problem that hits woodworkers and make the ammo cheaper.  Possibly even make some Ranger only ammo with a much lower cost and Ranger only quivers with a much higher capacity.Regardless, the idea that we must take the AA is unacceptable and so is the situation where we're looking at spending huge amounts of money between poisons and arrows just to stay effective.
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Old 01-09-2007, 08:20 PM   #111
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Idea:  Add a decimal place to arrows for Rangers and every shot decrement it .1.   They go through way more than 10 times the arrows any other class does, but the cost per shot would be far lower... and they could carry more arrows.Make abilities use 1 whole arrow.  Normal shots .1?
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Old 01-09-2007, 08:56 PM   #112
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I don't know if this has already been said, I read the first page and some other posts and din't see anything. I am a Woodworker and want to make arrows for you guys to use. Currently each combine creates 25 arrows, it takes ages to make a decent stack and the cost for you is prohibitive. Woodworkers have been arguing about this for as long as Rangers have. Why can we not make it so Woodworkers can make arrows in bulk and at a cost that was more reasonable to you (ie even cheaper than the current vendor bought arrows). Bring the cost down of the vendor arrows at the same time. Also, player made arrows should be doing more damage than store bought ones but the general consensus is that they don't. I don't know if that is correct or not but it should be looked into. Ranger DPS is so dependant on getting the very best bows and equipment, player made arrows could help bridge the gap between that level of gear and the more typical stuff from instances. Using your skills to reclaim more arrows is one thing but I think there is an opportunity here to fix a number of issues if it is being seriously looked at.
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Old 01-09-2007, 09:18 PM   #113
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As an example, we had a guild group go to SoS last night to help some folks catch up on Claymore quest line.  At level 70, spending a lot of time in SoS is akin to pulling one's own teeth one at a time with a pair of rusty pliers.  Therefore, we just blast throuth it as fast as possible.  I was already at what I consider 'low' on arrows, as I only had about one and a half t7 rare quivers' worth.  Even using Master I Makeshift Arrows every time it was up, by the time we quit, I had 4 stacks of arrows left.  There's no way I'll be able to get through the week without buying arrows now.How about something like "Fill Quiver"Fill QuiverSummons one quiver of arrows.
  • If quiver equipped in ammo slot.
    • If no quiver equipped in ammo slot, summons one stack of arrows into the ammo slot.
  • Will not summon arrows outside of quiver.
Now if they really wanted to get creative, how about having the quality of the CA, i.e. Adept I, Adept III, Master I, etc. effect the level of the arrow.  For instance, App I summon level 60 arrows for the t7 version, level 63 arrows for the App III, level 65 for the App IV, level 66 for the Adept I, level 67 for the Adept III, level 69 for the Master I, and level 70 (yes, t8 arrows) for the Master II.That, in my opinion, would add something to the game.  Put it on some arbitrary timer.  Since it wouldn't put any arrows into other bags, the timer becomes almost irrelevant.Minimal impact on woodworkers, but if they really wanted to 'fix' wookworkers, give them back useful arrows to craft.  Magic damage arrows, cold, divine, etc.Not a perfect solution, I know, but I'm sure my fellow rangers can help out with this if they like the idea.

Message Edited by Zholain on 01-09-2007 11:21 AM

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Old 01-09-2007, 09:30 PM   #114
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While I do welcome a developer response I'm somewhat sceptical. After all it's been almost a year since something similar was posted with no action taken.I am fortunate enough to have an ammo summoning bow but the other raiding Ranger in my guild is not and the Amorphous Drake and Tarinax seem reluctant to drop a scond bow.Thanks for the response but after all this time I'd rather see action than words.
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Old 01-09-2007, 09:43 PM   #115
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Zholain wrote:
As an example, we had a guild group go to SoS last night to help some folks catch up on Claymore quest line.  At level 70, spending a lot of time in SoS is akin to pulling one's own teeth one at a time with a pair of rusty pliers.  Therefore, we just blast throuth it as fast as possible.  I was already at what I consider 'low' on arrows, as I only had about one and a half t7 rare quivers' worth.  Even using Master I Makeshift Arrows every time it was up, by the time we quit, I had 4 stacks of arrows left.  There's no way I'll be able to get through the week without buying arrows now.

How about something like "Fill Quiver"

Fill Quiver
Summons one quiver of arrows.
  • If quiver equipped in ammo slot.
    • If no quiver equipped in ammo slot, summons one stack of arrows into the ammo slot.
  • Will not summon arrows outside of quiver.


Now if they really wanted to get creative, how about having the quality of the CA, i.e. Adept I, Adept III, Master I, etc. effect the level of the arrow.  For instance, App I summon level 60 arrows for the t7 version, level 63 arrows for the App III, level 65 for the App IV, level 66 for the Adept I, level 67 for the Adept III, level 69 for the Master I, and level 70 (yes, t8 arrows) for the Master II.

That, in my opinion, would add something to the game.  Put it on some arbitrary timer.  Since it wouldn't put any arrows into other bags, the timer becomes almost irrelevant.

Minimal impact on woodworkers, but if they really wanted to 'fix' wookworkers, give them back useful arrows to craft.  Magic damage arrows, cold, divine, etc.

Not a perfect solution, I know, but I'm sure my fellow rangers can help out with this if they like the idea.

Message Edited by Zholain on 01-09-2007 11:21 AM



I like this. The timer would make it black and white though. Either it's short enough that you never run out, or it's long enough that you *will* run out before you can resummon. In the end the main issue is that we're a class that is totaly dependant on a limited resource to do our DPS. Take away arrows from a Ranger and an Assassin and we all know who's DPS will drop off the deep end and who's will not drop quite so much. I think it's the fact that with Rangers it's really a black and white situation when it comes to arrows will make this a sticky trouble to fix. My personal feeling is that they should look at other ways to make woodworkers profitable (I am a woodworker myself) and just give us something like a buff that allows us to recover a % of arrows used if they don't want us to not have to buy arrows at all. A good % would be able to make it so that Rangers spend roughly the same as other classes (like Assassins) on arrows.
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Old 01-09-2007, 10:15 PM   #116
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Yeah, that indeed is the biggest problem.  There's no way to judge what the 'proper' amount of arrows is, simply because different players will consume arrows at varying rates...the same player even consumes arrows at varying rates.  If they eliminate the impact of the timer, then it will seem too much like Endless Quiver.  Give assassins a summon ability...I certainly won't cry nerf.  They should have had a summon ability all along.As the system currently works, I honestly don't see how they can make changes without someone crying foul.  I too am a woodworker, but frankly I will never craft another arrow until they change the crafting process for them, or at least make the ones we can craft somewhat useful..  It's simply not worth it.
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Old 01-09-2007, 11:35 PM   #117
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Give us endless quivers and nice special arrows ala EQLive, fix woodworkers with something different, it's not like any of them (me included) actually ever spend much time crafting arrows anyway.
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Old 01-09-2007, 11:47 PM   #118
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Months and months ago I participated in a long discussion about arrows.  I still feel that the ideal situation would be if CAs could be made to not consume arrows but still proc all effects correctly.  Our consumption goes down to auto attack (yes more than other classes but a solution I could live with) and a huge plus is that it would make it possible for us to get the full benefit of higher quality crafted arrows if they are ever put in (another if).
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Old 01-09-2007, 11:59 PM   #119
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Anduri wrote:
I don't know if this has already been said, I read the first page and some other posts and din't see anything.

I am a Woodworker and want to make arrows for you guys to use. Currently each combine creates 25 arrows, it takes ages to make a decent stack and the cost for you is prohibitive. Woodworkers have been arguing about this for as long as Rangers have. Why can we not make it so Woodworkers can make arrows in bulk and at a cost that was more reasonable to you (ie even cheaper than the current vendor bought arrows). Bring the cost down of the vendor arrows at the same time.

Also, player made arrows should be doing more damage than store bought ones but the general consensus is that they don't. I don't know if that is correct or not but it should be looked into. Ranger DPS is so dependant on getting the very best bows and equipment, player made arrows could help bridge the gap between that level of gear and the more typical stuff from instances.

Using your skills to reclaim more arrows is one thing but I think there is an opportunity here to fix a number of issues if it is being seriously looked at.



a majority of our attacks use arrows as a component. without arrows we do less damage than a templar. so in order to be even somewhat effective we REQUIRE components to do almost everything. so why should we have to pay for using our combat arts? do wizards have to pay for every nuke they cast? do swashys pay for every stab of their sword? do templars pay for every heal they land? you get my point by now. there should not be a component for 90% of what we do. it's unreasonable to expect that we have to pay for everything we do. if you want to do a little experiment, next time you play your templar count how many heals you cast and then charge yourself 1 gold for every heal. when you run out of money stop healing and only debuf.
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Old 01-10-2007, 12:07 AM   #120
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Endless Quiver AA from eq1 seems to be a good resolution.
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