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Old 08-06-2005, 02:40 PM   #31
FelixDomesticus

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icetower wrote:
What will happen with aggro when its assigned to the priest?
 
Regen and reactive have a max value of hate capped at the value of the tick.
 
Wards have no such cap. If the tank takes a big hit or nuke on those raid mobs, thats a helluva lot of potential agro. Hmmmm.
 
Whats my faith in SoE's ability not to screw this up?

I have a nasty feeling that wards that Banditman found working very well will be considered as "overpowered" and diluted once again. That also makes agro problem worse. Banditman how removal of parry affects mystics? Is agro survival much harder now?
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Old 08-06-2005, 06:25 PM   #32
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Dragonrealms wrote:


Banditman wrote:
Yes, it did.  And it's becoming a REAL issue for Druids in particular who had some HoT components attached to help supplement a lower intial value to the direct.  The initial data I have from Furies in particular is quite alarming.




Only wardens can be alarmed by the removal of the secondary regen component because furies did not have this effect on their heals (they got buffs instead). I have yet to find any good info from the warden side with the changes though and the removal of the secondary effects scares the hell outta me =/


I disagree, Furies have real reason to be alarmed as well.  Current data indicates that their heals are SUPER low - as if a secondary HoT effect SHOULD be there but isn't.  I mean it's really really bad.  Check the worksheet, I believe I've got most of the Fury info updated in there and it is glaringly obvious.  SMILEY
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Old 08-06-2005, 06:28 PM   #33
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FelixDomesticus wrote:


icetower wrote:
What will happen with aggro when its assigned to the priest?
 
Regen and reactive have a max value of hate capped at the value of the tick.
 
Wards have no such cap. If the tank takes a big hit or nuke on those raid mobs, thats a helluva lot of potential agro. Hmmmm.
 
Whats my faith in SoE's ability not to screw this up?


I have a nasty feeling that wards that Banditman found working very well will be considered as "overpowered" and diluted once again. That also makes agro problem worse.

Banditman how removal of parry affects mystics? Is agro survival much harder now?



The one thing we have to remember is that as Mystics, we've been generating maximum aggro for months now.  Once we realized that Wards were ineffective, we started using direct heals, which have ALWAYS assigned their aggro properly.

So, while Clerics will have to learn how to deal with aggro, Mystics will find that aggro is not significantly different that what we've already been dealing with.  Certainly, it won't be any less, but it also won't be any more.

As far as a per tick cap on aggro and stuff because of the way Wards work versus HoT's or Reactives, once again, we've already been dealing with MORE aggro than a Ward can generate when using our direct heals.  Still no different than what we've been dealing with for months.

 

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Old 08-06-2005, 08:40 PM   #34
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I just hope our cast time goes back to 1 second if our recast time is going to still be 13 seconds.  To be frank I like the quick cast time and could deal with the 13 recast time.  But adding a sec to the cast time and not bring back down the recast time to coincide with Druids and Clerics major direct heal spells.
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Old 08-07-2005, 02:38 AM   #35
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Banditman wrote:


Dragonrealms wrote:


Banditman wrote:
Yes, it did.  And it's becoming a REAL issue for Druids in particular who had some HoT components attached to help supplement a lower intial value to the direct.  The initial data I have from Furies in particular is quite alarming.




Only wardens can be alarmed by the removal of the secondary regen component because furies did not have this effect on their heals (they got buffs instead). I have yet to find any good info from the warden side with the changes though and the removal of the secondary effects scares the hell outta me =/


I disagree, Furies have real reason to be alarmed as well.  Current data indicates that their heals are SUPER low - as if a secondary HoT effect SHOULD be there but isn't.  I mean it's really really bad.  Check the worksheet, I believe I've got most of the Fury info updated in there and it is glaringly obvious.  SMILEY

At least the furies get some small bit of help with that one buff that was changed to in combat regen (yes I know 89/tick isn't a whole lot, but it's still more than what wardens have since the warden equivalent to the fury +hpregen was a +pow regen and both those buffs were originally out of combat only). Warden regens ahve always been exactly the same amount as fury regens (except for lvl 50 one which furies don't have at all); the only diferences was that wardens had the secondary regens on directs (furies did not ever have this in any form) and wardens had two lines of defensive regen procs. My point was that furies didn't have this component and honestly if they got it and wardens were left wihtout, I would be very peeved about that, especially since they've already stripped wardens of their elemental buffs and given those to the furies, or so the one thread wardens have on their forums about the changes says.

What I would have liked to see was one druid class getting the secondary regen effects, thus extra stacking ability, while the other one got very large regen numbers with normal sized directs; idk if anyone else thought of that or would like it but I think it would've been fair. And by very large numbers I mean at lvl 50 have 500-600 per tick like you could get on eqoa.

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Old 08-07-2005, 07:23 AM   #36
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A few additional notes which i don't think have been mentioned yet. The prohecy line is now a 1 concentration point spell. Fading Spirit is no longer a self ward, rather a group cure poison/mind on a 2 minute timer... I hear that the bear form line is a 3 conc spell now, but I haven't confirmed it yet.
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Old 08-07-2005, 04:59 PM   #37
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Banditman YOU rock thank you for sharing all of this wiht the community!

My first choice of my toon was a gnome defiler! I just enjoyed the idea of a different way of healing till i started noticing differences in the power usage wiht teh exact same tank and the exact same encounter. So what did i do reroll? no not yet!

I made my defiler a provisioner so i could regen faster then other healers and didnt heal or ward the next battle till the tank was in yellow, and my powerbar was full again! This became very tedious to be almost oop every fight tho so thats when i decided to make a new toon and stash away my defiler (Shakes head yes i know, i got no backbone)

So i made a guardian and loved every second of it into lvl 50, Tanked a buncha epics soloed iceberg and some other powerfull named mobs which shouldnt be soloable and figured that this class was way overpowered.....

So i rerolled again, as a coercer this time with the only knowledge that they get charm! So i XP and XP and XP till lvl 37.6 and finally get charm and to my astonishment (i did have a lotta fun with it) the spell was broke as in keeping the buffs after charm wears off droppin all the hate that was generated my the MT and in the end it became an evac spell by collapsing the game to char select!

I still love my chanter very much and got her upto lvl 47 now, heck my guild loves her M1 clarity spell witha  60 regen!

Now with the revamp, They are kicking my guardian in the groin HARD

They are changing the meaning of playing a coercer totally (see the chanter changes) as in nerfing the clarity lines down to shreds and giving us some more cc and nerfing our mezzes But giving us huge dps upgrades! So not sure how that works out!

What makes me very happy is that i finally can play my first choice of class and race, my defiler, i love that lil gnome she is so funny and after revamp she will be immensily powerfull i hope just as powerfull as wardens are or will be after revamp since wardens just OWN the priests!

Soe you might have messed up my second choice classes but at least i got my gnome back, Thx a lot banditman for all yer good efforts and time ya put it this to inform us about the changes keep up the good work! /cry pinks away a tear of happyness!

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Old 08-08-2005, 03:24 AM   #38
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Yes, Ursine line is now 3 CP's, and thus, useless.
 
Even when solo'ing, its easier to just stick Prophecy/Omen/Auspice on and all your other buffs.
 
Avatar now uses a CP as well.
 
I'm a little miffed about that.  Either Avatar is toggleable or it's a CP, not both.
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Old 08-08-2005, 04:39 AM   #39
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Is it really a 33% decrease in DPS (mourning soul) Seems like a lot not that Im complaining...just afraid they giveth and taketh away
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Old 08-08-2005, 06:24 AM   #40
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aprilstorme wrote:
Is it really a 33% decrease in DPS (mourning soul) Seems like a lot not that Im complaining...just afraid they giveth and taketh away

It used to be, but I think it has been nearly halfed since then.
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Old 08-08-2005, 05:22 PM   #41
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Is there any hope of lowering the CP for the ursine line?  It would be VERY disappointing to have this line rendered basically useless because of excessive CPs required. SMILEY
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Old 08-08-2005, 07:05 PM   #42
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If "Avatar" takes a concentration slot does that mean it is now a group spell?

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Old 08-08-2005, 07:38 PM   #43
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Jaysee wrote:

If "Avatar" takes a concentration slot does that mean it is now a group spell?

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No
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Old 08-08-2005, 07:45 PM   #44
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Banditman, in exchange for this post I offer to have your children.

Thanks for giving me something to look forward to.

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Old 08-08-2005, 07:52 PM   #45
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Banditman wrote:
Yes, Ursine line is now 3 CP's, and thus, useless.
 
Even when solo'ing, its easier to just stick Prophecy/Omen/Auspice on and all your other buffs.
 
Avatar now uses a CP as well.
 
I'm a little miffed about that.  Either Avatar is toggleable or it's a CP, not both.

No spell is worth 3 CPs. Or if they are stats should be godly and I doubt that SOE will make it so.
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Old 08-08-2005, 08:00 PM   #46
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I must assume they are removing the Ursine line soon, it is certainly not worth the 3 CP's, or even 2 CP's.  It's basically just a Prophecy with added mitigation now, since the Maul effect has now been removed.  (thx SOE). Since none of us can afford 3 CP's for the minor mitigation, its a goner for sure.
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Old 08-08-2005, 08:25 PM   #47
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Just out of interest: are the fizzle and interrupt rates a huge in test as they are now in live? Some mobs seem to interrupt you with almost every hit.
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Old 08-08-2005, 08:44 PM   #48
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Banditman wrote:I must assume they are removing the Ursine line soon, it is certainly not worth the 3 CP's, or even 2 CP's.  It's basically just a Prophecy with added mitigation now, since the Maul effect has now been removed.  (thx SOE). Since none of us can afford 3 CP's for the minor mitigation, its a goner for sure.
This is sad indeed man.. just plain blows.  What is the point of it then?  Bear Illusion?  Come on now..
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Old 08-08-2005, 08:45 PM   #49
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Yes and no. Yes, I am getting interrupted a LOT on Test.  But in the end, it doesn't matter.  (Weird). I've been working over a group of mobs that consists of two triple downs and two double downs (new con system) with the encounter marked as a solo encounter.  I believe this is a L52 group, might have been 51, I just don't remember. Anyway, pre-pull I throw up Umbral Ritual and pull with Howl of the Ancients.  I try to do this from distance and queue up Fury of the Ancients right behind Howl.  This allows me to take some HP off so that the STA debuff portion of Howl is useful. The key is that Fury needs to land before the mobs get to me, because once they do I'm going to be spending the next 10 to 15 seconds stunned.  Once that initial flurry is over, the stuns pretty much stop.  It's pretty rare that anything aside from a CA will stun, and the mobs are blowing all their power in that first 15 seconds. In short, I'm not having any significant trouble solo'ing a yellow 4 mob group that is designated as a solo encounter. I did some small group stuff last night, with a Monk tanking and a 46 Ranger as DPS.  We were taking out ^^^ Heroics, ^^ Heroic groups and ^ Heroic groups. The ^^^ Heroics were no problem.  Monk easily held aggro and keeping up with healing was significantly easier than on live.  Wards were lasting at least 10 seconds, sometimes even 20 seconds.  Word of warning:  DO YOUR MANASTONE QUEST!  Power consumption is a major major issue! The ^^ Heroics came in groups of two, and this is where we started having problems.  The Monk was having trouble keeping aggro on the off target mobs.  The mob he had targeted was nothing, aggro stayed put, but the off target mobs were peeling to me. When we did the ^ Heroics we got groups of 3 and 4 mobs, and the peeling was even worse. In short, Monks, and I'm sure other Tank classes, are currently in need of greater aggro management tools for the off target mobs.
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Old 08-08-2005, 10:34 PM   #50
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I asked about fizzles as pure caster classes seem to have real troubles with them in live servers atm. It seems that SOE did something around Splitpaw live that increased fizzles and interruptions to alarming level. Based on my test with my warlock alt I cannot solo bears in TS anymore as they interrupt me with almost every hit. And when I do not get interrupted I fizzle. It is not that bad with my mystic, but still very clearly noticeable and very annoying if you solo.
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Old 08-08-2005, 10:38 PM   #51
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Remember, you can only fizzle a spell that is white or greater. Since spell scaling is going away, only one or two spells in your entire lineup will be white at any one time . . . .
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Old 08-09-2005, 02:35 AM   #52
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and the new slow at lvl 50 does????

thanks in advance,,,

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Old 08-09-2005, 09:14 AM   #53
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Could you expand on the power consumption issue?
 
If wards are lasting 10 seconds why would we be using a lot of power?
 
Also in relation to preferred healers, how are templars and wardens comparing in terms of keeping groups alive, and do they use similar amounts of power to do the same job?
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Old 08-09-2005, 10:42 AM   #54
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First of all let me say "THANK YOU" for your post (Banditman). I'm happy to read that the wards are basically doing what they are supposed to be doing all along, "warding". The thing that worries me, and that I use for soloing and dmg, is the reduction of the Ursine line. That extra maul helps, since I can't for the life of me find a spear that I would choose over a mace or a scourge, Another player mentioned that we will have access to "Great Spears", which might be nice if implemented properly. I already have shadowy attendent at Master 1 (can't use it yet), so hopefully the furry little guy will remain as useful as you have mentioned. I have a couple of rubies to make spells with and was wondring which spells I should upgrade (Im a lvl 41 mystic, close to 42 tho).
 
Thanks for all your info,
 
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Old 08-09-2005, 05:39 PM   #55
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Power consumption: While our spells now all cost less and do more, DPS has taken a SERIOUS beating in this revamp.  Not just Fighers, but EVERYONE's DPS.  Thus, combat now takes a LOT longer . . . and I do mean a LOT longer. On Sunday evening, myself and a Monk from my guild we killing some L52-L53 Heroic mobs.  The con system has changed considerably, they are listed as triple ups, but they are basically a 1 mob encounter that would probably be equivalent to what is currently a double up Heroic. This Monk is no slacker by any means.  Prismatic, Cryptic Reinforced Tunic, Sixta's Knuckles, etc. It took us, literally, 6+ minutes to kill the ONE mob. With the duration decrease on many of our spells, you find yourself debuffing repeatedly.  Howl is almost too much trouble to maintain over the course of a fight, Chimerik definitely is. I used my Manastone as often as I could, had a Translucent Clarity that I used twice, GEB's, Prismatic, Battlement of the Mind ring and still wound up with 30% or less power.  Your average garden variety Mystic could not have kept that up.  It would have wiped the duo. We then added a Ranger to the mix, and still wound up with a lot of down time in between mobs.  I was probably coming in around 40 - 50% power at that point, garden variety Mystic would probably have found the fight difficult but do-able.   The Ranger and Monk were DRAINED completely. I havent had a chance to compare myself to another healer in a real situation at this point, server population is simply too low.  However, there are still some fairly glaring problems with the balance picture.  The chart I'm keeping is still being updated, but you can start to see some alarming trends there. Our badger has been sent back to the useless pile I'm afraid.  Changes coming faster than you can track at this point. I might wait until combat changes settle a little more before deciding, unless of course you don't have Ancestral Aegis, Rejuvenating Chant and Enlightened Healing at Adept 3.  Those are your three big ones for that tier.

Message Edited by Banditman on 08-09-2005 09:40 AM

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Old 08-09-2005, 10:11 PM   #56
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Questions for Banditman:

So what is the overall feel of the changes to Mystics?  Good, Bad or Meh? 

Wards and Heals seem to be great and good respectively from the posts I see here.  Would you agree?

Buffs are not changed considerably except for the nerfing of a couple? (Prophetic Guard) 

What about the rumored changes to melee DPS (supposed to be boosted) and Armor/Sheild values?  Are you getting hit less often but harder?  More often but for less?  Are you happy with the increased DPS you're getting off your weapon?

The Ursine forms change is a freaking nightmare.  That's the defining "self-only" spell for the class.  I don't go anywhere without bear form up.  Nerfing that is simply [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].  We need to complain loudly about this.

Have our Direct Damage spells been changed any?  I always thought the Grey Wind line was a little underpowered. 

Thanks for the fantastic chart, post and follow-ups.  You rock.
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Old 08-09-2005, 10:43 PM   #57
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Slainte wrote:

Questions for Banditman:

So what is the overall feel of the changes to Mystics?  Good, Bad or Meh?

Equal parts each.  Wards are good, though perhaps not yet balanced (still too weak perhaps).  A lot of our debuffs got smacked around and durations decreased.

Wards and Heals seem to be great and good respectively from the posts I see here.  Would you agree?

Wards work.  They are dead sexy healing now.  Minor Healing line is fairly power efficient for me, but I'm sitting on a Master 1.  Arch Healing is still inefficient but it does work.

Buffs are not changed considerably except for the nerfing of a couple? (Prophetic Guard)

I wouldn't go that far.  Runic Talisman is kinda messy atm, but potentially a superior buff.  Bear form got it's guts stomped out recently.  Prophecy is better, nearly to the useful point now, but needs some tuning to balance with what other Priests get in that line.  Avatar sucks.  1 CP + toggle?  Bogus.  Eidolic Mettle is pretty much unchanged.  Spirit of the Elephant is bigger stats now, considerably bigger.  Still not convinced that it balances at the end game due to the diminishing returns as stats get more and more insane.

What about the rumored changes to melee DPS (supposed to be boosted) and Armor/Sheild values?  Are you getting hit less often but harder?  More often but for less?  Are you happy with the increased DPS you're getting off your weapon?

I get hit FAR more often but for less damage.  When solo'ing, expect to spend the first 15 seconds of the fight stunned.  My melee is insignificant, even with a Prismatic mace.

The Ursine forms change is a freaking nightmare.  That's the defining "self-only" spell for the class.  I don't go anywhere without bear form up.  Nerfing that is simply [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].  We need to complain loudly about this.

It is being discussed.  Heatedly.

Have our Direct Damage spells been changed any?  I always thought the Grey Wind line was a little underpowered.

They now cost less power and hit for a little less in actual game situations.

Thanks for the fantastic chart, post and follow-ups.  You rock. np.

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Old 08-10-2005, 12:33 AM   #58
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Bandit, Did wardens/furies/defilers get a similar change to their form self buff spells?
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Old 08-10-2005, 12:39 AM   #59
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I have not seen it reported yet, but for some reason some Priest classes are being remarkably closed to sharing information. I personally think it would be better to get all the information on the table right now and make sure that balance is served across all sub-Classes in the Archtype, and that's what I'm driving for with that worksheet.  However, there is a lot of resistance to change, and a lot of unhappiness that is clouding the waters and making good information more difficult to come by than it should be. I can say that MANY abilities across all Archtypes are getting this "Three CP nerf" thrown at them, and no one is happy about it.  I personally can't think of any single ability in the game that is so ungodly powerful that it should require a 3 CP cost of the user.
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Old 08-10-2005, 04:45 AM   #60
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Ack! Why did they "nerf" the badger  pet (yet agian, is there anything that could be done about that?). I'm glad I did not waste any money on the Avatar Master 1 that is on my broker. As for Adept 3's I have Ancestral Ageis at adept 3, and Enlightened Helaing also. Rejuvinating chant, well the scholars are not making it and the price for rhodium and rubies on Najena are insane (about 3 plat). However if i survive long enough in Lavastorm, I'll try to mine some more rubies.
 
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