EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

 

Go Back   EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire > EverQuest II > General EverQuest II Discussion > Zones and Population
Members List Search Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-09-2008, 12:21 PM   #31
Noaani

Loremaster
Noaani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,077
Default

Lethe5683 wrote:

I've had one piece below 75 and a few below 77 that I only recently replaced with shard gear and there was nothing better whatsoever in any RoK group zone.  So that really isn't true.

For mitigation and resists, it is true. Since the post you quoted was talking about mitigation, what he said is accurate.

The mitigation on a level 75 piece of gear should be considered that items mitigation when equipped on a level 75 player fighting a level 75 mob. Even though your persona window does not represent this well, the higher level you are above an item, the less mitigation and resists you gain from it.

The easiest way to see this on your persona window is to empty a charm slot. Look at your heat resist number, the hover your mouse over it and look at your heat resist percent. Now equip the Heritage Quest reward Guise of the Deciever (you can do this with any item with ~300 to a resist that is below level 40) in that empty charm slot. If you have your persona window open as you equip it, you will notice your heat resistance number go up. If you then hover your mouse over your heat resistance, you will notice that the percentage of heat damage that you are resisting has gone down, so you are more vulrable to heat damage with this item on than without it.

The degrageation of gear over 4 - 5 levels is not really noticable without parsing a few hours of log files from some dedicated testing, but more than 5 levels and you start to see a noticable effect. 10 levels is about the max you can get away with, and only if the item has rediculous effects on it. At 15 levels, a plate tank would be better off wearing level 80 chain than 65 plate.

__________________

The superior man knows what is right.
The inferior man knows what will sell.

Confucius

Noaani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2008, 12:53 PM   #32
Banditman

Loremaster
Banditman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,459
Default

If raw survival is your problem, you need to be ditching everything below L77.  If you are surviving, but having trouble holding aggro, perhaps you consider some sort of lower level piece with a large impact on your hate gain.

What I was reading was that people were having trouble surviving.  Take my advice or not, it doesn't matter to me.  I know that these "rules" hold up to testing very well.

As has been said, it's not represented very well in the UI, but nonetheless, if you dig at it hard enough, you can prove them.  By either accepting them here or proving them yourself, you gain a significant advantage over most "casual" or "pickup" tanks in the game with regards to gear selection.

__________________
Banditman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2008, 09:26 AM   #33
Yella

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 134
Default

[email protected] wrote:

Casual means different things to different people.

My personal view on it is that casual is a state of mind that has absolutely nothing to do with sucess ratings. It's the belief that you can log into the game and play it when and how you want, raid a few times a week, see all of the content that the game has to offer, without dealing with mandatory raid participation and etc etc etc.

That being said...our guild just recently start flagging for VP. Most of our guild is geared up in RoK Instance loot + some T1 - T3 fabled gear. I personally found the TSO legendary shard gear to be pretty [Removed for Content] good for my guardian. I've got the full set already, and it was far superior to anything I pulled out of RoK when you include the set bonuses.

Regular shard armor = better than ROK legendary, on par with t1-t2 RoK fabled

Advanced shard armor = worse than VP, on par with t3 RoK fabled.

Most of our guild is now geared up in 4-5 of the set pieces + epics + anywhere from 4-6 fabled RoK raid drops. We only have a handful of mythicals. We are not "hardcore", but we are successful. I've personally cleared almost all of the TSO dungeons by this point, with the exception of the Guk instances because, quite frankly, I don't think we have the gear quite yet in terms of DPS (fabled epics just don't cut it in some cases: some of these encounters are tuned towards players having their mythicals, and I'm fine with that. Gives us something more to achieve and look forward to).

I've said all that to say this: TSO is not meant for the weak-hearted. This is an expansion primarily designed with players who thrive on challenge rating in mind. I have yet to see a single tank-and-spank encounter in TSO. Do they require raid gear? Absolutely not. We were able to complete all 3 Everfrost dungeons on the first try with RoK instance legendary and a few RoK raid fabled pieces + regular fabled epics. We cleared Abbey, Deep Forge, Nu'Roga, Veksar, and I believe Hollow Tower with the same gear. Then we started getting the set pieces. Since then we've cleared Manor, the second Befallen zone, Kor-sha, the first two Void instances...basically we have cleared all but the 3 Guk zones, the final Void dungeon, and the last Befallen one...Necrotic Asylum. Will we do them? Yep. But we aren't even bothering to try at present until we finish gearing up, because we know in advance that A) those dungeons require better gear than we have and B) Sony isn't yet finished tuning a lot of these encounters and there are still a lot of bugs.

Strats will vary depending on your group setup. TSO requires the ability to think on the fly and adapt your strategies accordingly. We run 4-5 different groups per night in our guild and EACH group takes the dungeons in a different way each time depending on the group makeup. The ability to free-think and adapt to the situation is what makes or break groups in this expansion. While gear is important, player skill and the ability to adapt play an equally important role.

You do realize that you are pretty much describing hard-core players. By the sounds of it, your guild is organized and far from casual.

Yella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2008, 09:38 AM   #34
Yella

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 134
Default

Noaani wrote:

Lethe5683 wrote:

Name 12 instances that a non-tso geared casual pick up group can clear.

Oblisk of AhkzulAnchor of BazzulScion of IceThe AnathemaThe CrucibleEvernight AbbyMistmyr ManorCavern of the AfflictedVeksarNu'RogaDeep ForgeNajena's Hollow Tower

Now, this list is perfectly doable by a casual group of players in a pickup group, all of whom are in RoK non raid gear, but is not doable by any group of players that suck. There is an important distinction here, in that casual =/= bad player. Some casual players suck, but there are also many casual players that are very good, and the spectrum in between is fully represented.

Some of these instances require the ability problem solve and the ability to give directions in a manner in which they will be correctly followed. On top of this, the ability to motivate random strangers to carry on while wiping to a mob 4 or 5 times while the group perfects the excecution of the strat is helpful in order to prevent the group from breaking up.

FYI, I have tanked every one of these instances on my non raid geared guardian in pickup groups, so I know from first hand experiance that they are all clearable by non raid geared pickup groups.

Edit: I do not doubt you will attempt a claim that some of these zones are not able to be done by a casual group, and/or that you have failed to pull a group through some of these zones (which means either that group was missing the qualities I listed above, or that group had an actual bad player or three). I am quite happy to post you a basic outline of how to deal with the harder parts of a few of these zones, in a manner I would discribe to people in a random pickup.

The problem with this is that people's concept of what a "casual" player is varies. You will see very few people who describe themselves as "hardcore", but any group of people who gets together and plays in the manner you describe as "good" are allmost certainly hardcore. A hardcore player is not necessarily some uber raider, it is a player who takes gameplay seriously. Being good comes from practice. Lots and lots of it. There isnt any other way. A casual player is very unlikely to be good in the sense you are talking out.

These "bad" players you are talking about are the actual casual players, not you.

Let me give you an example. Tennis players. Maybe you belong to a tennis club, and play weekend competitions and all those sort of thing, but think of your self as "casual". For you, the hardcore players are the folk who play on the international circuit. But that is not true. There are a great many other players who don't belong to any tennis club, but occasionally go to a court and smack some balls around. Those are the real casual players, not you. Allthough you dont play at international levels, you belong to an organization and compete within that, which by definition makes you hard core. You take it seriously, unlike those "bad" players who knock the ball about on the school tennis court.

Yella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2008, 10:30 AM   #35
Vanderlay

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 175
Default

I guess it all depends on your definition of casual.  I consider myself a mix between casual and hardcore.  I log on most nights, do some solo quests waiting to either form a group or see one being advertised in level chat.  If it's a place I want to go, then I join.  If not, then I continue soloing until I see one I want.  As a tank I would have to say that some of these mobs are "tricky", but should be able to be killed.  I don't expect to be able to walk into a new zone and run through it without wiping.  That would be too easy then.  I'm not the best geared tank in the world, but I haven't had the opportunity to really improve my gear as I have limited play times.  But I do know how to tank, pull a mob, and hold aggro.  I like the new instances just the way they are and I like the fact that I can't just walk into Guk and own the place.  The progression here now is by far the best I've seen from SOE in years.

Vanderlay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2008, 02:42 PM   #36
EQ2Magroo

Loremaster
EQ2Magroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 756
Default

Noaani wrote:

Oblisk of AhkzulScion of IceEvernight AbbyDeep ForgeNajena's Hollow Tower

I've only done these 5 zones so far, and have managed to clear them each time with a pick-up group.

The key is to a) not suck b) work as a group and c) know your strategy.

For example, the last named in Scion seems to cause soem groups problems. If you just try to burn him then you will likely fail, but stuns make a world of difference. If you can co-ordinate your stuns between group members then your healers can almost AFK.

EQ2Magroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2008, 07:22 PM   #37
greenmantle

Loremaster
greenmantle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 769
Default

Noaani wrote:

Lethe5683 wrote:

Name 12 instances that a non-tso geared casual pick up group can clear.

Oblisk of AhkzulAnchor of BazzulScion of IceThe AnathemaThe CrucibleEvernight AbbyMistmyr ManorCavern of the AfflictedVeksarNu'RogaDeep ForgeNajena's Hollow Tower

Now, this list is perfectly doable by a casual group of players in a pickup group, all of whom are in RoK non raid gear, but is not doable by any group of players that suck. There is an important distinction here, in that casual =/= bad player. Some casual players suck, but there are also many casual players that are very good, and the spectrum in between is fully represented.

Some of these instances require the ability problem solve and the ability to give directions in a manner in which they will be correctly followed. On top of this, the ability to motivate random strangers to carry on while wiping to a mob 4 or 5 times while the group perfects the excecution of the strat is helpful in order to prevent the group from breaking up.

FYI, I have tanked every one of these instances on my non raid geared guardian in pickup groups, so I know from first hand experiance that they are all clearable by non raid geared pickup groups.

Edit: I do not doubt you will attempt a claim that some of these zones are not able to be done by a casual group, and/or that you have failed to pull a group through some of these zones (which means either that group was missing the qualities I listed above, or that group had an actual bad player or three). I am quite happy to post you a basic outline of how to deal with the harder parts of a few of these zones, in a manner I would discribe to people in a random pickup.

Seeing we apparently suck i would love to know your suggestions for the twins in Mistmyr, group with a few TSO pieces each, temp, warden, dirge , necro , monk , pally all 80 ok not a perfect group , dps lite and no real cc. We didnt contemplate doing the celing dropper but thought we could muddle through with perhaps a few more problems than those better geared. Monk knew the zone some what so warned us about the twins, the debuffs and the swaps. Each time they swaped the tank had hell getting agro back, was getting stiffled apparently some times which didnt help.

I do wonder when people say casual players what they have, 6 friends that group but dont raid or a pick up where a few are having friday night drinks or some where inbetween. 

I  swim 3 to 4 miles 4 times a week most people dont call that casual, i guess i should be hitting 2 zones a night 4 times a week just to gear up to do heroic content, thats really not casual in my books thats mini raid progression.

greenmantle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2008, 08:40 PM   #38
Meirril

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,552
Default

greenmantle wrote:

Seeing we apparently suck i would love to know your suggestions for the twins in Mistmyr, group with a few TSO pieces each, temp, warden, dirge , necro , monk , pally all 80 ok not a perfect group , dps lite and no real cc. We didnt contemplate doing the celing dropper but thought we could muddle through with perhaps a few more problems than those better geared. Monk knew the zone some what so warned us about the twins, the debuffs and the swaps. Each time they swaped the tank had hell getting agro back, was getting stiffled apparently some times which didnt help.

I do wonder when people say casual players what they have, 6 friends that group but dont raid or a pick up where a few are having friday night drinks or some where inbetween. 

I  swim 3 to 4 miles 4 times a week most people dont call that casual, i guess i should be hitting 2 zones a night 4 times a week just to gear up to do heroic content, thats really not casual in my books thats mini raid progression.

I think you hit on what really bothers me about this expansion. Progression.

If anyone remembes the first month of RoK and was a casual player then, you'd remember that non-raid geared tanks leveled to 80 and then hit CoA and VoES to gear up. Maidens was clearly a more difficult instance and you didn't do that until you had at least half a set of 77+ armor. Chelsith was worse. Oh, and CoB was easy and run to try and farm masters while you could do the quest 6 times per instance. Once it became once per instance, nobody wanted to go there twice.

RoK had a clear progression. Go here, do that in this order and everything should be fine. TSO lacks any clear progression. The "easy" to "hard" of these zones is figuring out the scripts. The actual difficulty of the mobs has nothing to do with these descriptions. For instance, I think the Bonegrinder from Caverns of the Afflicted is much more difficult than any mob in the Asylum. Why? Honestly its because the mobs in the Asylum don't hit nearly as hard as the Bonegrinder. Sure, every major fight in the Asylum is heavly scripted and amounts to jumping through hoops like a trained lion but the mob itself isn't taking me down in 2 hits. Bonegrinder is a straight tank and spank, but hits like a truck.

I'm thinking that even for a second expansion, you need a clear progression. All of this will be settled in a few months after people gear up in TSO and earn 200 AA points,but its a clear demonstration in a lack of consideration by the producers of the game for guiding players into content.

Meirril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2008, 09:53 PM   #39
greenmantle

Loremaster
greenmantle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 769
Default

I'm thinking that even for a second expansion, you need a clear progression. All of this will be settled in a few months after people gear up in TSO and earn 200 AA points,but its a clear demonstration in a lack of consideration by the producers of the game for guiding players into content.

Excellent point, people seem to think, xxx is the daily double we should be going there a little more clarity would save some anguish

greenmantle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2008, 08:20 AM   #40
Nuhus

Loremaster
Nuhus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,480
Default

What I'd like to see is a the easier zones be approchable by a pickup group and able to get by with 4 well played characters. I think they need to be a little more approchable to people starting the new instances. I'm not saying easy easy, but eaier than they are now. The last thing I'd want to do is take a pug into one of these instances. It would be good if some zones eased you into TSO and help you learn without really frustratin the other group members.

__________________
SOE will kill off EQ2 before it would naturally die.. 11/10/2004-9/19/2010 - for me

Nuhus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2008, 10:14 AM   #41
Thanon
Server: Runnyeye

Loremaster
Thanon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 51
Default

Any easier and they'd be GIVING the loot away.

Come on, people. If  you can't handle: 

Oblisk of AhkzulAnchor of BazzulScion of IceThe AnathemaThe CrucibleEvernight AbbyMistmyr ManorCavern of the AfflictedVeksarNu'RogaDeep ForgeNajena's Hollow Tower

...with a pickup group and/or RoK legendary gear, then you fail at playing.

Every single one of those zones is *exceptionally* easy once you figure out the strategies. I walked into these zones (with the exception of Nu'Roga and Veksar...I still haven't done them yet, although many of our guild have) with RoK legendary and my fabled epic on my guardian + the shield from SoH. Everyone else in my guild started TSO in mostly RoK legendary/fabled, with a few RoK raid fabled. We had *zero* issues clearing these zones from the get-go.

Within the first 6 days of the expansion I had my first 5 pieces of TSO shard armor + 2 jewelery items, and a couple of nice drops. Since then I've added the shoulders and am working on my Advanced armor now. I've ran guild groups at nights, but have also done pickup groups during the daytime hours and with the exception of the two I mentioned, I have ran PUG groups through every single one of those zones with ZERO issues.

If you can't clear the above dungeons in RoK legendary, then face the music. You probably need some advice on how to play your class better, and/or the players you normally group with need some advice as well. Once you have the strats down you can run ALL of the above instances within an hour, hour and a half at MOST. My wife and I have the 3 Everfrost dungeons down to a science atm for shard farming on both mains and alts. You can walk in and run those 3 dungeons back to back INCLUDING killing all the named and be in and out within 3 hours. Add a quick 30 minute Deep Forge run and at minimum you just walked away with 8 shards for 4 hours worth of work, which is around the average session people play.

I've now got a guardian in 6 pieces + jewlery and working on his Advanced set, and my Ranger is only lacking his 6th piece for the initial shard set...and I haven't even done my epic yet on my ranger. He's using the freaking Snaggletooth bow from Seb. These dungeons do *NOT* require mythical or VP to complete. They require strategy and competent players who don't fail at their classes.

Thanon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2008, 01:17 PM   #42
DngrMou

General
DngrMou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,286
Default

Meirril wrote:

Thunndar316 wrote:

I think that players who solo all the time with little grouping experience will have trouble in TSO. You can't just tank and spank your way through it. These instances are more like mini raids, and the same rules apply as on regular raids. Guilds and groups who work together all the time will fair much better than pickups.

I'm not sure how this applies at all. I'm grouping with the same people I did all of RoK with. We've read strats on these zones. Like I said, TSO's tier 2 shard armor is mostly a downgrade for me except for the crit mittigation.

So, if we're fairing much better than pick up groups, does that indicate that pick up groups are mostly dead? Does it mean that people that don't have the time to devote to raiding should cancel their subscriptions and go find a more casual friendly game? Should I troll the solo content? Should I join the rest of the server and just go into a mentored instance?

And yeah, it is a lot like raiding. We read up on the strats, tried to follow them. Wiped time after time. Went out, repaired and came back. Its exactly like raiding. Raiding isn't causal. Raiding isn't even fun. Its just a huge time sink to keep you playing the game and the money flowing into SOE. There are huge rewards from raids that can't be obtained without raiding. That is the reason you put up with raiding. Why exactly am I going through the frustrations of a raid without the chance of an equal reward? Or are the instance drops actually as good as tier 1 raids?

People wanted challenging content.  It's here....and along with it comes a lot of solo quests, and at least 4 easy to complete instances, (for shards), and another instance which is easy, fun, and rewards a nice bit of cash to everyone at the end.  I don't quite get what the problem is.  I see PUG's LFM all the time for TSO instances.  Several of my guildies participate in PUG's on a regular basis, and have managed to complete harder instances.

The instances are raid like, in that the Tank n' Spank style of dungeon clearing is not going to work.  The mobs are smarter, and have some tricks that you have to figure out how to circumvent, and this approach does not, imo, put those instances outside the reach of 'casual' players.  You may not finish the dungeon on your first run through, but with some effort, you will eventually make it. 

Last I checked, "Instant Gratification" was not a synonym for "Casual".

DngrMou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2008, 06:36 PM   #43
Nuhus

Loremaster
Nuhus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,480
Default

[email protected] wrote:

Any easier and they'd be GIVING the loot away.

Come on, people. If  you can't handle: 

Oblisk of AhkzulAnchor of BazzulScion of IceThe AnathemaThe CrucibleEvernight AbbyMistmyr ManorCavern of the AfflictedVeksarNu'RogaDeep ForgeNajena's Hollow Tower

...with a pickup group and/or RoK legendary gear, then you fail at playing.

Every single one of those zones is *exceptionally* easy once you figure out the strategies. I walked into these zones (with the exception of Nu'Roga and Veksar...I still haven't done them yet, although many of our guild have) with RoK legendary and my fabled epic on my guardian + the shield from SoH. Everyone else in my guild started TSO in mostly RoK legendary/fabled, with a few RoK raid fabled. We had *zero* issues clearing these zones from the get-go.

Within the first 6 days of the expansion I had my first 5 pieces of TSO shard armor + 2 jewelery items, and a couple of nice drops. Since then I've added the shoulders and am working on my Advanced armor now. I've ran guild groups at nights, but have also done pickup groups during the daytime hours and with the exception of the two I mentioned, I have ran PUG groups through every single one of those zones with ZERO issues.

If you can't clear the above dungeons in RoK legendary, then face the music. You probably need some advice on how to play your class better, and/or the players you normally group with need some advice as well. Once you have the strats down you can run ALL of the above instances within an hour, hour and a half at MOST. My wife and I have the 3 Everfrost dungeons down to a science atm for shard farming on both mains and alts. You can walk in and run those 3 dungeons back to back INCLUDING killing all the named and be in and out within 3 hours. Add a quick 30 minute Deep Forge run and at minimum you just walked away with 8 shards for 4 hours worth of work, which is around the average session people play.

I've now got a guardian in 6 pieces + jewlery and working on his Advanced set, and my Ranger is only lacking his 6th piece for the initial shard set...and I haven't even done my epic yet on my ranger. He's using the freaking Snaggletooth bow from Seb. These dungeons do *NOT* require mythical or VP to complete. They require strategy and competent players who don't fail at their classes.

Keep in mind the zones scale, so not everyone running them is going to be in RoK legendary. Not only that, but most RoK legendary you have to be 78 - 80 to wear. (dropped, not quested). People that are running the scaled instances are most likely wearing MC gear. Not RoK gear. Honestly I think the scaling is still fairly off yet.

__________________
SOE will kill off EQ2 before it would naturally die.. 11/10/2004-9/19/2010 - for me

Nuhus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 11:08 AM   #44
Thanon
Server: Runnyeye

Loremaster
Thanon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 51
Default

Nuhus wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Any easier and they'd be GIVING the loot away.

Come on, people. If  you can't handle: 

Oblisk of AhkzulAnchor of BazzulScion of IceThe AnathemaThe CrucibleEvernight AbbyMistmyr ManorCavern of the AfflictedVeksarNu'RogaDeep ForgeNajena's Hollow Tower

...with a pickup group and/or RoK legendary gear, then you fail at playing.

Every single one of those zones is *exceptionally* easy once you figure out the strategies. I walked into these zones (with the exception of Nu'Roga and Veksar...I still haven't done them yet, although many of our guild have) with RoK legendary and my fabled epic on my guardian + the shield from SoH. Everyone else in my guild started TSO in mostly RoK legendary/fabled, with a few RoK raid fabled. We had *zero* issues clearing these zones from the get-go.

Within the first 6 days of the expansion I had my first 5 pieces of TSO shard armor + 2 jewelery items, and a couple of nice drops. Since then I've added the shoulders and am working on my Advanced armor now. I've ran guild groups at nights, but have also done pickup groups during the daytime hours and with the exception of the two I mentioned, I have ran PUG groups through every single one of those zones with ZERO issues.

If you can't clear the above dungeons in RoK legendary, then face the music. You probably need some advice on how to play your class better, and/or the players you normally group with need some advice as well. Once you have the strats down you can run ALL of the above instances within an hour, hour and a half at MOST. My wife and I have the 3 Everfrost dungeons down to a science atm for shard farming on both mains and alts. You can walk in and run those 3 dungeons back to back INCLUDING killing all the named and be in and out within 3 hours. Add a quick 30 minute Deep Forge run and at minimum you just walked away with 8 shards for 4 hours worth of work, which is around the average session people play.

I've now got a guardian in 6 pieces + jewlery and working on his Advanced set, and my Ranger is only lacking his 6th piece for the initial shard set...and I haven't even done my epic yet on my ranger. He's using the freaking Snaggletooth bow from Seb. These dungeons do *NOT* require mythical or VP to complete. They require strategy and competent players who don't fail at their classes.

Keep in mind the zones scale, so not everyone running them is going to be in RoK legendary. Not only that, but most RoK legendary you have to be 78 - 80 to wear. (dropped, not quested). People that are running the scaled instances are most likely wearing MC gear. Not RoK gear. Honestly I think the scaling is still fairly off yet.

Not true. I've ran several ( not all, mind you) of those dungeons with my MC alt (ranger) with a MC paladin, MC wizard, MC troubadour, and a couple of other guildies on our alts and these dungeons have proved only slightly more difficult.

It's all about the strategies. Once you get the strategies down the zones are a cake-walk. There are no excuses as to why people can't do these zones, other than pure failure at knowing how to play their class and work well as a team and do more than just tank and spank.

Tank and spank = fail. Ability to think outside the box = win.

Thanon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 01:26 PM   #45
Noaani

Loremaster
Noaani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,077
Default

Yella wrote:

The problem with this is that people's concept of what a "casual" player is varies. You will see very few people who describe themselves as "hardcore", but any group of people who gets together and plays in the manner you describe as "good" are allmost certainly hardcore. A hardcore player is not necessarily some uber raider, it is a player who takes gameplay seriously. Being good comes from practice. Lots and lots of it. There isnt any other way. A casual player is very unlikely to be good in the sense you are talking out.

These "bad" players you are talking about are the actual casual players, not you.

Let me give you an example. Tennis players. Maybe you belong to a tennis club, and play weekend competitions and all those sort of thing, but think of your self as "casual". For you, the hardcore players are the folk who play on the international circuit. But that is not true. There are a great many other players who don't belong to any tennis club, but occasionally go to a court and smack some balls around. Those are the real casual players, not you. Allthough you dont play at international levels, you belong to an organization and compete within that, which by definition makes you hard core. You take it seriously, unlike those "bad" players who knock the ball about on the school tennis court.

In order to have enough experiance on a given character, and to be good enough with that class to be able to perform well in any of the above instances, all a player need do is level that character from 1 - 80, and run each of the RoK instances in a full group for practise.

Using your tennis example, running Scion of Ice in a full group is about the equivlent of hitting a tennis ball against a brick wall 5 times in a row. While it takes a small amount of coordernation, it should be picked up by anyone of sound body and mind in less than 5 minutes.

For that particular zone (and all the zones I listed above), gear is not an issue. The limiting factor to those zones (and thus, the reason they are considered the easier TSO zones) is player ability and understanding.

Oh, and fyi, once again, in your tennis example, I would probably be considered on the *internation circuit*, though would not be in the top 10. However, when I get on my alts, I am suddenly playing a different sport altogether, and would be more an enthusiastic amature than anything else.

__________________

The superior man knows what is right.
The inferior man knows what will sell.

Confucius

Noaani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 01:51 PM   #46
Noaani

Loremaster
Noaani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,077
Default

greenmantle wrote:

Seeing we apparently suck i would love to know your suggestions for the twins in Mistmyr, group with a few TSO pieces each, temp, warden, dirge , necro , monk , pally all 80 ok not a perfect group , dps lite and no real cc. We didnt contemplate doing the celing dropper but thought we could muddle through with perhaps a few more problems than those better geared. Monk knew the zone some what so warned us about the twins, the debuffs and the swaps. Each time they swaped the tank had hell getting agro back, was getting stiffled apparently some times which didnt help.

Not knowing where your group was failing, I'll try and answer this as best I can.

First, when they switch, make sure the entire group is away from the rooted mob. Reguardless of hate positions or taunts, if a mob only has 1 player or pet within melee range and they are unable to move, they will attack that player. 

Second, when they switch, there is a memblur or hate list shuffle (have not figured out which yet). When this happens, your tank needs to regain aggro asap. Assuming the paladin is tanking, and has amends on the monk (most logical with no more info than what you have given), then both the paladin and the monk need to be sure to have high hitting spells/CAs up each time the mobs switch (an amends target should always be aware that they often need to act as a taunter for the paladin, and that sometimes that is more important than outright DPS). The stifle should not be too much of an issue with the switch, but be sure to have the templar cast Sanctuary when it is up and a switch is due (especially nearer the end of the fight).

Meirril wrote:

RoK had a clear progression. Go here, do that in this order and everything should be fine. TSO lacks any clear progression. The "easy" to "hard" of these zones is figuring out the scripts. The actual difficulty of the mobs has nothing to do with these descriptions. For instance, I think the Bonegrinder from Caverns of the Afflicted is much more difficult than any mob in the Asylum. Why? Honestly its because the mobs in the Asylum don't hit nearly as hard as the Bonegrinder. Sure, every major fight in the Asylum is heavly scripted and amounts to jumping through hoops like a trained lion but the mob itself isn't taking me down in 2 hits. Bonegrinder is a straight tank and spank, but hits like a truck.

The TSO heroic progression list should be viewed as a guide, not an outright list of easiest > hardest zones.

The developers stated that for the most part, the ratings these zones were given was based largly on the scripts contained within, with a smaller amount of their placing being based on things like their HP or DPS.

The other thing to be aware of here is the fact that some groups of people will find different challanges easier or harder than other groups. A lot of people find the tank and spank nature of Bonegrinder exceptioonally easy, yet are unable to deal with heavily scripted scenarios. Some groups are able to deal with encounters that require high AE DPS (Hollow Tower), but simply do not have high single target DPS. Some groups are able to survive through any amount of adds, but have the DPS of a wet paper bag.

The range of zones in TSO is huge, and the range of challanges presented is equally huge. Obviously very few (non raid geared) groups are able to simply form up and run every zone, but any group that forms will have zones they are able to run. It will be much better in a few more weeks when everyone has run most of the instances with several gropu setups, and wil be able to better understand the needs of each zone, and weigh that up against what their current group can provide.

You are able to deal with heavy scripted events easily, according to your post. Thats cool, run with it. Find out which zones are heavily scripted, and ignore those that are simple tank and spank. It may mean you have to ignore the progression list that is so often posted (and miss interpreted), but it gives you the opportunity to discover for yourself which zones you are and are not able to deal with.

As an added bonus, if you and your group are able to deal with heavy scripts, that means that when you do get the gear (which will be considerably easier if you run high script zones), then you will be able to farm any and all heroic zones.

__________________

The superior man knows what is right.
The inferior man knows what will sell.

Confucius

Noaani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 02:12 PM   #47
Lethe5683

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,351
Default

Noaani wrote:

Lethe5683 wrote:

Name 12 instances that a non-tso geared casual pick up group can clear.

Oblisk of AhkzulAnchor of BazzulScion of IceThe AnathemaThe CrucibleEvernight AbbyMistmyr ManorCavern of the AfflictedVeksarNu'RogaDeep ForgeNajena's Hollow Tower

Now, this list is perfectly doable by a casual group of players in a pickup group, all of whom are in RoK non raid gear, but is not doable by any group of players that suck. There is an important distinction here, in that casual =/= bad player. Some casual players suck, but there are also many casual players that are very good, and the spectrum in between is fully represented.

Some of these instances require the ability problem solve and the ability to give directions in a manner in which they will be correctly followed. On top of this, the ability to motivate random strangers to carry on while wiping to a mob 4 or 5 times while the group perfects the excecution of the strat is helpful in order to prevent the group from breaking up.

FYI, I have tanked every one of these instances on my non raid geared guardian in pickup groups, so I know from first hand experiance that they are all clearable by non raid geared pickup groups.

Edit: I do not doubt you will attempt a claim that some of these zones are not able to be done by a casual group, and/or that you have failed to pull a group through some of these zones (which means either that group was missing the qualities I listed above, or that group had an actual bad player or three). I am quite happy to post you a basic outline of how to deal with the harder parts of a few of these zones, in a manner I would discribe to people in a random pickup.

That's not true at all.  Let me clarify.... being able to clear an instance does not = running it 20+ times with the same group setup.  Many casual players are not used to working very coordinated with the rest of the group or with scripts.  It would take a lot of practice... a good deal more than any non-hardcore player would be willing to take in repair costs.

Lethe5683 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 04:24 PM   #48
Noaani

Loremaster
Noaani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,077
Default

Lethe5683 wrote:

Many casual players are not used to working very coordinated with the rest of the group or with scripts.  It would take a lot of practice... a good deal more than any non-hardcore player would be willing to take in repair costs.

The ability to work as part of a team should not be unnatural to any human being. If a person is unable to follow instructions from someone that either knows the content, or is able to figure out the encounters, then the question I would be asking myself if I were grouped with them is "do they deserve the rewards of what is supposed to be a team effort?"

My likely answer to that question is blatantly "NO", and I make no appologies for that.

Instructions such as "move with the group" (Deep Forge), "don't enguage the mobs until told (one strat for Caverns of the Afflicted), "place the portal right here" (Anchorof Bazzul), "stay close to the mob, even when he boots you out" (Scion of Ice), "do not get within melee range of the mob" (Kor-Sha) or my personal favourate "this is all tank and spank" (OoA) are not hard to follow. They are not multi tasking, they are not being asked to do any thinking, they simply have a single thing they need to think about or do while also doing whatever their job normally is.

If a person is not able to follow an instruction like that, do YOU honestly think they deserve any heroic rewards from this game?

__________________

The superior man knows what is right.
The inferior man knows what will sell.

Confucius

Noaani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 09:51 PM   #49
LordPazuzu

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 2,157
Default

Meirril wrote:

I'm just wondering, does anyone think that the group instances in TSO are ment for casual players?

Is there any actual casual content in TSO?

My paladin is well equipped in RoK era instance gear. I've got half my masters, and the rest are adept 3 spells. I travel with the same group of people that I got most of this gear with. They are similarly equipped.

And yet, anytime we wander by any of the Befallen instances we constantly beat our heads against a wall. We'll be doing fine and then suddenly a named will pull a trick and I go from green to dead in about 2 seconds. This is traveling with 2 healers.

It isn't like we haven't read up on the fight strats. Even with solid information, the mob crits and boom I'm dead. I thought crit mittigation wasn't suppose to be an issue until you got to tier 2 raids? Why is it an issue in instanced content?

So far, I've found that 3 of the instances are do-able for a casual group in RoK gear. Does that mean we're suppose to farm 2 of them for shards until we can afford the tier 2 shard armor? The tier 1 shard armor is a downgrade for my equipment! Heck, most of the tier 2 shard armor isn't as good as half my equipment except for the crit mittigation.

So, what is the deal? Was I suppose to go raiding before TSO came out so I'd be ready for group content?

Just play smarter and gear will mean less. All raid gear does really is allow you to skip some of the zone progression and gives you a greater leeway for making mistakes.  The zones are fine the way they are, they just expect more from you as a player.

LordPazuzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2008, 12:00 AM   #50
bks6721

Loremaster
bks6721's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,593
Default

[email protected] DLere wrote:

Meirril wrote:

I'm just wondering, does anyone think that the group instances in TSO are ment for casual players?

Is there any actual casual content in TSO?

My paladin is well equipped in RoK era instance gear. I've got half my masters, and the rest are adept 3 spells. I travel with the same group of people that I got most of this gear with. They are similarly equipped.

And yet, anytime we wander by any of the Befallen instances we constantly beat our heads against a wall. We'll be doing fine and then suddenly a named will pull a trick and I go from green to dead in about 2 seconds. This is traveling with 2 healers.

It isn't like we haven't read up on the fight strats. Even with solid information, the mob crits and boom I'm dead. I thought crit mittigation wasn't suppose to be an issue until you got to tier 2 raids? Why is it an issue in instanced content?

So far, I've found that 3 of the instances are do-able for a casual group in RoK gear. Does that mean we're suppose to farm 2 of them for shards until we can afford the tier 2 shard armor? The tier 1 shard armor is a downgrade for my equipment! Heck, most of the tier 2 shard armor isn't as good as half my equipment except for the crit mittigation.

So, what is the deal? Was I suppose to go raiding before TSO came out so I'd be ready for group content?

Just play smarter and gear will mean less. All raid gear does really is allow you to skip some of the zone progression and gives you a greater leeway for making mistakes.  The zones are fine the way they are, they just expect more from you as a player.

they expect more from me?   I thought "I" was the customer and SoE is the one that should live up to expectations.. and my only expectation was for me and my guild to do what we've been dong for the last 4 years.  Enjoy new content without endless frustrations.  My ENTIRE guild hates TSO dungeons.  We DON"T raid, we HATE scripts.  My we enjoy running dungeons like we have been doing for a long time.  We can do every dungeon in RoK without too much issue.   We WILL NOT run Deep Forge 40 times just so we can move on to the next dungeon.   My guild can NOT clear RE2 or Veksar.   Think what you will of us but we are players in this game, same as everyone else.  We aren't asking for a handout.. We want the game to be what is was like last year.   A chance at doing stuff without have to be hardcore.  We DON"T run a parser.  We don't min/max like all you other so called casualy players.   We don't even know where the Teir 1 raid zones are in RoK.  Does this make our subscription fees unwanted?

Just wait until I can buy my Void Shards for $5 each and then laugh at all the people that spend all that time grinding DF.

bks6721 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2008, 12:46 AM   #51
Noaani

Loremaster
Noaani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,077
Default

bks6721 wrote:

We DON"T raid, we HATE scripts.

As has been stated by the developers, if you exclude yourself from particular parts of content, then you will find yourself lacking things to do in game. Since you are excluding yourself from raids and from heavily scripted heroic content, you will find less to do than someone that does not exclude these facets of the game.

The funny thing is, you say you can do every RoK dungeon, yet can't/won't/don't do TSO dungeons. Maiden's Chamber is more heavily scripted than about half of the TSO dungeons, if you are able to do that, and enjoy that instance, then I think you are slightly misguided in your "don't like scripts" comment. My assumption is that you don't like scripts you have not figured out, as you probably keep dieing (which obviously no one likes). If this is the case, its not the scripts you don't like, its figuring them out - two totally different propositions. Chances are, when you understand the encounters, and are able to do them with the same ease as VoES, you will see (and hopfully understand) the difference I am talking about here.

Edit:

they expect more from me?   I thought "I" was the customer and SoE is the one that should live up to expectations. 

This commment is nothing short of amusing. EQ2 is not like a movie, where you sit down and leave it up to the producers to entertain you. There is interaction, both with other players and with the content that is provided. Neither of these are present with a movie, but their existance in MMORPGs (the interaction with the content is present in any game) means that the developers will have an expectation for the players.

SoE are providers of interactive entertainment, and more specifically, a form of interactive entertainment that the vast majority of its consumers enjoy having a well thought out, well presented challange placed in front of them. If this is not what you enjoy, I strongly suggest you pick up a different entertainement meduim, something along the lines of stamp collecting may suit you better.

__________________

The superior man knows what is right.
The inferior man knows what will sell.

Confucius

Noaani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2008, 12:32 PM   #52
evilbp

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 74
Default

I'm all for challenging content but the new instances are to much for a casual player. My group of friends have trouble with the easiest instance zones (Scion of Ice). There is something wrong when a group needs two healers to complete the content. Now before I'm jumped on I mean group content not raid. I just don't see why the instances can't scale with lower loot rewards. It would solve all the problems and allow everyone to have new content.

evilbp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2008, 01:12 PM   #53
Thanon
Server: Runnyeye

Loremaster
Thanon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 51
Default

evilbp wrote:

I'm all for challenging content but the new instances are to much for a casual player. My group of friends have trouble with the easiest instance zones (Scion of Ice). There is something wrong when a group needs two healers to complete the content. Now before I'm jumped on I mean group content not raid. I just don't see why the instances can't scale with lower loot rewards. It would solve all the problems and allow everyone to have new content.

Quite a few of the new dungeons do indeed scale, and the rewards do also. For more information see www.eq2i.com (the eq2 wiki)

Scion of Ice is easily done with a solo healer, as are almost all of the TSO dungeons. Of course, it requires A) knowing the scripts; B) having skilled players behind the characters; and C) having a balanced makeup of classes.

Many players are 3 and 4-manning the easier TSO instances, and I'm not talking raid-geared players. I'm talking skilled players who know what they are doing.

Thanon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2008, 02:40 PM   #54
Enoa
Server: Kithicor

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 253
Default

The difficulty of the zones is appropriate.   Don't complain that there are only a handful of easy zones to farm for loot as there is still all the ROK zones that have a few nice peices.    As you gear up/ level aa the tougher zones will become easier/doable.

Many of the TSO zones have already been nerfed.   The sokakar in korsha is a snooze fight now whereas before it was a challenge and fun.   Also the puppet named in Ravenscale is alot easier this past week.   I hope the nerfage stops.   Please keep outer stronghold and palace of ferzhul as is!! 

I like the fact that there is a couple "nizara" type zones where you need a proper selection of classes to succeed.   The epic weapons in ROK were too easy to obtain (at least after chardok and sebelis were nerfed SMILEY ).  I'm glad the signature quest takes some skill to finish.  I enjoythe scripts... a few are a bit annoying but over all they are an improvement over the ol' tank and spank.  

Enoa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2008, 06:42 PM   #55
Bhagpuss

Tester
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 347
Default

bks6721 wrote:

This is why the game for me, a casual player is nearly over.   To me, casual is someone who solo's and groups dungeons occasionally.   The last time I raided was back  in EoF.   I don't care to ever do it again.   SoE has taken everything I disliked about raiding and applied it to the casual content that I previously enjoyed.

I have gone into some of the EASY (green) dungeons and seen 11k hp tanks die in two hits or less.   It /boggles me that this is fun to anyone.    The vast majority of the lvl 80's in my guild now just spent time on lower level alts instead of enjoying the new content.

I'm SURE there are people the just love the new dungeons and the scripts.   I play a templar because I enjoy grouping, she rarely solos at all.   Currently I can admit I am not enjoying the grouping.  Wiping, rebuffing 10 times isn't FUN to me.

I don't even plan on setting foot in the dungeons. I detest scripting. I don't play MMOs for puzzles. I could play umpteen free browser games if I wanted that kind of gameplay and save myself the monthly sub.

"Tank and spank", or "combat" as I'd call it is what I expect, if I plan on fighting at all. The baddie stands there and tries to kill us and we try to stop him, end of story. We don't rehearse some abstruse gavotte over and over until both sides have their steps by heart.

The further MMOs in general go down this path of puzzle-solving, the less they ressemble the RPGs that brought me to them in the first place, and the more like arcade games they become.

Bhagpuss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2008, 06:49 PM   #56
Thanon
Server: Runnyeye

Loremaster
Thanon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 51
Default

Bhagpuss wrote:

bks6721 wrote:

This is why the game for me, a casual player is nearly over.   To me, casual is someone who solo's and groups dungeons occasionally.   The last time I raided was back  in EoF.   I don't care to ever do it again.   SoE has taken everything I disliked about raiding and applied it to the casual content that I previously enjoyed.

I have gone into some of the EASY (green) dungeons and seen 11k hp tanks die in two hits or less.   It /boggles me that this is fun to anyone.    The vast majority of the lvl 80's in my guild now just spent time on lower level alts instead of enjoying the new content.

I'm SURE there are people the just love the new dungeons and the scripts.   I play a templar because I enjoy grouping, she rarely solos at all.   Currently I can admit I am not enjoying the grouping.  Wiping, rebuffing 10 times isn't FUN to me.

I don't even plan on setting foot in the dungeons. I detest scripting. I don't play MMOs for puzzles. I could play umpteen free browser games if I wanted that kind of gameplay and save myself the monthly sub.

"Tank and spank", or "combat" as I'd call it is what I expect, if I plan on fighting at all. The baddie stands there and tries to kill us and we try to stop him, end of story. We don't rehearse some abstruse gavotte over and over until both sides have their steps by heart.

The further MMOs in general go down this path of puzzle-solving, the less they ressemble the RPGs that brought me to them in the first place, and the more like arcade games they become.

I can't recall tank and spank ever playing a part of any RPG that I've played in the past 20 years. Every single game I have ever played involved strategy and puzzle solving. Name any single player game and it had puzzles. Name any MMORPG and it had puzzle solving/strategies. Hell, my all-time favorite D&D campaigns have been HEAVILY involved with political, strategical, and puzzle-solving routines that got us away from the boring kiddy crap of tank-and-spank (stand in one spot, swing sword until mob dies).

Thanon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2008, 10:02 PM   #57
Guy De Alsace

Loremaster
Guy De Alsace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: England
Posts: 1,902
Default

I'm a casual player. Too casual some might say....after RoK I really dont think we can complain that TSO is the way it is. Honestly.

If its any consolation...my casual 75 Mystic in Veskar with a mix of Adept 1's 3's and tier 7 masters plus RoK treasured managed to solo heal an encounter when the 2nd healer went LD just after the pull. Moment of glory for me since we wiped about 20 times and failed the zone in the end. Learning those scripts is the hard bit.

My only real complaint with TSO so far is that, once again, the overland zones are WAYYY too overcrowded with mobs. Loping Plains Syndrome again.

Guy De Alsace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 12:22 AM   #58
Elwin
Server: Venekor
Guild: Blades of Honor
Rank: Master Blade

Loremaster
Elwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 659
Default

bks6721 wrote:

[email protected] DLere wrote:

Meirril wrote:

I'm just wondering, does anyone think that the group instances in TSO are ment for casual players?

Is there any actual casual content in TSO?

My paladin is well equipped in RoK era instance gear. I've got half my masters, and the rest are adept 3 spells. I travel with the same group of people that I got most of this gear with. They are similarly equipped.

And yet, anytime we wander by any of the Befallen instances we constantly beat our heads against a wall. We'll be doing fine and then suddenly a named will pull a trick and I go from green to dead in about 2 seconds. This is traveling with 2 healers.

It isn't like we haven't read up on the fight strats. Even with solid information, the mob crits and boom I'm dead. I thought crit mittigation wasn't suppose to be an issue until you got to tier 2 raids? Why is it an issue in instanced content?

So far, I've found that 3 of the instances are do-able for a casual group in RoK gear. Does that mean we're suppose to farm 2 of them for shards until we can afford the tier 2 shard armor? The tier 1 shard armor is a downgrade for my equipment! Heck, most of the tier 2 shard armor isn't as good as half my equipment except for the crit mittigation.

So, what is the deal? Was I suppose to go raiding before TSO came out so I'd be ready for group content?

Just play smarter and gear will mean less. All raid gear does really is allow you to skip some of the zone progression and gives you a greater leeway for making mistakes.  The zones are fine the way they are, they just expect more from you as a player.

they expect more from me?   I thought "I" was the customer and SoE is the one that should live up to expectations.. and my only expectation was for me and my guild to do what we've been dong for the last 4 years.  Enjoy new content without endless frustrations.  My ENTIRE guild hates TSO dungeons.  We DON"T raid, we HATE scripts.  My we enjoy running dungeons like we have been doing for a long time.  We can do every dungeon in RoK without too much issue.   We WILL NOT run Deep Forge 40 times just so we can move on to the next dungeon.   My guild can NOT clear RE2 or Veksar.   Think what you will of us but we are players in this game, same as everyone else.  We aren't asking for a handout.. We want the game to be what is was like last year.   A chance at doing stuff without have to be hardcore.  We DON"T run a parser.  We don't min/max like all you other so called casualy players.   We don't even know where the Teir 1 raid zones are in RoK.  Does this make our subscription fees unwanted?

Just wait until I can buy my Void Shards for $5 each and then laugh at all the people that spend all that time grinding DF.

 

Well the same zones that were there last year are still there. You can still play in them.

Or if you want to be really adventurous you could do one or two of the hundreds of solo quests avail in Moors. 

I think it's a really great expansion that isn't easy mode and is actually a challenge. For the hundreds of people that play EQ that like a challenge this is a good thing.

I'm not a raider though I sometimes raid. I do however group with the same folk most days and the feeling I got when we got through Necrotic with only one death last night was almost euphoria.

I think SOE would lose a lot more paying customers if they continued with ANOTHER 'easy mode' expansion and I think this expansion how it is will have a much longer life. 

And oh the void shards are NO TRADE btw

Elwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 12:48 AM   #59
Noaani

Loremaster
Noaani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,077
Default

Bhagpuss wrote:

"Tank and spank", or "combat" as I'd call it is what I expect, if I plan on fighting at all. The baddie stands there and tries to kill us and we try to stop him, end of story. We don't rehearse some abstruse gavotte over and over until both sides have their steps by heart.

So, you want your named encounters, the ones that drop loot worth having, to be nothing more than trash mobs with extra hitpoints?

Obviously they can not increase the damage output of these mobs, as that would require a second healer, so without a script, hitpoints are all you have left!

You may be on to something here, maybe you should find $35 million and start up your own MMO! You'll have players rushing to it by the tens. Maybe.

__________________

The superior man knows what is right.
The inferior man knows what will sell.

Confucius

Noaani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 01:40 AM   #60
TheSpin

Loremaster
TheSpin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,587
Default

evilbp wrote:

I'm all for challenging content but the new instances are to much for a casual player. My group of friends have trouble with the easiest instance zones (Scion of Ice). There is something wrong when a group needs two healers to complete the content. Now before I'm jumped on I mean group content not raid. I just don't see why the instances can't scale with lower loot rewards. It would solve all the problems and allow everyone to have new content.

There are dungeons that literally 'require' two healers by design.  Not Scion of Ice, but I doubt anyone could solo heal Nuroga.  I think your opinion of how it should be simply does not agree with SoE's opinion about what the majority of their paying customers want.

I can understand that you are frustrated when you struggle with new content, but I guess you'll either have to do what it takes in terms of gear and AA, or you'll have to stick with something you feel more comfortable with.  At least there are more live events now than ever, and sometimes there's pretty good gear rewards with them.

TheSpin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:07 AM.

vBulletin skin by: CompleteGFX.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All threads and posts originally from the EQ2 and Station forums operated by Sony Online Entertainment. Their use is by express written permission.