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Old 11-17-2011, 06:58 PM   #1
Tapies

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Hello All.

I'm a long time MMOer.  I've played EQ1 when it was at its most Uber Punish-o-matic (it still may be that rough, likely a bit gentler), and a metric tonne of MMOs since.  Its a very long list, and as I doubt I'm the only one with such a list on these forums I'll spare the text space.

I'm here trying out EQII for two reasons.

1)  I miss EQ, the freedom of play, the feeling of personal empowerment it provided.

2)  I am very disappointed with SWTOR.  I feel they're delivering a terrific single player game (KOTOR 3 deluxe perhaps) with many typical MMO tropes, but that they will have a big challenge maintaining their user base once the story elements have been consumed, because they're missing the point on what makes MMOs special.  They want to control so much, it limits the imagination of the players, and deeply limits any meaningful individuality.

So, that ramble aside.. 

What is it about EQII that makes it enjoyable for you?  I've read SOE's sales pitches, but I'd rather get the straight goods from gamers themselves.  Do you feel there are great ways to facilitate your own identity, and be a part of the world that stands out?

I'd greatly appreciate your thoughts.  I hope EQII, being as established as it is offers what I'm looking for. 

Thanks

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Old 11-17-2011, 08:26 PM   #2
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You're a few years too late. EQ2 is past its prime.

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Old 11-17-2011, 08:34 PM   #3
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I liked

Meaningful contested mobs

Interesting loot drops

Challenging content that focused on player ability as opposed to gear pre-reqs

Challenging dungeon crawls

This game has now shifted their focus away from those areas and simply refuses to look back at what made this game successful in the first place.

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Old 11-17-2011, 08:41 PM   #4
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Personally I like GROUP content.  It's interesting that the OP says SWOTOR is delivering a single player experience, it seems that's the way most MMO's are going until you reach the top end.  I like the social aspect of MMO's, especially when it's a group of like minded people who get together to defeat a challenge they couldn't defeat on their own.  To me the social aspect is the soul of a MMO and it's a shame to see the industry go downhill so fast into pink fluffy marketplace items.  Remember this is my and only my opinion.

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Old 11-17-2011, 08:54 PM   #5
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The lack of meaningful multiplayer beyond the instances / raids is one significant element of what disappoints me about SWTOR.  Can I hope there are upgradeable shared Guild structures that can be different from each other?

Are there ways I can contribute to a guilds efforts as a newer player in the mix?

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Old 11-17-2011, 09:17 PM   #6
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Tapies wrote:

The lack of meaningful multiplayer beyond the instances / raids is one significant element of what disappoints me about SWTOR.  Can I hope there are upgradeable shared Guild structures that can be different from each other?

Are there ways I can contribute to a guilds efforts as a newer player in the mix?

There are three tiers of guild halls on either side (Qeynos/Kelethin/Halas and Freeport/Neriak/Gorowyn), six different ones in total. While there is only six to choose from you and your guild can decorate the inside of them however you see fit. As your guild levels more amenities can be put into the hall as well for your guild's convenience.

As a new player you can pick up either craft or adventure writs that both earn you personal status and give a bit of status to the guild which can help to level it if it's not already level 90. With the personal status you earn, you can also deposit that (and also coin) into your guild hall's escrow to help with the hall's upkeep.

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Old 11-17-2011, 09:20 PM   #7
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Crismorn wrote:

I liked

Meaningful contested mobs

Interesting loot drops

Challenging content that focused on player ability as opposed to gear pre-reqs

Challenging dungeon crawls

This game has now shifted their focus away from those areas and simply refuses to look back at what made this game successful in the first place.

Totally agree with this. Also want to add that the game was far more fun before SC and the marketplace were introduced. Now with F2P and the increased chances of true pay-to-win gaming coming with it the game has a pretty good chance of being even less fun for the original gamers that made EQ and EQ2 successful.

These days I mostly log in, raid and log out after raid or play alts because friends and guildmates aren't around much except for raiding. If too many more friends and guildmates continue leaving that it stops any real raid activity I'll probably have no real reason to log in which would make any sub pointless.

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Old 11-17-2011, 09:49 PM   #8
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I like

incredible number of quests of which many are interesting and funny

exploring a big world, much larger than Lotro

not a black / white characterization . eg. Goblins aren't all evil like in Lotro but hilarious

very nice festivals with good quests and even dungeons

great lore and backstories

great customization of skills with the AA trees

Dont like

game is being made easier for faster leveling up

some quests are now near meaningless - eg. getting passage on ships to unlock new continentsI did the quest anyway, but it's kinda weird when you've already been at the destination. it kinda takes away the sense of achievement.

EQ2 players are a backwards crowd (many of them) most dont have Teamspeak3 client or even a working microphone (Raiders probably have, didnt raid yet) to use ingame voice

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Old 11-17-2011, 09:54 PM   #9
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I believe I read that some facet of the marketplace was going away, but to be frank if someone wants to ruin their own sense of achievement by paying for an item through SOE it's their loss.

There will be a dip with every new product like Skyrim or SWTOR that comes out but I think/hope EQII still has an awful lot going for it that would encourage them to come back - doesn't it?

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Old 11-17-2011, 10:28 PM   #10
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Tapies wrote:

There will be a dip with every new product like Skyrim or SWTOR that comes out but I think/hope EQII still has an awful lot going for it that would encourage them to come back - doesn't it?

Honestly that's a tough one, at least for me. I'd have a clearer answer after playing SWTOR. If you're just starting out with EQII I could see if having a lot to offer someone. However after playing this game for over 3 years and sitting at end-game right now, there's not a whole lot of new stuff that would make me come back if I went over to SWTOR unless I really didn't like it. I would have thought the new "expansion" would have enough to make me stay but as it stands there's not even enough in it to even make me consider pre-ordering.

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Old 11-17-2011, 11:14 PM   #11
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Tapies wrote:

I believe I read that some facet of the marketplace was going away, but to be frank if someone wants to ruin their own sense of achievement by paying for an item through SOE it's their loss.

There will be a dip with every new product like Skyrim or SWTOR that comes out but I think/hope EQII still has an awful lot going for it that would encourage them to come back - doesn't it?

They are only taking away certain power items until they do more research on what the players want, which many of us know it just a tactical ploy to later reintroduce them to the marketplace, this is why you hear "pay to win" so much these days.  I highly doubt they will stay off the marketplace if they were bringing in any sort of profit for SOE.  You have to understand that a lot of players now do not want a sense of achievement, they just want the same gear that it takes others months of hard work to get in a raid.  Everyone has to drive a Ferrari now, even if it is purchased off of the marketplace instead of earned.  Hey it makes SOE money so you can't argue with their business decisions.

As for the dips they get worse and worse.  The dip with the release of Rift was very bad IMO, it took quite a while for the population to become halfway decent but then the itemization disaster really scared many off.  My raiding guild never quite recovered from this last dip, and it's apparent enough on the raiding sites that even the top end guilds are recruiting and hurting for players.  Even though SWOTOR will be the same solo marketplace pushbutton junk that Rift is I have a feeling we are going to see a massive dip when it's released, sure the F2P will bring in an influx of players and this is obviously why they are doing it in the same time frame as SWOTOR.  But the type of player will be substantially different.  EQ2 is selling its soul to make a profit in F2P land, and those players will be searching for something which has more substance like EQ2 used to have, I'm not sure it exists though as I haven't found it yet myself.

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Old 11-18-2011, 01:53 AM   #12
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Used to play around 5 hrs a day, now i'm down to 9 hrs all week just to raid then log off. Nothing really left to do, skipping next expansion due to price vs content. Let's hope the expac after is like the previous expacs, everything all bundled together, then I might shell out the cash.

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Old 11-18-2011, 04:27 AM   #13
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Sounds like a lot of negative Nancys have replied so far. I enjoy the game still - I have been playing since one year after it launched. I play about 12-15 hours a week. I do quests, tradeskilling, World events (holidays and festivals), with my main (level 90) and all my alternate characters (levels 50-80).

It's true they've changed it to make levelling up easier, and if you want, you can reach the level cap in a very short time. But you can also lock your experience and explore all the content the game has to offer, which is a LOT. My friends and I have recently been hitting the Chronomancer (they can temporarily lower your level for you), so we can finish up old quests we passed on our original run up. It's amazing how many places and things we never even knew existed in this game!

There's just so many things to do, that unless you're only interested in getting to the end and raiding, you'll never be able to do it all.

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Old 11-18-2011, 05:13 AM   #14
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Crismorn wrote:

I liked

Meaningful contested mobs

Interesting loot drops

Challenging content that focused on player ability as opposed to gear pre-reqs

Challenging dungeon crawls

This game has now shifted their focus away from those areas and simply refuses to look back at what made this game successful in the first place.

This x1000.  Everything now is how much crit mit/crit chance you have not how good you are at your class.

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Old 11-18-2011, 05:28 AM   #15
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[email protected] wrote:

Sounds like a lot of negative Nancys have replied so far. I enjoy the game still - I have been playing since one year after it launched. I play about 12-15 hours a week. I do quests, tradeskilling, World events (holidays and festivals), with my main (level 90) and all my alternate characters (levels 50-80).

It's true they've changed it to make levelling up easier, and if you want, you can reach the level cap in a very short time. But you can also lock your experience and explore all the content the game has to offer, which is a LOT. My friends and I have recently been hitting the Chronomancer (they can temporarily lower your level for you), so we can finish up old quests we passed on our original run up. It's amazing how many places and things we never even knew existed in this game!

There's just so many things to do, that unless you're only interested in getting to the end and raiding, you'll never be able to do it all.

Yes because talking about what made this game successful makes us all negative it cant possibly be that the game moved away from what brought us here.

There is lots to do if you just started in the last year and have yet to hit 90/300, everyone else is kinda done assuming you didnt stand in a guild hall all day in chat channels accomplishing nothing.

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Old 11-18-2011, 06:25 AM   #16
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Things that make EQ2 fun for me:

Playing the market, making money from selling junk, and figuring out where to spend my time to make a good return from selling items.

My carpenter and the husing in EQ2 - I always felt very insecure in EQ1 as I didn't have a house, having to sleep out in the open was not fun to me. EQ2 housing is one of the reasons I've stayed playing (on and off) since launch.

Collections - heaps of fun!

Harvesting - there's nothing quite like finding a rare, even if you don't need the money, or it's not worth a whole lot, it's still fun.

Finding a good Pick Up Group and blowing through an instance.

Exploring an area you've never been to, even if it's a low level zone.

Quests - there are 1000's of them, some great some dumb, but there are plenty.

Helping other players out - there is a great EQ2 community, people are always needing help and in my experience happy to help when you need it.

Guides - these guys are about quite a lot with random quests and mini events - guides and players who have joined a programme to make Norrath more enjoyable for other players.

Flying - this has added sooooo much to the game, old zones seem new when you can fly above them.

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Old 11-18-2011, 06:47 AM   #17
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Nynaeve wrote:

EQ2 players are a backwards crowd (many of them) most dont have Teamspeak3 client or even a working microphone (Raiders probably have, didnt raid yet) to use ingame voice

Or, they have small children they don't want to wake up while playing.

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Old 11-18-2011, 08:54 AM   #18
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Playing since 2005. I took breaks for other games. Not because i wanted to leave, just because i am curious.

EQ2 is a game with an awesome amount of content. Most of it is story driven and/or motivated by appearance items, titles and housing items. Yes, marketplace furniture and a few other items there may be a problem, but not a big one tbh.

However, EQ2 past Kingdom of Sky turns more and more into a mainstream product. It plays and feels like all other games. Its solo content or instance farming and tiering through raids without any deeper meaning. Drahatar was a completely different raid target then the epics nowadays.

Coming back to EQ2 gets harder every time. Velious is so similar to Rift, just Rift does it better since it is its design. WoW does WoW better then EQ2. One flaw have all those games with their tier grind. If you take a break for whatever reason, then you are doomed to casual gaming. All those games have massive problems to recruit appropriate itemized classes for raids. Emphasis on items  turns those games into jobs or demanding amateur sports. There is a reason why raiders use the same language as sportsmen. Players even sit on the virtual bank and wait for ther chance to wack on a named. Usually they start with trash Thats not bad.. but not an adventure online game And to please both groups requires quite some development time..

Edit: Usually i come back to max out AA and because i still have low level titles, HQs and books to do. I d like to finish some green quests, but Ng instances have dps checks and clickies preventing me from soloing it. Instances and raids are out of question due to "gearscore". I try to do those instances with quests in them though.

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Old 11-18-2011, 09:01 AM   #19
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Befor the quality.

Now the bugs and exploit.

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Old 11-18-2011, 09:02 AM   #20
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eq2 is an awesome game!!

When I take a break and play other games-- if find myself missing eq2 and my Ratonga !!!

  I think the game gets better with time ...(it has something for everyone)

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Old 11-18-2011, 10:07 AM   #21
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Guildmates. That's pretty much it lately.

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Old 11-18-2011, 10:19 AM   #22
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[email protected] wrote:

Sounds like a lot of negative Nancys have replied so far. I enjoy the game still - I have been playing since one year after it launched. I play about 12-15 hours a week. I do quests, tradeskilling, World events (holidays and festivals), with my main (level 90) and all my alternate characters (levels 50-80).

It's true they've changed it to make levelling up easier, and if you want, you can reach the level cap in a very short time. But you can also lock your experience and explore all the content the game has to offer, which is a LOT. My friends and I have recently been hitting the Chronomancer (they can temporarily lower your level for you), so we can finish up old quests we passed on our original run up. It's amazing how many places and things we never even knew existed in this game!

There's just so many things to do, that unless you're only interested in getting to the end and raiding, you'll never be able to do it all.

This! We have a lot of negative nancy's on the forums lately.  There are literally TONS of things to do, that frankly with 3 lvl 90s and innumerable other alts, i sometimes sit in front of the PC trying to figure out what to do first with who etc... If anything, if you like immersion into this genre this is the best game out there, even over eq1 (which i played for 5 yrs or so)...

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Old 11-18-2011, 10:40 AM   #23
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darwich wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Sounds like a lot of negative Nancys have replied so far. I enjoy the game still - I have been playing since one year after it launched. I play about 12-15 hours a week. I do quests, tradeskilling, World events (holidays and festivals), with my main (level 90) and all my alternate characters (levels 50-80).

It's true they've changed it to make levelling up easier, and if you want, you can reach the level cap in a very short time. But you can also lock your experience and explore all the content the game has to offer, which is a LOT. My friends and I have recently been hitting the Chronomancer (they can temporarily lower your level for you), so we can finish up old quests we passed on our original run up. It's amazing how many places and things we never even knew existed in this game!

There's just so many things to do, that unless you're only interested in getting to the end and raiding, you'll never be able to do it all.

This! We have a lot of negative nancy's on the forums lately.  There are literally TONS of things to do, that frankly with 3 lvl 90s and innumerable other alts, i sometimes sit in front of the PC trying to figure out what to do first with who etc... If anything, if you like immersion into this genre this is the best game out there, even over eq1 (which i played for 5 yrs or so)...

You are clearly playing a different game to me.

And again, this "Negative Nancy" puts in an appearance.  Wow, that must make you "FanBoy Freddy" I suppose.  Perhaps that makes me "Realistic Reginald" or maybe "Honest Horace"?

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Old 11-18-2011, 12:05 PM   #24
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Chipping in again.

I appreciate both points of view on this.  I realize I was pitching woo to the fans of the game, looking for what you love about EQ2, and that naturally springs 'what I USED to love about it..' as a thread.

On the bad side of things, like other MMOs, it sounds like EQ2 has become a bit easy, reducing some of the sense of accomplishment.  As well, the Pay to Win problem is real, but I believe there is room for this to improve.

On the good, it appears that there is a LOT to enjoy, with a supportive community, reams of quests, a very large world, housing (I'm hoping I can craft my own, with a fair amount of distinctiveness), significant guild options and the nutty amount of classes and races to enjoy.

Am I missing something significant in my tiny encapsulation?

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Old 11-18-2011, 12:06 PM   #25
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I love pushing alot of buttons, eq2 loves this too!

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Old 11-18-2011, 12:34 PM   #26
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kahonen wrote:

darwich wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Sounds like a lot of negative Nancys have replied so far. I enjoy the game still - I have been playing since one year after it launched. I play about 12-15 hours a week. I do quests, tradeskilling, World events (holidays and festivals), with my main (level 90) and all my alternate characters (levels 50-80).

It's true they've changed it to make levelling up easier, and if you want, you can reach the level cap in a very short time. But you can also lock your experience and explore all the content the game has to offer, which is a LOT. My friends and I have recently been hitting the Chronomancer (they can temporarily lower your level for you), so we can finish up old quests we passed on our original run up. It's amazing how many places and things we never even knew existed in this game!

There's just so many things to do, that unless you're only interested in getting to the end and raiding, you'll never be able to do it all.

This! We have a lot of negative nancy's on the forums lately.  There are literally TONS of things to do, that frankly with 3 lvl 90s and innumerable other alts, i sometimes sit in front of the PC trying to figure out what to do first with who etc... If anything, if you like immersion into this genre this is the best game out there, even over eq1 (which i played for 5 yrs or so)...

You are clearly playing a different game to me.

And again, this "Negative Nancy" puts in an appearance.  Wow, that must make you "FanBoy Freddy" I suppose.  Perhaps that makes me "Realistic Reginald" or maybe "Honest Horace"?

Lol Fanboy Freddie, I love it!

For me it's really been 7+ years of the same exact quests to get my toon to 90, and I have a lot of alts.  Really I just ran out of things to do.  I despise crafting with a passion, I can't sit there for hours upon hours just whack a moleing random buttons, soloing I've done it all at least 15 times so I just can't do the solo quests anymore, pre 90 dungeons no one does them except to zerg so that's not really an option other than the 10 minutes it takes to do them, housing is cute I can see why some like it, but I get bored pretty quickly of it, maybe if they let me construct my own structure I might be more into it.

It's just this one point that a lot of players don't get.  THere is an ever shrinking playerbase (who used to be the majority) who live primarily for one thing, the excitement of taking a group of players and electronically killing something difficult which requires the player to excel his gear and skills and also requires the playerS to successfully interact with each other to succeed.  We all may have varying degrees of like for the other features of the game, but at the end of the day those difficult encounters and their rewards is what drives us.  This is what we are lamenting the loss of in this game.

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Old 11-18-2011, 02:42 PM   #27
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Tapies wrote:

Chipping in again.

I appreciate both points of view on this.  I realize I was pitching woo to the fans of the game, looking for what you love about EQ2, and that naturally springs 'what I USED to love about it..' as a thread.

On the bad side of things, like other MMOs, it sounds like EQ2 has become a bit easy, reducing some of the sense of accomplishment.  As well, the Pay to Win problem is real, but I believe there is room for this to improve.

On the good, it appears that there is a LOT to enjoy, with a supportive community, reams of quests, a very large world, housing (I'm hoping I can craft my own, with a fair amount of distinctiveness), significant guild options and the nutty amount of classes and races to enjoy.

Am I missing something significant in my tiny encapsulation?

You've pretty well nailed it, honestly. The community I can't speak of on other servers, but on AB at least there are still a fair number of nice helpful folks.

For a new player, there is plenty to keep you entertained for YEARS in EQ2 assuming you can stomach SoE's changing vision for the game. I would think that would affect us long term players far more than a new person, however.  The housing system really is outstanding here....has kept my wife thoroughly engrossed for over 6 years, with no signs of stopping soon. The push for double dipping with the marketplace having more things introduced than are available purely in game has slowed the interest a bit, but hasn't stopped it by any means. We don't use it, and still find quite a bit to work with.

A lot of the content has been made easier, but can always just push into areas above your level for a challenge before you hit 90. After that...yeah, it is a gear driven game with very little skill involved at the high end. But, I would think there would be plenty of fun to be had up to that point for most any playstyle.

TL;DR- Yeah, would be fun for a new player. Try it out.

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Old 11-18-2011, 02:45 PM   #28
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Adaeon wrote:

 After that...yeah, it is a gear driven game with very little skill involved at the high end. But, I would think there would be plenty of fun to be had up to that point for most any playstyle.

Wow, that's not something I've heard before.  You don't raid then?

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Old 11-18-2011, 02:53 PM   #29
Adaeon

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kahonen wrote:

Adaeon wrote:

 After that...yeah, it is a gear driven game with very little skill involved at the high end. But, I would think there would be plenty of fun to be had up to that point for most any playstyle.

Wow, that's not something I've heard before.  You don't raid then?

We may have different notions of skill. I prefer to have a fight that requires the players to know every facet of their class and be able to use all of their abilites rather than gear check/dps check/gimmicky scripts. Just my take. I don't care to argue, but what are your thoughts on end game content for the past few years? I'm always open to hearing new viewpoints. Maybe you have a take on it that could make me reconsider mine SMILEY

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Old 11-18-2011, 09:09 PM   #30
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Adaeon wrote:

kahonen wrote:

Adaeon wrote:

 After that...yeah, it is a gear driven game with very little skill involved at the high end. But, I would think there would be plenty of fun to be had up to that point for most any playstyle.

Wow, that's not something I've heard before.  You don't raid then?

We may have different notions of skill. I prefer to have a fight that requires the players to know every facet of their class and be able to use all of their abilites rather than gear check/dps check/gimmicky scripts. Just my take. I don't care to argue, but what are your thoughts on end game content for the past few years? I'm always open to hearing new viewpoints. Maybe you have a take on it that could make me reconsider mine

Now this will be just from my viewpoint as a raider, but some of this applies to groups as well. I definitely think skill is needed at end-game. True, there are some DPS-check mobs, but past that it involves a great deal of player skill.

I'm thinking of healers especially with mobs that hit hard or have certain effects that need to be taken care of ASAP. If your healers have no skill at all - when to cure/pre-cure, use emergency heals, death saves, debuffs, when to coordinate with other healers - your raid is dead. This goes for grouping as well. Heck a guildmate of mine went into a horrific group pug where the healer didn't even have his group cure upgraded, so the group kept constantly dying. Sounded like the healer was clueless all around (Didn't even know what a pot cure was). So at least with that example, gear will not do squat for you if you're a terrible player. I could go on about tanks but that's another kind of rant, haha.

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