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Old 02-09-2006, 05:07 PM   #31

Join Date: Dec 2005
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At 1st I was like.... YES! No more sub-combines. but now im sorta leaning to... I'd rather see refines go away, or make mutiple refines at a time or mutiple subs and remove refines.
My main trade is a sage, thats my highest at 60. Making inks is reallllly tedious, and for app4's they all need to be pristine. Thats 3 combines that need to be pristine, reagent, dye, ink.... 4 counting finished product. As a sage, it will be extremly easy to lvl up that trade, or any scholar really. They have a ton of recipes per lvl. Most likely be able to make 1st pristines for xp up to T6 with out even having to make something twice, T6 might be iffy, prolly can still do it though, if not you'll be close. Although I find the inks very tedious to make, its still the easiest class, to me, to lvl up.. and will even be easier.
I also have a 50 provy. Removing sub-components for that I like. There really isnt that many to begin with anyway. I like to TS, but I dont even make my own food/ drink.. I still buy off of the broker....and I buy T5 stuff, cause i dont wanna spend that much on T6 food/ drink. So I could easily make my own, since thats what I use anyway, but I just dont like sitting there for 2 hours making a stack of food and drink. It doesnt feel productive to me. With the new way I'll definately take the 30 minutes to make my own food / drink even though I'll prolly buy the raws. I think my biggest complaint about just lvling up a provy is I never really know what im gonna need in advance, until you get a few lvls into it. I start out with 2 stacks of each provy raw, and start from there. Then decide from there what im gonna need more of, and what im not and what im gonna need a bunch more of. And plus, alot of the recipes arent even finished products, so you make a ton of stuff. You need to get about 5 lvls into a tier to get to some finished products. And you cant get rid of any of it, cause you might use it in an upcoming recipe. Usually I end up with about 4 boxs full of stuff, raws/ iterims/ refines/ finished products. Sure, I suppose I could organize better, and figure out what im gonna need..but I dont wanna make a full spread sheet of what im gonna need... I need this many items and it will lvl me up to this much... pfft, yea right hah.
And, I have a 40ish carpenter. You know, I could go either way, that trade doesnt bother me much. With the subs your making a bit of this,a bit of that, so it doesnt feel like it takes you that long. I think maybe why a carpenter doesnt seem that bad to me is I dont make all the subs in one shot. I do a couple books worth at a time. And it helps that I lvl up to the next tier, then I make one each of the tiers rare pieces, then one each of woodcraft/ thaumaugtry, etc. so Im usually around 3-4 lvls into the next tier.
And I've gone with a 30 armorer. Who I recently rerolled, cause he was good and my others are evil based, and couldnt mail/ share vault with them. Of course, two weeks later I found out that they were changing the mailing system, lol. Anyway, with my armorer, I'll be extremly happy to see sub-combines gone. To me, basically you sit and make subcombines, lots of them, then you sit and make finished products, lots of them, the same thing over and over. So, with an armorer, at least since im gonna be sitting making the same thing over and over, I'll get more xp from it then I would if I made sub-components, over and over. I hear armorers are getting more recipes, so thats definately a plus, will take away from the tedious part I feel when lvling up my armorer. I was actually even deciding whether or not I still wanted to do an armorer, until I heard more recipes. By the way, he only got to 30, as stated, before I rerolled... and it was already feeling really tedious.. thats not a good sign considering it only gets worse from there, lol.
So for me, im kinda in the middle somewhere. I think if they were to just make subcombines, maybe even mutiple at a time, and eliminate refines it'd be better off, less tedious feeling and you'll feel like you still are accomplishing something, and will still need some kind of organization. With the way its going now, it may feel even more tedious, cause you just make the same thing over and over, even though you'll be lvling faster.
I guess, basically, what I like least about crafting is the tedious parts. The new way, wont really eliminate that at all. Sure you'll be lvling faster, but you'll be just doing one thing over and over...except for scholar classes.. they'll have it really easy to lvl and you wont even have a chance to feel it being tedious, heh.
If no sub-combines are the way of the future, each class, each book, should have a pre-set amount of xp gained per book. This book only has 2 recipes, they should get more xp from those single recipes then a book with 15 recipes. But that would have a really generic feel and all TS's would have the same feel, other then making different items. 
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Old 02-10-2006, 12:20 AM   #32

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Does anyone know when this "one click cookie cutter" change is supposed to take place? Also what will happen to all the partly processed items I have saved and labored to keep in stock should someone need an item made? As a tailor I didn't realize the value of saving previous tiers of crafting items for later use until I was moving out of tier 3 into tier 4 so now I have four boxes of refined leather, thread, yarn, plates, cords ect ect .


I spent a lot of time and money stocking up on these items and hope they don't suddenly go poof when the changes take effect. I don't like these changes for a final product to be made but maybe they could combine the two systems to make all subproducts a 1 click process, instead of needing to make strips of leather for plates, cords, harnesses, binding I could process raws into the interm item and add a slide bar for how many you want so if I wanted 10 harnesses I'd need 10 raws, 20 fuel ect then use these as we do now.



Level 60 Tailor of the soon departed Oggok server

Message Edited by Jebby84 on 02-09-200601:22 PM

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Old 02-10-2006, 01:20 AM   #33

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Old system was grind harvest mass amount of raws, combine them several times to get to each tier of the thing your making then one final combine to reach the finished product. Took a long time in comparison with avid gamer play times. Not allowing many to balance adventure time with tradeskill time. This seperates the game in playability for many people which is what SOE is trying to balance out.New system still will require mass amounts of harvest time, just like before. What it won't then require is mass amount of time to get from combine one to finished. This cuts down the time required to actually make and build a tradeskill side of a character, which also in turn, allows for you to collectively build your adventure side equally well. This brings both sides into better balance, allowing more customers the ability to experience the game at its fullest.This all being said, I'm even one of those types. I love playing but man at times I just don't have time to work both sides and I'd love to. Before now I've only been able to devote time to just adventure, minus the very little trade skill needed for some quests. I've always had to depend on others for purchasing player made items, never having time to devote to any trades myself. This is a side of a game that really needed some tweeking. While this may not be the best way, its atm the most direct approach SOE's done so far which says something atleast. I admit this doesn't solve the whole issue but its a good base to start from for balancing both sides of the game.All this does is make it easier for already established tradeskillers to turn out items people ask for or hire you to craft, and makes it easier for others with less time to also begin to craft. Its not just a one sided game either. Players have two paths they can take and two totaly different experiences to discover. If SOE didn't make changes like this, it would handicap the game making it to tiresome for alot of people to feel or see acomplishment in playing the game, without spending days and months on end grinding for it. THis atleast allows for more player base to experience atlest some or most of each aspect of the game, without trying to juggle two serperate aspects of game play. Basicly what this does is not change anything for harvesting, your still getting the same things, but its greatly improves speed and ability to see progression in crafting. ALso greatly reduces time needed to turn out items for orders for all your mainstream crafters. That in itself should make you VERY happy. Also makes you have more business cause now people won't have to wait 1-2 days for items, instead in a few minutes you can pump out a finished product. And atleast then we can say well cost is worth the time for those items. Cause we all know, it costs alot to have 50 gnomes doing hidden refine and interm combines behind the scene for your crafting companies . . . i mean isn't that why yall all charge 100-200% above the average rare costs already?
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Old 02-10-2006, 05:22 AM   #34

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This bears repeating .. several times if needed :

Jebby84 wrote:

.....maybe they could combine the two systems to make all subproducts a 1 click process, instead of needing to make strips of leather for plates, cords, harnesses, binding I could process raws into the interim item and add a slide bar for how many you want so if I wanted 10 harnesses I'd need 10 raws, 20 fuel ect then use these as we do now.

VrenaLevel 60 Tailor of the soon departed Oggok server
Frostwynde, 46 Templar ; Oobadah, 44 Conjurer ; Cacheram, 34 Ranger ; Ghoulthane, 26 Necromancer ; Thugg, 24 Paladin ; Icepick, 24 Guardian ; Thyldor, 16 Mystic ; Abochein, 13 Warden ; Woodwerkr, 11 Fury ; Chumba, 10 Wizard.
Why so many? I used to tradeskill ...
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Old 02-10-2006, 05:56 AM   #35

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60th lev Armorer here . Feel like I invested a lot of my time and money into something that has once again been trivialized and dumbed down . :smileysad: I have been very negative on these boards of late because of just this type of thing . I have not taken kindly to many of the changes over appoximately the last 6 months hence my disgruntled attitude of late ......anyways reality has it that every change is going to have an effect it has personally been negative for myself and in the end SOE will find out if they did the right thing . I think this will chase  a considerable amount of hardcore crafters , the logic behind how this will add subscriptions I do admit eludes me:smileytongue: but hey  what do I know  i dont make a living developing games  :smileywink:   I wanted the game to be much more complicated  and they  are just going in a different direction .  The game I have been waiting for  will be out soon enough  and the crafting system  is better than this one  and will be fairly complicated so the hardcore fear not !

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Old 02-12-2006, 02:59 PM   #36

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I have read this debate with interest. Unusually I think points are being very well made from both sides. Perhaps that is because I am somewhere between the dedicated and casual crafter. I do a lot of crafting, and enjoy it immensely, but I adventure more.Crafting old-style is a very different game and fun in its own right, sometimes I want to sit down with a glass of wine or a diet coke, use my planning/organisation brain and relax into hardcore production. Sometimes a nice raid is fun and then other times soloing a few quests is what I am in the mood to do.Old-style crafting though was a bit tedious with the sub-combines.But one combo crafting would be more tedious, and I can't see many people turning to it as an aspect of the game to be enjoyed for its own sake.A 'middle way' has been proposed by many of the above posters. I think that is exactly the right option. Simplify sub-combines. Maybe allow batch combines for the lower order stuff. (Here's an idea - a bulk combine would take a bit longer and be a bit harder and therefore a bit more of a challenge than a single combine). This 'middle way' would make crafting more accessible to all players, keep the sense of axtual production, and maintain a fascinating and worthwhile aspect of the game.The 'middle way', I think, would result in the most crowded tradeskill instances. That would be the proper measure of success.I'd like to thank (most of) the posters above for one of better threads of this kind.
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Old 02-13-2006, 07:21 PM   #37

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A long time ago on a server far far away.... I made a Weaponsmith. One day I could not find any Stroma Wash... So I made an Alchy named Stroma. For the hell of it one day I made a Carpenter. All 3 are now level 60 along with My 60 Templar on the Adventure side of the game. I play on the Unrest server... Err scratch that I moved to Grobb... Err scratch that we are merging into Everfrost. How I feel... People where lazy before the tradeskill changes, people will be lazy after the tradeskill changes. None of these changes will change lazy people, if anything it will give lazy people more incentive to complain how hard the tradeskill system is (aka how lazy they are as tradeskillers). The current state of affairs... Let me put it to you like this, soon the forge will be nothing more then a book of matches to light a fire under your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and a chat channel to complain about it in.

I for one am for making the tradeskill system harder then it ever was. When the forge kills me I want to have to got deep inside the deepest dungeon just to get my corpse, I want to lose an entire level of tradeskill experience if I die.






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Old 02-13-2006, 08:22 PM   #38

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hmm yes to many with exact same can cause  a problem for a few players
what soe need to do in my view is make specific race/class recipes and make them limited or limited special rare
recipes as drops say 50 of a specific recipe  in that server ever spawned
and not at the same locations randomized place settings would enable a more fairer drop ratio among the players
this in my view would open up a huge diversity in crafting
cause atm  all of the same types of crafters have the same recipes and its the same stuff being made 
and doing just everyone able to get the same recipe will lead right back to here
even if its dif race types
but we will see what soe does and then it will come back to the forums on pples outrages or thankfullness
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Old 02-13-2006, 08:23 PM   #39

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This whole topic is extremely disturbing to me.  I have spent countless hours leveling up several crafters: 60 provisioner, 55 armorer and 43 alchemist as well as lower level crafters.  In the beginning, was crafting hard?  Most definitely... extremely challenging and took some getting used to, but that is what made it fun for me.  Not only was it challenging but because it was something that a large part of the player base was unwilling to do, for lack of patience or whatever, it gave me a sense of accomplishment and pride in achieving the higher levels.  With the amount of "competiton" I face on the brokers from other crafters, the crafting system is definitely not "too hard" for hundreds of players out there.
What I continually see in this game is a fun game with great ideas, not broken, and yet SoE continually trying to "fix" it.  Most recently, a server merge from a server where population was perfect: not too crowded, not too sparse.  Finding a group was easy enough during prime times and yet usually you could find the mobs you needed for a quest etc without too much competition.  Now after the merger, it is next to impossible to find a mob not camped, lag is so horrible my chat window is even delayed and crafting has become difficult since my crafting buttons don't even respond timely.  It wasn't broke, wasn't a need to fix it... but now it is broke (more to say on this but it goes in another subject post so I'll leave it at that for example purposes).
Now again, I feel SoE is trying to "fix" something that isn't broken.  The crafting system is the best in any game I've played so far because it requires some skill, some thought, and makes it difficult for botters to mass produce items (I know they still do it but it's much harder which means less do it).  By changing crafting to what they are proposing, crafting will be so devalued that nothing will sell on the broker at all.  Everyone will either make things themselves or have at least 2-3 guildies or friends who can all make what they need and just get it from them at cost or free.  Crafters need to be able to sell their wares to make some money back for all the money they've had to invest to be able to level up.  Especially at higher levels, crafting becomes very expensive with the cost of fuels.  My armorer at lvl 55 has spent over a plat in just fuels going from lvl 50-55 and it is already hard enough to sell items on the broker with all the competition; if it becomes even easier then they just won't sell at all.
I really like the idea mentioned in a previous post about GREY items only being one-step combines.  Anything you are experiencing on should still be time consuming and tedious.  It is fairly easy to level a crafter even now once you know what you are doing.  It shouldn't take several combines and a crazy amount of time to create a lvl 20 item when you are a lvl 50 or 60 crafter, so the Grey idea is a fantastic compromise I think and one I hope SoE listens to.
I started playing MMORPGs back during the EQ1 beta.  Played that for several years and since then have played or tried every single one that has come out since.  EQ2 is the one holding my attention right now and the reason is because of its complexity; dumbing it up will send many of us looking for new excitement.  This is the first time I have ever posted on these forums, just as a hint of how this particular issue actually grabbed me and motivated me to speak my mind.
One last thought, I think it is very unfair to the existing crafters who worked hard and spent countless hours leveling up, if they are suddenly no better then the post-nerf crafters who level up in half the time with half the effort.  IF SoE does go ahead with this change, which I still think is a horrible idea, then I think at the very least they should give special receipes to the existing crafters up to whatever tier they are currently working in so that ONLY they can create these items as a reward for their investment of time into their skill.  Some type of legendary very nice item that is varied by class or something to make it even more unique.
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Old 02-13-2006, 11:44 PM   #40

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Well it's obvious there are lots of similar and varied opinions on this topic.  We all know what opinions are like.....  so here is mine to throw it into the mix. 

First and foremost I have to say this change is as weak and thoughtless of the grey mobs agro fix.  SOE Devs could have come up with better solution than that, especially seeing that they have thousands of people paying them $15+ a month.  Simple solution that hurts everyone.  They are plenty of other options to nerf farming but they chose to quickest and thoughtless way.

Second, a crafter crafts because they enjoy the trade and get some sort of reward.  Same as the person who likes to be an XP wH*r* and level up fast, or the guild that likes to raid a lot.  They get a certain pride and sense of satisfaction from it.  Now even and the lazy idiot can get a crafter to level 60 easily.  So we'll be flooded with crafters who are lowering prices and hacking away at the market, while the people who made the effort to get there lose out. Just like a doctor who goes to school for 7 years and makes thousands even millions a year (depending on specialty), they deserve it because they spent the time and learned the trade.  Now in EQ2 terms, anyone who can buy a scalpel is considered a doctor. 

Third on a few servers rares are hard enough to get, or priced poorly b/c of harvest bots.  So now instead you'll see rares jump up in price incredibly high b/c so many people want them.  Now they'll either be a massive shortage with ridiculously high prices for rares on the market, or you'll see a ton more harvest bots out there collecting and posting. 

In all honesty, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, I've had a lot of problems with SOE.  Maybe it is just my luck, but I've dealt with it.  But to me, and I would hope anyone who actually cares about their money and type of game they play, I feel that the customers are getting the short end of the stick constantly by SOE.  We ALL pay SOE $15+ a month and we should be getting what we want, not what the dev's feel or think is necessary.  I believe they could do a better job listening to their customers weighing their options and actually putting more thought into fixes and patches.  (Example:  Blood of the Bear quest was broken for months.  A LU was done and SOE made no effort to fix it.  I read in forums constantly about how it was broken, among other quests at the time, and nothing was done.  Everyone I talked and knew sent in reports as well, some even more than once.  It wasn't until second update that they fixed the quest).  IMO this is money wasted on our part.  You have people that inform them that something is wrong and nothing is done.  Now I didnt expect them to jump on their horse and fix it that day, heck it was only a book quest.  But gimme a break 2 LU's just to fix a quest, we got hosed. 

I guess the sadest part is everytime someone has a valid complaint, in my experience, he or she gets flamed by the blind loyalists who support SOE.  Does everyone have trouble? No.  But common sense should tell those people who actual listen and read that some things should be changed and fixed.  Their Policies on certain things need to be edited slightly to be more consumer friendly.  Majority of the time from people I've spoken to get the same cut and past responses from the policies.  The CSR's don't even listen or speak to you like a person, but just say "Sorry for any inconvience, but that's our policy."  I guess until people start actively speaking out it will always be the blind leading the blind.  And we will have to deal with dumbing down of EQ2 and other games. 


*Let the flames begin* ^^

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Old 02-14-2006, 03:23 AM   #41

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Wartanker,  I'm sure you like the new changes because you don't have either the skill or patience to tradeskill, wow you have a lvl 45 artisian hehe good job.   Tradeskills take a long time to master and the crafter should be able to make some coin from it.  There is nothing wrong with a  person making a gold or two off of an item that took him 15 minutes and cost almost 2 gold to make.  The game doesn't just revolve around  you lazy wow playing want to be's who want everything either free or cheap.  Why did you quit wow and come  to eq II?  World of Warcraft is the definitive game for slackers who do not work that hard and is the best place for you and your kind.   SOE will never get the mass of idiots away from WOW no matter how easy they make eq II.  WOW has that niche all   SOE will do is keep losing more and more players until they shut eq II down - the server consolidation has already begun SMILEY  and only 15 months into the game :smileyvery-happy:  
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Old 02-15-2006, 11:39 PM   #42

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Being a long time player of evercrack.  Yes it is a complex addictive game thus the evercrack title.When EQ2 came out the tradeskilling was going to be it's own class and seperate from adventuring.  Well that pretty much went out the window as you were required to have access to the higher tiers of foraged raws to level your tradeskiller. Tradeskilling was done by a large portion of the player base as they wanted to test out the new unique system and try their hand at making their own products.  Seeing how complex and completely boring it was they quit tradeskilling and adventured pretty much exclusivly.Changes were made to address the interdependence, read stagnation, of the tradeskill classes.  Only one class depended on no one, the provisioner, everyone else depended on each other and there was one class that was needed by all, the Alchemist. Being the nature of this game, and so many other games, to make yourself feel important by having a great deal of gold, platinum in the bank tradeskilling became the means to this end.  Very few, IMO, crafters are in this strictly for the love of crafting, there are exceptions, I happen to know a few, but the vast majority are in it to amass wealth in game.  To be listed on the top 100 wealthiest players on their server.  How do they do this, well they are usually the first ones to grind to the top level of the new tier and then have a small window of being one fo the few capable of making the new recipes available to the players at large.  Or they find their niches developing consumables that they charge mid to high end prices for.  These same crafters are the ones that flame the heck out of players in game and on the boards for producing the same items for a lesser profit.  Or at times they produce items at practically no profit.  In the case of rare crafted items, I know of some tradeskillers attached to large guilds that have access to rares from chests they produce a batch at below the current market value just to [Removed for Content] off the uber tradeskillers that feel their hardwork is worth 1000% profit.Sony has attempted many things to try and bring the balance into both adventuring and tradeskilling.  Tradeskilling for the most part is considered the step child to adventuring.  Look at the progress we have made on homes.... very little although they are trying.  Anyway my point is it really does seem to me that the vast majority of people flaming sony for making this game easier are the very same people that are probably enjoying a very healthy bank account in game... again there are exceptions.  I would have prefered Sony put the batch processing in the game to address the absolute mind numbing process that was armoring.  But they chose to make it more EQ1 like.  Insert numerous items in the tradeskill station work it to pristine and you are done.  What is this ultimately going to do to the tradeskill society as a whole?IMO, it will probably bring the market down a little, not alot because I still maintain the vast majority of players will still not tradeskill no matter how easy it has become. Greed drives the market on my server, greed by the tradeskillers, greed by the player base, greed by the upper tier guilds that sell the few tradeable fabled items in the game.  Ect Ect Ect.As many ops have stated lets give this change a chance to be tried out and I believe Sony will once again make changes as they see the impact on the player base at large.For those of us that were not HARDCORE tradeskillers, we have level 60 tradeskill toons are very nearly have them and merely tradeskilled because we refused to pay the absolutely ridiculous in game prices for food, drink, arrows, spells, armor ect.  I believe this to be a very good change.  There won't be any more competion for the nodes then there already is, can you say bots?  Just look at the state of foraging ore in SS these days, its ridiculous already.  And provisioners?  Come on 10 to 15 gold for MCB please that is just ridiculous that is the kind of mentality that drives players absolutely nutz.So hopefully this will either bring the market more in line for the average player.  Maybe a few more folks will try their hands at tradeskiling but alas I think prices will probably stay near the same if not get worse and that the majority of intial players that go back and try tradeskillng will again be bored quickly with the mind numbing process and give it up before very long and those hardcore tradeskillers that enjoy doing will continue to do it and produce items that they will make money from.Why don't we ask for cooler abilities to be introduced into the game, like armor tints (not the neon BS that EQ1 became) but it would be cool to create player portraits, colorfull items that we could make more unique, the ability to change more stuff in your personal home, like walls floors ect.  Add some creativity to the game instead of just making super complex recipes that took you forever to complete.I personally think they put very little thought into the vast majority of graphics for the rare combines in all tradeskill classes that produce a unique house or peronal item.  Can anyone say Rare Portraits or Rare Rugs?  Here is a very expensive example of something that is not nearly as attractive and colorfull as their non rare counterparts in game... and yet very few people flame sony for that!!!!!Give it a chance, wait and see what happens, then if it crashes and burns come back and flame sony for ruining the game.  Adventure classes are experiencing the same problems that tradeskillers are ... Can you say LU 13 and the end of the supposed uber tank the Guardian?Any this is just my opinion as an avid player and crafter in EQ2.I am sure to get flamed for this but thats the price you pay to post your opinion.
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Old 02-16-2006, 01:08 AM   #43

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I had a lvl 26 provisoner and every time i went with my bags to create sub components for certain drinks or foods i cringed SMILEY.. and provisioner was one of the easiest ones.. Tradeskills isnt for everyone... I believe soe was  just trying to satisfy the majority ppl with what they thought might work .. Personally I gave those crafters who spent endless hours lvling up their crafts the thumbs up as it wasnt an easy task .. also why shouldnt they be able to charge higher prices for items after all they put the time in to make the items ??  If you dont like the inflated prices make your own =P...Isnt it possible to make a crafting system with different lvls of difficulty  ???
eg: #1 provisioner ... able to create all products by a one click system using raw materials .. products that have some stats but not as enhanced as #2 provisioner ?
eg #2 provisioner ... able to make complex products with special stats and special drop recipes  that only they can create
/my two cents .. rant on SMILEY
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Old 02-18-2006, 02:25 AM   #44

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Afterdark wrote:

A long time ago on a server far far away.... I made a Weaponsmith. One day I could not find any Stroma Wash... So I made an Alchy named Stroma. For the hell of it one day I made a Carpenter. All 3 are now level 60 along with My 60 Templar on the Adventure side of the game. I play on the Unrest server... Err scratch that I moved to Grobb... Err scratch that we are merging into Everfrost. How I feel... People where lazy before the tradeskill changes, people will be lazy after the tradeskill changes. None of these changes will change lazy people, if anything it will give lazy people more incentive to complain how hard the tradeskill system is (aka how lazy they are as tradeskillers). The current state of affairs... Let me put it to you like this, soon the forge will be nothing more then a book of matches to light a fire under your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and a chat channel to complain about it in.

I for one am for making the tradeskill system harder then it ever was. When the forge kills me I want to have to got deep inside the deepest dungeon just to get my corpse, I want to lose an entire level of tradeskill experience if I die.






Your looking for a game called Vanguard . Your gonna love it !! SMILEY  should be out in 6 to 8 month's cya there :smileyvery-happy:
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Old 02-18-2006, 04:30 AM   #45

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What's going on here? First it was Star Wars Galaxies, which after all that major changing has DROPPED on the MMORG.com list, now without learning from that, you are going to change all this stuff in EQ2 and you don't think the same thing is going to happen again? If at first you don't succeed (at driving all your customers away), try try again?
I just don't see the point. What is the ROOT reason for needing all the changes in a game that 's been live and fine for so long? Anyone seeing the same thing happening here that happened in SWG? Anyone wondering why they are making the same mistakes again? Anyone notice that the majority of people posting here like it the way it was and they are still going to change things? The same way people posted negatively about SWG changes but they still screwed with it anyway? Same crap, different game....
Okay, that off my chest, I like things the way they were, too. Having things easier to make is just going to flood the market, lowering prices, making it less desirable to take the time to make anything since 200 of that thing is available at 1/4 the price it used to be, so why bother making it yourself. I like working the different tables to get one thing. Even a backpack required time at the forge for the buckle, for example. So now if I'm going to be a tailor, there's no variety. I get everything, go to the same old sewing table, make my item in one event and that's it? I'm going to get very bored of this very fast when, again, 200 of what I want is available already at 1/4 the price it used to be. Leave this alone and put your attention on adding better things to craft, not changing the way we craft them.
(Primary) Renothian of the Feir'dal (Wood Elf) - Warden/Weaponsmith
(Crafter) Jobe of the Roekillik (Ratonga) - Provisioner
(Crafter) Horizon of the Humans - Tailor
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Old 02-20-2006, 02:52 AM   #46

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I think SOE has done the right thing overall when it comes to revamping crafting. Now the crafting system is easier than it was, but not as easy as WoW's crafting system is. So no complaints from me.
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Old 02-20-2006, 09:32 AM   #47

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Good article. A nice read. New system? We'll see...
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Old 02-20-2006, 01:47 PM   #48

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The change makes sense, and I'm looking forward to it.  The whole purpose of the subcombine process goes back to the original crafting system forcing interdependence of all the crafting professions---a system that, while maybe good in theory, broke down due to the greed factor.  People were simply unable to craft outside of guilds, not because they couldn't find anyone to make the components, but because the price people were trying to get for their spikes, patterns, straps, inks, etc., made it impossibly expensive to craft.  SOE was forced to address that issue or see crafting die out altogether, so they made it possible for any craft to make what they needed with woodcraft, apothecary, weaving, and geomancy.  Fine, so now you could make all your own combines, so the combines really had no need to be in the crafting process anymore.  They do not make it fun, interesting, or challenging....they make it tedious, period.  It will probably not want to make any more people craft than before, but if it does, fine.  If more people find that they enjoy crafting, fine.  I have a toon in every crafting profession, and have been crafting for fun, not profit, since the game went gold.  The main problem with crafting right now is that crafted goods can't compete with dropped or quested items.  Both RoninDF and Gnevil made very good points, and, since I like to adventure also, I would appreciate having more time to adventure when I'm done with my crafting for the evening.  Flame on SMILEY
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Old 02-20-2006, 09:09 PM   #49

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I think it is easy to see what happens.

EQ2 have lost a lot of subscribers, therefore the server merges.

SOE has done this serveral times in EQ2. Each time to many people whine or they loose X numbers of accounts they make the game easier.

I do not doubt that all EQ2 devlopers want, is to get all the 10years WoW subscribers to subscribe to EQ2 instead.

My problem is that im 33 and i have played EQ1 for 6 years and EQ2 since it got released. I DO NOT WANT A EASY GAME!

You do not have to make carpet quest to use carpets, bells to get to zones from your town harbour, timers have been reset on a lot of zones, or quests, mobs has been nerfed again and again. If you are lvl 50+ and do not have prismatic you are lazy, it is surely not because it is tough to get and about the same with prismatic 2 at 60. You do not  need help from other kind of crafters when you craft anymore, and now they are making crafting so easy, that you do not even need a brain... etc. etc. etc.

All to please the endless amout of kids who play arround the world. Not to plead the hardcore gamer, or very skilled player for sure. Average and easy is what count now. Oh and did i forget to tell that all this ofcause also makes it a lot easier for the exploiders or botters? SoE wants accounts and tons of dollars, not happy users.

I think there is a lot of other players like me. Grownups who want a hard challenging game, instead of a game for kids as WoW.

Wish SOE could realize that.


ps. Think it is SO fun when people write that Vanguard are going to change all this HAH ! Just wait and see....I have 8 years of experince with MMORPG's (EQ1, Shadowbane, Darkage of Camelot, EQ2 etc.) and it is going to be exactly the same in Vanguard. A ton of whiners and a lot of patches who makes it all easier.

Message Edited by Tryllekunstner on 02-20-200605:17 PM

Edidting again, since i saw some guy think that all who complains are the rich guys on the servers. Im lvl 42 sage and i have 1p52gold. I make all spells totally for free, so i get the exp. Only on adept3 spells i need people to add the rare themself.

Message Edited by Tryllekunstner on 02-20-200605:25 PM

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Old 02-20-2006, 10:55 PM   #50

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Arthais ... love your signature first off.  Gorgeous.

As for tradeskilling, here is my spin on it.

I have been around since beta, and at that time I never liked tradeskilling for the reason Arthais stated in his/her article.  At that time everyone really had to rely on someone else especially alchemists, and I didn't think that was fair.  So I never really touched tradeskilling for a while.

I then stopped played for a few months because I felt the game kind of hit a rut for me.

Coming back last month though, I am blown away by alot of changes.  The way adventuring and tradeskilling are different renewed my interest.  Now I can make a tradeskiller that can make practically everything I need at lower level and not have to pay an alchemist to make them for me.  So I made Ellistia a craftswoman to become a Woodworker.

Hm ... but now this new change.  I will honestly say I do like the change.  For me, I have trouble sitting for long periods of time not doing something ... um ... fun I should say.  Sure I could adventure for hours on end, but for crafting is another matter.  I do agree that they should have implemented a way for WORTs to be made in perhaps batches of 12 or so instead of removing them all together.  And I can see how throwing a few odd items into a 'magical bag' to produce something doesn't feel right ...

But I think the changes might help more people craft that honestly feel it is still too tedius.  As for market prices ... don't even get me started.  AB's market is outrageous on some things.  I admit I price a level 15 adept tome lower than the person who sets it at 1gp ... which I find ridiculous.

But I hope everything turns out okay in the end.

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Old 02-21-2006, 08:30 PM   #51

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Yep, Crafting may and probably will become more boring for some.  Others will undoubtedly enjoy it more, however.  Different strokes for different folkes, as the saying goes.  Myself, I prefer to adventure because I have a full time job in RL and often work overtime.  I have always wanted to craft and make some of the stuff that I need, instead of paying 4 to 10 times what an item is worth if I buy it from another.  Now maybe I will get the chance.
And no, I am not part of the casual gamer market that it seems SoE is trying to get a bigger share of.  I have played online games since UO, EQ Beta through the first 5 years, EQ2 from beta, and numerous other online games including WoW, SWG, Horizons....the list goes on.  The point I am making here is there does need to be a middle of the road for all players.  Not everyone is financially wealthy and can play EQ2 from server reset to server reset on a daily basis.  Since I am not one of those, and must work for a living, it truly agrivates me to play 3 to 4 hours a day, then take what coin I have finally made, and hand it over to someone else who has more EQ2 time then they do hours logged at a job or studying in college.  I want to be able to keep a bit of what I make and save up for more..not blow two weeks worth of saving coin on one over priced item from a marathon crafter.
Sure, not all are like that and some do charge reasonable prices, I have seen this myself.  But! ([Removed for Content]) The reasonable priced items never seem to be what I am needing at the time.  I only see decent prices on gear I have already over-paid for a week ago, or for a different character class all together.
Back to the real situation, however...
Diversity seems to be the biggest concern.  They are making crafting more simple, thus there will be more upper level crafters, prices will fall, people will fill the boards with even more rants because they cant get the coin return out of their hard work that they could before this update.. (whew! long sentence..need a breath.)
A few suggestions for crafting that I would like to see implemented..
More RARE drops of recipes... not saying take the current ones and make some of them more rare..but add more rare drops that are truly rare... thus when a crafter gets it, they are grinning from ear to ear as they run off to the forge/keg/work-table or whatever..
Add optional branches in crafting....  Sure right now, there are bow crafters, melee weapons crafters, and armor smiths already branching from the core blacksmithing class.  why not add skill points per crafting level and let the character pick if they want to specialize in say making, edged weapons or blunt weapons, polearms or swords/daggers, breastplates and greaves or pauldrons, gloves and boots. 
Could just as easily put branches in for the different types of spells: necromancy, wizardry, coercer, conjuroror, templar....whatever.  Any class could be branched to be more specialized.
The player could dabble a bit within their specialized field of say weaponsmithing, or could spend all their points unlocking recipes in a defined path.  Now, if that wouldn't make crafting better after this update that is simplifying the creation process, I am not sure what would.
Racial and/or Class specific recipes...  would also help a bit.  ie..  if you are a guardian who is an armorsmith...perhaps you could get bonus skill points or recipes that are only available to that combination.  It makes sense that, while a necromancer may be able to forge a breastplate, one who spends his/her time using the item on a regular basis might have a bit more insight into it as a whole.
Dwarves may make the best swords and hammers, but you can bet that a wood elf would almost certainly make a better bow.
just my thoughts..  =)
Now...I wonder if anyone will actually make it to the end of this post. lol
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Old 02-21-2006, 10:13 PM   #52

Join Date: Jan 2006
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Sorry to burst your bubble, while you level 60 artisans where expected to complain.. i myself as a newbie player suddenly got hooked on tradeskilling after LU#19.

SOE actually made tradeskilling fun! People in other MMOs keep asking me how this is possible. Sorry, its for the best of the community and majority that these changes have come.





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Old 02-21-2006, 10:20 PM   #53

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The crafting will still be just as boring... It is the same as it was before, but now we'll be turning out finished product instead of subcombines and finished product. If it takes as many combines to go up each level as it did before, I think this is a bad thing. Why do I want to make 100's of some finished product to sell back to the vendor? If it takes fewer combines to go up a level, I think this is a bad thing too, because it is too easy to level as it is. So, either way... I think this is a bad change.

I think having everything left the same except adding the ability to make batch subcombines would have been a better solution. It would have taken away some of the tedium which might have gotten more people into crafting, but left a more complete crafting system in the game for those that truly enjoyed crafting as it is. Oh well.


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Old 02-22-2006, 12:08 AM   #54

Join Date: Nov 2004
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why try mend something thats not broken,at the launch of eq2 i got the impresion artisan was like a class in its self the way it was u had to put time and efort into leveling your char and producing good items.As you have to do if you want to be an adventurer, so i took this path and spent most my ingame time crafting.through the months since launch ive seen it get easier and easier im finally starting to loose intrest in it and have a big feeling if it gets so easy i will quit it all together and just go kill stuff,and get my challenge from the game that way rather than chucking a load of raws in and pushing a button.

If crafting as it is is to boring and hard for peeps i suggest give it up and go have fun killing,let those who want to spend their time crafting do the crafting.peeps who say its to hard and boring to craft simply shouldnt be doing it,because if it gets any easier the only peeps u will see crafting are the moaners and groaners that dont mind doing something a 5 year old could do.while all the real crafters that could be are out having fun killing the mobs u could be doing

things on all levels in eq2 are getting easier as it is pls dont turn what i thought would be a game for mature peeps who want a challenge and put time and effort into things,into just another one of those games anyone 7+ can play.theres plenty of those games on the market already try keep eq2 unique u managed to keep eq1 going all those years so it does work

id be back to eq1 like a shot if it was running the same engine, graphics ect as eq2,i tried playing it but it just feels outa date now since i played eq2

eg: played eq1 over 4 years never crafted after like the first hour of trying it sucked always adventured,crafted in eq2 since launch enjoyed loads had my first level 50 crafter before i had a adventurer that was aroung level 20,harvested t5 at level 9 adventurer now that was fun hehe.Im now finding myself wanting to go kill more than craft because its more fun and more of a challenge.The easier crafting gets the less ill want to do it and leave it to those who want to do something a child would even get bored with after so long.

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Old 02-22-2006, 12:17 AM   #55

Join Date: Jan 2006
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Ok, here is my two cents worth.  I enjoy crafting.  I have two toons who craft and who are also my mains.  27 Assassin/31 Provisoner and a 22 SK/23 Armor smith.  My only complaint, before this expansion, was my bane Geocraft.  Nothing made me angrier then having my metal working skills maked and having my geocraft skills sub par yet not being able to create a piece of armor because the only recipie for it was bloody geocraft.  I dont know how many times I throttled my keyboard when a carbonite stud went south from pristine to ordinary.  Im a stickler for perfection and nothing less the pristine will do.  I've heard that they are getting rid of the annoying subcombines, but have had no word on the regular secondaries.  To be honest, as long as I dont have to fudge with geocraft I dont care either way.  If I cant make an carbonite stud using my metal working skills ,why the heck should I be able to make them using something as lame as geocraft.  I think before we start serving cheese and crackers to go along with the whine, we should wait and see for ourselves how this all pans out.  After all, if it turns out to be something you'd rather not do, then by all means dont renew your subscriptions.  I for one hope this will open up the market a bit and yes make those stingy rats out there gouging people realize that the golden age of "I made it, and you cant, hand over your plat" are gone. So just sit back, see what all the hubub is about before jumping overboard.

Message Edited by vikingthug on 02-21-200611:25 AM

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