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Old 10-22-2010, 11:33 AM   #61
Jeal
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group heals and equipping several peices of the rancorous ire gear spread throughout this xpac allows for that fight to not be luck based even if it takes a while.
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:43 AM   #62
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[email protected] wrote:

group heals and equipping several peices of the rancorous ire gear spread throughout this xpac allows for that fight to not be luck based even if it takes a while.

Its funny that you consider relying on hate position procs to not be a luck factor as well SMILEY

I find if he wipes to a mage when his auto attack is due in <1s pretty much means the mage dies, regardless of rancorous ire.  When he goes into that process of chain wiping 5-10times in 10-15seconds, its pretty much game over for the cloth folks.

My point being, since the timing of those chain aggro wipes is varies tremendously pull to pull, its either a luck component, something hokey with the script, or we're missing some event that triggers the chain.

There are times he dies that he only does that chain once at the last 10-15% of health, and those pulls are the easy ones. 

And then there are times he starts doing it at high health 10s in to the encounter.

I don't believe that level of randomness was the developers intended result, but I could be wrong.

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Old 10-23-2010, 06:28 PM   #63
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Having worked on the zone for several 3 hour sessions, we can kill the first and second named without much trouble. The first named is very setup dependent, but not too difficult if you have the right classes. Second named is a bit of an endurance fight, but not too difficult provided you have enough dps for the add. We still can't get the third mob down though. The frequency at which he spawns the adds is just a little too much for us. We're lacking dps to burn him to 0% before the adds become too much too handle, and mezzing them is also a problem when you have 6 or more up. Got the AoE jousting, as well as the blobs down, that's no longer a problem.. just the huge amount of adds gets us every time. Probably we're missing some part of the script, or the dps threshold is just very high.

Overall good work though, it's nice to have something challenging.

Group was: SK, Mystic, Inq, Troub, Lock and Coercer btw

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Old 10-23-2010, 06:51 PM   #64
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Challenging content is great, no doubt about it, but my impression is this isn't really a scripted teamwork type of threshold in place here, it's a gear/classes type of threshold, which means very few setups but the most perfect will ever get to go, leaving many suboptimal classes no chances of ever going unless they are in the top 1-2 guilds per server.

For example on the first mob I can see a cleric, a shaman, a dirge and a coercer, and either 1 plate tank and 1 chain dps or 2 plate tanks. That's the sort of setup that most guilds anywhere below the very top guilds will have any sort of realistic chance at getting it down. For most guilds if you're not the classes listed, you probably only get to do wipes on ZUA hardmode until gear/aa advances like new expansions etc make it easier.

I'm sure people could jump in with how their druid healed it with a monk and 4 clothies, but that won't be reality for the vast majority of people who try.

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Old 10-24-2010, 11:47 PM   #65
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Tanking the second named on challenge mode really really really really makes me want to blurt obscenities at anyone and everyone. The ability Jolt, whereever it comes from seems to apply itself randomly and put a stun on me 80% of the time for a massive stunlock that prevents me from doing anything at all during this encounter, except bash my keyboard in rage as I can't use a stoneskin or deathsave I've had on queue for a good 12-15 seconds or help aid in debuffing the add that needs to die in an amount of time that I can't help at all on because of this stupid mob of randomness. Just, Auuuugh.

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Old 10-25-2010, 09:58 AM   #66
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snowline wrote:

Challenging content is great, no doubt about it, but my impression is this isn't really a scripted teamwork type of threshold in place here, it's a gear/classes type of threshold, which means very few setups but the most perfect will ever get to go, leaving many suboptimal classes no chances of ever going unless they are in the top 1-2 guilds per server.

For example on the first mob I can see a cleric, a shaman, a dirge and a coercer, and either 1 plate tank and 1 chain dps or 2 plate tanks. That's the sort of setup that most guilds anywhere below the very top guilds will have any sort of realistic chance at getting it down. For most guilds if you're not the classes listed, you probably only get to do wipes on ZUA hardmode until gear/aa advances like new expansions etc make it easier.

I'm sure people could jump in with how their druid healed it with a monk and 4 clothies, but that won't be reality for the vast majority of people who try.

I've tanked this zone with a group setup of monk, dirge, coercer, brig, inq, and mystic, and we've got it down to 1-pulling everything.  It really is a steep gear/dps threshold but it's doable.  The one gripe that I have with this zone though is we've cleared this zone about 5 or 6 times on challenge mode and the red adorns from the last guy have yet to be dropped.  Didn't the drop rate of these get increased a few days ago?  Otherwise this is a really good zone.

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Old 10-25-2010, 01:25 PM   #67
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Corydonn wrote:

Tanking the second named on challenge mode really really really really makes me want to blurt obscenities at anyone and everyone. The ability Jolt, whereever it comes from seems to apply itself randomly and put a stun on me 80% of the time for a massive stunlock that prevents me from doing anything at all during this encounter, except bash my keyboard in rage as I can't use a stoneskin or deathsave I've had on queue for a good 12-15 seconds or help aid in debuffing the add that needs to die in an amount of time that I can't help at all on because of this stupid mob of randomness. Just, Auuuugh.

It's a root/stifle, that lasts 3 seconds and is useable every 30 seconds.  It's a non-scripted regular casted innate spell.

There is nothing random about it, in fact it is very straight forward.

How would you suggest I change it without making the encounter easier?

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Old 10-25-2010, 01:35 PM   #68
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I have 93% crit mit.  Fairly well raid geared in mostly T2 and some T3.  The first namer mem wipes constantly then turns around and one shots me for over 50K.

How am I supposed to survive this?  How is the tank supposed to have this many snaps?

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Old 10-25-2010, 01:36 PM   #69
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[email protected] wrote:

snowline wrote:

Challenging content is great, no doubt about it, but my impression is this isn't really a scripted teamwork type of threshold in place here, it's a gear/classes type of threshold, which means very few setups but the most perfect will ever get to go, leaving many suboptimal classes no chances of ever going unless they are in the top 1-2 guilds per server.

For example on the first mob I can see a cleric, a shaman, a dirge and a coercer, and either 1 plate tank and 1 chain dps or 2 plate tanks. That's the sort of setup that most guilds anywhere below the very top guilds will have any sort of realistic chance at getting it down. For most guilds if you're not the classes listed, you probably only get to do wipes on ZUA hardmode until gear/aa advances like new expansions etc make it easier.

I'm sure people could jump in with how their druid healed it with a monk and 4 clothies, but that won't be reality for the vast majority of people who try.

I've tanked this zone with a group setup of monk, dirge, coercer, brig, inq, and mystic, and we've got it down to 1-pulling everything.  It really is a steep gear/dps threshold but it's doable.  The one gripe that I have with this zone though is we've cleared this zone about 5 or 6 times on challenge mode and the red adorns from the last guy have yet to be dropped.  Didn't the drop rate of these get increased a few days ago?  Otherwise this is a really good zone.

I've been extremely disappointed with the drops as well.  The good items (charms and cloaks) even on HM are turning out to be extremely rare.  Have cleared the zone 10 myself personally, and other groups in my guild ~ 10 times as well.  Collectively we've seen 1 charm and no cloaks but have made a crapton of plat at least. 

I know the drop rate of the red adorns was increased, but it really should be 100%.  I'm starting to grow tired of running this zone over and over for a few hundred plat instead of seeing the upgrades we go there for.. especially since the drops for healers are pretty meh anyway.

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Old 10-25-2010, 02:33 PM   #70
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Please god make red adorns actually drop. I think I've cleared this zone 10-15 times on various characters. I've seen all of 2 red adorns, and they where both terrible (accuracy and increased riposte chance). If there isn't a realistic chance at getting the adorns we want it isn't worth running the zone.
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:53 PM   #71
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slippery wrote:

Please god make red adorns actually drop. I think I've cleared this zone 10-15 times on various characters. I've seen all of 2 red adorns, and they where both terrible (accuracy and increased riposte chance). If there isn't a realistic chance at getting the adorns we want it isn't worth running the zone.

I don't believe the zone was intended to be used up in 2 weeks of rapid farming.

The high treadmill factor is expected given the quality of the loot from heroic mobs.  Reminds me of the rare drops in RoK that could take 150+ runs to get.

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Old 10-25-2010, 03:59 PM   #72
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Kander wrote:

Corydonn wrote:

Tanking the second named on challenge mode really really really really makes me want to blurt obscenities at anyone and everyone. The ability Jolt, whereever it comes from seems to apply itself randomly and put a stun on me 80% of the time for a massive stunlock that prevents me from doing anything at all during this encounter, except bash my keyboard in rage as I can't use a stoneskin or deathsave I've had on queue for a good 12-15 seconds or help aid in debuffing the add that needs to die in an amount of time that I can't help at all on because of this stupid mob of randomness. Just, Auuuugh.

It's a root/stifle, that lasts 3 seconds and is useable every 30 seconds.  It's a non-scripted regular casted innate spell.

There is nothing random about it, in fact it is very straight forward.

How would you suggest I change it without making the encounter easier?

I'm fairly certain the ability triggers more than once every 30 seconds as I've seen it hit me atleast 3 times in a period of five seconds, I'll have to have someone get the combat logs for me to check again. I'd just like to be able to actually do something on the encounter rather than being a sponge unable to help on add dps or damage the named.

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Old 10-25-2010, 04:09 PM   #73
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Corydonn wrote:

Kander wrote:

Corydonn wrote:

Tanking the second named on challenge mode really really really really makes me want to blurt obscenities at anyone and everyone. The ability Jolt, whereever it comes from seems to apply itself randomly and put a stun on me 80% of the time for a massive stunlock that prevents me from doing anything at all during this encounter, except bash my keyboard in rage as I can't use a stoneskin or deathsave I've had on queue for a good 12-15 seconds or help aid in debuffing the add that needs to die in an amount of time that I can't help at all on because of this stupid mob of randomness. Just, Auuuugh.

It's a root/stifle, that lasts 3 seconds and is useable every 30 seconds.  It's a non-scripted regular casted innate spell.

There is nothing random about it, in fact it is very straight forward.

How would you suggest I change it without making the encounter easier?

I'm fairly certain the ability triggers more than once every 30 seconds as I've seen it hit me atleast 3 times in a period of five seconds, I'll have to have someone get the combat logs for me to check again. I'd just like to be able to actually do something on the encounter rather than being a sponge unable to help on add dps or damage the named.

Stifles should allow you to auto atk the named regardless.

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Old 10-25-2010, 04:25 PM   #74
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Gungo wrote:

Corydonn wrote:

Kander wrote:

Corydonn wrote:

Tanking the second named on challenge mode really really really really makes me want to blurt obscenities at anyone and everyone. The ability Jolt, whereever it comes from seems to apply itself randomly and put a stun on me 80% of the time for a massive stunlock that prevents me from doing anything at all during this encounter, except bash my keyboard in rage as I can't use a stoneskin or deathsave I've had on queue for a good 12-15 seconds or help aid in debuffing the add that needs to die in an amount of time that I can't help at all on because of this stupid mob of randomness. Just, Auuuugh.

It's a root/stifle, that lasts 3 seconds and is useable every 30 seconds.  It's a non-scripted regular casted innate spell.

There is nothing random about it, in fact it is very straight forward.

How would you suggest I change it without making the encounter easier?

I'm fairly certain the ability triggers more than once every 30 seconds as I've seen it hit me atleast 3 times in a period of five seconds, I'll have to have someone get the combat logs for me to check again. I'd just like to be able to actually do something on the encounter rather than being a sponge unable to help on add dps or damage the named.

Stifles should allow you to auto atk the named regardless.

For the named it's more or less the death saves and stoneskins, And debuffing the add.

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Old 10-25-2010, 06:09 PM   #75
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Corydonn wrote:

Kander wrote:

Corydonn wrote:

Tanking the second named on challenge mode really really really really makes me want to blurt obscenities at anyone and everyone. The ability Jolt, whereever it comes from seems to apply itself randomly and put a stun on me 80% of the time for a massive stunlock that prevents me from doing anything at all during this encounter, except bash my keyboard in rage as I can't use a stoneskin or deathsave I've had on queue for a good 12-15 seconds or help aid in debuffing the add that needs to die in an amount of time that I can't help at all on because of this stupid mob of randomness. Just, Auuuugh.

It's a root/stifle, that lasts 3 seconds and is useable every 30 seconds.  It's a non-scripted regular casted innate spell.

There is nothing random about it, in fact it is very straight forward.

How would you suggest I change it without making the encounter easier?

I'm fairly certain the ability triggers more than once every 30 seconds as I've seen it hit me atleast 3 times in a period of five seconds, I'll have to have someone get the combat logs for me to check again. I'd just like to be able to actually do something on the encounter rather than being a sponge unable to help on add dps or damage the named.

Looks like I found an issue, the spell was improperly flagged. My appologies. Adding to next hot fix.

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Old 10-25-2010, 06:36 PM   #76
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Kander wrote:

Corydonn wrote:

Kander wrote:

Corydonn wrote:

Tanking the second named on challenge mode really really really really makes me want to blurt obscenities at anyone and everyone. The ability Jolt, whereever it comes from seems to apply itself randomly and put a stun on me 80% of the time for a massive stunlock that prevents me from doing anything at all during this encounter, except bash my keyboard in rage as I can't use a stoneskin or deathsave I've had on queue for a good 12-15 seconds or help aid in debuffing the add that needs to die in an amount of time that I can't help at all on because of this stupid mob of randomness. Just, Auuuugh.

It's a root/stifle, that lasts 3 seconds and is useable every 30 seconds.  It's a non-scripted regular casted innate spell.

There is nothing random about it, in fact it is very straight forward.

How would you suggest I change it without making the encounter easier?

I'm fairly certain the ability triggers more than once every 30 seconds as I've seen it hit me atleast 3 times in a period of five seconds, I'll have to have someone get the combat logs for me to check again. I'd just like to be able to actually do something on the encounter rather than being a sponge unable to help on add dps or damage the named.

Looks like I found an issue, the spell was improperly flagged. My appologies. Adding to next hot fix.

Thanks Sir! This fight should be alot less frustrating to tank now.

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Old 10-25-2010, 07:00 PM   #77
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Regarding how the third named works.  Is it actually intended that the goos that spawn can be killed via AoE auto attack but not any other type of free aoe? 

It struck me as odd that a legit strat for this fight is to just stack up classes with aoe auto attack.  However, if this is a bug and its subsequently fixed i think extending the amount of time between blob spawns would be in order. 

This fight is by FAR the most irritating fight in this zone when the blobs don't die like they are supposed to SMILEY

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Old 10-25-2010, 09:31 PM   #78
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The third fight is irritating period.

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Old 10-25-2010, 11:44 PM   #79
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Ulrichvon wrote:

slippery wrote:

Please god make red adorns actually drop. I think I've cleared this zone 10-15 times on various characters. I've seen all of 2 red adorns, and they where both terrible (accuracy and increased riposte chance). If there isn't a realistic chance at getting the adorns we want it isn't worth running the zone.

I don't believe the zone was intended to be used up in 2 weeks of rapid farming.

The high treadmill factor is expected given the quality of the loot from heroic mobs.  Reminds me of the rare drops in RoK that could take 150+ runs to get.

Even if the zone was guaranteed to drop one red adorn per run and you only ran it with a consistent 6 person group it would still likely take months for everyone in the group to get the 2-3 adorns they want. The fact is there are what, 10-12 red adorns? You'd still be rolling against the rng on getting the one you want if they where a guaranteed drop, and you'd still need to farm the zone.

How it is now we may never see the adorns people want. Congratulations on loot that will go undiscovered this expansion, because they are too rare, with too small a base of people doing the content, and no real desire to continue to do it with as rare as they are.

I kind of wish I knew how many times the last guy had been killed on hard across all servers. I think it would illustrate the point well. Has anyone even seen a single cb/pot (which you messed up and their are 2 of) adorn drop? Reuse? Flurry? Spell Double (which is identical to the merchant bought one btw)

There has to be a reasonable chance for people to get something for them to do it. Especially in a zone that requires well geared players and still isn't just a walk through.

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Old 10-26-2010, 02:03 AM   #80
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Since the change i've seen adornments drop 2 out of 3 times we went.  I think we've seen 4 total adornments.  Crit/pot, aoe auto attack, reuse, and riposte chance.

I still think that anything less than 100% drop rate is not enough though.

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Old 10-26-2010, 02:52 AM   #81
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We've seen 1 in I think 6 times through since the patch, riposte. In response to your comment about the blobs and ae auto, that is simply a result of the fact that ae auto counts as a direct attack so the fact that the blobs are immune doesn't matter. Unless they make AE auto an ae instead of a direct attack, this will likely always be the result on things like this.
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Old 10-26-2010, 04:58 AM   #82
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I believe we are 3 for 6 on adorns dropping from the last guy since the change to the drop rate.  Prior to that, we saw none having run the zone nearly every day since it went live. We've seen Greater Reuse twice and Intimidation (one of the 1.5% cb/pot ones) once.  Certainly a guaranteed drop wouldn't be bad considering how many there are and how many a guild needs.  Or if it's going to be a low drop rate, make it a "pick your own adorn" crate.

We've also only seen the second name drop a cloak once, a healer cloak.

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Old 10-26-2010, 11:32 AM   #83
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Slowin wrote:

Regarding how the third named works.  Is it actually intended that the goos that spawn can be killed via AoE auto attack but not any other type of free aoe? 

slippery wrote:
In response to your comment about the blobs and ae auto, that is simply a result of the fact that ae auto counts as a direct attack so the fact that the blobs are immune doesn't matter. Unless they make AE auto an ae instead of a direct attack, this will likely always be the result on things like this.
No idea if it is intended or not, but if it is not, then simple workarounds could include boosting the corpuscles' HP pools to unrealistic amounts (where they no longer get one shot), or giving them some permanent stoneskin type buff, etc. Until indicated otherwise, I can only assume that this is a viable tactic, even if it does somewhat trivialize the encounter with a certain group build.
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Old 10-29-2010, 05:59 PM   #84
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I haven't done this zone on test, but just wanted to say THANK YOU. This zone is a blast and would love to see more hard modes added.

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