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Old 09-07-2007, 08:46 AM   #1
StormCinder

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Just curious if these exist?

Had an experience last night.  Was putting stuff on the broker.  Made a pricing mistake.  Accidentally clicked "silver" instead of "plat" when listing an item.  Purely my mistake.

But what was interesting was how fast the item was sold.  BEFORE it even appeared as "yes" under listed for sale, it was sold.  Literally ~1 sec. 

Not sure if people monitor the board that closely and snatch significantly underpriced items.  If so, kudos to you for your diligence and speedy click ability.  But what I suspect is that there are some kind of 3d party monitoring tools that scan for items and buy them when sold below a certain price. 

On a faint hope, I sent a /tell to the buyer explaining my pricing mistake, but no response.  Oh well.

PLEASE NOTE:  I'm not complaining about my mistake...I'm fully aware that I'm an adult and capable of distinguishing between "silver" and "plat."  It was MY mistake and I didn't /petition to have it undone.  I take it as my responsibility and a (very) expensive lesson.  I'm not whining about that.  I'm just curious if there are (or suspected to be) these sorts of "broker bots" out there? And if so, are they (as I suspect) a EULA violation?

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Old 09-07-2007, 09:09 AM   #2
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No clue, doubt it, but dunno.

I can't count how many times I have underpriced items accidentally, sometimes for significant amounts of time, and been lucky enough to catch the error and change it. It happened to me this week once as well.

I think it was just coincidental timing for you. Sorry to hear though...no fun when that happens. I've sold the odd super nice piece to the Vendor by accident as well when I was in a hurry....bleh lol

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Old 09-07-2007, 09:19 AM   #3
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I don't know what item it was, but maybe you should put the same item on again for the same price, and see how quickly it goes.  if the same thing happens again, bought by the same person, I'd report it.

Of course, that does mean you'd loose out on your plat twice, instead of just the once SMILEY

In fact, thinking about it, I'd probably report it anyway, but making it clear that you know it was you're mistake but you're just a bit suspicious.  I would think the GM people can check out that persons behaviour and see if there is anything fishy going on.

Of course, you may have just been unlucky.

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Old 09-07-2007, 09:19 AM   #4
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Every sale shows who purchased it. Just send that person a tell reguarding your mistake. Or, take note of the name, and place something else underpriced and see if they instantly pick it up again. If so, then report it and petition it with what you did. The use of third party software for those types of transactions I am pretty sure is against the EULA.
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Old 09-07-2007, 09:22 AM   #5
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I've done the same thing, but have also been on the good end of that too. I once got 3 steel clusters for 38 cp each. I know that it was meant to be plat, but I could not let that one go by.
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Old 09-07-2007, 09:31 AM   #6
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I am 99.99% sure there are some form of broker bots. How complicated they are is another issue, but making a basic bot program to buy an item below a certain price would be easy. So easy in fact, that I don't believe there would be a way for SOE to effectively counter it short of running a tool like WOW does. 

Given how much money can be made by "playing the broker," I wouldn't doubt that someone adept at programming has a developed a pretty sophisticated bot program. How widely it is deployed is another matter however.

In you specific case though, it sounds like bad timing. Since the search defaults to sort by lowest price for whatever your search criteria use, if someone was searching at that minute they would see it right away.

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Old 09-07-2007, 09:33 AM   #7
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How should a bot judge how much an item is worth, the only thing would be to look for the difference between NPC and broker-price, but the broker does not give these Information, and there is no search function for underprized items.

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Old 09-07-2007, 09:39 AM   #8
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[email protected] wrote:

How should a bot judge how much an item is worth, the only thing would be to look for the difference between NPC and broker-price, but the broker does not give these Information, and there is no search function for underprized items.

Certain items (quite a few of them actually) would be considered 'hot' items.  'If' bots are in place, they would most likely be pre-programmed to search for a certain item(s) and the price to buy at or below would also likely be pre-programmed.
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Old 09-07-2007, 09:47 AM   #9
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Yes, there are broker bots, they constently search for certian items and then purchase them if they are below a certain amount.

You can purchase this programs at a few sites, along with a harvest, and tradeskill bot.

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Old 09-07-2007, 12:03 PM   #10
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thanks for the perspectives.  I realize one event is difficult to form a conclusion from.

Probably going to not attempt to repeat the event ("Fool me once...shame on you.  Fool me twice...shame on me.&quotSMILEY

The funny part was, it was actually one of the LoN Booster Packs.  I REALLY wanted to know if people were actually paying those kind of prices for them.

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Old 09-07-2007, 12:14 PM   #11
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Now back off SOE this is just a hypothetical.Sony has been real careful to not /log anything that is gamebreaking if automated.Loot chests are not in the /log (except AFTER looting) and there is no command to auto lootThe broker is the same way - only after sales are made is there any text in a log file.*one would have to parse the images on the screen in order to make a EULA breaking broker (or loot chest taking) bot*is this what these illegal programs are doing is examining video memory or a screenshot and trying to read the broker text?to an old database programmer as myself, parsing text (/log) = easy to write a program to behave a certain waybut I have NO IDEA how to parse a graphics screen looking for text. O.o
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:17 PM   #12
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cernst77 wrote:
Now back off SOE this is just a hypothetical.Sony has been real careful to not /log anything that is gamebreaking if automated.Loot chests are not in the /log (except AFTER looting) and there is no command to auto lootThe broker is the same way - only after sales are made is there any text in a log file.*one would have to parse the images on the screen in order to make a EULA breaking broker (or loot chest taking) bot*is this what these illegal programs are doing is examining video memory or a screenshot and trying to read the broker text?to an old database programmer as myself, parsing text (/log) = easy to write a program to behave a certain waybut I have NO IDEA how to parse a graphics screen looking for text. O.o
If the network traffic is sent in plain text you can get any information you want from sniffing that...Heck, even if it uses a weak encryption you can sniff that. If you even analyzed the network traffic closely enough, you might be able to produce a fully standalone broker bot since its all database transactions.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:24 PM   #13
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An extremely basic one could be as simple as stored searches and a program that moves and clicks your mouse cursor.

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Old 09-07-2007, 12:25 PM   #14
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As an analyst/programmer by trade, the concept of setting up a broker bot is not that difficult.

Especially with the number of advanced "searches" you can save.

If any items show up, click buy.

I'm not surprised at all that these types of programs exist.

Personally I hate seeing a dozen of the same characters parked around the broker day in and day out, but I just make sure I'm very careful about how I price things.

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Old 09-07-2007, 12:26 PM   #15
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cernst77 wrote:
Now back off SOE this is just a hypothetical.Sony has been real careful to not /log anything that is gamebreaking if automated.Loot chests are not in the /log (except AFTER looting) and there is no command to auto lootThe broker is the same way - only after sales are made is there any text in a log file.*one would have to parse the images on the screen in order to make a EULA breaking broker (or loot chest taking) bot*is this what these illegal programs are doing is examining video memory or a screenshot and trying to read the broker text?to an old database programmer as myself, parsing text (/log) = easy to write a program to behave a certain waybut I have NO IDEA how to parse a graphics screen looking for text. O.o

A script like this wouldn't be too hard for someone with some experiance in programing. The searches we create in game are stored on our hard drive (eq2_broker_searches.xml if you want to look at it). From there its just a matter of taking that format and automating it. Then when a search comes up posative (the search critera you apply, including the max price) its just a case of setting up a means of automated purchasing.

There is a thread about this on EQ2flames here.

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Old 09-07-2007, 12:34 PM   #16
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Sometimes people will just watch the broker alot.  I know the day LON went live, I stood at the broker and just kept reffreshing it while searching for LON boosters.  In about 2 hours time, I bought about 6 boosters for under 20 gold.  I know, I know...its wrong or what not...but I look back at all the times ive made mistakes, and being able to catch someone else can make ya feel a ton better! "I sold a Nightshade Master for 43 gold once"
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:48 PM   #17
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I cannot put any handcrafted or mastercrafted metal armour (chain/plate) on the broker without bein undercut by 1 copper within minutes.  I do believe that there are bots selling armour on my server.  Can't prove it....but unless its a really hardcore crafter that spends 24 hours a day crafting on one computer, and checking the broker on another, it is hard to imagine that there isn't a bot at work.
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:14 PM   #18
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I am not saying there are not broker bots. But depending on what the OP's item was, transmuters are often polling the broker buying and tranmutting the cheapest treasured, legenary, and Fabled items in a tier. I know I have had a couple of obvious miss priced items pop up that way. 

I attempted to return them both times, but the sellers said it was there mistake and had me keep it.

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Old 09-07-2007, 10:29 PM   #19
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Ok.  10 minutes on Google tonight and found something that made my heart sink. 

Bottom line...yes Virginia, there are broker bots.

They are (apparently) very comprehensive.  They are (apparently) well-written.

sigh

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Old 09-07-2007, 10:36 PM   #20
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The concept isn't hard but to effectively program this the program would need to have a huge database of items with a buy threshold if the price drops under it, constantly be doing searches, have a hook into EQ2 to decipher the items sent back, then a mechanism to buy them. It can't be done via a completely external program because the bot would have to read the results from the search. I find it unlikely that there is bot program out there for this, but the above said that he/she found one. Some people have too much time on their hands SMILEY
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Old 09-08-2007, 12:59 AM   #21
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No database required or used. 

The most ironic part...the bot program has it's own EULA.

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Old 09-08-2007, 02:06 AM   #22
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might be bot. might be bad luck.

Ive made a search gone forward a page then back to find 2 or 3 items missing.  I know i always look for certain items when i log, will check them as soon as im on broekr and before i leave.  50 other ppl doing the same on 1 item and it will sell as soon as its listed if underpriced.

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Old 09-09-2007, 09:00 AM   #23
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There is a Bot program for Brokers.   The people you see camped there for hours are buying and reselling automatically.   You can set the paramaters for rares.... treasuredes... or even by specific items/spells.   It can even be set to automattically undercut by 1 cp to keep your items at the lowest pricesSMILEY
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Old 09-09-2007, 03:14 PM   #24
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StormCinder wrote:

Had an experience last night.  Was putting stuff on the broker.  Made a pricing mistake.  Accidentally clicked "silver" instead of "plat" when listing an item.  Purely my mistake.

But what was interesting was how fast the item was sold.  BEFORE it even appeared as "yes" under listed for sale, it was sold.  Literally ~1 sec. 

I've had this happen to me in both EQ and Anarchy Online (hey, I'm a careless clicker). If someone just happens to be browsing for an item at the time then it's their lucky day.
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Old 09-09-2007, 10:37 PM   #25
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[email protected] wrote:
StormCinder wrote:

Had an experience last night.  Was putting stuff on the broker.  Made a pricing mistake.  Accidentally clicked "silver" instead of "plat" when listing an item.  Purely my mistake.

But what was interesting was how fast the item was sold.  BEFORE it even appeared as "yes" under listed for sale, it was sold.  Literally ~1 sec. 

I've had this happen to me in both EQ and Anarchy Online (hey, I'm a careless clicker). If someone just happens to be browsing for an item at the time then it's their lucky day.
I have done this and gotten a tell from the person saying i think you made a mistake did you want me to send your item back SMILEY  only happened once though SMILEY
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Old 09-10-2007, 05:45 AM   #26
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greenmantle wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
StormCinder wrote:

Had an experience last night.  Was putting stuff on the broker.  Made a pricing mistake.  Accidentally clicked "silver" instead of "plat" when listing an item.  Purely my mistake.

But what was interesting was how fast the item was sold.  BEFORE it even appeared as "yes" under listed for sale, it was sold.  Literally ~1 sec. 

I've had this happen to me in both EQ and Anarchy Online (hey, I'm a careless clicker). If someone just happens to be browsing for an item at the time then it's their lucky day.
I have done this and gotten a tell from the person saying i think you made a mistake did you want me to send your item back SMILEY<img src=" />  only happened once though SMILEY<img src=" />
Some time ago I nearly sent a tell after finding four cobalt for 13g each after a couple weeks of miserable harvesting.  Seller was offline though. You'd think people running automated things would go to the fence, nobody visits them anymore.
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Old 09-10-2007, 01:47 PM   #27
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Sounds like an automated broker bot. I haven't played WoW in a long while but when I was a WoW newbie and looking at all the millions of UI add-ons available I found a program with a long guide by the maker, on how to use it and it was EXACTLY what you are talking about. This program was pretty wild. This guy was a major money making merchant. The program would tell the Low price of each item, as well as average, and high. It had thoughsands of items in it's database and you could update the database whenever you wanted to or you could set the time for it to automatically update for you. I was looking for an add-on to WoW that was just tell me the average cost of something so I could price my stuff correctly and know how much something I just looted adventuring was worth. I had small bags that would get filled  fast so I wanted to know what to keep to bring bac k to town for auction and what to throw away. Remember I was a newbie. I wasn't looking for this high-tech program. As far as I know, this program was a legal UI add-on. I did end up trying it out but it was too complicated for me and I wasn't actually looking for something that complex. I just wanted to make things easier so that I didn't have to search every item to price. So I ended up uninstalling it. But any WoW vet who was a pro-merchant, could easily use it to make tons of gold.From all the talk in EQ2 asking if such as thing exist, I am going to say that I believe it does unfortuantely and that these people probably have it setup to work AFK on an AFK computer. For the computer and bot to have caught you underpricing an item though, says that it had to have just refreshed it's database. It cannot just know immediately that you had dropped that underpriced item in right then and there. It has to refresh the database then buy. In WoW the program I talked about, takes a few minutes to refresh the databse and the maker only refreshes it a couple times a day. But WoW has a huge amount of players and items on the auction so I guess it is possible that in EQ2 a program MAYBE able to constantly refresh it's databe every minute. I'm not a programmer though so maybe someone else can say. EQ2 has way less players on each server meaning way less items on broker to refresh, equaling a lot less time for a refresh to occur and reoccur.To the OP.You should have sent a tell to the buyer and explained nicely that even though you know it's your mistake, ask if you could have it back. Some people will return the item if asked nicely. If that happened to me I would DEFINITELY return you the item without question. Everyone makes mistakes. I made a couple item mistakes before and I asked for half the money back, when the person refused, I contacted the guild leader and told them how their guildy was doing the ingot/ebon cluster scam and only asked for half the money back. The guild leader sent me 1p which as about only 25% but I appreciated it none the less.
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Old 09-10-2007, 02:59 PM   #28
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Littles wrote:
Sounds like an automated broker bot. I haven't played WoW in a long while but when I was a WoW newbie and looking at all the millions of UI add-ons available I found a program with a long guide by the maker, on how to use it and it was EXACTLY what you are talking about. This program was pretty wild. This guy was a major money making merchant. The program would tell the Low price of each item, as well as average, and high. It had thoughsands of items in it's database and you could update the database whenever you wanted to or you could set the time for it to automatically update for you. I was looking for an add-on to WoW that was just tell me the average cost of something so I could price my stuff correctly and know how much something I just looted adventuring was worth. I had small bags that would get filled  fast so I wanted to know what to keep to bring bac k to town for auction and what to throw away. Remember I was a newbie. I wasn't looking for this high-tech program. As far as I know, this program was a legal UI add-on. I did end up trying it out but it was too complicated for me and I wasn't actually looking for something that complex. I just wanted to make things easier so that I didn't have to search every item to price. So I ended up uninstalling it. But any WoW vet who was a pro-merchant, could easily use it to make tons of gold.From all the talk in EQ2 asking if such as thing exist, I am going to say that I believe it does unfortuantely and that these people probably have it setup to work AFK on an AFK computer. For the computer and bot to have caught you underpricing an item though, says that it had to have just refreshed it's database. It cannot just know immediately that you had dropped that underpriced item in right then and there. It has to refresh the database then buy. In WoW the program I talked about, takes a few minutes to refresh the databse and the maker only refreshes it a couple times a day. But WoW has a huge amount of players and items on the auction so I guess it is possible that in EQ2 a program MAYBE able to constantly refresh it's databe every minute. I'm not a programmer though so maybe someone else can say. EQ2 has way less players on each server meaning way less items on broker to refresh, equaling a lot less time for a refresh to occur and reoccur.To the OP.You should have sent a tell to the buyer and explained nicely that even though you know it's your mistake, ask if you could have it back. Some people will return the item if asked nicely. If that happened to me I would DEFINITELY return you the item without question. Everyone makes mistakes. I made a couple item mistakes before and I asked for half the money back, when the person refused, I contacted the guild leader and told them how their guildy was doing the ingot/ebon cluster scam and only asked for half the money back. The guild leader sent me 1p which as about only 25% but I appreciated it none the less.

Appreciate the advice.  I did send the /tell.  Didn't hear back and player was anon.  Oh well.  Interestingly, saw the toon online the next night buying (WTB shouts) the same item (LoN Booster packs).  Offering 2pp.  Still no response to inquiries.  Either a player trying to corner the market or...

The programs I've seen do not require a downloaded db.

SC

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