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Old 12-22-2008, 06:03 PM   #151
Darkor
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I am not sure if a change to the fame system is really going to help us. Right now 50 % of the people i hunt down evac from me, not one of em is even remotely close to my fame range. What are they protecting?

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Old 12-22-2008, 06:07 PM   #152
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[email protected] wrote:

I am not sure if a change to the fame system is really going to help us. Right now 50 % of the people i hunt down evac from me, not one of em is even remotely close to my fame range. What are they protecting?

Yes, after having been taught to run to hold on to titles people have gotten so used to doing it they always do it now.

We need an incentive to stay and fight against the odds. And no, pvp writs isnt it.

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Old 12-22-2008, 06:18 PM   #153
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

DEVS, i know your reading this, please read this above post and realize Fame Decay is a negative thing and helps nobody and punishes the vast majority of the community and should be removed from the "ideas" box please

That is your opinion, which is no more valid than mine or anyone elses. Just because you dont like or agree with it doesnt mean it should be removed from the "idea box".

How about this, I dont like your opinion so maybe it should be removed from the "idea box" also since I dont agree with it. Wouldnt like that would you? Didnt think so.

So take a step back, come back down to earth and wake up to that fact, thats just all it is an opinion just like yours, so just disagree with it leave your reason and leave it at that.

hes right fame decay is a very bad thing

Sure for people who dont pvp and just like to stand around with a title that they prob dont deserve and run from anyone who might be able to take it.

Actually it would all depend on just how they were to implement it. For instance if every kill resulted in some kind of fame no matter the title is should work well, because in order for someone to keep said title, it would mean that they would have to actively hunt and kill everyone they can and not just people in there fame range their old fame range.

Aye, this is why I supported it under such a precondition mentioned in my plan for progress with fame and EQ2 PvP. Truly a good plan. You support it. Like Azekah & Olik. I know you over there, Wedge, Wytie -- you're totally thinking about voicing your complete support. Darkor vies for me as well, deep down in his heart...I know it (that Ulvhamne guy, too)! <3

Anyway not just one thing will fix pvp or the fame system it will take a few things all together that is well thoughtout with many things taken into consideration to work for as many people as possible otherwise we will be right back to where we are now.

No matter what they do if anything at all its gona have to have a balance for a gain to loss ratio and for server populations will have to be considered.(granted with the token system they didnt do this but should have)

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I am not sure if a change to the fame system is really going to help us. Right now 50 % of the people i hunt down evac from me, not one of em is even remotely close to my fame range. What are they protecting?

Darkor, as a Master Brigand with a Mythical on a dead Venekorian server, it's more than understandable that anyone left on that server probably knows you and therefore isn't readily willing to sacrifice themselves when odds aren't in their favor, especially when Brigands can safehouse whenever they want and disengage PvP at their whim. Maybe if your dedication was solid you'd have transferred to Nagafen! ;O I know tons of people who never claimed to be hardcore PvPers and they seemed able to shoulder the burden to experience the joys of a more affluent society. Though I do forget if you've Nagafenians or not. O_o

But, if changes were implemented as stated in my post, it's likely those evacuating from you would be more easily interruptible were the majority of thoes you've encountered to be scouts. Fame isn't just relative to the direct system of how you obtain or lose a hit, but rather, how it affects the whole paradigm of PvP and peoples' approach to it. If anyone critically considers the concepts conveyed in the post I recently parlayed, circumspection will show you to side with the stance that has thorough innovation as its inspiration.

May we all cheer with jubilation should our readers here give to me their focused ear as they read my initial post made here with points quite concise and clear. /cue_divine_hymn ([Removed for Content])

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Old 12-22-2008, 06:21 PM   #154
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[email protected] wrote:

I am not sure if a change to the fame system is really going to help us. Right now 50 % of the people i hunt down evac from me, not one of em is even remotely close to my fame range. What are they protecting?

Thats a good point.

My only guess is that they know they will die anyway lol and would rather not rebuff just yet.

But also I bet that alot of people always suspect the worst as in someone who can take fame might be able to jump in during the fight thus they run first and choose to fight later.

Everyone has engaged someone who wasnt in title range only to have someone who was jump in and leach just at the right time either it be by bad luck or a setup.

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Old 12-22-2008, 07:39 PM   #155
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[email protected] wrote:

I am not sure if a change to the fame system is really going to help us. Right now 50 % of the people i hunt down evac from me, not one of em is even remotely close to my fame range. What are they protecting?

I dont play an evacing class anymore, but if im out with a scout and i see a full group of mythicals or any full group, and were duo... we dont care about fame, but ill be damned if im just gonna give a full gank squad of mythical'd clowns free updates to get even more gear... Sometimes running and evac'ing aren't about fame, it never is for me and my group, its about knowing who and what you cant beat, and why give free updates to people that dont really deserve it, IE: 6 mythicals vs 2 non... or 6 vs 2 of any sort......   They want easy free updates and i dont want to give it to them, i make them earn their updates... im not gonna say "Hmm... i know i cant win, they get fame maybe, if they want it, AND they get updates for my class kill.... I think I'll just "stick it out" and try em"  Why?  thats re tarded.... and i know that people that have that mentality never get groups to PVP with, because playing stupid is different from fame hugging.... a 2 vs 6 scenario is not going to work out, so why try and die and get them the update... is that "pussin out"? Hell no its not... thats smart... cuz the more i do that, the more updates they get done, the more writs they get done, the more PVP gear they get, and when I do see one of em solo or duo vs duo, they will have gotten full PVP set off me and will pwn me with it... thats just re tarded playing...

So you ask, what are they protecting, im telling you that they dont want an Overpowered gank machine to get more updates and more gear and become even more Overpowered... that to me is lame more so then evac'ing for fame... is fighting a fight you KNOW you cant win and allowing that opponent to get updates and gear because of it and making him even more powerful for the next time you see him...

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Old 12-22-2008, 09:03 PM   #156
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People run from fair non-fame 1v1s to avoid leechers, who are IMO a worse problem than fame huggers.

I'd like to see encounter locking in pvp.

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Old 12-22-2008, 09:15 PM   #157
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Encounter locking would be a horrible idea.

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Old 12-22-2008, 09:50 PM   #158
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[email protected] wrote:

I am not sure if a change to the fame system is really going to help us. Right now 50 % of the people i hunt down evac from me, not one of em is even remotely close to my fame range. What are they protecting?

I think alot of people see a high tital and just evac on a whim.  Why bother fighting a master, or general if your just a lonley slayer.  You know odds are stacked against you, just from lookin at the tital.

Get rid of them, they force players to be dirty just to get or avoid a fame hit...

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Old 12-22-2008, 10:16 PM   #159
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Strums wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I am not sure if a change to the fame system is really going to help us. Right now 50 % of the people i hunt down evac from me, not one of em is even remotely close to my fame range. What are they protecting?

I think alot of people see a high tital and just evac on a whim.  Why bother fighting a master, or general if your just a lonley slayer.  You know odds are stacked against you, just from lookin at the tital.

Get rid of them, they force players to be dirty just to get or avoid a fame hit...

If players could gain fame from people with a higher title, they might be more likely to fight.

I think dropping the fame system would fix a lot of things, but would also [Removed for Content] off a lot of people.

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Old 12-22-2008, 10:17 PM   #160
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[email protected] wrote:

People run from fair non-fame 1v1s to avoid leechers, who are IMO a worse problem than fame huggers.

I'd like to see encounter locking in pvp.

Theres somone in my guild who was whining alot about leachers.

Its not somthing i'd would consider really big problem, more a small anoyance, but i have to agree with them on there solution to simply stop anyone geting fame for killing anyone outside there lvl range. Its simple and i dont see a single problem with it.

You could still show off by killing reds.... you wont get fame but its really all about ego

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Old 12-22-2008, 10:58 PM   #161
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lately i play sk - i know really op class this is why i look for challenging fights.

on 52 i killed solo 62 qs on 54 70 freeps and i continue like that. Now im 70 and i try to fight higher lvl solo. Today i attacked 79 fury and then was engaged by x2-3 of grey cons. Well with my way of pvp its hard to get high title but slowly u get some fame. Now i decided to engage in challenging fight and died to 1000 grey fame leechers. Basicaly to recover fame from this hit i need to kill 2-3 higher ranked players while solo. So where is reward for taking a risk? or now its just punishment.

Imo lock pvp encounters. It will help solo. It will prevent someone to jump in during long fights - like when we had premythical fight 6v6 with mythical onyx grp. Fight took so long (around 11 min) that they called for reinforcements and we were finally ganked by 10 of onyx. No more fame leeching or free token updates for all sort of campers. 

Ah and in combat evac should be penalized as well and a lot more then regular fame hit

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Old 12-22-2008, 11:50 PM   #162
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Locking PvP fights will just let people who dual box have free reign. Chance to get ganked? Hit a toon you and your friends keep nearby when things get scary. Either the simplified or complicated approach I advocate are honestly the most practical IF you want to make renown ranks have the MEANING or SIGNIFICANCE they undeniably deserve.

It seems like most people don't read my posts because they're too long, and that's a shame, cause, as any developer/designer knows (especially with expansion packs and Game Updates), it isn't always about what the majority stands behind (on terms of resolution), but what's the best for the game. What's clear though, is that the majority stand behind how the current fame system is a flawed detractor to a nourished PvP environment.

Though what would likely be best may be all that my first post mentioned (keeping it as simple as the situation might warrant), my second reply here looking to limit encounter engagements for parties when they're greater than 150% their opposition would handle a lot of the tactics that the playerbase frowns upon. Were my system to be emplaced, it would support more duoing/grouping, the type of small class encounters players appreciate.

As a side note, contesting raid mobs is broken, and though this change that I promote would drastically increase the helplessness raiders have when pursuing diety avatars, with guild hall strategist flags as there are (and the weakening of players that occurs when engaged in PvP as opposed to PvE), I think that end is moot, and that vying for the future of healthy contestable scenarios is vain.

What seems to be the case is that, when someone takes the time to read my post, they stand behind it as Olik and Azekah did. Plain, the only other person who commented on it, had nothing to say even after I pointed out that my suggestions observed precautions to handle ganking as well as current systems already integrated for token writs.

Though I am, at times, vehemently vocal, I think that, when reviewing the ideas I had for guild halls, the "what bugs you the most thread," I tend to be 100% on point. I don't intend to boast, I just want to ensure the area that requires the greatest amount of construction is molded under the most objective and circumspect perspective.

People will complain about how people even flee from 1 vs 1s due to their hypothesizing of outcome (or difference in priority), but what pursuits have they offered for gameplay's advancement? People who have come to their senses (maybe Peak and Pail/Wytie) acknowledge that fame decay would be operable if fame could be gained or lost by every party at every stage. This was something I supported in my initial post among tens of other things.

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

People run from fair non-fame 1v1s to avoid leechers, who are IMO a worse problem than fame huggers.

I'd like to see encounter locking in pvp.

Theres somone in my guild who was whining alot about leachers.

Its not somthing i'd would consider really big problem, more a small anoyance, but i have to agree with them on there solution to simply stop anyone geting fame for killing anyone outside there lvl range. Its simple and i dont see a single problem with it.

You could still show off by killing reds.... you wont get fame but its really all about ego

Keep in mind that Plane, while mistakenly thinking my system had overlooked some due oversight, is supporting a development of far greater detriment. I don't isolate him directly to antagonize, I simply support progress.

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Old 12-23-2008, 02:14 AM   #163
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[email protected] wrote:

I think we all know, and we all can say without a doubt, that anyone (as long as evac and running are in the game) who has a high title and doesnt want to lose it, will run no matter what... And yes there are a lot that needs to be changed in PVP, but i recognize this isnt the post for those things... this is about the Fame system and how flawed it is... Lets get back to basics, not what players run from others, or zerging, or evacs, etc etc... there are flaws in the PVP system that indirectly relate to fame, but lets keep this on topic... Fame System Revamp...

To me there is NOT ONE SINGLE argument anyone could possibly come up with that would tell me why a High titled person can fight free and clear of any fame loss vs a much lower titled person. This makes no sense in any Lore terms, in any Real life terms or in any make believe Candy Land terms... If someone who is known to be very good at what they do, earning themselves a title, whatever that title may be... and they lose to someone who is totally unknown, or who is known to be not that good... then the Person who was held in high regards loses MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more respect (fame) then if they were to lose to someone who also is held in very high regards... We see it all the time in Sports....

IE: Heavyweight CHampion of the World, boxing, if a "nubster" came into the ring to fight Mike Tyson in his prime, and won... in the current EQ2 system, that would mean nothing... it wouldn't earn him any "fame" for it... its just a no tallent nubster from nowhere Indiana beating one of the Best Boxers in the world... yet with EQ2 current fame system, it would mean that Tyson would just lose one "win" stat and go about his business... When in real life that would be HUGE for that little guy... he just beat the best of the best... and he would gain GREAT FAME for it... And Tyson would be the laughing stock of the community / world... IE: losing "fame"..... get my point?

This to me is the biggest flaw in the current PVP system..... which my method takes care of...

Now... the "gank squad" in the 6 or more vs 1 scenario..

My suggestion (using my chart) gives simple solutions to that as well...

The person is worth only as much as the lowest point value on my chart.... Meaning...

Your a Hunter, and you get killed by a group where highest  title is Champion... you lose 10 "fame xp"... thats it... your loss is 10..... your 10 points is split evenly to everyone who attacked you during your fight... so that means if another group or raid comes along with a General or Overseer...... now your worth only 5 points.. which is then split among all 25 people attacking you...  

Now using the "lowest point possible" system, this would elliminate the current fame system problem.. that being a hunter is killed by 5 Generals grouped with a slayer, and that hunter loses MORE fame then he would have if he had been attacked by 6 slayers!!!!  These Generals are supposed to be "the best of the best"  Why? that slayer was grouped with 5 Generals..... their "greatness" should drastically lessen the amount of fame that slayer would get from the kill.... as he would not have been able to accomplish such a task so easily without them... yet there it is... he doesnt have to split fame, he gets it all...  and that hunter, who was ganked by 5 Generals and a Slayer, takes a full fame hit because of it...

And you people say there is NOTHING wrong with this fame system as is?!?!?  Please.......

and on another aspect of it.. your fighting a much higher ranked group (or solo) and along comes another gank group or someone else and they toss in an arrow and you get killed by the General, but the solo SLayer had "helped" by taunting or shooting an arrow into you... you lose a FULL fame hit.....lame...

And you people say there is NOTHING wrong with this fame system as is?!?!?  Please.......

 with my system, you fought and loss to the General... the General - Hunter XP point system is used and you lose 2.5 XP which is then of course split between the 2 people that just killed you, so the slayer only gets 1.25 Fame XP points...

This would help with the problems with gank squads fighting against people in very popular areas (TG, KP Docks, ETC) as they would run the risk of splitting fame even further....

This would also help with the Raid fighting we see on DOCKs. as some of you know.. you fight there and you can get 20+ fame hits and go up and down between titles in a single "fight"... with my system... you die, your fame is split between everyone in everygroup that engaged you...  and vise versa... you do your "AOE taunt" and then hope for the rest of the raid to kill all the near titled people and you've just gotten 20 fame hits for one attack in a raid setting.....lame

And you people say there is NOTHING wrong with this fame system as is?!?!?  Please.......

This "lowest points on matrix" system would be fair for any given fight.. as a group of 5 Generals with a slayer attacking an overseer would have to split the General - Overseer fame XP (200) rather then the Slayer-Overseer fame xp (400).... and that Slayer would gain far less then if he were to solo kill the overseer... (as it should be, since he is with 5 Generals)...  

Lets get this straight.. this is a PVP server were talking about... questing is a neccesary evil and must be done... Keeping fame and questing do not really go hand in hand, unless your doing it in a large group, in which case your also a significant PVP force, so that really doesnt count...

Honestly people, get this fame decay lame idea out of your heads... As some of you know, even when  you do go out in a "gank squad" you can go hours on slow nights and only get a select few people, even if you actively pursue fights... if its a slow night, your still "PVP"ng for 4 hours and you can only find a low number of kills, your saying during that 5 hours of active PVP you should lose your title that you spent time getting?  Please...  especially on week nights when there are a lot of raid guilds raiding, and kids have to go to bed early for school, and working folks have to for work... but your on, cuz your a crankster and never log off, but there is nothing to kill, your to be punished for this?!!?   that is one of the lamest ideas there is, bar none...

Get this "fame decay" idea out of here, as thats moronic at best... it "solves" the problem with the very few people that never fight because of fame, and punishes everyone else that chase those people that are trying to actively PVP... lame idea for everyone that doesnt hug titles, which is the majority...

Fame Decay punishes the following:

-Everyone who ISNT playing on Nagafen

-Everyone on Nagafen who are among the following:

-those people who can only play during non peak hours...

-those people who are doing the chasing of the people hugging their titles.... (and thus cant get the kill because everyone evac's or runs from any glimpse of PVP)

-Title huggers (which isnt a bad thing but they aren't the only ones it punishes)

-Solo players who are out actively PVP'ng but nothing but gank squads and no title bots are around

-Small groups who are out actively PVP'ng but nothing but gank squads and no title bots are around

-Full groups who are out actively PVP'ng but nothing but title huggers, unraided multiple groups sitting at docks, and no title bots are around

-Every class that isnt a scout

-Scouts who not good enough to kill every full group out there

Punishes the entire community... = EPIC FAIL... there is no benefit to ANYONE with Fame Decay and thus Sony will definately see more and more people leaving the game because of it...

DEVS, i know your reading this, please read this above post and realize Fame Decay is a negative thing and helps nobody and punishes the vast majority of the community and should be removed from the "ideas" box please

+1 great post!

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Old 12-23-2008, 04:41 AM   #164
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I am not sure if a change to the fame system is really going to help us. Right now 50 % of the people i hunt down evac from me, not one of em is even remotely close to my fame range. What are they protecting?

I dont play an evacing class anymore, but if im out with a scout and i see a full group of mythicals or any full group, and were duo... we dont care about fame, but ill be damned if im just gonna give a full gank squad of mythical'd clowns free updates to get even more gear... Sometimes running and evac'ing aren't about fame, it never is for me and my group, its about knowing who and what you cant beat, and why give free updates to people that dont really deserve it, IE: 6 mythicals vs 2 non... or 6 vs 2 of any sort......   They want easy free updates and i dont want to give it to them, i make them earn their updates... im not gonna say "Hmm... i know i cant win, they get fame maybe, if they want it, AND they get updates for my class kill.... I think I'll just "stick it out" and try em"  Why?  thats re tarded.... and i know that people that have that mentality never get groups to PVP with, because playing stupid is different from fame hugging.... a 2 vs 6 scenario is not going to work out, so why try and die and get them the update... is that "pussin out"? Hell no its not... thats smart... cuz the more i do that, the more updates they get done, the more writs they get done, the more PVP gear they get, and when I do see one of em solo or duo vs duo, they will have gotten full PVP set off me and will pwn me with it... thats just re tarded playing...

So you ask, what are they protecting, im telling you that they dont want an Overpowered gank machine to get more updates and more gear and become even more Overpowered... that to me is lame more so then evac'ing for fame... is fighting a fight you KNOW you cant win and allowing that opponent to get updates and gear because of it and making him even more powerful for the next time you see him...

Most of the time i am completely solo, but thanks for the great explaination on why solos should evac from full grps. Now lets go back to my initial question. If they arent protecting their fame, why is it that almost everyone who can evac, will evac? I started frapsing some stuff, it boggles me.

PS: what is a mythical clown? Do you automatically become a clown when you receiver your hard earned mythical? Did i miss something? Do you have your mythical?

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Old 12-23-2008, 06:17 AM   #165
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[email protected] wrote:

I am not sure if a change to the fame system is really going to help us. Right now 50 % of the people i hunt down evac from me, not one of em is even remotely close to my fame range. What are they protecting?

Deep in your heart you know the answer, but I'll write it down for others to see:

People don't want to die. Dieing means losing and losing is a bad thing. It hurts the ego. Besides that with every death you might give a "pling" to someone's writ. That's bad, too.

With that being said, the whole server knows you. They know your class, they know that you have superb gear and your mythical weapon - and most of them have fought against you and know that they'll lose, even if they outnumber you (in a small scale). Like I know that I haven't the slightest chance against certain people, they do know too.

You'll never ever stop people from running/evacing (that's part of PvP and can be fun, too) but what SOE could do is making LESS REASONS to run from a fight. The "[Removed for Content], I don't want to die!"-people will run anyways but the title huggers maybe wouldn't if the fame system gets altered.

I very much like the idea of fame decay and getting fame from every legit kill and not get punished that hard for taking risks and losing a fight. It's hurting enough that you've been a writ pling and gave some fame points. Losing fame/infamy too is a bit too much IMO.

I only hope that - if fame decay gets implemented - SOE finds the right amount of time a title begins to fade. We have a lot of PvE stuff to do, even if our main objective is PvP.

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Old 12-23-2008, 08:48 AM   #166
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Encounter locking is a completely diabolical idea. But, that said, it's an issue for another thread.

The current fame system is messed up beyond doubt. The only people defending it are Darkor (an Overseer on a dead server), and a few other people whose posts are so riddled with grammatical and spelling errors I'd be amazed if the Devs took them seriously.

Seliri, I know your system was based on total kills. I too thought like that for a long time. Then I experienced the KP docks x10 v x10 Qeynos zerg fest with people racking up 500 kills a day. I'm sorry if your post had something to adress this issue, but tbh, It was too long and yellow for me to read completely.

One thing I know for sure, is PvP has steadily got worse and worse since launch because (and this isn't the only reason) more and more people are interested in 'the fame game'. It's no surprise the hardcore PvPers from the KoS/EoF era have left. Guild names like Darkhand, probably the most hardcore PvP guild EQ2 ever had, don't exist anymore. They're left to find games with a better PvP mechanic.

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Old 12-23-2008, 09:18 AM   #167
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I am not sure if a change to the fame system is really going to help us. Right now 50 % of the people i hunt down evac from me, not one of em is even remotely close to my fame range. What are they protecting?

I dont play an evacing class anymore, but if im out with a scout and i see a full group of mythicals or any full group, and were duo... we dont care about fame, but ill be damned if im just gonna give a full gank squad of mythical'd clowns free updates to get even more gear... Sometimes running and evac'ing aren't about fame, it never is for me and my group, its about knowing who and what you cant beat, and why give free updates to people that dont really deserve it, IE: 6 mythicals vs 2 non... or 6 vs 2 of any sort......   They want easy free updates and i dont want to give it to them, i make them earn their updates... im not gonna say "Hmm... i know i cant win, they get fame maybe, if they want it, AND they get updates for my class kill.... I think I'll just "stick it out" and try em"  Why?  thats re tarded.... and i know that people that have that mentality never get groups to PVP with, because playing stupid is different from fame hugging.... a 2 vs 6 scenario is not going to work out, so why try and die and get them the update... is that "pussin out"? Hell no its not... thats smart... cuz the more i do that, the more updates they get done, the more writs they get done, the more PVP gear they get, and when I do see one of em solo or duo vs duo, they will have gotten full PVP set off me and will pwn me with it... thats just re tarded playing...

So you ask, what are they protecting, im telling you that they dont want an Overpowered gank machine to get more updates and more gear and become even more Overpowered... that to me is lame more so then evac'ing for fame... is fighting a fight you KNOW you cant win and allowing that opponent to get updates and gear because of it and making him even more powerful for the next time you see him...

Most of the time i am completely solo, but thanks for the great explaination on why solos should evac from full grps. Now lets go back to my initial question. If they arent protecting their fame, why is it that almost everyone who can evac, will evac? I started frapsing some stuff, it boggles me.

PS: what is a mythical clown? Do you automatically become a clown when you receiver your hard earned mythical? Did i miss something? Do you have your mythical?

People dont want to be killed as they've learnt in this game by the rules that dieing in pvp is bad. The risk lossing money, items, dmging k vs d ratio, and sometimes losing fame.

I always think of a pvp death as worst than a pve death regardless of if i stand to lose fame. I'm not much of a fame [Removed for Content] i dont really pay to much attention to titles when picking fights, but if a single person whos not on recent, who i don't stand to lose fame on, got the jump on me i might still evac... (and run back slightly more alert)

I'd like to play a clown class though... maybe next expantion

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Old 12-23-2008, 09:35 AM   #168
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Wedge wrote:

Encounter locking is a completely diabolical idea. But, that said, it's an issue for another thread.

The current fame system is messed up beyond doubt. The only people defending it are Darkor (an Overseer on a dead server), and a few other people whose posts are so riddled with grammatical and spelling errors I'd be amazed if the Devs took them seriously.

Seliri, I know your system was based on total kills. I too thought like that for a long time. Then I experienced the KP docks x10 v x10 Qeynos zerg fest with people racking up 500 kills a day. I'm sorry if your post had something to adress this issue, but tbh, It was too long and yellow for me to read completely.

One thing I know for sure, is PvP has steadily got worse and worse since launch because (and this isn't the only reason) more and more people are interested in 'the fame game'. It's no surprise the hardcore PvPers from the KoS/EoF era have left. Guild names like Darkhand, probably the most hardcore PvP guild EQ2 ever had, don't exist anymore. They're left to find games with a better PvP mechanic.

I'm dyslexic so maybe your talking about me when you was dismissing peoples views on spelling and grammer.

Alot of people defend the current system because it works. People who pvp alot tend to get good titles and people who are acualy good at pvp do aswell regardless of if they play solo or in groups.

Classes need to be balenced more, things like zerging and leeching need to be fix and people have put forward good ideas on these issues. However the current fame system dispite if flaws is by far the best system anyones come up with.

As for seliri's yellow posts i find selecting all the text makes it much easyer to read.... just not follow

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Old 12-23-2008, 10:25 AM   #169
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Wedge wrote:

Encounter locking is a completely diabolical idea. But, that said, it's an issue for another thread.

The current fame system is messed up beyond doubt. The only people defending it are Darkor (an Overseer on a dead server), and a few other people whose posts are so riddled with grammatical and spelling errors I'd be amazed if the Devs took them seriously.

Seliri, I know your system was based on total kills. I too thought like that for a long time. Then I experienced the KP docks x10 v x10 Qeynos zerg fest with people racking up 500 kills a day. I'm sorry if your post had something to adress this issue, but tbh, It was too long and yellow for me to read completely.

One thing I know for sure, is PvP has steadily got worse and worse since launch because (and this isn't the only reason) more and more people are interested in 'the fame game'. It's no surprise the hardcore PvPers from the KoS/EoF era have left. Guild names like Darkhand, probably the most hardcore PvP guild EQ2 ever had, don't exist anymore. They're left to find games with a better PvP mechanic.

We do have a few high titled people on venekor and not once did i decline a fight, wether fame loosing/winning was involved or not. So you want me to drop down my title? come and do it, i'll be here waiting for you. But dont demand for it to vanish on its own because i worked hard to get it on a dead server.

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Old 12-23-2008, 01:39 PM   #170
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I am not sure if a change to the fame system is really going to help us. Right now 50 % of the people i hunt down evac from me, not one of em is even remotely close to my fame range. What are they protecting?

I dont play an evacing class anymore, but if im out with a scout and i see a full group of mythicals or any full group, and were duo... we dont care about fame, but ill be damned if im just gonna give a full gank squad of mythical'd clowns free updates to get even more gear... Sometimes running and evac'ing aren't about fame, it never is for me and my group, its about knowing who and what you cant beat, and why give free updates to people that dont really deserve it, IE: 6 mythicals vs 2 non... or 6 vs 2 of any sort......   They want easy free updates and i dont want to give it to them, i make them earn their updates... im not gonna say "Hmm... i know i cant win, they get fame maybe, if they want it, AND they get updates for my class kill.... I think I'll just "stick it out" and try em"  Why?  thats re tarded.... and i know that people that have that mentality never get groups to PVP with, because playing stupid is different from fame hugging.... a 2 vs 6 scenario is not going to work out, so why try and die and get them the update... is that "pussin out"? Hell no its not... thats smart... cuz the more i do that, the more updates they get done, the more writs they get done, the more PVP gear they get, and when I do see one of em solo or duo vs duo, they will have gotten full PVP set off me and will pwn me with it... thats just re tarded playing...

So you ask, what are they protecting, im telling you that they dont want an Overpowered gank machine to get more updates and more gear and become even more Overpowered... that to me is lame more so then evac'ing for fame... is fighting a fight you KNOW you cant win and allowing that opponent to get updates and gear because of it and making him even more powerful for the next time you see him...

Most of the time i am completely solo, but thanks for the great explaination on why solos should evac from full grps. Now lets go back to my initial question. If they arent protecting their fame, why is it that almost everyone who can evac, will evac? I started frapsing some stuff, it boggles me.

PS: what is a mythical clown? Do you automatically become a clown when you receiver your hard earned mythical? Did i miss something? Do you have your mythical?

First off, clows who have mythicals.... meaning they are clowns, and they are in a full group, and they have mythicals vs any of my toons duo = not gonna happen....  and yes i do have my mythical and VP gear on my Illy.... 

As for why people evac from you is the same reason they evac from full groups or anyone... just read my post... if they dont want to give someone an update for free they will evac... A fabled VP geared mythical carrying Briggand?  Those classes are overpowered as is, you add in that stuff and why would anyone want to solo or even small group you?  I dont know you, never played against you, but you seem to be under the delusion that briggands arent' the most overpowered class in the game as is and most people know even a decently geared brig will lay waste to just about any other class 1 v1 and you throw in the mythical and fables and what not and thats why you get everyone running from you... 

But back on topic... The bottom line is the current fame system is bunk and needs to change....  I gave up on titles long ago, as i would spend hours and hours, evacing and running and killling and ganking on my swashy to attain dreadnaught or General and get another 15 or so fame hits once i had them, and then take one loss and lose the title... its [Removed for Content] and its flawed and it needs to change.... 

I dont hug a title on any of my toons, i prefer to be no titled actually, so that people think im an easy chump kill and they get pwned in the face and wonder why... because titles certainly dont mean your good on this game, and they certainly dont mean you've earned them, and i think that needs to change.... I think it SHOULD mean those things.... when you can go out and in about 3 hours from no title, get champion and then lose it again... what does that mean? Titles mean nothing... they come and go with the wind, they dont earn you any special privies.... all they do is mean its harder for you to find a fight because people THINK your good cuz you have a high title... I find that having a low title allows me to get more updates and more kill because the group im in is lower titled, so you get a duo or a trio of "uber generals or masters" who dont stand to lose anything (because the fame system currently is lame) and they get pwned in the face....   would they have turned to fight us if we had equal titles or they stood to lose fame? no... so i would lose out on a revamp of the Fame system, because I dont personally care about titles and think i get more kills because there is no equality in the fame system... but it is fundamentally flawed and i dont like parts of this game that are so screwed up that they get a weekly 10+ page post and it doesnt get fixed...   fame decay is still lame and if they want to change to fame decay id rather see it not change at all....  cant fix broke with something more broke...

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Old 12-23-2008, 01:47 PM   #171
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I am not sure if a change to the fame system is really going to help us. Right now 50 % of the people i hunt down evac from me, not one of em is even remotely close to my fame range. What are they protecting?

I dont play an evacing class anymore, but if im out with a scout and i see a full group of mythicals or any full group, and were duo... we dont care about fame, but ill be damned if im just gonna give a full gank squad of mythical'd clowns free updates to get even more gear... Sometimes running and evac'ing aren't about fame, it never is for me and my group, its about knowing who and what you cant beat, and why give free updates to people that dont really deserve it, IE: 6 mythicals vs 2 non... or 6 vs 2 of any sort......   They want easy free updates and i dont want to give it to them, i make them earn their updates... im not gonna say "Hmm... i know i cant win, they get fame maybe, if they want it, AND they get updates for my class kill.... I think I'll just "stick it out" and try em"  Why?  thats re tarded.... and i know that people that have that mentality never get groups to PVP with, because playing stupid is different from fame hugging.... a 2 vs 6 scenario is not going to work out, so why try and die and get them the update... is that "pussin out"? Hell no its not... thats smart... cuz the more i do that, the more updates they get done, the more writs they get done, the more PVP gear they get, and when I do see one of em solo or duo vs duo, they will have gotten full PVP set off me and will pwn me with it... thats just re tarded playing...

So you ask, what are they protecting, im telling you that they dont want an Overpowered gank machine to get more updates and more gear and become even more Overpowered... that to me is lame more so then evac'ing for fame... is fighting a fight you KNOW you cant win and allowing that opponent to get updates and gear because of it and making him even more powerful for the next time you see him...

Most of the time i am completely solo, but thanks for the great explaination on why solos should evac from full grps. Now lets go back to my initial question. If they arent protecting their fame, why is it that almost everyone who can evac, will evac? I started frapsing some stuff, it boggles me.

PS: what is a mythical clown? Do you automatically become a clown when you receiver your hard earned mythical? Did i miss something? Do you have your mythical?

As for why people evac from you is the same reason they evac from full groups or anyone... just read my post... if they dont want to give someone an update for free they will evac... A fabled VP geared mythical carrying Briggand?  Those classes are overpowered as is, you add in that stuff and why would anyone want to solo or even small group you?  I dont know you, never played against you, but you seem to be under the delusion that briggands arent' the most overpowered class in the game as is and most people know even a decently geared brig will lay waste to just about any other class 1 v1 and you throw in the mythical and fables and what not and thats why you get everyone running from you... 

I dont want to derail this thread too much but are we playing the same game? You introduce me a brigand of your choice and i will introduce you a monk/bruiser/warlock/Inquisitor of my choice and i'll bet 500p that your brigand will not even have a slight small chance. And this is not an oppinion SMILEY

Back onto topic: I think fame decay is a terrible idea but i agree that a change to the fame system would be awesome.

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Old 12-23-2008, 02:24 PM   #172
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[email protected] wrote

I dont hug a title on any of my toons, i prefer to be no titled actually, so that people think im an easy chump kill and they get pwned in the face and wonder why... because titles certainly dont mean your good on this game, and they certainly dont mean you've earned them, and i think that needs to change.... I think it SHOULD mean those things.... when you can go out and in about 3 hours from no title, get champion and then lose it again... what does that mean? Titles mean nothing... they come and go with the wind, they dont earn you any special privies.... all they do is mean its harder for you to find a fight because people THINK your good cuz you have a high title... I find that having a low title allows me to get more updates and more kill because the group im in is lower titled, so you get a duo or a trio of "uber generals or masters" who dont stand to lose anything (because the fame system currently is lame) and they get pwned in the face....   would they have turned to fight us if we had equal titles or they stood to lose fame? no... so i would lose out on a revamp of the Fame system, because I dont personally care about titles and think i get more kills because there is no equality in the fame system... but it is fundamentally flawed and i dont like parts of this game that are so screwed up that they get a weekly 10+ page post and it doesnt get fixed...   fame decay is still lame and if they want to change to fame decay id rather see it not change at all....  cant fix broke with something more broke...

Good pvper may not have good titles but that doesnt mean they wouldnt beable to get one if they wanted one. Maybe theres people who dont deserve a title because they bought fame theres going to be some lvl of coruption in almost any pvp system.

If you have a title that you ernt through pvp without hacks or exploits, even if it ment runing away alot, you ernt it. You did the work you got the fame and you held on to the fame. If theres a better player that doesnt want to put the work into grinding up the fame ladder or doesnt pvp as much or whatever thats there choice.

Clearly scouts have advatages to grinding fame as they have track and come complet with evec but thats a balancing issue.

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Old 12-23-2008, 03:05 PM   #173
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote

I dont hug a title on any of my toons, i prefer to be no titled actually, so that people think im an easy chump kill and they get pwned in the face and wonder why... because titles certainly dont mean your good on this game, and they certainly dont mean you've earned them, and i think that needs to change.... I think it SHOULD mean those things.... when you can go out and in about 3 hours from no title, get champion and then lose it again... what does that mean? Titles mean nothing... they come and go with the wind, they dont earn you any special privies.... all they do is mean its harder for you to find a fight because people THINK your good cuz you have a high title... I find that having a low title allows me to get more updates and more kill because the group im in is lower titled, so you get a duo or a trio of "uber generals or masters" who dont stand to lose anything (because the fame system currently is lame) and they get pwned in the face....   would they have turned to fight us if we had equal titles or they stood to lose fame? no... so i would lose out on a revamp of the Fame system, because I dont personally care about titles and think i get more kills because there is no equality in the fame system... but it is fundamentally flawed and i dont like parts of this game that are so screwed up that they get a weekly 10+ page post and it doesnt get fixed...   fame decay is still lame and if they want to change to fame decay id rather see it not change at all....  cant fix broke with something more broke...

Good pvper may not have good titles but that doesnt mean they wouldnt beable to get one if they wanted one. Maybe theres people who dont deserve a title because they bought fame theres going to be some lvl of coruption in almost any pvp system.

If you have a title that you ernt through pvp without hacks or exploits, even if it ment runing away alot, you ernt it. You did the work you got the fame and you held on to the fame. If theres a better player that doesnt want to put the work into grinding up the fame ladder or doesnt pvp as much or whatever thats there choice.

Clearly scouts have advatages to grinding fame as they have track and come complet with evec but thats a balancing issue.

What defines an exploit? would you say that if your a trouby or a coercer / illy and you start to lose so you charm and run or evac, thats an exploit? Or how about waiting for peeps to beat you down to sub 50, safehousing, attacking them after their burns are down killing without fear of loss of fame or coin?  Or how about chokering down to sub 50 percent to do the same thing?  Sony refuses to acknowledge some of the biggest exploits in the game, or calls them "legitimate tactics" like the choker, and then all of a sudden ninja nerfs them one day... or in the case of charm and evac, or safehouse breaking PVP combat, they just flat out ignore it.... So would you say people that use those "tactics" are not exploiting and have "earned" their title? I would say no... Its only an exploit if Sony recognizes it as such, but we all know they are exploits...

I agree getting a title and knowing when you should and shouldnt fight someone is a tactic... if you covet your title and you worked for it, i understand not wanting to lose it...  but a VAST majority of the people with super high titles, especially on Naggy... didnt legitimately "earn" their titles through fair gameplay and tactics... Fame buying / selling is everywhere, exploits are everywhere, cheap "tactics" are everywhere...  raid ganking is everywhere...  all of which get people high titles who really have no "skill" or solo "talent" at all.. they just exploit or hide in a raid to get it... so when i see a high titled toon, i automatically assume, based on my previous knowledge and experience, that the person is not really good and i shouldnt 'fear' him.. and im usually right...   And THAT is the problem with PVP fame as it stands today...  the people that exploit and use cheap tactics and raid vs 1 get the fame and the high titles...

Take the title "Champion" to me... that should mean that your hard to beat, your skilled at your class and you have earned the title.. but what does it mean really?  That you killed a couple no titles or hunters to get your first "Hunter title" and from then on out you killed yourself a couple dozen more "Hunters" and  "Slayers" and now your the "Champion"... its bunk and titles mean nothing with current system... as im sure the vast majority would agree... Champion title is a lowbie title and really means very little...  and with the current setup, they are right

Take a situation that happened to me last night on a toon of mine... I was questing in JW... Destroyer title... killing mobs left and right for the Hammer quests... Im at 54 percent HP and about 5 percent power... out of the air comes a Mythical wielding Brig Champion, who of course kills me whilst im at almost 0 power and low health... I "Dropped to the rank of Slayer"... so i immediately revive and run back to where i was fighting.. there he is... I engage him, and... low and behold... a MC bruiser pwns a mythical brig (no comments Darkor ) and what happend??  Well i didnt get any fame from it....  this "Champion" who cant even beat a slayer gets no fame loss from getting kicked in the nuts by me because hes now 2 titles above me... that makes no sense... he should lose MORE fame then he got originally, firstly because i was low health and power, which if could be factored into fame hits, should be... but 2ndly because he got beat by a significatnly lower title... which in real life would mean you would lose face to your friends and the world at large... but in this lame system, he gets to walk away from the fight having not lost anything (cept knowing that he got his nuts pounded by a toon in MC and he tried to run away after he started losing)

Which brings me to another point that needs to be fixed about this PVP system, since this thread has already gone off topic about 10000 times..... Once you engage,  you should be engaged... none of this running away for 20 seconds breaks combat and you can then evac... you started fighting, you finish.. no zoning, no running and breaking combat... it should be over when its over, not when someone who starts the fight, starts to lose, so they snare and sprint away and break combat...   SOOOOO many things messed up about the PVP on this game, no wonder its a dying game... get your heads out SONY and fix stuff

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Old 12-23-2008, 03:17 PM   #174
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[email protected] wrote:

I'm dyslexic so maybe your talking about me when you was dismissing peoples views on spelling and grammer.

Don't worry, I wasn't. Yours is better than some in this post SMILEY

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Old 12-23-2008, 03:35 PM   #175
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Wedge wrote:

Encounter locking is a completely diabolical idea. But, that said, it's an issue for another thread.

The current fame system is messed up beyond doubt. The only people defending it are Darkor (an Overseer on a dead server), and a few other people whose posts are so riddled with grammatical and spelling errors I'd be amazed if the Devs took them seriously.

Seliri, I know your system was based on total kills. I too thought like that for a long time. Then I experienced the KP docks x10 v x10 Qeynos zerg fest with people racking up 500 kills a day. I'm sorry if your post had something to adress this issue, but tbh, It was too long and yellow for me to read completely.

One thing I know for sure, is PvP has steadily got worse and worse since launch because (and this isn't the only reason) more and more people are interested in 'the fame game'. It's no surprise the hardcore PvPers from the KoS/EoF era have left. Guild names like Darkhand, probably the most hardcore PvP guild EQ2 ever had, don't exist anymore. They're left to find games with a better PvP mechanic.

So you want me to drop down my title? 

Never said I wanted that.

But dont demand for it to vanish on its own because i worked hard to get it on a dead server.

Never said I wanted

You're not looking at both sides of the coin. With removal of fame loss on death, there will be SO much more PvP, and SO much less running, godspelling, pvp belting etc. Ever think that you might gain fame, as all the people in your fame range will be out PvPing because they know they stand nothing to lose by engaging, and their title to lose if they run (the opposite of the current system).

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Old 12-23-2008, 04:05 PM   #176
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Wedge wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Wedge wrote:

Encounter locking is a completely diabolical idea. But, that said, it's an issue for another thread.

The current fame system is messed up beyond doubt. The only people defending it are Darkor (an Overseer on a dead server), and a few other people whose posts are so riddled with grammatical and spelling errors I'd be amazed if the Devs took them seriously.

Seliri, I know your system was based on total kills. I too thought like that for a long time. Then I experienced the KP docks x10 v x10 Qeynos zerg fest with people racking up 500 kills a day. I'm sorry if your post had something to adress this issue, but tbh, It was too long and yellow for me to read completely.

One thing I know for sure, is PvP has steadily got worse and worse since launch because (and this isn't the only reason) more and more people are interested in 'the fame game'. It's no surprise the hardcore PvPers from the KoS/EoF era have left. Guild names like Darkhand, probably the most hardcore PvP guild EQ2 ever had, don't exist anymore. They're left to find games with a better PvP mechanic.

So you want me to drop down my title? 

Never said I wanted that.

But dont demand for it to vanish on its own because i worked hard to get it on a dead server.

Never said I wanted

You're not looking at both sides of the coin. With removal of fame loss on death, there will be SO much more PvP, and SO much less running, godspelling, pvp belting etc. Ever think that you might gain fame, as all the people in your fame range will be out PvPing because they know they stand nothing to lose by engaging, and their title to lose if they run (the opposite of the current system).

Yeah but doesnt that mean EVERYONE will get a high title as long as they smash their buttons and killing one or another? How do you differ the lets call em "stronger" or "better" pvpers?

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Old 12-23-2008, 04:51 PM   #177
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One of my favorites is when your a champion in a group of hunters/no titles.

A group of champs run over, all focus on you, and as soon as you're dead, they all run for thier lives.

How is that fun, fair or even sensible pvp?

Rothgar wrote:

Maybe nothing.  I've seen lots of post though where people are not happen with the current fame system.  Although some say its fine.  This is typical and I'm sure we'll never get everyone to agree that the a specific system is the best.  But if the majority of folks think its fine the way it is, then maybe we don't change anything at all.  Maybe we just look at resolving the population problems and see how it goes for another couple months.

Ok, I need to address this.

I think most people that think the current fame system is ok, are those that like getting fame, and not engaging, challenging, fun, fair, or competetive pvp.

The current system does not promote this kind of pvp, it only promotes gaining fame.

Most of the PvP I see on Nagafen these days are people sitting at zone lines/docks in huge groups ganking anyone who happens to run by. Eventually, the other side might get enough people to run them out, but then its just the same thing. A huge group picking on those who are left, or try to come in later. Why do they do this? Because they are all trying desperatly to get that next title, and not lose what fame they have.

The fact is, people are greedy. They will get what then want by any means which you let them. The system currently is broken because John Doe can have his Dreadnaught title without ever having to face a compentent opponent or a challenging fight. What is the point of titles when anyone can get them without having to even be good at thier class, or prove themselves? It is also broken because it funnels people into ganking situations because they are more concerned about protecting thier title, then going out into the wild and actually taking on new opponents, testing thier limits, or seeing how good they actually are.

So no, I do not think the current system is ok. It's cool. I like having the ability to work for something in pvp, but the way it is, ITS BROKEN. Please take some of the advice in this thread and adjust it to promote better/more pvp and less cowardice, ganking, and boring encounters.

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Old 12-23-2008, 05:17 PM   #178
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Azekah1 wrote:

The system currently is broken because John Doe can have his Dreadnaught title without ever having to face a compentent opponent or a challenging fight.

I disagree.  Attaining dreadnaught means you are killing dessys, champs or dreads.  That's usually not easy.  I can't remember pairing up with too many champs or dreads who i thought, "sucked."

Azekah1 wrote:

It is also broken because it funnels people into ganking situations

Don't blame the fame system for this, blame the writ system.  Besides this game is all about, "strength in numbers."  As long as grouping provides benefits (which is sort of the point of the game), many people will choose to pvp in groups, or not pvp at all.

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Old 12-23-2008, 05:19 PM   #179
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[email protected] wrote:

Wedge wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Wedge wrote:

Encounter locking is a completely diabolical idea. But, that said, it's an issue for another thread.

The current fame system is messed up beyond doubt. The only people defending it are Darkor (an Overseer on a dead server), and a few other people whose posts are so riddled with grammatical and spelling errors I'd be amazed if the Devs took them seriously.

Seliri, I know your system was based on total kills. I too thought like that for a long time. Then I experienced the KP docks x10 v x10 Qeynos zerg fest with people racking up 500 kills a day. I'm sorry if your post had something to adress this issue, but tbh, It was too long and yellow for me to read completely.

One thing I know for sure, is PvP has steadily got worse and worse since launch because (and this isn't the only reason) more and more people are interested in 'the fame game'. It's no surprise the hardcore PvPers from the KoS/EoF era have left. Guild names like Darkhand, probably the most hardcore PvP guild EQ2 ever had, don't exist anymore. They're left to find games with a better PvP mechanic.

So you want me to drop down my title? 

Never said I wanted that.

But dont demand for it to vanish on its own because i worked hard to get it on a dead server.

Never said I wanted

You're not looking at both sides of the coin. With removal of fame loss on death, there will be SO much more PvP, and SO much less running, godspelling, pvp belting etc. Ever think that you might gain fame, as all the people in your fame range will be out PvPing because they know they stand nothing to lose by engaging, and their title to lose if they run (the opposite of the current system).

Yeah but doesnt that mean EVERYONE will get a high title as long as they smash their buttons and killing one or another? How do you differ the lets call em "stronger" or "better" pvpers?

/agree... pretty soon, everyone will be overseer and it will be lame... you might as well just offer it up on SC tbh...

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Old 12-23-2008, 05:30 PM   #180
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[email protected] wrote:

Wedge wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Wedge wrote:

Encounter locking is a completely diabolical idea. But, that said, it's an issue for another thread.

The current fame system is messed up beyond doubt. The only people defending it are Darkor (an Overseer on a dead server), and a few other people whose posts are so riddled with grammatical and spelling errors I'd be amazed if the Devs took them seriously.

Seliri, I know your system was based on total kills. I too thought like that for a long time. Then I experienced the KP docks x10 v x10 Qeynos zerg fest with people racking up 500 kills a day. I'm sorry if your post had something to adress this issue, but tbh, It was too long and yellow for me to read completely.

One thing I know for sure, is PvP has steadily got worse and worse since launch because (and this isn't the only reason) more and more people are interested in 'the fame game'. It's no surprise the hardcore PvPers from the KoS/EoF era have left. Guild names like Darkhand, probably the most hardcore PvP guild EQ2 ever had, don't exist anymore. They're left to find games with a better PvP mechanic.

So you want me to drop down my title? 

Never said I wanted that.

But dont demand for it to vanish on its own because i worked hard to get it on a dead server.

Never said I wanted

You're not looking at both sides of the coin. With removal of fame loss on death, there will be SO much more PvP, and SO much less running, godspelling, pvp belting etc. Ever think that you might gain fame, as all the people in your fame range will be out PvPing because they know they stand nothing to lose by engaging, and their title to lose if they run (the opposite of the current system).

Yeah but doesnt that mean EVERYONE will get a high title as long as they smash their buttons and killing one or another? How do you differ the lets call em "stronger" or "better" pvpers?

Because you still need to beat people in your fame range to gain fame. To get master, you're still going to have to kill Dreads/Generals/Masters faster than the rate of decay.

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