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Old 01-09-2009, 03:14 AM   #241
Noaani

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Mordith wrote:

only to point out that the zones are easy enough to not require scout dps. 

The fact that this (portion of a) sentance exists says to me that either mages in general are in a bad shape, or players think mages in general are in a bad shape.

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Old 01-09-2009, 05:23 AM   #242
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Noaani wrote:

Mordith wrote:

only to point out that the zones are easy enough to not require scout dps. 

The fact that this (portion of a) sentance exists says to me that either mages in general are in a bad shape, or players think mages in general are in a bad shape.

Which heroic zone in game "requires" scout dps ? I'm curious SMILEY

(unless by scout dps you meant bards, but I did not read it that way).

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Old 01-09-2009, 06:31 AM   #243
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What bugs me is that a post after yours asked what your dps was.  Who cares? Even with two slacking summoners in group, all of the easy TSO zones can be completed.  People just don't understand that and hence are looking for scout or non-summoner dps.  Beyond frustrating.

NEWSFLASH:  Killing trash isn't fun.  Especially trash I've killed ten trillion times before.

It's mind-numbing, boring, and basically just there to waste our time until the next expansion rolls around.  With this in mind, certainly you can see why players want to blow through it as quickly and painlessly as possible?  If so, then you also have to admit it's not accomplished by inviting classes to your group that drag everyone down and make the experience even more miserable, right?

If you want people to lighten up on the criteria (like raw DPS) for getting into a group, then I'd suggest nagging soe to come up with something more intuitive than repetitive mindless trash killing that takes little more than massive amounts of DPS to defeat.

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Old 01-09-2009, 08:42 AM   #244
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StaticLex wrote:

What bugs me is that a post after yours asked what your dps was.  Who cares? Even with two slacking summoners in group, all of the easy TSO zones can be completed.  People just don't understand that and hence are looking for scout or non-summoner dps.  Beyond frustrating.

NEWSFLASH:  Killing trash isn't fun.  Especially trash I've killed ten trillion times before.

It's mind-numbing, boring, and basically just there to waste our time until the next expansion rolls around.  With this in mind, certainly you can see why players want to blow through it as quickly and painlessly as possible?  If so, then you also have to admit it's not accomplished by inviting classes to your group that drag everyone down and make the experience even more miserable, right?

If you want people to lighten up on the criteria (like raw DPS) for getting into a group, then I'd suggest nagging soe to come up with something more intuitive than repetitive mindless trash killing that takes little more than massive amounts of DPS to defeat.

I think you mean "players that drag everyone down and make the experience even more miserable".

And really as a Necro in easily attainable gear I find myself not only parsing as much as Assassins, but even higher in most cases.  Basically unless that Assassin has a Mythical "AND" is [Removed for Content] good I'll stomp them on the parse.  And no I don't have a Mythical.  And that's just single targets.  On AE content the Assassin might as well sit down and open up a temp crafting table because the mobs are dead before they can find their back to poke them.

And swash/brig don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of beating me on the parse without mythicals and some decent fables to back those mythicals up with.

Experienced Summoners are by far the best DPS you could want in a TSO group.  No agro issues, more power regen than a Bard and Chanter combined with the tier 2 shard robe, and as much DPS if not more on single targets as any scout and way WAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY more on all AE content... 

All you need to do is go with a troub instead of a dirge.  And if you want to see 30K+ DPS without any Mythicals add an experienced Illusionist to that mix and watch that summoner turn over 10k on single targets and over 20k on linked mobs.

But by all means exclude summoners at every oppertunity.  Because when you make the content that utterly trivial it stops being fun right ...

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Old 01-09-2009, 11:22 AM   #245
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Lethe5683 wrote:

Mordith wrote:

What bugs me is that a post after yours asked what your dps was. Who cares? Even with two slacking summoners in group, all of the easy TSO zones can be completed. People just don't understand that and hence are looking for scout or non-summoner dps.  Beyond frustrating.

Yeah.. all three of them? Just because it's possible doesn't mean I want to drag some slackers through and instance so they can leech off decent players.

Summoners are slackers? When did that happen?

As for "all three of them" ... Scion, Caverns, Evernight, Nu'Roga, Veksar, Mystmyr, Deep Forge, Hollow Tower, & OoA -- at least -- are all pretty easy. I'm counting 9, which is 3x what you seem to think.

Lastly, if people ARE widely perceiving Summoners to be "slacking on DPS" ... doesn't that kinda imply a problem SOE should look at fixing? Sooo, rather than having a bunch of people affirming, one way or the other, that they won't take a "slacker" Summoner along ... how about lobbying SOE to identify & fix the apparent problem? Or does that make too much sense?

OTOH, if there's no real problem to be fixed, that implies that Summoners are not "slackers", thus there's no good reason to exclude them. Either way, simply sitting back & asserting that it's acceptable to simply leave out Summoners seems unreasonable to me -- especially since I've grouped with Summoners in several of these instances, including once a Conjy in Veksar, & we had no issues completing the dungeons, & certainly none that I'd blame on the Summoner.

This whole sub-issue is just another example of my long-held belief: the GAME isn't broken, it's the PLAYERS who are. Sadly, SOE has no patch for broken players SMILEY In any event, this isn't a "reason" for making void shards soloable, it's a reason to "fix" Summoners ... assuming, that is, that they "need" fixing.

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Old 01-09-2009, 11:25 AM   #246
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[email protected] wrote:

Which heroic zone in game "requires" scout dps? I'm curious

Not one.

One would think otherwise, however, by the number of people looking for "Scout DPS" for TSO runs. I see this far more often than I do "group looking for Mage DPS."

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Old 01-09-2009, 11:54 AM   #247
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[email protected] wrote:

This whole sub-issue is just another example of my long-held belief: the GAME isn't broken, it's the PLAYERS who are. Sadly, SOE has no patch for broken players In any event, this isn't a "reason" for making void shards soloable, it's a reason to "fix" Summoners ... assuming, that is, that they "need" fixing.

Got it right in the bolded part. Nothing wrong with Summoners. No reason to make void shards any more or less soloable than they are now.

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Old 01-09-2009, 01:45 PM   #248
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

This whole sub-issue is just another example of my long-held belief: the GAME isn't broken, it's the PLAYERS who are. Sadly, SOE has no patch for broken players In any event, this isn't a "reason" for making void shards soloable, it's a reason to "fix" Summoners ... assuming, that is, that they "need" fixing.

Got it right in the bolded part. Nothing wrong with Summoners. No reason to make void shards any more or less soloable than they are now.

To be honest, I really don't know if it is summoners that need fixing or perceptions.  I suspect the answer lies in a bit of both.  I don't run parses so really have no clue how my dps is or that of any other class.

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Old 01-09-2009, 02:35 PM   #249
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Mordith wrote:

I don't run parses so really have no clue how my dps is or that of any other class.

I can assure you that whether or not you do, others will be running parses.  You'll be judged by standards you don't even know of, because you haven't made yourself aware. 

As a damage class, you're judged by how much damage you put forth.  If your numbers "feel" right to you, and yet parse lower than the perceived standards you are held to, then your "feelings" on the matter are not only irrelevant, but also false. 

I daresay a great many players who feel they're having issues finding groups also do not parse.  After all, many of those complaining have stated that they dont' yet have their epics, have not yet bothered with better than mastercrafted armors, and frequently do not yet even have Adept III quality spells.  If even these basic standards are not met, how could anyone claim to be "good" at their class? 

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Old 01-09-2009, 02:51 PM   #250
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Kendricke wrote:

Mordith wrote:

I don't run parses so really have no clue how my dps is or that of any other class.

I can assure you that whether or not you do, others will be running parses.  You'll be judged by standards you don't even know of, because you haven't made yourself aware. 

As a damage class, you're judged by how much damage you put forth.  If your numbers "feel" right to you, and yet parse lower than the perceived standards you are held to, then your "feelings" on the matter are not only irrelevant, but also false. 

I daresay a great many players who feel they're having issues finding groups also do not parse.  After all, many of those complaining have stated that they dont' yet have their epics, have not yet bothered with better than mastercrafted armors, and frequently do not yet even have Adept III quality spells.  If even these basic standards are not met, how could anyone claim to be "good" at their class? 

I understand your point, but again the issue is not a personal one but rather that groups are insisting on scout dps.  Unless, of course, no summoners use parses and hence are on the low end of the dps spectrum thereby feeding the perception of a lack of summoner dps.  That would be somewhat far-fetched and I don't believe you are suggesting as much.

As a point of note, however, all of my gear is legendary or better and spells A3 or better (even my spells that don't need to be upgraded have been upgraded).

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Old 01-09-2009, 04:31 PM   #251
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I don't insist on scout DPS.  I do insist on skilled players. 

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Old 01-09-2009, 06:48 PM   #252
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Mordith wrote:

Kendricke wrote:

Mordith wrote:

I don't run parses so really have no clue how my dps is or that of any other class.

I can assure you that whether or not you do, others will be running parses.  You'll be judged by standards you don't even know of, because you haven't made yourself aware. 

As a damage class, you're judged by how much damage you put forth.  If your numbers "feel" right to you, and yet parse lower than the perceived standards you are held to, then your "feelings" on the matter are not only irrelevant, but also false. 

I daresay a great many players who feel they're having issues finding groups also do not parse.  After all, many of those complaining have stated that they dont' yet have their epics, have not yet bothered with better than mastercrafted armors, and frequently do not yet even have Adept III quality spells.  If even these basic standards are not met, how could anyone claim to be "good" at their class? 

I understand your point, but again the issue is not a personal one but rather that groups are insisting on scout dps.  Unless, of course, no summoners use parses and hence are on the low end of the dps spectrum thereby feeding the perception of a lack of summoner dps.  That would be somewhat far-fetched and I don't believe you are suggesting as much.

As a point of note, however, all of my gear is legendary or better and spells A3 or better (even my spells that don't need to be upgraded have been upgraded).

It's not a perception that summoners are terrible DPS you need to overcome.  Summoner is the hardest mage class to play well.  Pretty well the hardest class in the game to DPS with.  And other players know picking up a summoner is a grab bag for this reason.

Sometimes you get something decent 3-4k DPS and Utility support.  Once in a tiny while you get something fantastic 7-10k DPS Utility Support and crying Assassins (beautiful).  But most of the time you get Garbage 1-2k DPS no Utility brought to the group.. might as well have them crafting in the corner on a temp desk while you clear the zone around them.

What people look for in TSO is players who know their class or pick-ups that play really easy classes so even if they suck they aren't doing that terribley bad.  That's pretty much it.

What you need to do is prove that you can DPS to enough people that you are no longer labled the Summoner no one knows.  That is of course if you can actually DPS well.  If you can't it's a mute point just take whatever groups you can get and let them walk you through content.  And don't complain anymore because you bring nothing to the table.

I hate to say this but a lot of summoners who get the "sorry we need a scout" comment are actually getting it because the people or person in the group already know said summoner can't DPS their way out of a wet paper sack and are trying to be Nice.

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Old 01-09-2009, 07:47 PM   #253
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[email protected] wrote:

Noaani wrote:

Mordith wrote:

only to point out that the zones are easy enough to not require scout dps. 

The fact that this (portion of a) sentance exists says to me that either mages in general are in a bad shape, or players think mages in general are in a bad shape.

Which heroic zone in game "requires" scout dps ? I'm curious

(unless by scout dps you meant bards, but I did not read it that way).

I'm not the one that said it. I only made on comment on the fact that it was said at all. Obviously I totally disagree with the statment in every concievable way, but its the fact that oths think in this manner that concerns me.

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Old 01-09-2009, 10:14 PM   #254
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Mordith wrote:

Kendricke wrote:

Mordith wrote:

I don't run parses so really have no clue how my dps is or that of any other class.

I can assure you that whether or not you do, others will be running parses.  You'll be judged by standards you don't even know of, because you haven't made yourself aware. 

As a damage class, you're judged by how much damage you put forth.  If your numbers "feel" right to you, and yet parse lower than the perceived standards you are held to, then your "feelings" on the matter are not only irrelevant, but also false. 

I daresay a great many players who feel they're having issues finding groups also do not parse.  After all, many of those complaining have stated that they dont' yet have their epics, have not yet bothered with better than mastercrafted armors, and frequently do not yet even have Adept III quality spells.  If even these basic standards are not met, how could anyone claim to be "good" at their class? 

I understand your point, but again the issue is not a personal one but rather that groups are insisting on scout dps.  Unless, of course, no summoners use parses and hence are on the low end of the dps spectrum thereby feeding the perception of a lack of summoner dps.  That would be somewhat far-fetched and I don't believe you are suggesting as much.

As a point of note, however, all of my gear is legendary or better and spells A3 or better (even my spells that don't need to be upgraded have been upgraded).

"parse"   can also mean to perform well( ie medium to high damage per second for thier class). 

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Old 01-10-2009, 04:51 PM   #255
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Because if you don't have a sense of progression in the game, then why keep playing?

Get a group, & you'll feel that sense of progression.

Translation: Play by my play style because I don't give a halflings @$$ about yours.

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Old 01-10-2009, 06:44 PM   #256
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Xil wrote:

Mordith wrote:

Kendricke wrote:

Mordith wrote:

I don't run parses so really have no clue how my dps is or that of any other class.

I can assure you that whether or not you do, others will be running parses.  You'll be judged by standards you don't even know of, because you haven't made yourself aware. 

As a damage class, you're judged by how much damage you put forth.  If your numbers "feel" right to you, and yet parse lower than the perceived standards you are held to, then your "feelings" on the matter are not only irrelevant, but also false. 

I daresay a great many players who feel they're having issues finding groups also do not parse.  After all, many of those complaining have stated that they dont' yet have their epics, have not yet bothered with better than mastercrafted armors, and frequently do not yet even have Adept III quality spells.  If even these basic standards are not met, how could anyone claim to be "good" at their class? 

I understand your point, but again the issue is not a personal one but rather that groups are insisting on scout dps.  Unless, of course, no summoners use parses and hence are on the low end of the dps spectrum thereby feeding the perception of a lack of summoner dps.  That would be somewhat far-fetched and I don't believe you are suggesting as much.

As a point of note, however, all of my gear is legendary or better and spells A3 or better (even my spells that don't need to be upgraded have been upgraded).

It's not a perception that summoners are terrible DPS you need to overcome.  Summoner is the hardest mage class to play well.  Pretty well the hardest class in the game to DPS with.  And other players know picking up a summoner is a grab bag for this reason.

Sometimes you get something decent 3-4k DPS and Utility support.  Once in a tiny while you get something fantastic 7-10k DPS Utility Support and crying Assassins (beautiful).  But most of the time you get Garbage 1-2k DPS no Utility brought to the group.. might as well have them crafting in the corner on a temp desk while you clear the zone around them.

What people look for in TSO is players who know their class or pick-ups that play really easy classes so even if they suck they aren't doing that terribley bad.  That's pretty much it.

What you need to do is prove that you can DPS to enough people that you are no longer labled the Summoner no one knows.  That is of course if you can actually DPS well.  If you can't it's a mute point just take whatever groups you can get and let them walk you through content.  And don't complain anymore because you bring nothing to the table.

I hate to say this but a lot of summoners who get the "sorry we need a scout" comment are actually getting it because the people or person in the group already know said summoner can't DPS their way out of a wet paper sack and are trying to be Nice.

My preception of summoners is that it is the easy class to be mediocore at since it has a pet, then pet is a huge crutch that many rely heavily on while leveling up and many of hte bad players are able to make it to 80 and think they are good because thier pet took all the skill out of solo leveling.  SO this creates a larger population of bad summoners, however there are still many that know what to do.

Also most fo the time when some one is looking for scout DPS it is because a MAGE started the group and wants a specific drop from the zone, why would he increase his competition for that drop, simply get scouts who do not want that item, that way it reduces the amount fo times required to run a specific instance for a specific drop.

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Old 01-10-2009, 10:29 PM   #257
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The real problem with these threads is they always splinter into several related but very different arguments, then those arguments cross over incorrectly. You have people debating completely different issues without even realizing it. It's not as simple as Solo vs Group. There are several factions here.

There are folks that want all the same content and rewards solo that are available for groups.

There are folks that don't care about rewards, but just want to experience the content solo.

There are folks that want to experience the content, and get the rewards... but at a much slower pace.

There are folks that want to experience the content, and get similar rewards, but scaled down to an appropriate level for soloers (a separate set of rewards for groups and soloers).

There are folks that think soloers have no place in this game, period.

There are duoers who are almost always considered soloers in regards to this debate, but are different (I think)... and a playstyle that seems to be growing.

There are folks that want the content to be group content, but not so difficult it requires a perfect group to complete.

My point is that there are so many different variations of this debate that it becomes difficult to have a point that isn't assumed to be in a faction you don't really stand with.

For me personally, I like that there are areas and creatures that can't be defeated by one adventurer. It makes Norrath feel more real and alive for me.

However, I think I fall in the "experience the content" crowd. Since launch, I've always liked the idea that the game has group and solo content, but I've always been a little disappointed that it is divided so clearly with the dungeon/overland layout.

The idea of exploring a dungeon solo or with one other person sounds fun and exciting to me. I love those scenarios in books and movies, and I would find it fun in-game. I loved when Beowulf stepped into Grendel's mother's cave alone. It's exciting. I would love to step into some scary dungeon with my wife and the two of us slowly creep through those passageways, wondering what's around the next corner.

My main issue with grouping isn't that I'm anti-social and it certainly isn't that I have any problems with group content. It should be there, and I'm glad it is. And the rewards should be better. My only issue is that the style by which dungeons are explored with full groups is flat out the opposite of the way I like to explore a dungeon. I like a slow pace. I like taking wrong turns, and I like getting lost. I like feeling like I'm exploring a dungeon the way they're explored in a PnP game.

I'm by no means saying my way is better than anyone else's. I'm just saying I don't like blasting through a dungeon, moving at a rapid pace, seeking out nameds because of AA and drops. My best friend loves to play that way, and I don't fault him for it. But there just aren't many players out there that like to slowly explore a dungeon for the sake of exploration.

I've tried putting together groups with this intent, and I usually get replies like, "Sorry, bro. In my experience, exploration groups don't typically get much done." That's completely true, I must admit.

The only solution I can think for that is to have dungeons designed for smaller group (or solo), with lesser rewards that are similar to the rewards in solo quests above ground.

Conversely, I would also like to see more heroic content in the overland zones. One of the best aspects of EQ1 for me was stumbling onto creatures like the Silver Griffon in Karana and looking at my wife and saying, "we'll take the long way around."

I really have no problem with group and solo content. I just wish they were a little more intermingled.

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Old 01-10-2009, 11:22 PM   #258
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Not having a go at you, just making comments on your observations.

scruffylookin wrote:

There are folks that want all the same content and rewards solo that are available for groups.

This would kill any MMO. There are very few things that can be done to kill a successful MMO, but this is one of them, without question.

If grouping does not result in better rewards, people will solo for progression instead of grouping/raiding. If people solo all the time, they will not make the same in game friendships that they do while grouping and raiding, and it is these friendships that keep large numbers of people playing the game.

If those peole that want to group in this game suddenly find that they could get the same level of progression from soloing as they can from groups and raids, they will simply leave the game for one in which rewards groups and raiders in the manner they feel they deserve. If this happens, those people left that will find themselves playing in a very large world, but one which has practically no one left in it.

Since this game is desinged with multipple players in the game at every time, the quests and content in it are less enguaging than a game that is desinged around solo players, sich as the Elder Scrolls series, or NWN. If you remove the rest of the players from the game, as a change like this will largly do, you are left with a watered down version of those single player RPGs, and the argument could then be made as to why those that are happy with that don't simply go off to play them now instead of asking for this game to be ruined to suit htem.

There are folks that don't care about rewards, but just want to experience the content solo.

 Reguardless of what people may think or may want, if you scale back heroic content to fit solo players, you no longer have the same content. If the make a version of Varsoon for solo players, even if he is in the same zone, has the same name, and even if he dropped the same loot, he is not the same Varsoon as the heroic version. Someone that kills the solo version every day for a year will sill have absolutly no idea what the heroic version is, as they would need to be totally different in order for the solo version to be possible.

The same could be said for about 3/4ths of the heroic content in T8, and about 99% of the raid content.

There are folks that want to experience the content, and get the rewards... but at a much slower pace.

 This is awesome. Players thatdo this will get more enjoyment out of the game than the 2 groups above. They will get a sence of satisfaction from killing a new mob that is far greater than anything that can be sccomplished solo, and will see the entire game as it was meant to be - eventually.

There are folks that want to experience the content, and get similar rewards, but scaled down to an appropriate level for soloers (a separate set of rewards for groups and soloers).

 Again, rewards aside, if you are solo you simply can not experiance the same content.

There are folks that think soloers have no place in this game, period.

 These people are even more of a curse to this game than the soloers they like to berate.

There are duoers who are almost always considered soloers in regards to this debate, but are different (I think)... and a playstyle that seems to be growing.

 A good duo has a very large amount of content they can handle. The thing with duos, especially those that only want to play in their duo, is that they need to be very selective about their class.

Even if every class was perfectly balanced in every way, there would be combinations of classes that work well together, and combinations of classes that do not work well together. If a duo rolls whatever class they like the sounds of and then start playing like that, chances are they will have very little content to go through. They will blast through solo content, but anything above that will be out of their reach. If those same two players pick 2 classes that work well as a duo, then they can still blast through that solo content, but then they can also work on some of the heroic content that a lesser combination would have trouble with.

There are folks that want the content to be group content, but not so difficult it requires a perfect group to complete.

This is what we have in game now. The basics of a tank, healer and some DPS is a staple and will never go away (without top level gear), but within that there is a lot of flexability. If you have a tank and healer, grab any other 4 classes in the game and clear Scion of Ice, Evernight Abby, Caverns of the Afflicted,Oblesik of Akhzul or Deep Forge.

The group makup may call for a different tactic in some of these zones, but that is not a requirement placed on the classm, it is one placed on the players (and no, there should not be any content desinged for bad players).

As an example of this, Caverns of the Afflicted. In order to get past the respawning mobs there are three main tactics, each of which will or will not work based on your group. You can AE the mobs 2 groups at a time, moving up slowly to not aggro groups behind you, this will work well in any group with a lot of AE DPS and a good AE tank. You can single target each mob in the encounters, leaving the last one up so the group does not respawn, this works well in any group that has discipline. You can have a FD class train to the mob you kill to stop the respawns, then have the group kill it while the FD class distracts the groups of mobs, this works well in any group with a FD class that has done a lot of shiny farming.

A perfect group is not even required for Palace of Ferzhul. A good one is, but you do not need perfect.

I think the biggest problem in this thread, and others like it, is that people expect the game to be fashioned to their own style of play. They are unwilling to meet the challanges that are set in front of them, and want those challanges altered to meet their specific requirements.

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Old 01-10-2009, 11:43 PM   #259
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Because if you don't have a sense of progression in the game, then why keep playing?

Get a group, & you'll feel that sense of progression.

Translation: Play by my play style because I don't give a halflings @$$ about yours.

Real Translation: progression in this game is Solo > Heroic > Raiding

IOW, when you're totally done with your soloing progression, you move on to the other two, which involve grouping.

If you don't want to do those things ... well, who's responsibility is that?

Honestly, it's that freekin' simple, until SOME people want to over-complicate it with extraneous nonsense

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Old 01-12-2009, 06:03 PM   #260
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Because if you don't have a sense of progression in the game, then why keep playing?

Get a group, & you'll feel that sense of progression.

Translation: Play by my play style because I don't give a halflings @$$ about yours.

Real Translation: progression in this game is Solo > Heroic > Raiding

IOW, when you're totally done with your soloing progression, you move on to the other two, which involve grouping.

If you don't want to do those things ... well, who's responsibility is that?

Honestly, it's that freekin' simple, until SOME people want to over-complicate it with extraneous nonsense

Translation: Play by my play style because I don't give a halflings @$$ about yours.

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Old 01-12-2009, 06:19 PM   #261
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All I know is that one my favorite zones in AOC was the Solo dungeon pyramid.  It was time consuming, challenging and had a decent reward.

I would love to see something similiar in Everquest.  A zone that would take 1 to 2 hours to solo,  make the zone a persistent zone, in case you can't finish in one night,  have a challenging boss at the end, a lockout timer and decent loot.

I don't really see the big deal if a person wants to solo for a shard.  Give a shard quest with 1 shard reward.  Give a random chance for the end boss to give a shard drop as part of the loot table.  If you make this zone challenging and give an 18 hour lockout, don't really see the difference from this and the DD.

I like grouping, but there are some nights I just don't feel like dealing with others, but want to play EQ2.  This is a nice compromise.

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Old 01-12-2009, 06:37 PM   #262
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[email protected] wrote:

All I know is that one my favorite zones in AOC was the Solo dungeon pyramid.  It was time consuming, challenging and had a decent reward.

I would love to see something similiar in Everquest.  A zone that would take 1 to 2 hours to solo,  make the zone a persistent zone, in case you can't finish in one night,  have a challenging boss at the end, a lockout timer and decent loot.

I don't really see the big deal if a person wants to solo for a shard.  Give a shard quest with 1 shard reward.  Give a random chance for the end boss to give a shard drop as part of the loot table.  If you make this zone challenging and give an 18 hour lockout, don't really see the difference from this and the DD.

I like grouping, but there are some nights I just don't feel like dealing with others, but want to play EQ2.  This is a nice compromise.

The DD is a random dungeon and gets people out to try things they normally would not try. Shards and "decent" loot should not be available for people on the same level as group zones.

Shard are and should stay a reward for a group function in a multi player game.

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Old 01-12-2009, 06:40 PM   #263
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Yella wrote:

Translation: Play by my play style because I don't give a halflings @$$ about yours.

solo content,tradeskill content>group content>raid content 

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Old 01-12-2009, 06:43 PM   #264
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I am not sure if this has been mentioned (cant force myself to reread all the zillion pages again)

I really think solo shard missions could work the same way solo crafting missions work.  We can only do one a week, versus one a day in the "group" missions. The reward choices are the same, it just takes you a LOT longer to get there if all you do is a once a week solo mission.

If its already been mentioned....sorry!

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Old 01-12-2009, 06:56 PM   #265
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Yella wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Because if you don't have a sense of progression in the game, then why keep playing?

Get a group, & you'll feel that sense of progression.

Translation: Play by my play style because I don't give a halflings @$$ about yours.

Real Translation: progression in this game is Solo > Heroic > Raiding

IOW, when you're totally done with your soloing progression, you move on to the other two, which involve grouping.

If you don't want to do those things ... well, who's responsibility is that?

Honestly, it's that freekin' simple, until SOME people want to over-complicate it with extraneous nonsense

Translation: Play by my play style because I don't give a halflings @$$ about yours.

Couldn't your comment be 'translated' as exactly the same way?  Translation: Develop the game entirely around around my play style because I could care less about any other.

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Old 01-12-2009, 07:36 PM   #266
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Rijacki wrote:

Yella wrote:

Translation: Play by my play style because I don't give a halflings @$$ about yours.

Couldn't your comment be 'translated' as exactly the same way?  Translation: Develop the game entirely around around my play style because I could care less about any other.

Rjack, I thought the same thing the first time this comment was made. 

Besides which, I care about soloing.  I care a lot about soloing.  I solo quite a bit.  Some days, I may be on at an odd hour and find that soloing is really my only option.  Other days, I don't want to deal with the hassle of a group.  Still other days, I know that I'll have to go AFK quite a bit and it's not fair to anyone I would group with to have to put up with me constantly away from the keyboard.

When I solo, I enjoy hitting harder and harder content.  I enjoy finding ways to challenge myself.  I enjoy finding faster ways to get through the content I've already hit. 

Other days, I group. 

Yella, this isn't about "US" versus "THEM".  It's about different types of content...and we all have access to all of the content.   There is no game mechanic preventing someone who soloes from grouping also.  There is no game mechanic that prevents anyone who prefers grouping from soloing.  The content in the game is already 100% accessible to everyone who plays. 

If you want more solo content, I'm right there with you.  I also want more group content, tradeskill content, raid content, guild content, minigame content, lore content, - MORE, MORE, MORE, MORE.  I want more. 

The problem here is that you're not just asking for more, Yella.  You're asking for the same rewards I get through content you're not able or willing to work through.  You don't just want more.  You want what I have...without putting forth the effort I put forth.  I simply don't agree with that perspective, Yella. 

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Old 01-12-2009, 08:06 PM   #267
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Yella wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Because if you don't have a sense of progression in the game, then why keep playing?

Get a group, & you'll feel that sense of progression.

Translation: Play by my play style because I don't give a halflings @$$ about yours.

Real Translation: progression in this game is Solo > Heroic > Raiding

IOW, when you're totally done with your soloing progression, you move on to the other two, which involve grouping.

If you don't want to do those things ... well, who's responsibility is that?

Honestly, it's that freekin' simple, until SOME people want to over-complicate it with extraneous nonsense

Translation: Play by my play style because I don't give a halflings @$$ about yours.

Translation of Yella's comment: "I don't actually have any argument at all, & don't wish to read the post to which I'm responding, so I'll post a straw man & hope nobody notices."

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Old 01-12-2009, 08:44 PM   #268
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Kendricke wrote:

The problem here is that you're not just asking for more, Yella.  You're asking for the same rewards I get through content you're not able or willing to work through.  You don't just want more.  You want what I have...without putting forth the effort I put forth.  I simply don't agree with that perspective, Yella. 

One small correction, I think. There is no "not able to", it is only "not willing to".

If one was willing to put forth the effort to group to complete group content, they ARE able to.  Yes, the effort to form a group may be more on some servers than others and during some time spans vs others, but that doesn't change its availablity if one is willing to put in the effort.

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