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Old 07-09-2012, 01:04 PM   #1
Seidhkona

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The other day, our level chat became a full-fire zone after a group in Skyshrine had the one-handed mythical slashing weapon drop. Apparently, the group leader immedialy changed loot options to "Leader Only", looted the mythical weapon, then dropped group and zoned out. This is about a zillion times more angry-making than someone in group rolling Need when they really shouldn't have done so, as evidenced by the ensuing flamefest in chat.

There's nothing to be done about inappropriate Need rolls, but the game mechanics COULD be used to stop the group leader switching options to enable him/her to perform ninja looting.

My proposal:

(1) IF a chest has dropped AND is not fully looted;

(2) AND the remaining loot is something that would be rolled upon by selecting Need vs. Greed;

(3) AND this is a group and not a raid; THEN

(4) IF the group leader attempts to change group loot options;

(5) THEN pop up a poll to the other group members asking whether they will or will not allow the change.

(6) IF any group member disallows the change, THEN group loot options stay as they are.

If the change is actually appropriate, the group can discuss this with any dissenters. However, this should stop the ninja looting cold, and alert people that the group leader is likely a dishonest ninja looter and will probably next roll NEED. 

If you see this happening in a group, everyone should then know to roll NEED.  This method will allow the group to get at least a RNG chance at the loot, and the more reasonable group members then have a chance to trade the item to whoever really needs the item if they so desire.

Hmm. Might also need logic to keep our hypothetical dishonest group leader from kicking the other members and looting the box anyway:

(7) IF any group member disallows the change to group loot options, AND the group leader kicks two or more people;

(8) THEN the group leader will not be allowed to loot the box at all.

(9) [In an ideal world] AND an automatic /petition reports this bad behavior so the person can be puppy-bearing-dog-slapped by customer service, probably warning on 1st instance, suspension on #2, and ban on #3.

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Old 07-09-2012, 01:21 PM   #2
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Small thing here. I've seen about 9 myth drops so far during groups inlcuding the tank bow twice. Guess what, scouts needed on it because of dmg rating no matter what stats and procs were. (one of them got server disco in my face)

So far, it seems that everybody want myths because they are myths, no matter what the stats/class orientation is. Even if I think what the guy did was not moral, I'd do the same in a heartbeat if a tank myth drop during a group. Solution is quite simple for SOE, make items archetype specific, problem solved. 

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Old 07-09-2012, 01:27 PM   #3
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This is a rare situation, it needs to be handled by the community. I assure you that you do not want SOE to be the ones to remedy it.

Their solution to it is to grey out the ability to need on items that you can not equip, they planned on unleshing that on the community and it took a few hundred posts in a thread before they even responded and finally backed off from the idea.

The community can police itself, the situation can not be 'fixed' but the person that did it needs to be outted on the server, if you can identify any alts of the person they need to be outted as well and make it to where that person can not get a group PERIOD. There might be 2 or 3 people in a 1,000 on any given server that would stooop to this level. Think it through a bit more carefully, we don't need them policing anymore than they already are.

While your solution seems simple, it isn't unreasonable but to implement it is too difficult, and the possibility of introducing other bugs into the loot feature. There are times when the loot options are set improper and need to be changed legitimately. SOE already has a solution that will fix this and it is absolutely terrible but that is what will be used because they already have the code for it.

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Old 07-09-2012, 01:28 PM   #4
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

This is about a zillion times more angry-making than someone in group rolling Need when they really shouldn't have done so

Clearly, you've never seen an item you could use being stole in your face by scouts who wants the item for the dmg rating only. Get over it and move on.

Items that should belong to tanks first:

aITEM -670674605 -1165525425:Sever, Sword of the Prime/a

aITEM -1490528895 1385222824:Awakened Longbow of the Uprising/a

Items that belong to scouts first:

aITEM -488434333 -1526602797:Agent's Longbow of Veeshan's Valor/a

aITEM 55630780 -786411483:Awakened Spear of Division/a

The dmg rating excuse is not enough to need in peeps face imo.

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Old 07-09-2012, 01:48 PM   #5
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@ Darkholis: So if a scout wants to use 6s delay weapons they're not allowed a myth? Yeh no sorry, Sever is basically awseome for scouts and for tanks because of the damage rating. It is a legitimate upgrade for somebody using 2 plane of war 6s weapons because of it, chances are they don't have weapons anywhere near that good so it's a huge upgrade. The "tank" bow as you call it would also be a dps increase for rangers over most any bow in the game bar the Tallon hm mythical and plane of war bows. So yeh why not need?

@OP It would end up as alaplaya said before implementing that system making it impossible to roll for alts with leader only all the time. Best to just try and make guild groups to run the zones or at least from the core from before picking up pugs that obviously wouldn't be the leader.

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Old 07-09-2012, 02:23 PM   #6
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Darkholis wrote:

[email protected] DLere wrote:

This is about a zillion times more angry-making than someone in group rolling Need when they really shouldn't have done so

Clearly, you've never seen an item you could use being stole in your face by scouts who wants the item for the dmg rating only. Get over it and move on.

Items that should belong to tanks first:

aITEM -670674605 -1165525425:Sever, Sword of the Prime/a

aITEM -1490528895 1385222824:Awakened Longbow of the Uprising/a

Items that belong to scouts first:

aITEM -488434333 -1526602797:Agent's Longbow of Veeshan's Valor/a

aITEM 55630780 -786411483:Awakened Spear of Division/a

The dmg rating excuse is not enough to need in peeps face imo.

DMG rating is the only thing that makes those Myths better than easier to get raid drops.  Alot of Scouts prefer 6s weapon setup while others prefer 4sec.

To OP:  While it sucks what happened......it not something SOE should handle but rather something the community should handle.

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Old 07-09-2012, 02:35 PM   #7
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Guys, I understand your points and they are correct, dmg rating is the only good thing on myths but gotta put yourself in tanks shoes. We (tanks) are pretty much forced to take on 6s delay weapons an a shield to do any group/raid content. Scouts have options for 4s and 6s weapons.....I mean, good for you but ''hey, could I have more weaps choices too as a tank?'' Like I said in prior posts, SOE gotta either add str to the myth spear/scout bow OR limits the items to a specific archtype,

PS - To the OP, sorry to break your fun but their is no way SOE gonna ban that player since it's not a vialoation of the rules of conducts.

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-I do not valuate a raid force on the number of kills they got, I instead valuate it on the number of flawless they achieved.

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Old 07-09-2012, 03:00 PM   #8
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Darkholis wrote:

Guys, I understand your points and they are correct, dmg rating is the only good thing on myths but gotta put yourself in tanks shoes. We (tanks) are pretty much forced to take on 6s delay weapons an a shield to do any group/raid content. Scouts have options for 4s and 6s weapons.....I mean, good for you but ''hey, could I have more weaps choices too as a tank?'' Like I said in prior posts, SOE gotta either add str to the myth spear/scout bow OR limits the items to a specific archtype,

It's an itemization problem (yet again).  And to be honest, that doesn't really enter my equation of need/greed unless the tank is a guildmate.  If you're a scout in the group using 6s weapons and it's upgrade, then you should "need" on it.

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Old 07-09-2012, 03:06 PM   #9
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Darkholis wrote:

Guys, I understand your points and they are correct, dmg rating is the only good thing on myths but gotta put yourself in tanks shoes. We (tanks) are pretty much forced to take on 6s delay weapons an a shield to do any group/raid content. Scouts have options for 4s and 6s weapons.....I mean, good for you but ''hey, could I have more weaps choices too as a tank?'' Like I said in prior posts, SOE gotta either add str to the myth spear/scout bow OR limits the items to a specific archtype,

PS - To the OP, sorry to break your fun but their is no way SOE gonna ban that player since it's not a vialoation of the rules of conducts.

Tanks also already get their gear 'cheaper' and quicker than anyone else....not too mention being allowed to "double dip" on jewerly and such.

Upgrades are upgrades and any group I am in the best I can hope for is that people roll on upgrades.

What the OP described is a player/community problem ...not one of itemization.

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Old 07-09-2012, 03:09 PM   #10
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Darkholis wrote:

Guys, I understand your points and they are correct, dmg rating is the only good thing on myths but gotta put yourself in tanks shoes. We (tanks) are pretty much forced to take on 6s delay weapons an a shield to do any group/raid content. Scouts have options for 4s and 6s weapons.....I mean, good for you but ''hey, could I have more weaps choices too as a tank?'' Like I said in prior posts, SOE gotta either add str to the myth spear/scout bow OR limits the items to a specific archtype,

PS - To the OP, sorry to break your fun but their is no way SOE gonna ban that player since it's not a vialoation of the rules of conducts.

It is most certainly a violation of the "Play Nice" Policies and action can be taken. That said this is still an issue that should be handled by the community, as is stated several times in this but if you must resort to CSR intervention it also states that you may not be happy with the outcome and encourages it to be handled on a player level.

Play Nice Policies - Activity within EverQuest II
In addition to the general guidelines listed in section 1.0, players are also subject to these supplementary rules while playing EverQuest II. While by no means an all-inclusive list of the do's and don'ts in EverQuest II, it provides a suitable foundation by which the player can determine what activities are appropriate.
1. Loot Distribution Options selected by the group leader are not contestable.
  • When you join a group, be sure to check the loot options selected by the group leader. By joining the group, you agree to these options. Should the group leader change the group loot options, you will receive a notification in your chat window that states " has changed the group options."It is your responsibility to check the group options at this time. You may leave the group should you disagree with the options selected by the group leader; however, remaining in the group signifies your acceptance of these options.
  • Should a group leader continually change these options in order to deceive group members, and this is documented on server via the /report command, a Customer Service Representative may arbitrate a loot dispute and disciplinary action may be taken against the group leader should the CSR determine a malicious intent.
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Old 07-09-2012, 03:12 PM   #11
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Darkholis wrote:

Guys, I understand your points and they are correct, dmg rating is the only good thing on myths but gotta put yourself in tanks shoes. We (tanks) are pretty much forced to take on 6s delay weapons an a shield to do any group/raid content. Scouts have options for 4s and 6s weapons.....I mean, good for you but ''hey, could I have more weaps choices too as a tank?'' Like I said in prior posts, SOE gotta either add str to the myth spear/scout bow OR limits the items to a specific archtype,

PS - To the OP, sorry to break your fun but their is no way SOE gonna ban that player since it's not a vialoation of the rules of conducts.

The statement you made in green, would be worth some further investigation. I have heard of people getting in trouble for actions as described in the OP. I believe it would fall under the fair play clause, if it still exists.In regards to the OP, I would not want to see any changes made to the loot system, without extensive planning, extensive testing, and unanimous agreement of improved functionality. Otherwise, it risks making things worse. This whole situation is a "community" problem, one of which a petition to the CS team would cover things, if a violation did occur.

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Old 07-09-2012, 03:24 PM   #12
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This definately needs to be changed, to prevent loot ninjas.

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Old 07-09-2012, 03:26 PM   #13
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Or change the items themself which is 10 times easier imo.

Btw http://help.station.sony.com/app/an...%20of%20conduct

Loot Distribution Options selected by the group leader are not contestable.When you join a group, be sure to check the loot options selected by the group leader. By joining the group, you agree to these options. Should the group leader change the group loot options, you will receive a notification in your chat window that states " has changed the group options."It is your responsibility to check the group options at this time. You may leave the group should you disagree with the options selected by the group leader; however, remaining in the group signifies your acceptance of these options.Should a group leader continually change these options in order to deceive group members, and this is documented on server via the /report command, a Customer Service Representative may arbitrate a loot dispute and disciplinary action may be taken against the group leader should the CSR determine a malicious intent.

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-Raiding is not all about dps, it's about a flawless script execution.

-I do not valuate a raid force on the number of kills they got, I instead valuate it on the number of flawless they achieved.

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Old 07-09-2012, 03:29 PM   #14
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Darkholis wrote:

Or change the items themself which is 10 times easier imo.

Btw http://help.station.sony.com/app/an...%20of%20conduct

Loot Distribution Options selected by the group leader are not contestable.When you join a group, be sure to check the loot options selected by the group leader. By joining the group, you agree to these options. Should the group leader change the group loot options, you will receive a notification in your chat window that states " has changed the group options."It is your responsibility to check the group options at this time. You may leave the group should you disagree with the options selected by the group leader; however, remaining in the group signifies your acceptance of these options.Should a group leader continually change these options in order to deceive group members, and this is documented on server via the /report command, a Customer Service Representative may arbitrate a loot dispute and disciplinary action may be taken against the group leader should the CSR determine a malicious intent.

Notice the word 'continually' in there, $OE will do NOTHING about this through support. 

Changing loot rules needs to be OK'd be every memeber via a pop up if it is changed after the group is formed.

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Old 07-09-2012, 03:33 PM   #15
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CoLDMTL wrote:

Changing loot rules needs to be OK'd be every memeber via a pop up if it is changed after the group is formed.

This seems like a reasonable  solution.

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Old 07-09-2012, 03:35 PM   #16
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CoLDMTL wrote:

Darkholis wrote:

Or change the items themself which is 10 times easier imo.

Btw http://help.station.sony.com/app/an...%20of%20conduct

Loot Distribution Options selected by the group leader are not contestable.When you join a group, be sure to check the loot options selected by the group leader. By joining the group, you agree to these options. Should the group leader change the group loot options, you will receive a notification in your chat window that states " has changed the group options."It is your responsibility to check the group options at this time. You may leave the group should you disagree with the options selected by the group leader; however, remaining in the group signifies your acceptance of these options.Should a group leader continually change these options in order to deceive group members, and this is documented on server via the /report command, a Customer Service Representative may arbitrate a loot dispute and disciplinary action may be taken against the group leader should the CSR determine a malicious intent.

Notice the word 'continually' in there, $OE will do NOTHING about this through support. 

Changing loot rules needs to be OK'd be every memeber via a pop up if it is changed after the group is formed.

That's why I'm saying it's not gonna happen.

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-Raiding is not all about dps, it's about a flawless script execution.

-I do not valuate a raid force on the number of kills they got, I instead valuate it on the number of flawless they achieved.

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Old 07-09-2012, 03:37 PM   #17
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[email protected] wrote:

CoLDMTL wrote:

Changing loot rules needs to be OK'd be every memeber via a pop up if it is changed after the group is formed.

This seems like a reasonable  solution.

Should take about an hour of dev time to since the 'ready'ness check is basically the same thing.

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Old 07-09-2012, 03:40 PM   #18
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Darkholis wrote:

CoLDMTL wrote:

Darkholis wrote:

Or change the items themself which is 10 times easier imo.

Btw http://help.station.sony.com/app/an...%20of%20conduct

Loot Distribution Options selected by the group leader are not contestable.When you join a group, be sure to check the loot options selected by the group leader. By joining the group, you agree to these options. Should the group leader change the group loot options, you will receive a notification in your chat window that states " has changed the group options."It is your responsibility to check the group options at this time. You may leave the group should you disagree with the options selected by the group leader; however, remaining in the group signifies your acceptance of these options.Should a group leader continually change these options in order to deceive group members, and this is documented on server via the /report command, a Customer Service Representative may arbitrate a loot dispute and disciplinary action may be taken against the group leader should the CSR determine a malicious intent.

Notice the word 'continually' in there, $OE will do NOTHING about this through support. 

Changing loot rules needs to be OK'd be every memeber via a pop up if it is changed after the group is formed.

That's why I'm saying it's not gonna happen.

The game right now is really catering to these people though, people who complain get banned.  The people doing it get rewarded with more loot coin etc.

Someone is on their ear somewhere.

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Old 07-09-2012, 03:43 PM   #19
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100% agreed

If devs look here eventually....they might want to check this out since it's affecting a good bunch of players. http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=519862

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Old 07-09-2012, 03:45 PM   #20
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Darkholis wrote:

Or change the items themself which is 10 times easier imo.

Btw http://help.station.sony.com/app/an...%20of%20conduct

Loot Distribution Options selected by the group leader are not contestable.When you join a group, be sure to check the loot options selected by the group leader. By joining the group, you agree to these options. Should the group leader change the group loot options, you will receive a notification in your chat window that states " has changed the group options."It is your responsibility to check the group options at this time. You may leave the group should you disagree with the options selected by the group leader; however, remaining in the group signifies your acceptance of these options.Should a group leader continually change these options in order to deceive group members, and this is documented on server via the /report command, a Customer Service Representative may arbitrate a loot dispute and disciplinary action may be taken against the group leader should the CSR determine a malicious intent.

You may not defraud other players. Fraud is defined as falsely representing one's intentions to make a gain at another's expense. Examples of this activity include, but are not limited to, using deception to deprive another player of items or coin (by trade scamming or any other method), slandering another player or impersonating them with the intention of causing harm to that player's reputation, or falsely representing one's identity in order to gain access to another player's account or account information. Fraud in all transactions between players may result in disciplinary action when confirmed by an EQII CSR.That was pulled from the same rules you linked. (in section 5)As per the rules specific to changing loot options, a leader can change loot rules. But changing the loot rules AFTER the chest has been opened, amounts to fraud (based on how the dictionary describes fraud), as the group made a kill under the expectation of NBG loot, which it was until after the box was opened.The affected people should simply petition to SOE.

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Old 07-09-2012, 05:12 PM   #21
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CoLDMTL wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

CoLDMTL wrote:

Changing loot rules needs to be OK'd be every memeber via a pop up if it is changed after the group is formed.

This seems like a reasonable  solution.

Should take about an hour of dev time to since the 'ready'ness check is basically the same thing.

Unless you're familiar with that area of code I don't see how you can possibly say that with certainty.  Sure, if it was well coded with reusability in mind it could easily take very little time.  Do you really think that?  We're talking about SoE and EQ2 here.  Or to be more specific, a code base over 10 years old that has seen countless hasty changes in direction, patches, and hacks.

Actually, I suspect the coding at SoE isn't all that bad compared to some places I've had the misfortune of working at, but I definately wouldn't be too confident of everything being in place just for something like this.  More then likely we're talking about several days of developer time -- time which could have also been used chasing bugs or putting in some other feature.  And even if it really does only take an hour (I doubt that) there's still QA time, time to merge the change in with the rest of the code base, time to roll it out, etc. 

This change isn't free.  So how important is this change in the greater scheme of things?  How many times has this happened in the last month?  Doing it means other things won't get done.  Is it worth it?

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Old 07-09-2012, 05:23 PM   #22
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Gilasil wrote:

Unless you're familiar with that area of code I don't see how you can possibly say that with certainty.  Sure, if it was well coded with reusability in mind it could easily take very little time.  Do you really think that?  We're talking about SoE and EQ2 here.  Or to be more specific, a code base over 10 years old that has seen countless hasty changes in direction, patches, and hacks.

Actually, I suspect the coding at SoE isn't all that bad compared to some places I've had the misfortune of working at, but I definately wouldn't be too confident of everything being in place just for something like this.  More then likely we're talking about several days of developer time -- time which could have also been used chasing bugs or putting in some other feature.  And even if it really does only take an hour (I doubt that) there's still QA time, time to merge the change in with the rest of the code base, time to roll it out, etc. 

This change isn't free.  So how important is this change in the greater scheme of things?  How many times has this happened in the last month?  Doing it means other things won't get done.  Is it worth it?

No special knowledge of their code base.  I would assume they follow reasonable (or at least some kind of) standards.

Every change is probably weighed against future /petitions in cost, or at least you hope it is some metric like that.  i would bet this happens more than you think. 

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Old 07-09-2012, 06:01 PM   #23
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CoLDMTL wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

CoLDMTL wrote:

Changing loot rules needs to be OK'd be every memeber via a pop up if it is changed after the group is formed.

This seems like a reasonable  solution.

Should take about an hour of dev time to since the 'ready'ness check is basically the same thing.

As long as your only doing that for groups.  If I have to get 24 people on a raid to confirm everytime it needs to be changed, I will not be happy.

The real issue can be policed socially.

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Old 07-09-2012, 06:24 PM   #24
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CoLDMTL wrote:

Gilasil wrote:

Unless you're familiar with that area of code I don't see how you can possibly say that with certainty.  Sure, if it was well coded with reusability in mind it could easily take very little time.  Do you really think that?  We're talking about SoE and EQ2 here.  Or to be more specific, a code base over 10 years old that has seen countless hasty changes in direction, patches, and hacks.

Actually, I suspect the coding at SoE isn't all that bad compared to some places I've had the misfortune of working at, but I definately wouldn't be too confident of everything being in place just for something like this.  More then likely we're talking about several days of developer time -- time which could have also been used chasing bugs or putting in some other feature.  And even if it really does only take an hour (I doubt that) there's still QA time, time to merge the change in with the rest of the code base, time to roll it out, etc. 

This change isn't free.  So how important is this change in the greater scheme of things?  How many times has this happened in the last month?  Doing it means other things won't get done.  Is it worth it?

No special knowledge of their code base.  I would assume they follow reasonable (or at least some kind of) standards.

Every change is probably weighed against future /petitions in cost, or at least you hope it is some metric like that.  i would bet this happens more than you think. 

As for how easy it would be to implement, that depends on their architecture and what kind of existing infrastruture they have in place for a general purpose situation like this etc.

The sad fact is, that in a corporate environment when you're under pressure to produce things quickly, it's easy to produce code which handles a given situation, but can't be extended to handle another very similar situation.  Couple that with the additional sad fact that many probrammers simply aren't that good.  Yes that's bad but it happens.  A lot.  Remember that this would require changes to both client and server (mostly server) and requires some sort of synchronization between multiple active clients.  We simply don't know how easy it is to implement.

Also, every time you touch the code there's a chance of breaking something else.  We've all seen features which broke other fatures in this game.  That is not just a problem with SoE but with all large feature rich codes.  Again, we don't know what the risk would be in this situation.

Whether they should do something would probably come down to how often do problems like this occur vs how hard THEIR estimation of the change is and the risk of breaking something else when they make the change.  Only they can make that estimation.  If the change is long and costly with a high risk of introducing bugs they'd be crazy to spend much time on it.  If the problem occurs several times a day and the change is easy with low risk of introducing new bugs, then maybe they should do something. 

I suspect this kind of problem doesn't happen all that frequently and isn't worth either the time spend or the risk of breaking something else in order to make a change which only solves this one problem. 

But in the end it's their call.

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Old 07-09-2012, 06:26 PM   #25
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Darkholis wrote:

 slandering another player or impersonating them with the intention of causing harm to that player's reputation,

*Please do not quote forum violations*

Um...It isn't slander if it's true.  If those people in channels were crying in open chat about how the individual stole an item, or looted an item under fraudulant circumstances, then they were not in fact slandering him, but reporting to the community that the player in question cannot be trusted.

Dictionary.com defines slander as "a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report"

Fraud is defined as "deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage."

Sounds to me like the group in question could very well petition SOE and report the group leader for fraudulent behavior.  Whether anything would come of it, I don't know. 

I do think that it would bring more problems if changes were made to looting.  There are many instances in raiding where it is necessary to change looting rules and I would hope that any changes would not affect raiding.  There are also scenarios in which a group leader would legitimately change loot rules, so while I sympathize with the OP, I disagree to the idea of asking SOE to change the looting rules in order to address the situation.

*Edit- The stuff I copied from dictionary.com was light grey and unreadable.  Not sure how to make somethign the same color as default text so I brightened it up a bit. 

Also grr I hate that these freaking forums make me constantly relog back in....I had to login just to edit the post I literally made seconds ago.

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Old 07-09-2012, 06:32 PM   #26
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[email protected] wrote:

As long as your only doing that for groups.  If I have to get 24 people on a raid to confirm everytime it needs to be changed, I will not be happy.

The real issue can be policed socially.

This.  

Would the event have been such a big deal if it wasn't the mythical item?   Aside from annoying and you deciding you wouldn't group with the person again?

Because the item was so important to the group, I would petition against the guy who did it.  It was fraud if he changed loot options after the box was open, and therefore against the EULA.   Not sure what resolution to the matter you'd get, except satisfaction if there was a disciplinary action.  Unless they took the item away from the guy..IDK how helpful it would be.

Unless he's a known jerk - at which point I'd have to ask why you grouped with him in a zone that might drop the mythical in the first place - maybe he'd had it stolen out from under him a few times and was reacting to that.

I don't want to see that loot mechanic put in - in short.  I agree with Atan.   That's a social policing thing.

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Old 07-09-2012, 06:51 PM   #27
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gatrm wrote:

Darkholis wrote:

 slandering another player or impersonating them with the intention of causing harm to that player's reputation,
*Please do not quote forum violations*

Um...It isn't slander if it's true.  If those people in channels were crying in open chat about how the individual stole an item, or looted an item under fraudulant circumstances, then they were not in fact slandering him, but reporting to the community that the player in question cannot be trusted.

Dictionary.com defines slander as "a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report"

Fraud is defined as "deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage."

Sounds to me like the group in question could very well petition SOE and report the group leader for fraudulent behavior.  Whether anything would come of it, I don't know. 

I do think that it would bring more problems if changes were made to looting.  There are many instances in raiding where it is necessary to change looting rules and I would hope that any changes would not affect raiding.  There are also scenarios in which a group leader would legitimately change loot rules, so while I sympathize with the OP, I disagree to the idea of asking SOE to change the looting rules in order to address the situation.

*Edit- The stuff I copied from dictionary.com was light grey and unreadable.  Not sure how to make somethign the same color as default text so I brightened it up a bit. 

Also grr I hate that these freaking forums make me constantly relog back in....I had to login just to edit the post I literally made seconds ago.

Like I said, what the guy did was unaccepteable but you're more or less right there. I have np to see peeps reporting in the open chat a guy who did something bad and that kind of stuff. It's always good to know who to group or not with, but doing it during 2 hours....sorry, that's a lil childish there.

So far, yes it's not slandering besides being really annoying (yes I should close the general chat) but today, they crossed the line imo. They pretty much asked the entire server during a good 30 mins to do massive petitions to get the guy banned....sorry, that's what I call a vendetta. Trying to hurt a player's reputation in-game for any reasons IS a banneable offense.

PS - Ninja looting been a recurrent problem since day one in EQ1. I 100%  agree, it's a community problem.

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Old 07-09-2012, 06:58 PM   #28
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[email protected] wrote:

The real issue can be policed socially.

Be honest, you don't change it that often do you?  Once or twice a raid night.

I disagree, as someone has pointed out, this really is only a problem with 'mythicals' as most people dont care much about the rest.  And while i have never seen a mythical drop I assume the drop rate is very very low and thus the number of times this happens is very low.

A person like me may only get 1 chance to get that mythical item in my lifetime.  And if it is ninja looted like this and SOE does nothing thats very sour grapes to me.

With so little grouping going on you rarely find the same person again, so most people would never notice you 'ignoreing' them.  Such low populations v=prevent the social policing that used to occur.

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Old 07-09-2012, 07:01 PM   #29
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Darkholis wrote:

. Trying to hurt a player's reputation in-game for any reasons IS a banneable offense.

PS - Ninja looting been a recurrent problem since day one in EQ1. I 100%  agree, it's a community problem.

Abso-freaking-lutely this is why we need these kind of checks because $OE will not let you police it socially.  by simply commenting in this thread earlier it earned me a 2 week ban.  That kind of heavy handed policing by 'the state' prevents us from handling these things socially, and thus we need a 'state' remedy.

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Old 07-09-2012, 07:12 PM   #30
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CoLDMTL wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

The real issue can be policed socially.

Be honest, you don't change it that often do you?  Once or twice a raid night.

I disagree, as someone has pointed out, this really is only a problem with 'mythicals' as most people dont care much about the rest.  And while i have never seen a mythical drop I assume the drop rate is very very low and thus the number of times this happens is very low.

A person like me may only get 1 chance to get that mythical item in my lifetime.  And if it is ninja looted like this and SOE does nothing thats very sour grapes to me.

With so little grouping going on you rarely find the same person again, so most people would never notice you 'ignoreing' them.  Such low populations v=prevent the social policing that used to occur.

The mythicals in those zones with a 90 minute reset effectively drop like candy compared to the raid that raid loot which is much harder to obtain and can not be solo'd/molo'd/duo'd while semi AFK.

It really is not SOE's job to police this, you have choices in who you group with.

This discussion that is going on is just one example of why these drops did not belong in these zones in the first place.

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