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Old 12-15-2008, 02:38 PM   #1
drasklin

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I hope SOE isin't finished with this expansion.  We only recieved about 50 cents on our expansion dollar so far.  It has about half the content that should be expected and about half the foresight and creativity that we should expect.  Please give us the other half that we paid for.

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Old 12-15-2008, 02:43 PM   #2
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No you see, TSO is the other half of LAST year's expansion.ROK+TSO = solid content expansion of all play styles.

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Old 12-15-2008, 03:53 PM   #3
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If you are expecting 4 months of solo content, then you are gonna be waiting possibly forever. TSO is a pretty good expansion. Much better than Kunark.
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Old 12-15-2008, 04:08 PM   #4
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feldon30 wrote:

If you are expecting 4 months of solo content, then you are gonna be waiting possibly forever. TSO is a pretty good expansion. Much better than Kunark.

TSO is an utter piece of crap.

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Old 12-15-2008, 04:16 PM   #5
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CoLD MeTaL wrote:

TSO is an utter piece of crap.

TSO is a great expansion if you enjoy grouping, instance runs and raiding. It's only "crap" if you're primarily a soloer and/or don't play well with others.

The key to enjoying TSO is simple: don't be a scrub, learn to play your class, group with other players, and don't expect instant gratification in everything you do.

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Old 12-15-2008, 04:24 PM   #6
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I know what you mean, the expac does seem quite shallow but as someone already said, its the complementary

other half of RoK imo.

Call me crazy but EoF was still the best expac we've ever had as it had something for everyone.

Just my 2 cents.

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Old 12-15-2008, 04:27 PM   #7
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CoLD MeTaL wrote:

TSO is an utter piece of crap.

Then why are you here?  Go away please.

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Old 12-15-2008, 04:31 PM   #8
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ShinGoku wrote:

Call me crazy but EoF was still the best expac we've ever had as it had something for everyone.

I wonder if we mean to forget the number of complaint threads that existing regarding Echoes of Faydwer?  I distinctly recall lots of complaints about the mitigation/stat changes that came in with Echoes, complaints about classes being unable to solo, and large complaint threads decrying the lack of solo content in certain level ranges.

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Old 12-15-2008, 04:34 PM   #9
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While TSO has some nice stuff...it does not feel like an expansion....The world of Norrath does not feel any larger...in fact it feels smaller.

I much prefered EoF and RoK over TSO.

Never ran out of things to do in EoF or Rok.

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Old 12-15-2008, 04:42 PM   #10
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endricke wrote:

ShinGoku wrote:

Call me crazy but EoF was still the best expac we've ever had as it had something for everyone.

I wonder if we mean to forget the number of complaint threads that existing regarding Echoes of Faydwer?  I distinctly recall lots of complaints about the mitigation/stat changes that came in with Echoes, complaints about classes being unable to solo, and large complaint threads decrying the lack of solo content in certain level ranges.

That being said, it was still the most "complete" expac.

Perhaps it IS just rose tinted glasses SMILEY

I give you there were quite a few complaints and yes things got changed around (to the detriment of some)

but there have been far more complaints about the last two expacs. 

Tso IS the other half of what should have gone in RoK imo.

Just don't get me started on the lack of brawler love...

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Old 12-15-2008, 04:43 PM   #11
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The expansion is shallow, missions or nothing.  There is no variety in play.  It's half of an expansion based on previous expansions.  We got 50 cents on the dollar.

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Old 12-15-2008, 05:04 PM   #12
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I think it just seems small because many of the harder instances require a top notch group with raid gear and mythicals. 

Perhaps the difficulty is not targeting the right players?

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Old 12-15-2008, 05:05 PM   #13
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[email protected] wrote:

While TSO has some nice stuff...it does not feel like an expansion....The world of Norrath does not feel any larger...in fact it feels smaller.

I much prefered EoF and RoK over TSO.

Never ran out of things to do in EoF or Rok.

Uh, aside from raiding, what "things were there to do" in EoF or RoK that you couldn't get done within a few weeks? A month or two, if you played casually?

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Old 12-15-2008, 05:08 PM   #14
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Same question was raised with KoS and it has yet to be released...But I bet within 3 months you can purchase the rest of the expansionl.....for say 30,000 Smedbucks...

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Old 12-15-2008, 05:17 PM   #15
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Kordran wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

While TSO has some nice stuff...it does not feel like an expansion....The world of Norrath does not feel any larger...in fact it feels smaller.

I much prefered EoF and RoK over TSO.

Never ran out of things to do in EoF or Rok.

Uh, aside from raiding, what "things were there to do" in EoF or RoK that you couldn't get done within a few weeks? A month or two, if you played casually?

Well, I'm certainly not one of the TSO haters, but to be fair here...

In EoF, my wife and I created new characters and leveled them from 1 to 60 (with a combination of groups, soloing, and duoing). We did this completely and entirely within the confines of a single expansion. Not once did those new toons see the old world. From Faydark and Crushbone, through BB, SF, Lesser Fay, Kaladim, LP, the catacombs, and so on.

We levelled our characters from 1 to 60 (the max then) in nothing but the content from that expansion. And it took us far longer than a month (yes, we play casually).

I like TSO. It has some neat stuff, and I'm glad to see groupers get some loving. But really... TSO couldn't sustain the entire life of a character--from that characters birth.

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Old 12-15-2008, 05:36 PM   #16
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scruffylookin wrote:

I like TSO. It has some neat stuff, and I'm glad to see groupers get some loving. But really... TSO couldn't sustain the entire life of a character--from that characters birth.

No it couldn't, but it wasn't designed to. Nor were DoF or KoS. That in itself doesn't make it them bad expansions, it's just that the focus of the content is elsewhere.

I like TSO too but I do agree with other people who said it feels like a small expansion. Although I think that's partly due to the fact that like many people, I have not set foot in some of the harder instances yet.

However, it's also because the entire expansion is so heavily instance-based. In all the other expansions so far it feels like you're getting a lot because you have these big outdoor zones. The amount of content is shoved in your face every time you go to the new lands. You don't get that with TSO because there's only one outdoor zone and no public dungeons.

The other thing that people aren't thinking about is all the crafting content that came with the expansion. For some reason people don't seem to include that when they talk about "content." But me and many other crafters would disagree with that.

Overall I think a lot of that small feeling about TSO is perception based on the type of content that was included (instanced, crafting, no public dungeons), and partly because it's heavily progression-based in terms of the instances.

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Old 12-15-2008, 06:04 PM   #17
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bleap wrote:

drasklin wrote:

The expansion is shallow, missions or nothing.  There is no variety in play.  It's half of an expansion based on previous expansions.  We got 50 cents on the dollar.

[removed - Kiara]

I don't know what sever you were on but man people were lined up around the quest zones grouping up ect ect.  Man I loved that freaking expansion.  I still don't have TSo.  Its under the christmas tree, my wife won't give me it early.

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Old 12-15-2008, 06:19 PM   #18
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[email protected] wrote:

bleap wrote:

[removed -- Kiara]

I don't know what sever you were on but man people were lined up around the quest zones grouping up ect ect.  Man I loved that freaking expansion.  I still don't have TSo.  Its under the christmas tree, my wife won't give me it early.

I have to agree.  In BB, there would be 20+ people milling around forming groups.  I'd usually get a group going in less than 20 minutes, and for EQ1, that was really quick.

Same generally holds true in EQ2, there is a constant stream of LFG/LFM spam for level 80 players.

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Old 12-15-2008, 06:23 PM   #19
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If you people would look around and TRY all the new stuff, you would realize how pointless this thread and all the others complaining about TSO is.  TSO does exactly what it was designed to do.  It gives end game content to players, with some scaling instances for 50+.  I've solo quested in TSO since it's release, and between DLZ, Firmroot, Grobb, and the place under the mountain, i'm still not done.  Add into that the missions, the new instances that don't have missions but have great drops, AND the raid content, and i don't think anyone has a right to be upset.  

Now that the hotfix is in, i've done the scaleable instances with a full group of 50's and had no problem completing it.  New XP and AA for my lowbies.  Great.

Shard armor not enough?  That's a joke.   The T2 shard armor easily outstrips MOST non-raid gear, even from ROK.  If you don't think so, it's because your one of the very few classes that didn't get good upgrades, or you don't know your class well enough to see an upgrade when it's in front of you.  And you can't complain about how long it takes to run instances for shards, b/c how many times did you run COA for your cartoid cutter?  VOES for your praetors?  Maidens for the Robe or Helm??   It's exactly the same, except if you don't get the drop, no matter, you still got a shard out of it. 

Shallow?  Really?  With brand new gear in 3 different tiers, new instances from 50-80, brand new tradeskill quests/gear/instances?  All the new raid content?    Except for EoF, which i admit was a good Ex-pac, what other expansion has added that much new content to the game?  

Take a step back, TRY all the new stuff.  Do all the quests, run the instances, maybe craft a little.  This expansion is so much more all-inclusive than people are willing to admit. 

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Old 12-15-2008, 06:29 PM   #20
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You guys seem to forget SOE has a record of releasting free content between packs. While most of the time it is an instance that doesn't mean it will be this time. I forsee the next free release to be an overland zone.

As for TSO. I love it but it's built for people like me and I can see how others would hate it. With that said, RoK was built for people other then me and I just didn't like it. I suffered through a year of RoK, I don't see why you guys can't get through TSO. The days of packs build to support everyone are gone. You can't expect that level of content every year.

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Old 12-15-2008, 06:31 PM   #21
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[email protected] wrote:

Shard armor not enough?  That's a joke.   The T2 shard armor easily outstrips MOST non-raid gear, even from ROK.  If you don't think so, it's because your one of the very few classes that didn't get good upgrades, or you don't know your class well enough to see an upgrade when it's in front of you.  And you can't complain about how long it takes to run instances for shards, b/c how many times did you run COA for your cartoid cutter?  VOES for your praetors?  Maidens for the Robe or Helm??   It's exactly the same, except if you don't get the drop, no matter, you still got a shard out of it. .

I have to disagree on the shard armor.  If you got all your instanced fabled, dungeon fabled, quest fabled, and in general bothered to get all the best non-raid gear for your class in RoK, there are very few shard options that are worthwhile.  Give up dps for crit mitigation?  Whats the point unless you raid, in which case getting 1-2 fabled pieces from the easy raids is better than doing the shard armor.

There needs to be a t3 shard set that includes both dps stats from RoK + mitigation for the new expansion.

I have no issue if its 8 shards for t1, 20 shards for t2, then 40 more shards for t3.  Just as long as there is something in t3 that isn't a stat downgrade.

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Old 12-15-2008, 06:39 PM   #22
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Shard armor not enough?  That's a joke.   The T2 shard armor easily outstrips MOST non-raid gear, even from ROK.  If you don't think so, it's because your one of the very few classes that didn't get good upgrades, or you don't know your class well enough to see an upgrade when it's in front of you.  And you can't complain about how long it takes to run instances for shards, b/c how many times did you run COA for your cartoid cutter?  VOES for your praetors?  Maidens for the Robe or Helm??   It's exactly the same, except if you don't get the drop, no matter, you still got a shard out of it. .

I have to disagree on the shard armor.  If you got all your instanced fabled, dungeon fabled, quest fabled, and in general bothered to get all the best non-raid gear for your class in RoK, there are very few shard options that are worthwhile.  Give up dps for crit mitigation?  Whats the point unless you raid, in which case getting 1-2 fabled pieces from the easy raids is better than doing the shard armor.

There needs to be a t3 shard set that includes both dps stats from RoK + mitigation for the new expansion.

I have no issue if its 8 shards for t1, 20 shards for t2, then 40 more shards for t3.  Just as long as there is something in t3 that isn't a stat downgrade.

It really does seem to depend on the class. Brawler RoK instance gear is beat out by T1 TSO shard gear. The T2 stuff is 10x better. But I have heard other classes complain about it. My major problem is I don't think it will take long for people to have T2 shard gear and once you have all the gear there seems very little reason to do an instance. I already have all my T1 set and two of the T2 set along with the T1 leather shard BP. The pack has been out for less then a month.

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Old 12-15-2008, 06:41 PM   #23
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As an 80 wizard, i had what was considered the best non-raid DPS gear up through ROK.  And despite what ppl may think, the shard armor, and the shadow tree AA's did nothing but increase my DPS.  Maybe that is only from a casters point of view, but i can lose just a bit of stats, or +20 to spell dmg, to gain the extra +crit and the faster casting speed.  The only piece i didn't replace outright was my robe from maidens, and i still use the void robe situationally if i'm pulling too much agro.  Add in the drops from the non-mission instances and i doubt i'll have any ROK gear left on me before too long.  The only non-raid piece i haven't seen a drop to upgrade for in TSO is my praetors guard.  Doesn't mean it's not there, i just haven't seen a piece drop/linked.

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Old 12-15-2008, 06:42 PM   #24
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bleap wrote:

 On Guk it can take anywhere from instantly to hours to put together a group.

I'm on Guk.  It rarely takes me longer than 20 minutes to find a group on ANY of my level 70+ characters.  Unless I'm on during odd hours, groups are just not an issue for me.

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Old 12-15-2008, 06:49 PM   #25
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Geothe wrote:

No you see, TSO is the other half of LAST year's expansion.ROK+TSO = solid content expansion of all play styles.

That's pretty accurate so basically a full expansion every 2 years for a mere $80. That about sum it up? When they were on a 6 month expansion cycle the expansions were pretty [Removed for Content] light. So they supposedly went to a yearly cylcle to correct this. However, lo and behold, they decided to make the yearly expansions just as light or actually lighter than the 6 month expansions. What do ya know. The shell game continues.

In my mind EQ2 hasn't really had a full expansion yet. Certainly not on the scale of a Kunark, Velious, Luclin expansion from EQ1. Those were expansions you could sink your teeth into. EQ2's expansions have been more like snacks.

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Old 12-15-2008, 06:58 PM   #26
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Junaru wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

It really does seem to depend on the class. Brawler RoK instance gear is beat out by T1 TSO shard gear. The T2 stuff is 10x better. But I have heard other classes complain about it. My major problem is I don't think it will take long for people to have T2 shard gear and once you have all the gear there seems very little reason to do an instance. I already have all my T1 set and two of the T2 set along with the T1 leather shard BP. The pack has been out for less then a month.

It probably varies by class.  Nothing for my Guard / Defiler / Coercer / Dirge is very useful (except dirge chest).

Our brawlers are also skipping shard gear entirely, honestly, cause no raid guilds had many brawlers, you've been able to buy any raid leather drop from RoK for less than 15p since about last may.  So literally every brawler I knew was wearing mostly fabled leather regardless if they raided or not.

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Old 12-15-2008, 06:59 PM   #27
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bleap wrote:

[removed -- Kiara]

You and your husband should check out LOTRO.  Duo/solo friendly, lots of lore etc.

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Old 12-15-2008, 07:04 PM   #28
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ShinGoku wrote:

I know what you mean, the expac does seem quite shallow but as someone already said, its the complementary

other half of RoK imo.

Call me crazy but EoF was still the best expac we've ever had as it had something for everyone.

Just my 2 cents.

RoK is not replayable, is a year old, so TSO is not complementary to anything. It stands alone to occupy players for the next year, and unfortunately it is going to fail miserably to do that for a large sector of the player population.

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Old 12-15-2008, 07:08 PM   #29
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Kendricke wrote:

bleap wrote:

 On Guk it can take anywhere from instantly to hours to put together a group.

I'm on Guk.  It rarely takes me longer than 20 minutes to find a group on ANY of my level 70+ characters.  Unless I'm on during odd hours, groups are just not an issue for me.

Thats because you are special.

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Old 12-15-2008, 08:23 PM   #30
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Perhaps it is ironic that TSO...The Soloists Ousted expansion, with its very heavy emphasis on grouped missions...you know.."hey, lets everyone get together!", seems to have engendered so much divisivness, to the point of "boo-hiss" labeling of people.

Hisssss....Soloer..Boo-Hisss on you!

Grrr....You...You Raider you...Booooo-Hisss!

Boo-Hisss....You Forced Grouping Goon! Hsssss!

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