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Old 07-28-2010, 05:34 AM   #841
TigTiger

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Nolrog wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Once again you cater to the people that aren't even playing the game over the people that are paying you salary's now.

IMO you are shooting yourself in the foot.  I think you will lose more people than you gain with this.

Can anyone spell:  SWG NGE?

By pulling out NGE every time SOE makes a change (the last time was the EQ Live forums, someone screamed NGE) you diminish the disaster that NGE really was.  This is not even in the same galaxy as NGE.

Actauly....this is, but not in the insanely negative way most people usualy relate to NGE. Heh... I found this... http://rubenfield.com/?p=84

Which seems EXTREMELY relavent. And it's from over 4 years ago fer gods sake. Er. BTW. The link is NSFW if your boss likes to read over your shoulder and dosent like cusswords. SMILEY

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Old 07-28-2010, 05:42 AM   #842
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TigTiger wrote:

EQ2Player wrote:

SmokeJumper wrote:

This is not necessarily permanent. But we'll have to discontinue the copy service first, *and* we'll need to feel that players won't get upset about characters coming from the Extended servers.

The only REAL concern you folks do seem to address, is this phantom "Concern" that players do not want Marketplace items and F2P characters mingling with traditionally leveled characters.

I would imagine most of us do not care and further, would opt for a single set of servers where F2P players were kept with the existing community, rather than segregated.

Please tell me where I was ever able to add my voice to this Paramount Concern that is evidently the backbone to the segregated server model. If you feel these concerns are so paramount, how about an in-game Poll to get a true statisic from existing accounts where we can provide real feedback.

I read these forums alot. I just don't post all over the place. The "Phantom" concern you talk about as far as people not wanting anything on the marketplace that gave someone ANY kind of stat increse was EXTREMELY real. Apparently you never read the VOLUMES of feedback after the new Marketplace Cat mounts came out where anyone and everyone came screaming out of the woodwork about how these mounts were so totaly unfair and were going to ruin the game and they were all going to quit.....etc...etc....

Who knows maybe they did. The stats they actualy affected were INFANTESIMAL compared to a characters stats over about lvl 15-20 but by god all the "NO STAT ITEMS ON THE MARKETPLACE" people were screaming the walls down about how it was the beginning of the end of the game.

So no, it's not a "Phantom" concern. It's a very REAL concern. You just missed it...

The stats on that mount aren't INFINTESIMAL.  They are competitive with the best mounts in the game.  Selling low tier MC equivalent gear is not comparable.  It might be a step down a slippery slope, but realistically, the mount is a more significant item than some mastercrafted gear.

Also, that thread rates nowhere near this thread as far as volume, and likely in the deletion/ban department either.  Pay for stat items is a smaller concern to the future of the game than the impact of drawing all new players to a brand new server and erecting a wall between them and us.  If this becomes the game model, it is only a matter of time before the live servers dwindle to insignificance along with our investment in our characters.  They talk about character copy, but how exactly are all of our no-trade quest rewards supposed to make it over?  Will we have the opportunity to re-do the quests?  More importantly, why would we want to on a character that has already done them?

They most certainly thought about this for the couple of hours it took to copy and paste the LoTR FTP rules, but they clearly didn't have the right people in the room.  Management is PR oriented and the devs are likely way too distracted by the little pieces they have to develop.  Clearly, no one with an understanding of the whole game dynamic was present, or they didn't have the guts to tell their boss what he didn't want to hear.  It is our job to tell our supplier that they are out of their minds, but we need to recognize what our priorities are.  Otherwise, we can end up getting what was asked for first, but not necessarily our best option.

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Old 07-28-2010, 05:49 AM   #843
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TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:

Purr wrote:

* I think the creation of X is completely unneccessary if you offer +stat wares on the marketplace that can also be obtained the old fashioned way: in game. This would make the whole "He has money to spend, I don't, so I can't get stuff as good or as good looking as he has!" issue a non issue! Let us obtain those things both ways and implement the F2P on existing servers with a strict level limit (maybe of 80). Keep 2 or 3 servers the old fashioned way and offer free moves + [name]x changes for  for a limited time to please the absolute hardcore people.

Here's the thing; and endgame item takes 24 people weeks to get the strat to kill the mob nailed down, and then often several months of repeatedly killing it to farm the item. As a rough calculation, every bit of *good* raid fabled loot, once you filter out the junk drops, is about 100 man-hours of effort, if not more. If that same item is available for $5, you value that effort at an incredibly insulting 5 cents an hour. You take what should be a priceless reward for days of effort and co-operation, and sell it for less than the cost of a Happy Meal. Massive devaluation of effort is the only option, because if you think even in terms of $10/man hour, then who's going to pay $1000 for a virtual item?

I'm of course aware that RMT and legal or illegal trading of items has been going on for a long time, but the key difference is those items RMT'ed have at some stage been earned, and the person who earnt it has decided that the price they sold it for justifies the effort they went to to get it. This is very, very different from the developers pulling the same item from the ether and sticking it on a broker. And it also begs the question, why then bother to do anything in the game? You can buy with a credit card everything you'd achieve, so what you actually have left is Second Life with elves. The idea of money buying an advantage in a game goes against the very concept of a game itself: it's no different to a chess player paying $500 for a second Queen, or a football team getting a free touchdown for $10k.

The devs know this, but by God, they're desperate to figure a way round it and tap into that revenue stream. What they'll soon see is the problem with treasured or even legendary items being available for $ is that, quite simply, nobody will buy them. The 1-90 game is so fast there's no need to buy a shiny new treasured shield for $2. What I'm sure a minority - or even majority - would buy is T9 Fabled and Mythical, and the core issue the devs will need to face is whether selling these items results in a viable revenue stream, or just kills the game server. I strongly suspect the latter, and the fact this is getting rolled out on separate servers suggests the devs also see this as a huge gamble.

I still feel frustrated that SOE won't take the real gamble, of listening to the community, forgetting the financial bottom line for a few months, and making the best [Removed for Content] end-game they possibly can. Particularly in terms of itemisation, class balance, PvP, and encounter design. I remain convinced that low level fixes, content, and 'golden paths' don't attract or retain players. If you have a happy, engaged, and well-promoted endgame community, then new players will happily grind through what low level content there is to join it. I'm not convinced this endeavour is anything but another misplaced initative from the same people who killed SWG with the NGE in search of a mythical subscriber base at the expense of their existing one, and despite paying lip-service to lessons learned, still haven't really learnt the best way to build a financially successful MMO is to create - and maintain - a really good endgame.

Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with you on these comments. I've been playing the game for about 3 years now and i'm not as "be all end all" focused on endgame content as you seem to think everyone is. I've only briefly been in a raiding/endgame content guild and I have to say it pretty much made me want to tell anyone who's only focused on raiding/endgame to go get a life and stop playing the game for hours and hours a day and treating everyone in the game as if they don't spend hours reading EQ2Flames or whatever site about how to EXACTLY setup their toon to raid, that they are somehow a failure in the game and for gods sake dont EVER ask me or anyone I know to raid with us again untill your not a total F***ing noob and learn how to play your class. 

I realize not all people who are focused on raiding are like that but unfortunately that has been my experience in most cases with people who are primarily into the game for raiding and endgame content. I have one toon at lvl 90 and 6 others rangeing from the 30's to the upper 60's in level. I can't, and in general most people who have a life/job/family/school to take care of, cant afford to have 2 or 3 accounts to 2box with and raise their characters to lvl 90 in 4 days or less. And they don't have the time to spend playing the game hours a day to do this otherwise.

I enjoy the content of the game; ALL the content of the game. I'm not going to suggest or imply to people that work every day of the week that the time they spent programing that new lvl 40 quest with the cute new character or cool quest plot twist was "wasted" time.

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Old 07-28-2010, 05:57 AM   #844
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Nolrog wrote:

SmokeJumper wrote:

heh. Somehow I doubt that I wouldn't be facing the same negative passion, albeit from different players,

Nah, it would be the same people complaining.  You could tell them that EQ2 was free for them forever and that you'd wash and wax their car every week as a curtosey for playing and they'd complain that you missed a spot or that you were rubbing clockwise instead of counter clockwise.  Some people just like to complain.

QFE!!! QF EXTREME TRUTH AND JUSTICE!!! OMG I'M ROFLMAO Right now.... SMILEY

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Old 07-28-2010, 06:09 AM   #845
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  It seems quite clear what the end result of this will be.  Some players will leave live servers for the extended servers.  Pretty well no new players will come to live servers, and they will continue to dwindle.  At some point, the player-base will beg for a combination of the new and old model just to have people on the servers again.  Then, SOE can just say that they are just listening to player feedback when the F2P model spreads to all live servers.  That's when the universe will end, the Void will swallow all, and you can stick a fork in Norrath.  It's done.  Be sure to have a towel.  Well, no...

  It will fine, and the game will continue.  And yet...  I know this is the way of the future.  This is the way games are going.  That is that.  If you don't like it, you will find yourself in an ever shrinking niche.  But this is a horrible thing.  I realize someone did it first, and everyone has to follow along in the name of profits.  I have no problem with profit, it what a company exists for. 

  This is a bad path we are headed down.  Why play the maze if a straight line will get you through?  What is the reason for playing?  Why bother, when there is no challenge?  What is the point of playing the game when you just pay through?  So you can rush through, and then complain about being bored?  The challenge is the fun, the meat of the game.  Go on and tell me that this doesn't affect the challenge, this just speeds up the grind.  The grind is part of the challenge!  If it wasn't, why do I have to repeat some stupid boring quest over and over just to get a useless title?  Why not just get it for the first completion and move on?  I imagine some will just say, "Yeah, why not?"  *Sigh*

  This is just so very sad.  We grow so lazy as a people.  Not that SOE can do anything about it.  They could make a stand against it and etc. and etc.  And then be left behind.  So very sad.  Ah well, who knows.  The Romans collapsed even though they knew they never would, ushering in a dark age that brought down pretty well all the(non-Asian) world.  A global reset button, if you will.  Maybe we will get lucky and another reset is just around the corner

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Old 07-28-2010, 06:11 AM   #846
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TigTiger wrote:

TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:

Purr wrote:

* I think the creation of X is completely unneccessary if you offer +stat wares on the marketplace that can also be obtained the old fashioned way: in game. This would make the whole "He has money to spend, I don't, so I can't get stuff as good or as good looking as he has!" issue a non issue! Let us obtain those things both ways and implement the F2P on existing servers with a strict level limit (maybe of 80). Keep 2 or 3 servers the old fashioned way and offer free moves + [name]x changes for  for a limited time to please the absolute hardcore people.

Here's the thing; and endgame item takes 24 people weeks to get the strat to kill the mob nailed down, and then often several months of repeatedly killing it to farm the item. As a rough calculation, every bit of *good* raid fabled loot, once you filter out the junk drops, is about 100 man-hours of effort, if not more. If that same item is available for $5, you value that effort at an incredibly insulting 5 cents an hour. You take what should be a priceless reward for days of effort and co-operation, and sell it for less than the cost of a Happy Meal. Massive devaluation of effort is the only option, because if you think even in terms of $10/man hour, then who's going to pay $1000 for a virtual item?

I'm of course aware that RMT and legal or illegal trading of items has been going on for a long time, but the key difference is those items RMT'ed have at some stage been earned, and the person who earnt it has decided that the price they sold it for justifies the effort they went to to get it. This is very, very different from the developers pulling the same item from the ether and sticking it on a broker. And it also begs the question, why then bother to do anything in the game? You can buy with a credit card everything you'd achieve, so what you actually have left is Second Life with elves. The idea of money buying an advantage in a game goes against the very concept of a game itself: it's no different to a chess player paying $500 for a second Queen, or a football team getting a free touchdown for $10k.

The devs know this, but by God, they're desperate to figure a way round it and tap into that revenue stream. What they'll soon see is the problem with treasured or even legendary items being available for $ is that, quite simply, nobody will buy them. The 1-90 game is so fast there's no need to buy a shiny new treasured shield for $2. What I'm sure a minority - or even majority - would buy is T9 Fabled and Mythical, and the core issue the devs will need to face is whether selling these items results in a viable revenue stream, or just kills the game server. I strongly suspect the latter, and the fact this is getting rolled out on separate servers suggests the devs also see this as a huge gamble.

I still feel frustrated that SOE won't take the real gamble, of listening to the community, forgetting the financial bottom line for a few months, and making the best [Removed for Content] end-game they possibly can. Particularly in terms of itemisation, class balance, PvP, and encounter design. I remain convinced that low level fixes, content, and 'golden paths' don't attract or retain players. If you have a happy, engaged, and well-promoted endgame community, then new players will happily grind through what low level content there is to join it. I'm not convinced this endeavour is anything but another misplaced initative from the same people who killed SWG with the NGE in search of a mythical subscriber base at the expense of their existing one, and despite paying lip-service to lessons learned, still haven't really learnt the best way to build a financially successful MMO is to create - and maintain - a really good endgame.

Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with you on these comments. I've been playing the game for about 3 years now and i'm not as "be all end all" focused on endgame content as you seem to think everyone is. I've only briefly been in a raiding/endgame content guild and I have to say it pretty much made me want to tell anyone who's only focused on raiding/endgame to go get a life and stop playing the game for hours and hours a day and treating everyone in the game as if they don't spend hours reading EQ2Flames or whatever site about how to EXACTLY setup their toon to raid, that they are somehow a failure in the game and for gods sake dont EVER ask me or anyone I know to raid with us again untill your not a total F***ing noob and learn how to play your class. 

I realize not all people who are focused on raiding are like that but unfortunately that has been my experience in most cases with people who are primarily into the game for raiding and endgame content. I have one toon at lvl 90 and 6 others rangeing from the 30's to the upper 60's in level. I can't, and in general most people who have a life/job/family/school to take care of, cant afford to have 2 or 3 accounts to 2box with and raise their characters to lvl 90 in 4 days or less. And they don't have the time to spend playing the game hours a day to do this otherwise.

I enjoy the content of the game; ALL the content of the game. I'm not going to suggest or imply to people that work every day of the week that the time they spent programing that new lvl 40 quest with the cute new character or cool quest plot twist was "wasted" time.

I meant to go back and comment on this post.  Thanks for dredging it up.

The assertions regarding raiding are not accurate, nor appropriate.  First, 100hrs per item is an exaggeration.  A full gear-up of 21 slots would then require on average 2100hrs = 87.5 days of play time.  Raiders have a lot of play time, but not enough to hide the 87.5 days it took to get themselves geared up in addition to the extra time for their alts.  The time investment per item is just not as high as claimed.  There wouldn't be so many raiders with only a couple of hundred days played under their belt.

The second problem is the valuation of time.  Time spent playing a game is not worth $10/hr.

However, this is all moot, because they can settle for selling mediocre gear for $5+ per.

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Old 07-28-2010, 06:23 AM   #847
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Lorriana wrote:

 I know this is the way of the future.  This is the way games are going.

Interview with Hiromichi Tanaka (Final Fantasy XIV):

These days there's a ton of free-to-play browser games and similar products for the PC and online gaming audience. Do you feel like the landscape has changed significantly? I mean, obviously, it has changed significantly since you launched FFXI. So, how do you view that competitive marketplace?HT: I think a lot of other titles have given up challenging the monthly subscription fee market because World of Warcraft is so big. However, those microtransaction-type games, or the free games, they're good sometimes, but they're going to have a really short life. So, we still think as a huge MMO, monthly subscription fees should be the mainstream -- and this is a mainstream MMO.

Hope this will work for them (I guess that if it's really a mainstream MMO it will work for them). Maybe SOE needed to advertise his product for it to succeed. Because they have the best MMORPG out there, and they are needing to do this...

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Old 07-28-2010, 06:31 AM   #848
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There seems to be some confusion here as to the nature of SOE. They are a business. They are not a community organization, they are not your friends. Their purpose is to make money, not to make you happy. If the business model for Free-to-Play (+ cash money for extras) was not already proven to make bigger profits than Subscription-Based Play, they would not even be trying it.

You are not going to change their minds about this new service by complaining about how it will affect your enjoyment of the game because of dwindling server population. They don't care if you threaten to quit. They've got a dozen "Farmville" fanatics all lined up to take your place and pay $5 for a pretty robe, $20 for a horsie, $10 for a new sword, etc.

I can't believe anyone is surprised at this development.

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Old 07-28-2010, 06:31 AM   #849
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Sacra Magice wrote:

Lorriana wrote:

 I know this is the way of the future.  This is the way games are going.

Interview with Hiromichi Tanaka (Final Fantasy XIV):

These days there's a ton of free-to-play browser games and similar products for the PC and online gaming audience. Do you feel like the landscape has changed significantly? I mean, obviously, it has changed significantly since you launched FFXI. So, how do you view that competitive marketplace?HT: I think a lot of other titles have given up challenging the monthly subscription fee market because World of Warcraft is so big. However, those microtransaction-type games, or the free games, they're good sometimes, but they're going to have a really short life. So, we still think as a huge MMO, monthly subscription fees should be the mainstream -- and this is a mainstream MMO.

Hope this will work for them (I guess that if it's really a mainstream MMO it will work for them). Maybe SOE needed to advertise his product for it to succeed. Because they have the best MMORPG out there, and they are needing to do this...

  The trouble is, I really think the majority of players want to be able to buy their way to the end.  As I said, the old model will become the niche.  Maybe not.  Live Gamer, or whatever it is now, didn't exactly go over.  Maybe it was just before it's time.  I just...  I really think this is the way it's going.  I tend to be right more often than I'm wrong.  I quite hope I'm wrong this time.  *shrug*

Just to add, I think he is right about the lack of longevity though.  That may be the thing that ends up saving the old model.  The crowd that plays that way tends to have less loyalty.  They don't hang out after reaching the "end."  They head for the new thing.  It is a quite possibly that the end result will be a merging of the two models, as SOE seems to be trying. 

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Old 07-28-2010, 06:36 AM   #850
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Rothgar wrote:

Rashaak wrote:

Nolrog wrote:

Rashaak wrote:

Nolrog wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Deadeyes wrote:

from his interview: 

Are you afraid that this might fragment the community by creating two different services?[Long pause] ...We're going to have to wait and see. The players have told us they didn't want this stuff and that's why it's a completely separate area...

So, here Dave admits that the we (the players) have told SOE that they don't want this stuff, and somehow, he thinks it's a good idea to do it anyway.  Server merges could be a possible solution, he says.  I hate to say it, but I'd rather have Brenlo back than this guy.

The players said they didn't want F2P on the existing servers.  That's what he's commenting on, judging from previous posts from SmokeJumper.  He didn't say players didn't want it at all. 

The new hardware is for the F2P, and since they want to go the way of F2P, any upgrade in hardware will mean a switch to F2P, that is the model they want. The experiment is to see how well the new hardware supports EQ2X and it's population, and then slowly phase out existing servers to F2P

Smoke already said that the new hardware was not for the F2P.  It was to replace the server clusters from 2 existing servers and that the F2P will use hardware already in the company.

I read that, but he said elsewhere the new hardware will be for F2P. Either way...new hardware will equal EQ2X servers, and phase out of existing servers (through server merge) will be implemented after EQ2X goes live.

The new EQII hardware has 6x as many CPU's and 12x as much RAM as the old hardware, per machine.  This is such a huge difference in hardware capacity that we think we can turn the EQII servers into mega-servers with twice as many players or more than what you have now on AB or Nagafen.  To do this, we would need to merge some of the servers together which changes our hardware requirements.  This is why we aren't ordering a boatload of hardware in the beginning.  We need to see how the servers do with the new machines and what sort of load they can handle.

We're very dedicated to the original EQII servers.  The new EQ2X service isn't going to change that.  This is why you're getting the new hardware and EQ2X isn't!

Wow...Rothgar can you bring one to FanFaire so it can "accidentaly" get lost at my house after FF is over ?

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Old 07-28-2010, 06:39 AM   #851
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so it's going to be one PvE server? With it being F2P, character transfers wont work?

personally i would rather stay on Everfrost/Nagafen. just curious to know if it would be possable to go from Sub 2 F2P and or vice versa.

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Old 07-28-2010, 06:46 AM   #852
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Also, if this is supposed to be an alternative to the 14-day-trial method... why can't players transfer to the current Live servers from the F2P ?

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Old 07-28-2010, 06:58 AM   #853
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[email protected] wrote:

There seems to be some confusion here as to the nature of SOE. They are a business. They are not a community organization, they are not your friends. Their purpose is to make money, not to make you happy. If the business model for Free-to-Play (+ cash money for extras) was not already proven to make bigger profits than Subscription-Based Play, they would not even be trying it.

You are not going to change their minds about this new service by complaining about how it will affect your enjoyment of the game because of dwindling server population. They don't care if you threaten to quit. They've got a dozen "Farmville" fanatics all lined up to take your place and pay $5 for a pretty robe, $20 for a horsie, $10 for a new sword, etc.

I can't believe anyone is surprised at this development.

A good business instills loyalty in their customers.  Loyalty and image is much more important when selling to the uninformed than product quality.

Many of the most successful companies have a reputation for quality.  It doesn't matter how good the actual item is, it's the perception that matters, not the reality.  Look at Apple, it produces decent hardware, nothing really special, somewhat overpriced.  But because of it's 'hip' image people will buy Apple products over idential or better products which cost less simply because it's Apple.  Look at Google, it has a reputation for being 'for the masses' and so generally gets the benefit of the doubt from the majority of the population no matter what they do. 

SOE have the worst image of all of the MMO companies.  Blizzard may be a massive monstrosity of an organisation, but at least it doesn't give the impression of caring not a whit for their customers.  CCP may make collosal goofs whe it comes to the technical side of the operation but again, they seem to value their players (more than any other company).

As someone who has been an SOE customer for more than 5 years I can say that impression I get from SOE is that we're viewed as walking wallets, there for the taking.

I still believe that EQ2 is one of the best products on the market, but I also believe SOE to be the worst kind of company.  One that doesn't even bother to look to it's customers as if it cares.  This is, unfortunately, the way the world works.  If it can make money then it is encouraged.  My only option is to try and ensure that it doesn't make money, by taking my money to a company which exhibits the business practices I want to see and not the ones I don't.

I'm sick to the ears of the lies and veiled truths that SOE puts out with every contentious release (LoN, SC, This).

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Old 07-28-2010, 07:08 AM   #854
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Are they putting rares in the marketplace on the Live servers?

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Old 07-28-2010, 07:19 AM   #855
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Brook wrote:

Are they putting rares in the marketplace on the Live servers?

If they do thats it i'm off so long as things stay apart then fine but if it changes..

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Old 07-28-2010, 07:46 AM   #856
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Brook wrote:

Are they putting rares in the marketplace on the Live servers?

yes.. in bundles of 5...  T9 is $10 for 5 rares.  They are marked as Heirloom so they can't be sold on the broker. 

Master Crafted weapons and armor is also for sale.

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Old 07-28-2010, 07:56 AM   #857
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[email protected] wrote:

I know this model, Smoke, and it's absolutely brilliant... that is, if you can pull it off. 

For the playerbase, the gist of the model is based on a divide and conquer concept, with a twist.  It has almost a flawless success rate (except when they try to rush it or it gets mangled in the translation to another location).  It's the same model many insurance companies and the Government are using to to stop cigarette smoking btw.  They're using your money and your children against you.

First you divide (obviously) and attract new employees/people already on board.  This introduces a new element to the culture you want all the while keeping them away from the influcences of the old culture.  You entrench them (the newbs) to the behaviors you want to change so they only know "that way". 

you then offer modest incentives to the new culture all the while broadcasting throughout the entire old and new employee base.  Broadcasting is a key component here, it must stay positive from a broadcasting point all the while keeping the old employee base away from inputing comments to the new employee base (hence the separate servers and boards).

This queres the interest of some in the old employee base and creates "doubt" (doubt is key).  You continue to build on the "grass is greener" concept.  (you can see the start of this with the plat membership of 10 toon slot compaired to the current 7 for only $30 more).

Slowly (slowly is the key word) you increase the rewards and lessen the broadcasting (dim the lights on the old employee base) this REALLY gets them talking because now they are wondering  "what's going on?"  It creates fasination to cause more people to "check it out". 

Here's were the twist kicks in, peer pressure.  People talk, more importantly, "friends" talk.  The model uses the loyalies people have with each other and at this point, it's completely employee driven.

You keep increasing the rewards (modestly) and gaining the interest, all the while telling the old employee base, "I'm sorry, you told us you didn't want to be part of this."  You exclude them, which really facinates them.  Until you get the "Hey, they have it better, I want better too".  Which you reply, "Sorry, this is only for NEW model employees" if you want it you have to come "on board".  And Viola... rinse and repeat until you have everyone but the die hards, the die-hards that refuse to commit get removed".  "Sorry we're closing this server, there's no employee interest playing like this anymore".

It's easier to change the landscape with a tidal wave, then drops of water.

The Key here is "if" they are going to release new accounts to the old servers or "flip the switch giving them access to everything" on the current server so they don't have to leave their friends.  My bet is they will keep them on the current server .

This is how they are going to get micro-transactions and F2P into the entire playerbase without the playerbase revoiting... the playerbase with scream for it.  What's going to make or break it is how much response they get from new players joining the free to play.  I bet we see a HUGE advertising push.

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Old 07-28-2010, 08:02 AM   #858
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[email protected] wrote:

Brook wrote:

Are they putting rares in the marketplace on the Live servers?

yes.. in bundles of 5...  T9 is $10 for 5 rares.  They are marked as Heirloom so they can't be sold on the broker. 

Master Crafted weapons and armor is also for sale.

Are you sure you're answering the question? I don't know the answer, but I just want to verify Pauly that you're saying that they are going to put rares on the non-f2p servers

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Old 07-28-2010, 08:02 AM   #859
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[email protected] wrote:

Brook wrote:

Are they putting rares in the marketplace on the Live servers?

yes.. in bundles of 5...  T9 is $10 for 5 rares.  They are marked as Heirloom so they can't be sold on the broker. 

Master Crafted weapons and armor is also for sale.

No, they WON'T be hitting Live servers. They will be for sale in EQ2X servers (so, the f2p ones) though.

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Old 07-28-2010, 08:04 AM   #860
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[email protected] wrote:

Brook wrote:

Are they putting rares in the marketplace on the Live servers?

yes.. in bundles of 5...  T9 is $10 for 5 rares.  They are marked as Heirloom so they can't be sold on the broker. 

Master Crafted weapons and armor is also for sale.

Unfortunately there's nothing stopping a dedicated crafter buying those, making them into items and selling them on the broker.

Specifically I mean CA's/Spells at expert quality rather than armor and weapons, as people can just plunk down cash for those anyways. Would be interesting to find out if the products are heirloom only, and if the byproducts (dusts for rare potions/poisons/whatever) are also heirloom.

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Old 07-28-2010, 08:06 AM   #861
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I have literally read 57 pages of  posts and would like to add my comments as a newer player.

I don't think the issue here is FTP or that FTP will have it own server's, the issue many posts have expressed that there is no FTP server option to move to the Live servers.

As a newer player of EQ2 *Just over a  month now and just purchased the latest expansion*  im very concerned over my investment into EQ2. I purchased the expansion in good faith that the game would be as populated as it is now and i wouldnt be forced to spend more money to enjoy what im already paying for.

I so far have seen multiple players express there concern's and some have cancelled there accounts in the 57 pages of posts and the lack luster responces from EQ2 staff in replying to the MOST Obvious questions players would ask.

If you want to just go F2P (well actually PTP lets be realistic) then have the balls to just do it and dont kill the live servers  the way your so far doing it, if you had that much faith in your new model the lost of a few thousand  live players in introducing on live servers a FTP (PTP) option wouldnt worry you.

I personally have no issues with live servers having a FTP option, however my only concern would be the goldsellers, ever been on a FTP? try Runes of Magic, its insane re the ammount of gold sellers ...

And just one more thing, $35 per char to move to a FTP server...get a grip

Oh and answer ( the issue many posts have expressed that there is no FTP server option to move to the Live servers.) This already.....

TY

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Old 07-28-2010, 08:19 AM   #862
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Day 2# Aftermath of FTP

I look around and see the all carnage. Bodies lay open with their heart bleeding. Have you seen jimmy? I was told I was to protect jimmy? 

I lost 10 friends who cancel their accounts so far. I tried to tell them it be FTP on another server but it didn’t work. I told them the next expansion is coming this winter but even velious didn't hold their attention. They felt their game was being used in order to help sony's pocket money then help the game itself.

Some even said WOW looking good. (which I was shocked to hear)

In the end I knew it wouldn’t matter to sony who left FTP will make them more money in long run but will FTP games really last? Yes it seems the cool thing now but what of the future? We know that subscription base works. It has been proven time and time again. Time will tell.

So what now to do? I have to rebuild a raid force. Already on my server it seems most people already in a raiding guild. Where do we get the new blood? Do i just quite too? I been playing eq2 since beta. I also played eq1 in beta as well. The only time I stop playing eq is when my computer didn’t work with game and 2 months later I got married. Then I was back to eq. I am kinda hard core you could say.

FTP doesn’t sound good to me cause I cant budget that type of thing. In this hard economy it is easy for me to budget a subscription then just buying things at whim. I can't just lay down $200 at once for a year. 

I do understand my friends feeling. When you been with game as long as me you feel proud of the game. It feels like it is your game. When you do changes without really getting input from the community it feels like the new people came and doing whatever you want with game. That the old core doesn’t matter to you.

I think this is why most people are mad but what can we do? It is not our game. It is not like we have input into what sony does. We are not on the board of directors for soe, So we are powerless..

So do I quite now? Do i become another Casualties of War?

My answer is no. I will stay in hopes that sony will make a good next expansion. In hopes maybe that FTP will stay off normal servers. I will stay even the whole server has only 2 raiding guilds left. I will stay to watch the server mergers until we have only 2 live servers left.

At the end of all it. When FTP games are things of the past. When sony learns not to put all eggs in one basket. When eq2 is getting beat by the other mmmos that people been waiting years. Then the light will shine on the next SOE game. I will be right their to play in the beta of Everquest 3 "The Rebirth of Kunark"

If you watch the movie 1900 you will understand when I say I will keep playing even when the ship blows up.

 

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Old 07-28-2010, 08:20 AM   #863
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Request- For us vet players............. that will most likely go play on the new server...

Can you flag my account so I keep all my vet rewards?  

I HAVE PLAYED THIS GAME SINCE LAUNCH....would be nice to have my vet rewards waiting for my new toons on the new servers.  

Or better Yet...  Why not allow your Vet Players  (1) Free Copy/transfer to the new server?  

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Old 07-28-2010, 08:30 AM   #864
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steelbadger wrote:

A good business instills loyalty in their customers. Loyalty and image is much more important when selling to the uninformed than product quality.

Many of the most successful companies have a reputation for quality. It doesn't matter how good the actual item is, it's the perception that matters, not the reality. Look at Apple, it produces decent hardware, nothing really special, somewhat overpriced. But because of it's 'hip' image people will buy Apple products over idential or better products which cost less simply because it's Apple. Look at Google, it has a reputation for being 'for the masses' and so generally gets the benefit of the doubt from the majority of the population no matter what they do.

SOE have the worst image of all of the MMO companies. Blizzard may be a massive monstrosity of an organisation, but at least it doesn't give the impression of caring not a whit for their customers. CCP may make collosal goofs whe it comes to the technical side of the operation but again, they seem to value their players (more than any other company).

As someone who has been an SOE customer for more than 5 years I can say that impression I get from SOE is that we're viewed as walking wallets, there for the taking.

I still believe that EQ2 is one of the best products on the market, but I also believe SOE to be the worst kind of company. One that doesn't even bother to look to it's customers as if it cares. This is, unfortunately, the way the world works. If it can make money then it is encouraged. My only option is to try and ensure that it doesn't make money, by taking my money to a company which exhibits the business practices I want to see and not the ones I don't.

I'm sick to the ears of the lies and veiled truths that SOE puts out with every contentious release (LoN, SC, This).

How do you arrive at this conclusion?It's because of player feedback and (imo the irrational) reaction to RMT that lead to this split service. If players weren't so hung up on how others obtain their gear SoE wouldn't have had to come up with an entirely different set of servers and rulesets.

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Old 07-28-2010, 08:36 AM   #865
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+1 to fbitt's post above me
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:55 AM   #866
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/F2P Copy official? i cant see having a sub character and a F2P character on the same account....

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Old 07-28-2010, 09:03 AM   #867
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I am a new player to EQ2 and have a few questions and suggestions.

Questions:

1)  Will paying for a subscription to the regular EQ2 Live servers entitle my account to make GOLD-service on EQ2 extended servers, or will I be forced, if I want to try out the new service, to put my current account on hold while I use the gold service on the new servers?  On the other hand, will it work on reverse?  Will paying for gold service in EQ2EX entitle someone to make "normal" subscription characters that will be available while their gold status remains? Or are the services completely different to the point that you cannot have both without paying for 2 accounts?

2)  What will happen to current VET rewards on the new servers?

Suggestiongs/Feedback

1)  I believe that segregating your comunity is not a very good thing.  I think that F2P should be implemented on current servers, but flag those servers as "Cash Shop restricted" to the free players so they know that cash shop services will only include account options (new races and classes or other membership boosts) and current marketplace items.

2) I think there is too little a value in upgrading to a silver membership.  This is basically one upgrade that you want anyone who is minimaly serious about playing EQ to make.  I would suggest giving limited broker access (can buy, and a single broker slot) as an additional.  It will also make sure that the economy of the new servers is actually good since you need the broker to get that going.

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Old 07-28-2010, 09:06 AM   #868
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fbitt wrote:

How do you arrive at this conclusion?It's because of player feedback and (imo the irrational) reaction to RMT that lead to this split service. If players weren't so hung up on how others obtain their gear SoE wouldn't have had to come up with an entirely different set of servers and rulesets.

Is this even in response to my post?

I didn't complain about RMT.  I complained about SOE flat out lying (about LoN not leading to RMT or SC never introducing items with actual stats), about SOE bending the truth ('Your subscription model wont be changing' when asked about F2P) and probable self delusion (The claim that SC wont reduce the number of new models coming to the normal game, of course it reduced it.  There's only so many artists in the world and finances dictate that you put them where they generate the most income).

The fact is that at every step they have denied that this was their target.  Well we can now see those lies for what they are, and I am ill at easy with sponsoring a company that makes a point of lying to it's customers just because it makes it's life easier.

On the subject of your post:

I do not want to play on the F2P servers, first of all.  It's more expensive to keep access to the things I currently have, and I'd need to start anew.

But I don't have to, you say.  I don't have to now.  The free trial is gone.  The people who switch from extended to live will be few and far between so I can be fairly sure that this will accelerate the population die-off on my server.  This will leave me unable to enjoy the game the way I like to play it (on Live servers) and forced, if I wish to continue playing EQ2, to pay through the nose for the F2P servers.

I can see the inevitable conclusion now; F2P.  I don't like it.

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Old 07-28-2010, 09:08 AM   #869
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  BTW -  I would rather our Servers go FTP 

I do not care if they add RMT for gear..or Rares...or anything in game.  

If people want to buy their gear ...LET THEM

Why does anyone care ???....as long as the same item can be obtained with in the game (questing or killing)

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Old 07-28-2010, 09:10 AM   #870
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The marketplace items are nothing but the currently existing master crafted sets right now.
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