EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

 

Go Back   EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire > EverQuest II > General EverQuest II Discussion > Expansions and Adventure Packs
Members List Search Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-02-2008, 09:07 AM   #121
Kleitos

Loremaster
Kleitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 335
Default

This thread must be heaven for people solo/duoing that have fluxual playtimes with a good chance for RL interference. Here you can find all those other soloists and duoers, 6x solo players = group, 3x duoists = group, mix and match as you wish, no excuse to not go to that heroic instance any more.It's like level chat when noone can get a group:[70-79]: Wizard 80 LFG![70-79]: Paladin 80 LFG[70-79]: Warden 80 LFG anything[70-79]: Dirge 79 looking for company[70-79]: Why is there no groups!?

[70-79]: Me: Why don't you guys form a group and you will have one?[70-79]: Wizard: But I only want to go to zone XXY[70-79]: Warden: I'm locked from XXY[70-79]: Paladin: I'll only tank zone ZZXIf RL interuptions is the only reason you don't group, think again. I havn't met anyone yet that can sit for 2 or more hours uninterupted constantly. Humans need food, bio breaks, answer phones, open doors, let the dog out, wipe up the soda they spilled, drinks, more beer, load their bong, smoke breaks, catch whatever animal their cat brought home and what not, included of course is people that have kids and they might need an extra afk now and then. Unless you sneak off without telling anyone I doubt many people mind if you have to go and put your kid to bed again.

__________________
Kleitos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 10:33 AM   #122
Ikke

Loremaster
Ikke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Utrecht, the Netherlands
Posts: 95
Default

Gage wrote:

....snip.....

I'm fine with solo instances, as long as they do not reward void shards and reward treasured gear, with maybe the final named in each zone having a small chance at dropping legendary.

Hear Hear!!

I am a solo player and would love to have solo instances like these. They don't have to deliver that "guaranteed" legendary drop. Just give us instances that are difficult but doable when played solo with "solo rewards".

An added (very) small chance to get a better drop (Legendary items or maybe a shard) would be wonderful. This way I would be able to dream of eventually being able to buy that one piece of shard armor in about 3 or 4 months.

I agree that the developers should develop these instances for the group and raid players. But why not reuse these zone assets to develop solo instances after a while?

__________________
Ikke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 12:03 PM   #123
liveja

General
liveja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends
Posts: 4,793
Default

Qandor wrote:

Gage wrote:

I'm fine with solo instances, as long as they do not reward void shards and reward treasured gear, with maybe the final named in each zone having a small chance at dropping legendary.

Now there is good content design. Let's make solo instances with absolutely no reason to run them.

Why not? After all, Chelsith is a group zone with absolutely no reason to run it, & I'm pretty sure I can think of others. Why should grouping players be the only ones stuck with crappy instances???

Besides, it's not about the loot, right? It's about the ability to have fun playing EQ2, right? So the loot rewards from your solo instance shouldn't matter, as long as you have fun playing it, right?

__________________
liveja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 12:13 PM   #124
The_Relic

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 16
Default

Noob1974 wrote:

When i read through what casuals and especially soloers wrote i asked myself why do you play a MULTIPLAYER Online Game. I really try to understand why are you so stubborn to believe that dungeons should be designed for  2 -3 ppl. That would mean for about 80 % of the ppl it would be "eazmode" or " Trivial". Alot ppl, including me, like challenges actually. A Heroic dungeon should always be designed for a Group of 6 and not 2-3 Period. I said it before, if you want to do stuff put time and effort into it, e g put threads on forums that you look for ppl to group and such, but dont come here and demanding everything should be around your solo playstyle.

Why do I solo in EQ2? Because I like the feel of the world, I  like its lore, I like the vastness of it, I like the freedom to wander, I like the fact that the other players around me give it a sense of vitality and their random actions can make the outcome of my actions unpredictable. I don't like to group because I'm a potterer who likes to play at my own pace, and don't expect group players to put up with it. I pays my money, I take my choice, like you do.

Do I think the entire game should be based around my play style? No. Norrath's a big place and there's room for all of us and all of our styles of play.

The_Relic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 12:20 PM   #125
Katelei

General
Katelei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 84
Default

The_Relic wrote:

Noob1974 wrote:

When i read through what casuals and especially soloers wrote i asked myself why do you play a MULTIPLAYER Online Game. I really try to understand why are you so stubborn to believe that dungeons should be designed for  2 -3 ppl. That would mean for about 80 % of the ppl it would be "eazmode" or " Trivial". Alot ppl, including me, like challenges actually. A Heroic dungeon should always be designed for a Group of 6 and not 2-3 Period. I said it before, if you want to do stuff put time and effort into it, e g put threads on forums that you look for ppl to group and such, but dont come here and demanding everything should be around your solo playstyle.

Why do I solo in EQ2? Because I like the feel of the world, I  like its lore, I like the vastness of it, I like the freedom to wander, I like the fact that the other players around me give it a sense of vitality and their random actions can make the outcome of my actions unpredictable. I don't like to group because I'm a potterer who likes to play at my own pace, and don't expect group players to put up with it. I pays my money, I take my choice, like you do.

Do I think the entire game should be based around my play style? No. Norrath's a big place and there's room for all of us and all of our styles of play.

Then you would have to admit they owe the groupers their due with this expansion.  I really think they wanted to make up for what was solo heaven in RoK.  By the time I reached level 75, I was ready to poke my eyes out with all the solo questing.  I'm glad TSO came along, all the people lfg is amazing.  It actually feels great to group again for a purpose, like there was actually ACTIVITY!  Not BS chatting only.

I'm a casual player who is a parent.  So I'm definately not hardcore.  I like options.

Katelei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 02:03 PM   #126
surepaw

Loremaster
surepaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: You would never believe me
Posts: 139
Default

faith wrote:

Gage wrote:

faith wrote:

Of for the love of god..of course you're forced to group that is of course you want to miss out on 90% of this expansion content

Trolls got to love em.

Forced? No. You can easily choose not to do a specific type of content. You don't have to do heroic instances just like you don't have to raid, craft or anything else. You choose to either do the content or you choose not to.

What i was saying is simple..in ROK you had the choice to do the quests..solo or otherwise in TSO you dont..ergo your forced to group..hence the forced grouping comment it really is that simple.

If you can solo/duo the new stuff then hey grats to you but i suspect you cant and while of course this is an MMO to more or less ignore the casual factor will lead to this games ruin,as it nearly did back at the start of the game,as others have said Scott Hartsman's leaving has hurt the game and only now we can see its full extent of that hurt becuase i just cant seee his team ever releasing an xpac as narrow as TSO is/was,becuase he took the game in a modern direction and wonder and hark back to the days of 8 day camps in eqlive,those days should be over now.

As you say its about choice but you see my playstyle doesnt afford me the wonders of trying to get a group,i like to log on and get something done as i have kids and heck a real life that involves going out,meeting people etc,but it also allows me to play this game (for a little while longer at least) and in my limited playtime i like to get a few things done,TSO doesnt allow me to do that becuase to get anything meaningful done you need a group (theres that word again)..when i pay money for something at least i should be able to have a go at it? surely thats not hard to understand is it?..i'd be pretty hacked off if i bought the new guns and roses cd and found i couldnt get past the 2nd track becuase you needed other people wouldnt you?

This is a game,its not work as some people mind bogglingly seem to think that it is,its all virtual nothings real in fact the only that is real is the sunscriptions we all pay at the end of the month and like it or not it gives everyone a voice and should give everyone a crack at most (not all of course) content the game has to offer.

ROK was an unbalanced xpac..you wont hear anything different from me but it was an unbalanced expac that least gave EVERYONE a crack at its content regardless of wether you where a solo'er/grouper or a raider but TSO doesnt offer this..the small ammount of solo stuff can be polished off very quickly and then whats left? oh yeah GROUP dungoens..(the word group pops up a lot doesn it?) so paint it anyway you like this expac is far worse than ROK ever was in that respect becuase it more or less does away with the solo stuff and in turn paints itself into a corner.

Two worngs dont make it right,the dungoens maywell be great but as a duoer theres no chance of seeing them..

So there you go TSO the forced group expansion..let us hoep they never push another one on us like this becuase the game will siffer at the end of it and the only ones that'll be left are the ones posting how bad the game is on eq2flames..

I could sympathize with you except for a few things. Not every game is meant for every playstyle 100% of the time. Many video games are solo games that give the option on the internet to group with others at the cost of content. MMO's are no different, they are traditionaly a group game that gives the option to solo at the cost of content and reward.

Half-Life 2, for example, is a solo game. You can play with other people in game on the internet but you lose much of the content of the original game. Besides, with a group it would make the game too easy, no challenge.

With an MMOG, the whole point is you are playing a mulitplayer game. In fact, not just a multiplayer game, but a Massive Multiplayer game. The biggest draw to an MMOG is the multiplayer part of it. There are newer games that are of the adventure/role playing type out there that are for solo play. You can even save your progress thru the game and pick up right where you left off. You can pause it when you need to go check on whatever as well.

To change an MMO to play like a non-MMO is not the way to go.

I enjoy soloing as well. But I enjoy a challenge as well.

IMO, SOE did a fantastic job of balancing this expansion. Moores has plenty of solo content. Yes, the mobs are challenging at times, but by level 80 the average person should know how to play there level 80 class good enough to get through it solo.

They also have group content that is way more difficult, which is the trademark of any MMOG. To ask Sony to change that is wrong, IMO, for the above reasons.

It is great that SOE has a forum like this to voice your opinion in hopes the game can be altered, and I encourage anyone to do so, regarldess of the opinion, but in turn, when you do expect to get some feedback. Some that do not agree with your point of view. At least I put my reasons for disagreeing down, and I think they are valid reasons.

__________________
swashbuckling, adj. [swosh-buhk-ling, swŏsh-bÅ*k-lēng]

-Though many of us will automatically think of a pirate when we hear this word, it actually refers to the characteristics or manners of a 'swaggering swordsman, soldier, adventurer, or daredevil.' Swashbuckling appeared towards the end of the 17th century as the adjective form of English swashbuckler (circa 1560 CE), the 'swaggering swordsman' mentioned previously. This in turn is was formed by combining English swash and buckle. Swash started out as a noun first recorded in 1538 CE meaning 'the fall of a heavy body or blow' and may have been formed as an imitation of the sound made when this happens. It took on a verb form a few decades later, which appears to be the swash that begat our swashbuckler.
surepaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 02:13 PM   #127
liveja

General
liveja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends
Posts: 4,793
Default

faith wrote:

What i was saying is simple..in ROK you had the choice to do the quests..solo or otherwise in TSO you dont..ergo your forced to group..hence the forced grouping comment it really is that simple..

The only quests in ROK you could "solo" were ... gasp ... the quests that were intended to be solo'd. I daresay there are a large number of DUNGEON quests in ROK for which you were ... gasp ... "forced to group", if you wanted to complete them. For example, I'm pretty sure you didn't solo Anaphalaxis, or Crunchy Kunark Roll, etc.

With this in mind, there are a LARGE number of completely soloable quests in TSO, & a large number of quests for which you will need a group, IF IF IF you choose to do them.

Key word there is "choose", which -- of course -- implies "choice", & very much implies a lack of "force." The whole problem with your argument here is that you are falsely equating ROK solo quests to TSO group quests, when what you need to compare is ROK solo quests to TSO solo quests.

If you can handle soloing quests in ROK, you should be able to handle soloing them in TSO. If not, go back to ROK & finish gearing up there. But it is completely & totally FALSE to claim that anyone is "forced" to group up to do the TSO solo quests, which renders your entire argument invalid.

__________________
liveja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 03:22 PM   #128
Maroger

Loremaster
Maroger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,313
Default

Ikke wrote:

Gage wrote:

....snip.....

I'm fine with solo instances, as long as they do not reward void shards and reward treasured gear, with maybe the final named in each zone having a small chance at dropping legendary.

Hear Hear!!

I am a solo player and would love to have solo instances like these. They don't have to deliver that "guaranteed" legendary drop. Just give us instances that are difficult but doable when played solo with "solo rewards".

An added (very) small chance to get a better drop (Legendary items or maybe a shard) would be wonderful. This way I would be able to dream of eventually being able to buy that one piece of shard armor in about 3 or 4 months.

I agree that the developers should develop these instances for the group and raid players. But why not reuse these zone assets to develop solo instances after a while?

I agree but I think we ought to have a chance to get a void shard. The way stuff was done in LDON was so much better than this garbage now.

I also think it was wrong to have FORCED GROUPING quests for tradeskills - and they are forced. Why should solo quests only be able to be done 1 a week and GROUPED quest daily -- that like so much in TSO needs to change.

Another expansion like this and you can kiss this game goodbye.

And for those of you who love groping so much -- why aren't you in EQLIVE - that is grouping heaven.

Maroger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 03:41 PM   #129
Geothe

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,098
Default

Maroger wrote:

I also think it was wrong to have FORCED GROUPING quests for tradeskills - and they are forced.

They arent forced grouping tradeskill quests at all.They are perfectly do-able solo, if you want, it just takes a fair amount of time to do so.  If you dont want to put forth the effort required to do said quests solo, then that is your problem, not Sony's.

__________________
Smed: We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement.

Smed: 5) This [LoN] is not some slippery slope towards selling items directly in EQ & EQ II.

Lie #3: Station Cash. Enough Said.

Geothe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 04:39 PM   #130
Qandor

Loremaster
Qandor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 994
Default

[email protected] wrote:

Qandor wrote:

Gage wrote:

I'm fine with solo instances, as long as they do not reward void shards and reward treasured gear, with maybe the final named in each zone having a small chance at dropping legendary.

Now there is good content design. Let's make solo instances with absolutely no reason to run them.

Why not? After all, Chelsith is a group zone with absolutely no reason to run it, & I'm pretty sure I can think of others. Why should grouping players be the only ones stuck with crappy instances???

Besides, it's not about the loot, right? It's about the ability to have fun playing EQ2, right? So the loot rewards from your solo instance shouldn't matter, as long as you have fun playing it, right?

Not my words if that is what you are trying to imply. Are you saying loot does not matter? Are you here to tell us that groups would be running these instances in any expansion if there were no loot? Would folks be running raids if there were no loot? However, according to your way of thinking soloists and small groups should be content with no loot? They will run them just for fun? I'll buy that when loot is stripped from raids and and full group instances and it is shown that people are still running them.

Here is a clue. The folks you see opining that they just want to see the content and are content with getting nothing for their efforts are the tiniest of minorities. These games are all about loot and improving your character. That is consistent across all play styles.

It is amusing though that so many of you are violently opposed to providing content for other playstyles even though it would in no way impact your preferred playstyle. Perhaps you would not feel as superior if someone else could get something decent?  We have folks claiming full group players can pull in 3 to 5 shards a day, 21 to 35 per week and then offer a solo or small group instance with no shards or as in a another thread one per WEEK? Any content developed under that criteria would be totally wasted development time since it would not be utilized by anyone.

Personally, I'm not asking for anything to be changed. SoE has chosen this development path and they can stick to it for all I really care. If the path chosen by SoE does not fit my playstyle or anyone elses playstyle we can just leave. Problem solved. I just get miffed when people throw out ludicrous solutions to a perceived problem as if they were valid remedies. Just be honest and state that soloists and small groups deserve nothing if that is how you really feel.

Qandor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 04:43 PM   #131
Gaige

Loremaster
Gaige's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Arizona
Posts: 9,500
Default

Qandor wrote:

However, according to your way of thinking soloists and some groups should be content with no loot? They will run them just for fun?

Just be honest and state that soloists and small groups deserve nothing if that is how you really feel.

I never said no loot.  I said no void shards, treasured loot and a small chance at legendary.

That isn't nothing, that is rewards that would be inline with solo instances.

If you want raid gear, raid.  If you want fabled from Guk, group.  If you want void shards, group.

That is just how it is.  Allowing people to attain void shards solo would be Harclave 2.0, and Harclave was terrible for the game.

__________________
Gaige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 05:03 PM   #132
Maroger

Loremaster
Maroger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,313
Default

Gage wrote:

Qandor wrote:

However, according to your way of thinking soloists and some groups should be content with no loot? They will run them just for fun?

Just be honest and state that soloists and small groups deserve nothing if that is how you really feel.

I never said no loot.  I said no void shards, treasured loot and a small chance at legendary.

That isn't nothing, that is rewards that would be inline with solo instances.

If you want raid gear, raid.  If you want fabled from Guk, group.  If you want void shards, group.

That is just how it is.  Allowing people to attain void shards solo would be Harclave 2.0, and Harclave was terrible for the game.

What is so horrible about soloers getting void shard??? I smell prejudice against soloers here. You seem to think that only people who group are entitled to anything - why aren't you playing EQLIVE since you are grouping reward oriented = the grouping reward far outstrip anything in EQ2.  Nothing matches the rewards from Plane of Time in its heyday and that stuff is still better than anything you get in EQ2.

Maroger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 05:22 PM   #133
Kizee

Loremaster
Kizee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,093
Default

Maroger wrote:

Gage wrote:

Qandor wrote:

However, according to your way of thinking soloists and some groups should be content with no loot? They will run them just for fun?

Just be honest and state that soloists and small groups deserve nothing if that is how you really feel.

I never said no loot.  I said no void shards, treasured loot and a small chance at legendary.

That isn't nothing, that is rewards that would be inline with solo instances.

If you want raid gear, raid.  If you want fabled from Guk, group.  If you want void shards, group.

That is just how it is.  Allowing people to attain void shards solo would be Harclave 2.0, and Harclave was terrible for the game.

What is so horrible about soloers getting void shard??? I smell prejudice against soloers here. You seem to think that only people who group are entitled to anything - why aren't you playing EQLIVE since you are grouping reward oriented = the grouping reward far outstrip anything in EQ2.  Nothing matches the rewards from Plane of Time in its heyday and that stuff is still better than anything you get in EQ2.

It's not prejudice against soloers.

You are just expecting to get the rewards from a part of the game you refuse to participate in. Why should you be entitled to group equipment if you just want to solo?

Kizee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 07:21 PM   #134
Maroger

Loremaster
Maroger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,313
Default

Kizee wrote:

Maroger wrote:

Gage wrote:

Qandor wrote:

However, according to your way of thinking soloists and some groups should be content with no loot? They will run them just for fun?

Just be honest and state that soloists and small groups deserve nothing if that is how you really feel.

I never said no loot.  I said no void shards, treasured loot and a small chance at legendary.

That isn't nothing, that is rewards that would be inline with solo instances.

If you want raid gear, raid.  If you want fabled from Guk, group.  If you want void shards, group.

That is just how it is.  Allowing people to attain void shards solo would be Harclave 2.0, and Harclave was terrible for the game.

What is so horrible about soloers getting void shard??? I smell prejudice against soloers here. You seem to think that only people who group are entitled to anything - why aren't you playing EQLIVE since you are grouping reward oriented = the grouping reward far outstrip anything in EQ2.  Nothing matches the rewards from Plane of Time in its heyday and that stuff is still better than anything you get in EQ2.

It's not prejudice against soloers.

You are just expecting to get the rewards from a part of the game you refuse to participate in. Why should you be entitled to group equipment if you just want to solo?

I was unaware that equipment was marked soloers only, groupers only, raiders only? Why should a soloer have limited equipment or undesirable equipment that makes it hard for the soloer to handler heroics?

You seem to say that groupers get something special -- I disagree. I have never understood people who think that grouping is what MMO's are about. I thought they were about having fun, not having bragging rights.

Maroger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 07:26 PM   #135
Geothe

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,098
Default

erm.By being attainable only through grouping, pretty much marks equipment as being "group only"

Likewise,by being attainable only from Avatars, gear is marked as being "raider only".

Common sense.

__________________
Smed: We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement.

Smed: 5) This [LoN] is not some slippery slope towards selling items directly in EQ & EQ II.

Lie #3: Station Cash. Enough Said.

Geothe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 08:32 PM   #136
Denon

Loremaster
Denon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 147
Default

This has been suggested before and I like the idea: # of Void shards are determined by number of toons the instance was scaled for. Solo instance drop 1 void shard, Full group instance drop 6 shards. Then have the vendors charge 5X what they currently do for turning in the shards. You want to solo - fine, you will get the rewars, it will just take you 5 X longer then if you would have grouped to obtain the items you want.

__________________


----------------------- [ Permafrost Server] -----------------
Thomm ... Qeynos 92/320 Troubador, 92 Carpenter, T9 (450) Transmuter
Denon ..... Qeynos 90/320 Warden, 90 Tailor
Draziw ..... Freeport 92/320 Wizard, 90 Sage
Jacuzzi .... Freeport 92/320 Necromancer, 90 Woodworker
Steab ...... Qeynos 92/320 Guardian, 90 Armorer, T9 (450) Tinker
----------------------------------------------------------------



.....(-.-).....

Denon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 12:37 AM   #137
Yella

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 134
Default

Kateleira wrote:

Denon wrote:

We got killed a number of times just from random trash.  1st named we killed on first try. We kept wiping on the second named. I played my Warden, which was our only healer. Tank kept getting stunned right away then he would loose aggro and mob would take me (healer) out. Then everyone would die.

Well thats the problem then, you're the only healer.  You need a 2nd one, solo healing is pretty tough without a well equipped tank, or unless you have some serious DPS.

But...but....but....according to the "experts", people will be douing, even soloing these instances in no time!!

Yella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 12:48 AM   #138
Yella

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 134
Default

Gage wrote:

scruffylookin wrote:

The only kink in your post is the part I've put in bold. It actually suggests to me that the solo instances should be added. You're saying that if they added solo instances then nobody would group... then doesn't that suggest people aren't grouping because they like to group? 

If people had solo instances that rewarded void shards, that is all they would do.  Just like the Harclave instance in Splitpaw that had awesome rewards and netted amazing xp, all people did was solo Harclave.  So much so that SOE was forced to nerf it.

I'm fine with solo instances, as long as they do not reward void shards and reward treasured gear, with maybe the final named in each zone having a small chance at dropping legendary.

Correction: You are fine with solo instances as long as there is absolutely no incentive to do them, since that might reduce the number of people willing to group with YOU. Basically it exposes your selfish motive.

There is no reason why a solo or small group instance shouldn't award shards, it should just take much longer to get them. If the fastest route is with a full group, those who want to get there fastest will go that way. But those who don't have the resources available to them can opt to go the slower route. It gives people options as to how they spend their time, whereas now there are none.

Yella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 01:02 AM   #139
Yella

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 134
Default

Gage wrote:

Qandor wrote:

Now there is good content design. Let's make solo instances with absolutely no reason to run them.

Well at least you admit you want the ability to solo while gaining rewards equal to that of heroic grouping.  Which, as previously stated in this thread, makes heroic grouping obsolete.  Players will ALWAYS choose the easiest path to their goal.  ALWAYS.

If you want solo instances, they need to have adequate rewards, and in this regard adequate also means crappy.  Players have said numerous times in this thread they just want fun content to solo/duo.  They don't care about loot, they don't care about void shards... but then here you come, complaining.  Go figure.

People want loot and rewards for minimal effort, as your post clarifies, it has a lot of nothing to do with fun content.  Thx for clarifying.

The problem with your argument is that you assume that a solo instance would give the same reward at the same rate as a group instance. This is typical of the reactionary mindset, The worst most unlikely scenario MUST be what the other side is proposing, because then it makes your unreasonable position seem reasonable.

Might I point out that plenty of players have claimed that they want hard group content, because what was in RoK was a "snoozefest". And no, loot had nothing to do with it. Nosiree!!! According to them, the hardcore groupers didnt want to group because the RvR wasnt good enough. Obviously the point of doing any content is to upgrade your character, no one does it "just for fun". You certainly didnt, yet you seem to think that solo/small groupers should. Surely what is good for the goose is good for the gander? If you felt you got short changed in RoK, you should be supporting the folk who feel they got short changed in TSO. But that isnt what you are doing, and that speaks volumes about the validity of your attitude.

Yella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 03:28 AM   #140
Gaige

Loremaster
Gaige's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Arizona
Posts: 9,500
Default

Yella wrote:

If you felt you got short changed in RoK, you should be supporting the folk who feel they got short changed in TSO. But that isnt what you are doing, and that speaks volumes about the validity of your attitude.

I'm a raider, I've been getting short changed since DoF.

That said, solo instances should not award void shards.  The void shard gear is too good to be obtained by soloing.  Period.

__________________
Gaige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 05:12 AM   #141
Noob1974

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 240
Default

@ Yella . I think something else a problem, too, If you would make Heroic Dungeons soloable with the SAME rewards, than everyone would do this since its the easiest way to get void shards and all the devs affords to designe good encounter for a group would have been wasted time.

Secondary if the encounter would be soloable,douable or with a group of 3, than all this encounter would " Trivial" and "Eazmode" for about 80% ppl ( Raider, People who like to grou of 6) and the whole expansion would become boring latest January. A lot of ppl, including me, like challenges.

I have to say all i see here is the typical casual, in that case soloer and small grouper, way of thinking it should be my way as i do not want to adapt to another playstyle,put any time or effort into it but want the best Loot obtainable.

Noob1974 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 05:42 AM   #142
Ikke

Loremaster
Ikke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Utrecht, the Netherlands
Posts: 95
Default

Gage wrote:

Yella wrote:

If you felt you got short changed in RoK, you should be supporting the folk who feel they got short changed in TSO. But that isnt what you are doing, and that speaks volumes about the validity of your attitude.

I'm a raider, I've been getting short changed since DoF.

That said, solo instances should not award void shards.  The void shard gear is too good to be obtained by soloing.  Period.

Gage,

I don't agree with your last remark. If they do give us solo instances than these should have a chance to give us a shard. But it should be a very small chance. That would mean that I (a solo player) would have my single piece of shard-gear at the same moment that you are fully geared up in your completed shard armor.

There is a question of effort and time. If I am not willing to put a lot of effort into getting the shards (I do not Raid) then I should put a lot of time into getting the shards (a LOT of solo runs).

This way all playstyles can be catered for.

__________________
Ikke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 07:35 AM   #143
scruffylookin

Loremaster
scruffylookin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 414
Default

Noob1974 wrote:

@ Yella . I think something else a problem, too, If you would make Heroic Dungeons soloable with the SAME rewards, than everyone would do this since its the easiest way to get void shards and all the devs affords to designe good encounter for a group would have been wasted time.

Secondary if the encounter would be soloable,douable or with a group of 3, than all this encounter would " Trivial" and "Eazmode" for about 80% ppl ( Raider, People who like to grou of 6) and the whole expansion would become boring latest January. A lot of ppl, including me, like challenges.

I have to say all i see here is the typical casual, in that case soloer and small grouper, way of thinking it should be my way as i do not want to adapt to another playstyle,put any time or effort into it but want the best Loot obtainable.

Respectfully, you're confusing easier with easier to get inside. A group dungeon being run by a full group is much, much easier than a dungeon being run by a duo. The content is harder, yes, but you have 3 to 6 times the amount of people doing it. My wife and I have gone through dungeons with full groups (RE, SOS, etc) when the dungeons were yellow to the group. It was a complete cakewalk. When we'd come back later and do the same dungeon (now blue or green) as a duo, we worked twice as hard to get through it and it took twice as long.

In the interest of being fair, though, this isn't the same thing as a solo instance. We were doing content designed for groups, so my analogy isn't completely valid. I'm just saying that solo doesn't have to equal easy. It's easy for a full group, sure. But it's very possible to design solo content that is a challenge to solo players... every bit as challenging as group content is to a full group.

So let's be clear on what we're talking about. In most instances, the mobs are tougher, but you're hitting them with 3 to 6 times the amount of people, it's far from hard. Adds, for example, are much, much, much more dangerous in a dungeon for a duo than a full group.

I don't think anyone's asking for a cake-walk here, solo or full group. People are just wanting to choose the method by which they experience the dungeon itself. The overwhelming success of the LP Haunted House shows that this would be a very popular addition.

As to your second point about it becoming trivial... not one person has suggested they add solo instances instead of full group instances. They just want the choice of both.

Personally, I have no problem with TSO as it is. I mostly duo with my wife, but honestly, we have tons of content. TSO definitely isn't a game-breaker for us. We still have great fun, and I'm very glad that full groupers have these instances. I don't usually group, but I was disappointed that ROK didn't have more content for the groupers (my best RL friend is a hard-core grouper and raider... I felt bad for him in ROK, but he was fine with it). Along those same lines, if they added instances that were designed for smaller groups, my wife and I would absolutely love it.

It's really surprising to me that this argument exists. With ROK, the common complaint was that the expansion only catered to one group of players (more or less). That was a persistant complaint. Now, this expansion did the exact same thing, yet the very people that complained about ROK have given this expansion their full support. It doesn't matter who it caters to, seems to me if you think an expansion that caters primarily to one group is wrong, I would have guessed you'd think it was wrong when they did the same thing again.

Can't stress enough, I'm fine with TSO. But we should be realistic here... the arguments that soloers have about this expansion are the exact same arguments the groupers had the last time. And in both cases, those suggestions for improvement were completely valid.

__________________
scruffylookin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 08:58 AM   #144
Noob1974

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 240
Default

@ scruffylookin The only difference between ROK and TSO is, while in Rok ppl adapted to that Solo Grinding without coming here demaning and whining how unfair the world is, in TSO Soloers do that and dont adapt to grouping, thats the main difference.

Noob1974 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 01:24 PM   #145
afarak

General
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 16
Default

I'd personally like to see another EoF expansion. Why can't we get anymore of these? It added content, be it solo, heroic, or raid, and there was content for all levels. TSO could have done this, but it didn't. Everyone I have discussed TSO with feels like they were ripped off. It's got one zone of solo content and a bunch of instance dungeons that (in my opinion) do not scale properly (the rewards are rarely good, there's no quests if you're under 80, and most of the mobs are just too difficult).

We need an expansion that really delivers to all playstyles at once, like EoF did. Sure you aren't going to get a TON of solo content, or a TON of raiding content, or even a TON of heroic content, but at least everyone will get something out of it. With these once a year expansions, if they don't match your playstyle then you've gotta wait an entire extra year just for something to do. This expansion feels like a cheap money-maker and even more like an expansion they would have made back when they released these things every six months. Horrible. I would honestly say that this is the worst expansion yet.

Give us some Odus/Velius and do it right. Take this year of time and really deliver what the players want: a mix of everything. There is a reason EoF was the most popular expansion. Why break with what obviously works?

And in the meantime, supply us with some good Live Updates that fill in the gaps of what TSO lacked.  I want to see some revamped old world content like what was done with Everfrost, and I want it more frequently.  This revamp was more interesting than TSO, which says something.  You've got tons of people making alts because they're bored with the Tier 8 content, so why not give them something new to do?   Let's see some updated Lavastorm, The Feerrott, and Rivervale (which no one ever visits).  Maybe even a few new instances in them.

__________________
Morg 70 Fury
Bazaar Server (formally of SH)
afarak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 01:24 PM   #146
Gaige

Loremaster
Gaige's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Arizona
Posts: 9,500
Default

Ikke wrote:

I don't agree with your last remark. If they do give us solo instances than these should have a chance to give us a shard. But it should be a very small chance. That would mean that I (a solo player) would have my single piece of shard-gear at the same moment that you are fully geared up in your completed shard armor.

No. NO. No.

Shard items are intended to be rewards for heroic content.  Its pretty straightforward.  Could you kill solo mobs in RoK and get legendary set gear?  Could you kill solo mobs in EoF and get set gear?  If you killed 1,000,000 solo mobs in EoF could you get your legendary set BP?  No.  For that you had to kill a named in Mistmoore Castle.

I'm sorry but if you choose to solo exclusively then you're consciously deciding that some rewards are forever out of your reach.

I want a Ferrari irl but I'm terrible at saving money, so guess what I drive a Chevy Silverado.  Go figure.

__________________
Gaige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 02:38 PM   #147
Obadiah

Loremaster
Obadiah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,154
Default

I think with TSO they've done a good job of creating progression for heroic content. You don't just get in a random group, run any instance, kill everything, win. With RoK (at launch) there was only one instance (maybe 2) that was tough for some groups, every other heroic instance was a loot pinata. And those two instances became pinatas soon enough. Now, you don't just get into any PUG and expect to FINISH every single zone you enter. YAY!

First, you get into some groups and just run missions. Kill some trash, harvest some books in the Deep Forge Library, grab some ice crystals out of Necrotic Asylum, whatever. Get in, finish your mission, maybe kill a couple named mobs, get out. That random pick up group you join can finish some missions in Ravenscale, but probably isn't killing the last few bosses with their RoK set gear.

As people "gear up" they eventually will be able to FINISH more and more zones.  But it's something to work for. So it feels like an accomplishment rather than feeling like grinding through VoES for the hundredth time hoping for your dang Praetor's Guard or torque. And there are some pretty decent rewards from some of the quests (not missions) that actually require you to FINISH the zones. It's cool, and stuff.

And if you want to solo or small group, you can still get your void shards! About a quarter of all my void shards I obtained solo, and I only JUST started soloing for them on Monday because the thought didn't occur to me until then. You're limited in the number that you can get that way per day. No big. Small groups and duos can also easily finish missions in a scaled down LP zone as well. 3 or 4 could probably even kill some named mobs. 3 or 4 players can also finish missions in normal level zones sometimes, depending on the mission. I think it's insane to say that this expansion doesn't cater to all playing styles. If any style has been "shorted" it seems to be raiding, but we've only killed 2 mobs so far so I personally can't complain.

__________________
Obadiah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2008, 05:28 AM   #148
Ikke

Loremaster
Ikke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Utrecht, the Netherlands
Posts: 95
Default

Gage wrote:

Ikke wrote:

I don't agree with your last remark. If they do give us solo instances than these should have a chance to give us a shard. But it should be a very small chance. That would mean that I (a solo player) would have my single piece of shard-gear at the same moment that you are fully geared up in your completed shard armor.

No. NO. No.

Shard items are intended to be rewards for heroic content.  Its pretty straightforward.  Could you kill solo mobs in RoK and get legendary set gear?  Could you kill solo mobs in EoF and get set gear?  If you killed 1,000,000 solo mobs in EoF could you get your legendary set BP?  No.  For that you had to kill a named in Mistmoore Castle.

I'm sorry but if you choose to solo exclusively then you're consciously deciding that some rewards are forever out of your reach.

I want a Ferrari irl but I'm terrible at saving money, so guess what I drive a Chevy Silverado.  Go figure.

To expand on your example: You make a LOT of money and can buy your Ferrari within a couple of weeks. I make much less money (but am good at saving money) and can buy my Ferrari in about one year.

In your reaction you forget the importance of "hope". Give people a small chance to be able to get something special and they will grab that chance (how big is the chance to win the lottery? People still buy the tickets).

You should also remember that, by the time that I as a solo player would be able to get my first piece of legenday shard loot, you as a raid player would already have more (and better) pieces. You would still have your bragging rights.

I don't get this idea certain content (legendary items in this case) should be available only to certain types of players. The issue is that there should be a just relationship between effort and reward. Make all items obtainable for all playstyles, but make it easier or harder based on the way the player wants to get towards that reward.

But I don't want to be a champion of "shard"items. That is not an interesting issue. The fact that they could, without too much effort, make solo instances based on the existing group/raid instances is much more interesting. It would be a way to create group content and then later reuse that content to make content for the solo players.

__________________
Ikke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2008, 07:59 AM   #149
Illine
Server: Storms
Guild: Apocalypse
Rank: Honorifique

Loremaster
Illine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: storms
Posts: 870
Default

scruffylookin wrote:

Noob1974 wrote:

@ Yella . I think something else a problem, too, If you would make Heroic Dungeons soloable with the SAME rewards, than everyone would do this since its the easiest way to get void shards and all the devs affords to designe good encounter for a group would have been wasted time.

Secondary if the encounter would be soloable,douable or with a group of 3, than all this encounter would " Trivial" and "Eazmode" for about 80% ppl ( Raider, People who like to grou of 6) and the whole expansion would become boring latest January. A lot of ppl, including me, like challenges.

I have to say all i see here is the typical casual, in that case soloer and small grouper, way of thinking it should be my way as i do not want to adapt to another playstyle,put any time or effort into it but want the best Loot obtainable.

Respectfully, you're confusing easier with easier to get inside. A group dungeon being run by a full group is much, much easier than a dungeon being run by a duo. The content is harder, yes, but you have 3 to 6 times the amount of people doing it. My wife and I have gone through dungeons with full groups (RE, SOS, etc) when the dungeons were yellow to the group. It was a complete cakewalk. When we'd come back later and do the same dungeon (now blue or green) as a duo, we worked twice as hard to get through it and it took twice as long

sure it's harder since you duo a zone made for groups lol. here they talk about scaling dongeons for soloers and groups which means zones for soloers would not be heroic and bosses would be one arrow only. there would also be less mobs and less chances of getting adds.

because let's face it, many classes can't handle 10 mobs at the same time, and many can't heal themselves properly. which means solo zones would be as hard or less hard than heroic zones.

and since it's solo, the reward must be soloer reward, which means, at best legendary. Now if you want to duo heroic zones, don't complain it's too hard for you, since heroic zones are meant for groups. but then, if you manage to duo an heroic instance, you should get the same reward as a whole group. But not better.

Illine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2008, 10:52 AM   #150
Maroger

Loremaster
Maroger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,313
Default

[email protected] wrote:

And if you want to solo or small group, you can still get your void shards! About a quarter of all my void shards I obtained solo, and I only JUST started soloing for them on Monday because the thought didn't occur to me until then. You're limited in the number that you can get that way per day. No big. Small groups and duos can also easily finish missions in a scaled down LP zone as well. 3 or 4 could probably even kill some named mobs. 3 or 4 players can also finish missions in normal level zones sometimes, depending on the mission. I think it's insane to say that this expansion doesn't cater to all playing styles. If any style has been "shorted" it seems to be raiding, but we've only killed 2 mobs so far so I personally can't complain.

And pray tell where did you solo to get void shards?

Maroger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:53 AM.

vBulletin skin by: CompleteGFX.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All threads and posts originally from the EQ2 and Station forums operated by Sony Online Entertainment. Their use is by express written permission.