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Old 01-25-2012, 04:34 PM   #1
Cynicisim
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With provi's making charms, alchi's making armor sages making books AND charms, woodworkers making leather poches and all the other changes the past year it is more and more difficult to track who does what. Yes, it may be very difficult to do, and it can be a choice but it would be nice to be able to have all my tradeskills on one toon. I have no problem spending SC to make it so if Sony needs the cash to fund the change. Yes, I know there are web sites that will give you the information if you wish to search but I see only a benefit for combing them all to one toon and allowing a toon to be a master of all the different trade skills.

I know some may not like any idea of change but I have no doubt it would be wonderful to sign into one account and be able to craft for everyone no matter what their needs. yes, some of the quest would have to be changed if you still want to require faction for each craft.

A streamlined crafting community would be beneficial for both crafters and non-crafters which is always good service.

If thsi can or cannot be accomplished it up to SOE but IF it should be done would be interesting to know.

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Old 01-25-2012, 04:48 PM   #2
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I'm curious if you feel the same change should be applied to adventuring?

No doubt the game is already heading in the direction of your inquiry.

It began with combining the attribute stats into one.

Perhaps an intermediary step - Tank, Healer, DPS. Craftsman, Outfitter, and Scholar.

One thing is for sure, one tradeskill would make it a lot easier to remember who makes what anymore SMILEY.

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Old 01-25-2012, 04:53 PM   #3
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Is it that time of year again? 

No thanks.  If I wanted to make armor, I woulda made an armorer.

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Old 01-25-2012, 04:54 PM   #4
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It just can't be done. The biggest problem is the technical nightmare of one person carrying all those recipes. Then you have all sorts of problems with quests and rewards and a bunch of people are unhappy because they made 9 crafters and only need one. It would be a catastrophe.

What they can and should do is avoid distributing recipes this way ever again. Give them to the classes that make sense and leave it at that. There doesn't need to be an even distribution of recipes across all characters.

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Old 01-25-2012, 05:00 PM   #5
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Mizlek wrote:

I'm curious if you feel the same change should be applied to adventuring?

No doubt the game is already heading in the direction of your inquiry.

It began with combining the attribute stats into one.

Perhaps an intermediary step - Tank, Healer, DPS. Craftsman, Outfitter, and Scholar.

One thing is for sure, one tradeskill would make it a lot easier to remember who makes what anymore .

-Miz

When I have trouble remembering things, I make notes. Just sayin' SMILEY

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Old 01-25-2012, 05:17 PM   #6
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Ah, to claify.. I never meant to imply that you only needed to craft up one crafter for all recipes or make a crafter you do not wish to have. I was thinking more along the lines of using the same toon to craft up as  many of the crafters you wish. Still the same amount of crafter to lvl each. Such as you can have a tinkerer and a woodworker on the same toon (if you chose to do so) or a woodworker and a provi and a tinkerrer on one toon etc.

and so.. if you dont' wish to make an amorer, then do not do so.

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Old 01-25-2012, 05:53 PM   #7
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[email protected] wrote:

Ah, to claify.. I never meant to imply that you only needed to craft up one crafter for all recipes or make a crafter you do not wish to have. I was thinking more along the lines of using the same toon to craft up as  many of the crafters you wish. Still the same amount of crafter to lvl each. Such as you can have a tinkerer and a woodworker on the same toon (if you chose to do so) or a woodworker and a provi and a tinkerrer on one toon etc.

and so.. if you dont' wish to make an amorer, then do not do so.

Tinkering is not a major tradeskill and it doesn't add 3000 recipes to a player's list, so it really doesn't belong in this conversation. Whether your adding one or all classes, it doesn't matter. It's still a major change to the mechanics of the game. Nevermind the economic and social implications.

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Old 01-25-2012, 09:47 PM   #8
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Then how about really COMBINE tradeskills?  Sage with Armorer, that can make armorer with magic blue stats chosen per new recipe? Alchy - Weaponsmith to make weapons with build-in poison release? 

Im sure there are dozens of combo's possible here and it would be a new incentive to build out ur crafters even more.

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Old 01-25-2012, 10:39 PM   #9
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The solution is to have them work together to make items, similar to how the prayer shawl quest works. Let's say outfitters make a base item. Then they apply scholar-made to make it better. Craftsmen could have a few items that would also be upgraded in the same way.

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Old 01-26-2012, 11:55 AM   #10
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How about we make it to where one toon can craft everything for us, remove the booring mini-game, cut crafting time down to moments, remove the artificial time barriers in crafting quests to obtain recipes all at once?

Just introduce an NPC that you give raw materials to and the NPC feeds us back the end product.

This very seriously seems like what a lot of you are asking for.

Of course there is an NPC that is like that. It is called a broker. Once you get use to it you'll hardly miss crafting.

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Old 01-26-2012, 12:35 PM   #11
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[email protected] wrote:

Ah, to claify.. I never meant to imply that you only needed to craft up one crafter for all recipes or make a crafter you do not wish to have. I was thinking more along the lines of using the same toon to craft up as  many of the crafters you wish. Still the same amount of crafter to lvl each. Such as you can have a tinkerer and a woodworker on the same toon (if you chose to do so) or a woodworker and a provi and a tinkerrer on one toon etc.

and so.. if you dont' wish to make an amorer, then do not do so.

One thing to consider, there's already an issue with disappearing recipes.  Check out the thread in the tradeskill subforum in fact.  I don't know if it is truly due to there being a large number of recipes for a level 90 crafter, and thus recipes getting dropped at random, but I wouldn't be shocked if this was the case.  Even if this isn't the reason why recipes have been getting dropped since July 2011, the sheer number of recipes one would have if one took up all 9 major tradeskills and both minor ones (transmuting and tinkering) might cause an issue like that or some other issue.

Anyway, although it is somewhat artificial I do think the tradeskill classes need to be seperate, even if to give some variety if nothing else.  Just because they have done things like have provisioners make belts with reactants or alchemists make rings from them and so forth doesn't mean that's a GOOD example.  It just means they needed to find a way for each class to have one permament item they could make from the reactants, and from other MC fabled rares like the Aspect of War, Frozen Shard of Magic and so forth.  If an alchemist could only make potions and poisons from those, there would be plenty of complaints.  In fact, provisioners got belts from reactants in part due to them initially only having food and drink, and no permament items to make.

Finally, consider this.  My paladin Troubor could, if he was a IRL person also let's say study more about his religion and become a Templar, or study unarmed martial arts and also be a monk.  But if that was allowed in game, it would take away the reasons to roll up a second character with a new character class.  Everyone would just multi class then and not have any alts.  Likewise, we need to have one artisan class per character for similar reasons I feel.

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Old 01-26-2012, 01:22 PM   #12
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Actually, it sounds like they are suggesting that the crafting be similar to EQ1, where you can use one character to do multiple crafting schools.  This would add a number of recipes to the toon, but if you click on the crafting table, it only pulls up the ones that apply to that table anyways.

It would make it easier for guildless folks to manage materials (if they don't have the harvest depot) and rares.  It would also let folks do all the trades, even if they don't have the char slots to cover them now.  I would guess quests like for the shawl would be easier too.

Personally, I would not really oppose the idea.  It wouldn't really benefit me though, as I have my crafters on different chars and really don't want to level more up at the moment SMILEY

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Old 01-26-2012, 02:12 PM   #13
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Darkorn wrote:

Actually, it sounds like they are suggesting that the crafting be similar to EQ1, where you can use one character to do multiple crafting schools.  This would add a number of recipes to the toon, but if you click on the crafting table, it only pulls up the ones that apply to that table anyways.

It would make it easier for guildless folks to manage materials (if they don't have the harvest depot) and rares.  It would also let folks do all the trades, even if they don't have the char slots to cover them now.  I would guess quests like for the shawl would be easier too.

Personally, I would not really oppose the idea.  It wouldn't really benefit me though, as I have my crafters on different chars and really don't want to level more up at the moment

The thing about eq1 crafting is that recipes were already on the stations. They also had it where you couldn't master all trades, at least not until they added AA for it.

Even if they did do it, it would be screwing over anyone that took the time to make alts for crafting.

Questing would be a mess. They would have to adjust rush/work orders and the NPCs to handle questing differently. The earring, relic weapon and shawl quests would have to change.  Too many changes for the 7 year old game.

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Old 01-26-2012, 06:21 PM   #14
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I'd rather return to the old days of Resin's, Wash's, and Oils before combining all the Tradeskill Classes into one toon. Back when a Provisioner could make more then just food and drink if they really worked at it. Infact I still have a couple old stacks of the big 3, wonder what they'd sell for just for nostalgia.

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Old 01-26-2012, 07:37 PM   #15
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Calthine wrote:

Is it that time of year again? 

No thanks.  If I wanted to make armor, I woulda made an armorer.

Not really a valid statement, since all classes get the same -armor- recipes (i.e. the Ry'gor, Thurgadin, and shard armors).

It would have been better to say "No thanks. If I wanted to make house items, I would have made a carpenter" since house items are primarily kept solely to the one class. The exceptions are some holiday stuff, TSO faction recipes, and a handful of quest related recipes that can be made in addition to the quest.

Yeah, it's that time of year again and sadly more are climbing on to the "might as well anyway" wagon. The rest of the classes are unlikely to get much in the way of class-oriented recipes, why not consolidate to 2 classes: carpenter and the rest? It would be infinitely easier for development, too.

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Old 01-26-2012, 11:18 PM   #16
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chardz wrote:

Then how about really COMBINE tradeskills?  Sage with Armorer, that can make armorer with magic blue stats chosen per new recipe? Alchy - Weaponsmith to make weapons with build-in poison release? 

Im sure there are dozens of combo's possible here and it would be a new incentive to build out ur crafters even more.

It would be interesting but I think that is something for EQNext. I would enjoying being on the planning of that though.

As for combining all my alt crafters.. LOVE IT!! I started crafting due to the social aspect of it, then due to boredom of the game, and now I have no interst in crafting for anyone but my alts and a few close friends that still play.

I make more plat doing PR or selling off junk from dungeons or shinnys then I ever do crafting and it takes less time. If it was not so time consuming to get the rare ingrediants, find out which of my crafters make what, whats Heirloom, what is tradable, and what is commision etc and what would sell I might craft more. To be honest when someone calls out in chat they need xxx made or can anyone make xxx... I just ignore it even thoguh on one of my  maxed crafters I can most likely make it. Not worth my time to find out who does it, what they require and where all my crafters are at in the reciepes and where they are parked in the game. If I could be logged into one toon and having completed all the quest and daily's and if someome yelled they needed xxx, I can hit a button and say come to me and I will make it either with a portable crafting table or a call back to GH.. that I would do.

I vote yes on combining tradeskillers.. as long as I do not need to re-roll them all.

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Old 01-27-2012, 01:16 AM   #17
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Rijacki wrote:

Calthine wrote:

Is it that time of year again? 

No thanks.  If I wanted to make armor, I woulda made an armorer.

Not really a valid statement, since all classes get the same -armor- recipes (i.e. the Ry'gor, Thurgadin, and shard

Picky Picky!

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Old 01-27-2012, 01:31 AM   #18
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If this was an attempt at verbal irony, also known as sarcasm, Bravo! Incredibly subtle.

If it was not, then the suggestion is made in bad taste as it merely serves as justification for laziness on the part of the Dev Team when it comes to Tradeskilling.

What really needs to happen is that whomever is in charge of development for Tradeskills needs to be sacked and replaced with someone who is not too lazy to add skill appropriate recipes for each profession.

If it was up to me, I'd revamp the entire system without a single consideration for trying to be fair. Instead of each profession getting what it wanted, each would get what they needed.

Armorers would be the only profession able to make all metal armors.

Tailors would be the only profession able to make all cloth and leather armors, leather and cloth weapons, along with cloth and leather containers.

Weaponsmiths would make all metal weapons.

Jewelers would make all jewelry and gem or precious metal charms

Woodworkers would make wooden weapons, arrows, shields, bucklers, and totems.

Provisioners would make all provisions, including ones to enhance mounts, mercenaries, and pets!

Alchemists would have working poisons, xp potions, grenades, and other assorted fun chemistry based items to make. Ancient Poisons and Potions would replace the nonsense they make now.

Carpenters would make all house items, INCLUDING COMPLETE STRUCTURES. For Ancient Recipes, Carpenters would get house items actually worth using a reactant instead of scraps from other professions.

Sages would craft their scrolls and books. Their ancient recipes would be books equipable as charms or secondary or ranged.

I would then do a final run through on the ancient recipes to insure that each profession is balanced in the number of cool items to make that actually make sense for their profession to produce.

The above would be much better than combining Tradeskillers into one super class.

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Old 01-27-2012, 08:31 AM   #19
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Deornwulf wrote:

If this was an attempt at verbal irony, also known as sarcasm, Bravo! Incredibly subtle.

If it was not, then the suggestion is made in bad taste as it merely serves as justification for laziness on the part of the Dev Team when it comes to Tradeskilling.

What really needs to happen is that whomever is in charge of development for Tradeskills needs to be sacked and replaced with someone who is not too lazy to add skill appropriate recipes for each profession.

If it was up to me, I'd revamp the entire system without a single consideration for trying to be fair. Instead of each profession getting what it wanted, each would get what they needed.

Armorers would be the only profession able to make all metal armors.

Tailors would be the only profession able to make all cloth and leather armors, leather and cloth weapons, along with cloth and leather containers.

Weaponsmiths would make all metal weapons.

Jewelers would make all jewelry and gem or precious metal charms

Woodworkers would make wooden weapons, arrows, shields, bucklers, and totems.

Provisioners would make all provisions, including ones to enhance mounts, mercenaries, and pets!

Alchemists would have working poisons, xp potions, grenades, and other assorted fun chemistry based items to make. Ancient Poisons and Potions would replace the nonsense they make now.

Carpenters would make all house items, INCLUDING COMPLETE STRUCTURES. For Ancient Recipes, Carpenters would get house items actually worth using a reactant instead of scraps from other professions.

Sages would craft their scrolls and books. Their ancient recipes would be books equipable as charms or secondary or ranged.

I would then do a final run through on the ancient recipes to insure that each profession is balanced in the number of cool items to make that actually make sense for their profession to produce.

The above would be much better than combining Tradeskillers into one super class.

This definitely needs to happen. Everything was pretty much this way when I started playing, then TSO came along and started having everyone make armor. Tradeskills need to go back to this format here. It would be great if we could permanently filter out or delete recipe books like Far Seas 1st ed. I have no more use for stuff like that and it just takes up space.

I would add two small notes to this outline: Tinkerers should be the only other class making house items. Sages can keep the books, of course.

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Old 01-27-2012, 01:23 PM   #20
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[email protected] wrote:

I would add two small notes to this outline: Tinkerers should be the only other class making house items. Sages can keep the books, of course.

Tinkers don't make house items now, other than the harvests storage box, why should they be making them in the future?

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Old 01-27-2012, 01:45 PM   #21
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Rijacki wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I would add two small notes to this outline: Tinkerers should be the only other class making house items. Sages can keep the books, of course.

Tinkers don't make house items now, other than the harvests storage box, why should they be making them in the future?

Who do you think makes all the mechanical themed items from Tinkerfest?

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Old 01-27-2012, 02:25 PM   #22
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[email protected] wrote:

Who do you think makes all the mechanical themed items from Tinkerfest?

Woodworkers, of course.

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Old 01-28-2012, 07:39 AM   #23
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Deornwulf wrote:

If this was an attempt at verbal irony, also known as sarcasm, Bravo! Incredibly subtle.

If it was not, then the suggestion is made in bad taste as it merely serves as justification for laziness on the part of the Dev Team when it comes to Tradeskilling.

What really needs to happen is that whomever is in charge of development for Tradeskills needs to be sacked and replaced with someone who is not too lazy to add skill appropriate recipes for each profession.

If it was up to me, I'd revamp the entire system without a single consideration for trying to be fair. Instead of each profession getting what it wanted, each would get what they needed.

Armorers would be the only profession able to make all metal armors.

Tailors would be the only profession able to make all cloth and leather armors, leather and cloth weapons, along with cloth and leather containers.

Weaponsmiths would make all metal weapons.

Jewelers would make all jewelry and gem or precious metal charms

Woodworkers would make wooden weapons, arrows, shields, bucklers, and totems.

Provisioners would make all provisions, including ones to enhance mounts, mercenaries, and pets!

Alchemists would have working poisons, xp potions, grenades, and other assorted fun chemistry based items to make. Ancient Poisons and Potions would replace the nonsense they make now.

Carpenters would make all house items, INCLUDING COMPLETE STRUCTURES. For Ancient Recipes, Carpenters would get house items actually worth using a reactant instead of scraps from other professions.

Sages would craft their scrolls and books. Their ancient recipes would be books equipable as charms or secondary or ranged.

I would then do a final run through on the ancient recipes to insure that each profession is balanced in the number of cool items to make that actually make sense for their profession to produce.

The above would be much better than combining Tradeskillers into one super class.

You would need to be the producer of the game, because a mere developer of tradeskills doesn't get to decide how powerful crafted items are vs spells and other items. If the tradeskill devs were, we might have potions that were worth using. More or less alchemy is a poor joke because it is felt by the producers that if it were powerful enough for adventurers to consider using potions it would imballance the game.

By taking away the non-class rewards from tradeskills your relegating some crafting classes to not having any real reward. Alchemists mainly. Woodworkers and Weaponsmiths are getting rewards that over half of the players have 1 slot of and can usually find something better from adventuring. Armorers and tailors get the best benifit. Jewelers could be in the same boat *if* jewelery got decent itemization which it never has. Sages would be horning in on both Jewelers and Tailors which you seem to object to at the top of your post but they would need something to keep them relevant. Carpenters? I suppose once the tier is outgrown carpenters would have a supply of whatever they need for furniture. Otherwise...it would be very expensive furniture.

All in all, not a fair or equitable system which is what half of the people invovled in crafting demand. The other half think like you do. As a developer or producer you have to keep both groups in mind. Well, you don't have to but don't expect to keep your job for long.

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Old 01-28-2012, 01:41 PM   #24
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Meirril wrote:

Deornwulf wrote:

If this was an attempt at verbal irony, also known as sarcasm, Bravo! Incredibly subtle.

If it was not, then the suggestion is made in bad taste as it merely serves as justification for laziness on the part of the Dev Team when it comes to Tradeskilling.

What really needs to happen is that whomever is in charge of development for Tradeskills needs to be sacked and replaced with someone who is not too lazy to add skill appropriate recipes for each profession.

If it was up to me, I'd revamp the entire system without a single consideration for trying to be fair. Instead of each profession getting what it wanted, each would get what they needed.

Armorers would be the only profession able to make all metal armors.

Tailors would be the only profession able to make all cloth and leather armors, leather and cloth weapons, along with cloth and leather containers.

Weaponsmiths would make all metal weapons.

Jewelers would make all jewelry and gem or precious metal charms

Woodworkers would make wooden weapons, arrows, shields, bucklers, and totems.

Provisioners would make all provisions, including ones to enhance mounts, mercenaries, and pets!

Alchemists would have working poisons, xp potions, grenades, and other assorted fun chemistry based items to make. Ancient Poisons and Potions would replace the nonsense they make now.

Carpenters would make all house items, INCLUDING COMPLETE STRUCTURES. For Ancient Recipes, Carpenters would get house items actually worth using a reactant instead of scraps from other professions.

Sages would craft their scrolls and books. Their ancient recipes would be books equipable as charms or secondary or ranged.

I would then do a final run through on the ancient recipes to insure that each profession is balanced in the number of cool items to make that actually make sense for their profession to produce.

The above would be much better than combining Tradeskillers into one super class.

You would need to be the producer of the game, because a mere developer of tradeskills doesn't get to decide how powerful crafted items are vs spells and other items. If the tradeskill devs were, we might have potions that were worth using. More or less alchemy is a poor joke because it is felt by the producers that if it were powerful enough for adventurers to consider using potions it would imballance the game.

By taking away the non-class rewards from tradeskills your relegating some crafting classes to not having any real reward. Alchemists mainly. Woodworkers and Weaponsmiths are getting rewards that over half of the players have 1 slot of and can usually find something better from adventuring. Armorers and tailors get the best benifit. Jewelers could be in the same boat *if* jewelery got decent itemization which it never has. Sages would be horning in on both Jewelers and Tailors which you seem to object to at the top of your post but they would need something to keep them relevant. Carpenters? I suppose once the tier is outgrown carpenters would have a supply of whatever they need for furniture. Otherwise...it would be very expensive furniture.

All in all, not a fair or equitable system which is what half of the people invovled in crafting demand. The other half think like you do. As a developer or producer you have to keep both groups in mind. Well, you don't have to but don't expect to keep your job for long.

You make a fair point, but is the answer to simply give every single class a set of recipes? I would argue that the Devs and Producers are taking the easy way out.

There has to be a more creative answer that would keep Alchemists, Woodworkers, Weaponsmiths, and Sages relevant. Useful consumables or a new type of equipment enhancement immediately springs to mind. XP potions and teleportation scrolls would keep Sages and Alchemists busy. More totems, including Ancient Totems would be good for Woodworkers. Temporary Weapon Enhancements and Ancient Weapon Effects that don't take any reactants should keep the Weaponsmiths working.

Carpenters are in an odd spot as they mainly provide items that are not of an adventuring nature. I would focus on their strengths to keep them busy through useful house items that most players would want to have.

And that's just off the top of my head. A competent Dev Team should be able to come up with something better than Provisioners making belts or Alchemists making jewelry.

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Old 01-28-2012, 02:41 PM   #25
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[email protected] wrote:

Rijacki wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I would add two small notes to this outline: Tinkerers should be the only other class making house items. Sages can keep the books, of course.

Tinkers don't make house items now, other than the harvests storage box, why should they be making them in the future?

Who do you think makes all the mechanical themed items from Tinkerfest?

Holidays aren't normal recipes. I rarely think about holidays when considering what recipes are in a class's main books. But you're right, tinkering is used for the Tinkerfest holiday recipes of all sorts.

By that same logic, considering the holidays, all the craft classes make house items.

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Old 01-28-2012, 02:50 PM   #26
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Meirril wrote:

Deornwulf wrote:

All in all, not a fair or equitable system which is what half of the people invovled in crafting demand. The other half think like you do. As a developer or producer you have to keep both groups in mind. Well, you don't have to but don't expect to keep your job for long.

Unfortunately, if you look at pretty much everything that has been done with this game in recent months, the only people that the dev's or producer's have any care to listen to are the ones buying and /bugging marketplace items.  The rest of us get ignored as do the constant flux of in-game bugs and broken content.  The wave of EQ2 future is a broken game flooded with bugs, lacking any sense of balance or decent itemization all covered with SC fluff and smoke and mirrors designed to distract us from the problems.  Crafting is no different, their idea of balancing out the crafters is that we can all make end-game armor and refine gems, and then throw us a few craft specific recipes after we get the factions for them.

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Old 01-29-2012, 04:58 AM   #27
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Meirril wrote:

Deornwulf wrote:

All in all, not a fair or equitable system which is what half of the people invovled in crafting demand. The other half think like you do. As a developer or producer you have to keep both groups in mind. Well, you don't have to but don't expect to keep your job for long.

Unfortunately, if you look at pretty much everything that has been done with this game in recent months, the only people that the dev's or producer's have any care to listen to are the ones buying and /bugging marketplace items.  The rest of us get ignored as do the constant flux of in-game bugs and broken content.  The wave of EQ2 future is a broken game flooded with bugs, lacking any sense of balance or decent itemization all covered with SC fluff and smoke and mirrors designed to distract us from the problems.  Crafting is no different, their idea of balancing out the crafters is that we can all make end-game armor and refine gems, and then throw us a few craft specific recipes after we get the factions for them.

To be fair, most of the development you see for crafters comes when a new tier is introduced. With no plans to move to tier 10 anytime soon crafting development is going to depend on the dev team taking a serious look at crafting and seeing what works and what doesn't. With all the demands on the dev team, they are more likely to focus on adventuring than crafting which unfortunately needs as much if not more work than crafting.

Considering that the percentage of time most player spend either adventuring or crafting, you can see where most of the time is going to be spent. Now add on top of that developers who only apply their time to creating SC items because they directly generate revenue and you have insult added to injury.

However, we can motivate developers to work on crafting. By presenting a detailed blueprint you can lure a dev into spending their time to make it happen. But it needs to be a convincing argument that sounds like it will present a benifit to a large community of players.

The whole tradeskill apprentices idea does that. It has created a lot of "crafting content" that us players spend a considerable amount of time doing. While it isn't challenging content, it is eating up playtime which actually from a producer perspective means it is a success. The content created pays off well enough to keep player's interest. In a strange way, it works better than fixing broken recipes for having people spend more time crafting.

The way a producer or developer is going to look at a proposal is quite different than a player's perspective. You need to keep this in mind too.

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