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Old 11-08-2017, 03:00 PM   #91
Ocarinah

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What did I do before guild harvesters and pack pony/goblin? I would stay up all night harvesting for my hubby to level his crafters and would have to mail him the mats because I never had enough room in my bags. That was back when due to my disability I could only sleep 2 hours if I was lucky. I couldn't keep up even though I must have spent 8 hours or more a day, every day, harvesting. He would run out of mats before he would run out of vitality. I actually hate crafting. Watching 4 lines and clicking a few buttons over and over is not fun at all. There is no thrill of wondering if some uber loot will drop or seeing a really cool zone or a unique fight that must be tried a few times to figure out or getting to hang out with friends or family. Knowing I can make awesome house items is the only thing that gets me to craft nowadays. The only reason why I leveled crafters is because everyone always promised they would make me stuff, send them rares and mats to help them level and then never get anything from them. Now why do I keep leveling up crafters, for the harvesting pony and goblin. I need tons of mats for decorating and holiday events. I cannot harvest anymore cuz it hurts my hands/wrists too much. There is already too much trying to get enough etherwood for decorating projects since those mats are not available with any harvester.

Every expansion I get left behind adventure wise and pretty much have given up on most adventuring. There was lots of stress having people hounding me about my crafters getting to max and having all recipes. Doesn't matter if you can only get recipes in raid zones and I don't raid anymore. I was expected to have those recipes anyway with no help. The pressure was just too much and crafting switched so that raiders had to become crafters so I left the raiding guild I was helping. The number of writs we need to do to level is overwhelming to me. Now to find out I will have to harvest everything myself to get 9 crafters max level without a sig line I am beyond frustrated. November and December are crazy months with holiday season in/out of game, weather, etc. Not a good time to find out that cannot count on harvesters to bring mats to level up. Have been frustrated trying to find harvesting nodes. I am lucky that I am in a solo guild. Back when I was in a guild, I always somehow ended up with responsibility of keeping harvest depot full. I cannot imagine those that are expected to do so and level up all the crafters and keep up with the adventuring being too happy with this news. Not knowing when we can expect crafting things to be added to expansion is concerning to people (ugh soon™!!!) .

Suggestions:
  • Get guild harvesters upgraded before expansion launch.
  • Increase number harvesting nodes.
  • Give expected date to receive tradeskill timeline.
  • Give expected date to receive upgrade to harvesting pony.
  • Give expected date to receive upgrade to KA rare harvest plant.
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:20 PM   #92
Febrith

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Absolutely agree with ALL that and those suggestions - for those of us that are pretty much exclusively TS'ers/Decorators this isn't even funny - I'm already P.O that there's no indication of when the Tradeskill timeline is going in - it makes me feel like my particular part of the EQ community is being highly undervalued.
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:56 PM   #93
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Before PoP, we were also able to level through questing. A lot of the frustration is coming from the fact that for now, the only way for crafters to level (and to use the recipes at the different levels) is through doing writs. It's not making mastercrafted gear we are necessarily focused on, it's just doing the most basic thing in any game like this: earning XP.

Here are some sample numbers from my sage for a single rush order writ (Crystal Blast and Feast), which was giving around 7% XP *with vitality*:

240 storm stalk
30 gnarled entwood
30 golden ember
45 nightmare cichlid
45 rock fern
45 greatmole meat
300 Celestial Incense - total cost/writ = 9p (writ reward is only 1p10g, for a net plat loss per writ).*

Multiply that by 15 writs per level (with some variation in materials from the other two recipes that are part of the writs), and that means for a single level *with vitality* (it's much worse without), sages currently burn through thousands of of materials, 22.5 stacks of fuel, and over 130 plat*. Now multiply those out by 10 levels, and you hopefully begin to see why we are intimidated by the number of materials being required.

We aren't just upset that we are losing access to some very useful tools. We are concerned about the sheer amount of time and mindless grinding it's going to take just to level, especially after such great strides have been made to make the game more accessible for adventuring compared to KA.

We know the amounts required and rewards for writs and still in flux, which is why we've been giving feedback in beta. With luck, these number won't be quite so overwhelming when PoP launches.

(* EDIT: Excellent news from the beta update notes: "Writ coin rewards should now match the coin spent on the fuels involved in the writ.")
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:57 PM   #94
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Yes, it works. That's where my numbers came from.
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Old 11-08-2017, 05:15 PM   #95
knine

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I haven’t checked my rush orders for provie but seems like just to make the items the numbers aren’t drastic, but you will still have to put in time harvesting and I’m already putting in time seeing the zones for faction questing and sig line quest. There was absolutely no need to not upgrade these unless....nvm.
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Old 11-08-2017, 05:17 PM   #96
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Scholar recipes are in an.. odd.. state right now. They're using way more materials and fuel then other combines.. and are using mostly food harvests to boot. How much or little they'll be 'fixed' to be more in line with other combines is anybody's guess at this point.
Hopefully the fuel amounts will either be brought in line with all other combines or rush orders will be set to correctly refund fuel costs.
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Old 11-08-2017, 05:24 PM   #97
Scrappyz

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Unless they want to drive crafters away from the game?

Congrats, mission accomplished
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:32 PM   #98
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So, putting all of the data together from this thread . . .

In general terms, one writ requires an entire stack of "something" . . . whatever the primary ingredient might be for that class. This writ yields approximately 7% XP, if the crafter has vitality. This writ takes approximately 5 minutes to complete.

In one hour of uncontested harvesting, a player brings back 2 to 4 stacks of a given primary material, and likely enough of the secondary materials to fill out the remaining recipes, assuming the player harvests what is there and doesn't cherry pick nodes for valuable rares. Let's just say that an uncontested harvester is bringing back 3 stacks per hour.

What do we get from that data? Assuming nothing changes between now and launch . . .


1. A player must harvest for an hour to do about 15 minutes of crafting.

2. To gain one crafting level, with Vitality, a player would need to harvest for almost 5 hours.

3. With Vitality, a player will need to harvest approximately 47 hours uncontested to level from 100 to 110.


That seems like it's pretty excessive to me on the harvesting side, especially since the expectation of uncontested harvesting cannot be supported.
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Old 11-08-2017, 07:12 PM   #99
Alenna

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^this.
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Old 11-08-2017, 07:31 PM   #100
Jhen Ro

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A week and a half of uncontested harvesting to get only one of my crafters up to 110.... Doesn't count the time to do the actual crafting.

How fast will people be 110 adventure when expac drops? Since they have the quest xp boosts, of course it's faster - but did we go from time gating the adventure side to time gating the crafting side?
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:11 PM   #101
Sejreia

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[IMG][IMG]
My stats before harvest grind.
Definitely loving the addition of nodes, though still needs more fishing I think. One hour and no competition harvesting at all; just finished. Started with zero mats in my bag. Level 100 with Mercenary.

[IMG]
Capped Everything but fishing upon completion. Just noticed, also, I don't see the sparklies on the rare hide.
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:44 PM   #102
yerbo

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Here's my numbers....there aren't even enough nodes in beta to put a small dent in the amount of mats we need with few people harvesting. With LOTS of people harvesting it will become completely untenable. Frankly, since the ball has been dropped on the TS quest timeline, you should reconsider the position on guild harvesters and pack ponies. Because having no timeline AND no harvesters is going to create a situation where the zone will need to have nodes pretty much everywhere.
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:02 PM   #103
Kander

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These numbers are a bit off.

A single rush order should require about 90 components combining primary and sub components. There are some recipes that are bugged that require more than that at the moment because the build components are off. This is another symptom of the issue that caused some recipes to use harvests for fuels, or incorrect primary components.

For fun, I started a harvesting run at 11:04 am PDT, finished at 11:25 am PDT, and I did not use any harvesting gear at all, except the compact sumac harvesting kit which reduces harvest time. Which means that if you use any of the large amount of Trade Skill rewards that are available , you will get more.

There were two other people harvesting in the area at the time. Currently, we have doubled the amount of harvest nodes since Saturday and they are on Independent Spawn Camps. The way independent spawn camps work, they force a minimum number of nodes to be up at a time, which means the more harvesters in the zone at other locations the better it is to harvest, since more nodes will spawn in the area you are in.

During this 21 minutes, I collected:
50 deadly mushrooms
310 etherium
357 gnarled entwood
143 golden ember
313 greatmole meat
238 plumwit hides
91 rock fern
481 storm stalks
2 cnidcara hides (rare)
1 darkstone (rare)
2 rubicite ore (rare)
3 storm end heartwood (rare)
1 stand of ether (rare)

If you are only looking for a single primary component, trading the extras to the other crafters for the ones you need seems viable. Sell them on the broker and buy the ones you need. Crafter’s are crafty.

We’ll be addressing the bugged resource requirements soon.
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:08 PM   #104
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What kind of harvesting stats went into this? (bountiful harvest, harvest speed, skill, etc)

Additional Note: Be sure to add fish nodes to the node popping. Even if the amounts are reduced, if the mats used are maintained, scholar recipes are going to use a huge amount of fish... especially since scholar recipes have never used fish (or other food harvests) in the past.
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:13 PM   #105
Senya

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This news is pretty disappointing. I mean, it wasn't as bad as never getting upgrades, but still...I'm not a happy crafter, and judging by this thread neither are a lot of others.
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:26 PM   #106
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Thanks for taking the time Kander. This above, to me, is the most encouraging part. If the requirements are bugged and too high, there may well be fewer issues than it currently seems. Just having someone tell us "Oh, that's a bug" is a big help. Thank you again.
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:28 PM   #107
Jhen Ro

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I find this an interesting idea...

Reminds me of the beaches on the Beginner Qeynos Isle.... One shiny up on Beach A, zero on Beach B. Harvest the shiny on Beach A, then Beach B now has a shiny pop. Harvest on B, pops on A? Does it work like that?

Or is it more like, Beach A will have 10 nodes - minimum of 5. When Down to 4, a node auto pops, so Beach A always has nodes?
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:48 PM   #108
Kander

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For fun, I started a harvesting run at 11:04 am PDT, finished at 11:25 am PDT, and I did not use any harvesting gear at all, except the compact sumac harvesting kit which reduces harvest time. Which means that if you use any of the large amount of Trade Skill rewards that are available , you will get more.
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:49 PM   #109
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You bet! We still got lots of time for tweaks.
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:49 PM   #110
Kander

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You got it. That is it!
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:00 PM   #111
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It also has 12% bountiful harvest
aITEM -2119634804 -326047816:Compact Sumac Harvesting Kit/a

Thanks for the info.
Do you remember the harvesting skills? Unless things have changed higher harvest skills give you a better chance to get higher quantities for each 'pull'.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:01 PM   #112
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Well Kander, I went out and harvested in harvest gear on unbuffed ADV toon for 45 mins (as this is what we will be at start) I have to say I got more rares than you, but being #6 on server for rares, not uncommon for me anyway. I did fish as well. I did not get half as much as you did in many areas of mats (I had to skirt a lot of the mobs because I was in harvest gear, which takes a long time to kill if not in ADV gear). I don't doubt your numbers at all. But do doubt the need to not update GH Harvesters (they don't get crap for 2 hours its a minimal amount but does help offset some)
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:23 PM   #113
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I just spent 30 mins harvesting and fishing. This is my results.

Stats= 770 all skills
bountiful harvest=42%
rare harvest chance=7%

122 greatmole meat
118 plumwit hides
327 stormstalk
165 golden ember
222 gnarled entwood
108 nightmare cichlid
88 rockfern
31 deadly mushroom
26 etherium
1 darkstone (rare)
10 strand of ether (rare)
6 storm ent heartwood
5 rubicite ore
5 cinideara hide

1 planar energy ???




What I've noticed is that most of your fungal growths are in the highlands, hardly any at all in the pakiat bluffs area. I found like 10 nodes of fish on bluffs side and down near gardens but on aetherscar they were pretty scarce. I'm not sure what's required of everyone's Tradeskillers for writs and what not, but I'm sure this will not get you a level in tradeskilling, let alone probably more than a few writs themselves. Rares aren't horribly rare which will help keep cost down at least. Spread out more nodes to the pakiat bluffs and more fish on the aetherscar side. The need for pack ponies and harvesters are still there as they can supplement not having go harvesting for one day. Again this was 30 mins of nothing but harvesting. No time to quest, no time to run zones with fellow guild mates, only harvesting.

What is the planar energy for????
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:34 PM   #114
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I also sent out the guild harvesters for level 30-39 stuff as I was working on filling everything back up and this is the results I got after two hours, mind you no one else can send them back out until they return.


14 cucumber
3 everfrost beans
19 green tea leaf
18 wild apple
76 severed briarwood
76 tussah root
9 glimmering material
12 bear meat
10 griffon meat
56 murkwater carp
36 sharkfin
59 etched leather pelt
61 feyiron cluster
34 opaline
59 supple loam
42 velium cluster



This is just to supplement crafters. If there are 5 short here or there, boom they have it and don't have to run back out and look for the nodes, harvest and then call home to finish combine. I'll do pack pony as well and see what I get for it.
I had already sent him for level 100 stuff. Again only once every two hours and this is what he had gotten me.

31 fruiting sporangium
8 fruticose lichen
58 malduran lumber
6 mycelial tendrils
82 thalumbral root
10 wild tempeh
10 thaumic material
83 abyssal pelt
76 umbral trout
73 bornite nodule
62 splitiron ore
67 umbrite

IF people have more than one toon with the pony, then they put in the hardwork. Lets say they have 5 toons with pony, then average they will get is maybe 500 max of one item and they can only do every 2 hours. During that 2 hours they can be tradeskilling or out working on their adventure line. That's how I've always done it and maintained both adventurer and crafter. Numbers show there is no need to not put these in the game. These again are supplemental and something people put in time to obtain.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:52 PM   #115
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This is good news...thank you, Kander. As you may have seen a bit higher up in this thread, my sage was taking literally hundreds of components and fuels per writ, thousands per level, so the totals required to gain even a single level were utterly overwhelming.

Getting confirmation that these values are not intended helps make it a little less daunting. Many thanks for the reassurance and communication.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:59 PM   #116
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Harvesting pass at 2:25 - 2:45 pm pst
Harvesting stats: 7% rare harvest chance, 15% bountiful harvest, 550 harvesting skills (all from AA/prestige)

2 cnidcara hide
2 darkstone
67 deadly mushroom
352 etherium
26 gnarled entwood
90 golden ember
72 greatmole meat
1 matron's heart
6 nightmare cichlid
135 plumewit hide
125 rock fern
2 rubicite ore
319 storm stalk
1199 total

I'm using a lvl 100 (adventure and TS) toon so the harvesting stats will be that of most crafters. The adeventure level means I don't have to dodge mobs

That's about the same amount it took the same toon to get 70 min before. A definite improvement

I would suggest looking at the fish nodes. They are much sparser and have been much stingier on the return per pull.
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Old 11-08-2017, 11:02 PM   #117
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Now take into consideration fighting over nodes Kander, you went and harvested with little to no competition Wink
Also I run with most of the bells and whistles while harvesting and it is still disappointing that some nodes just don't want to give more than 2 items per draw Tongue
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Old 11-08-2017, 11:19 PM   #118
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Old 11-08-2017, 11:31 PM   #119
Alenna

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Kander, you should also take into consideration that just plain harvesting gives no xp at all. something the Adventurers do not have to deal with when they are grinding for their levels. What if the Adventurers were told they had to do hours of a non xp gaining action before they could grind the mobs for their xp gain they would rightfully be up in arms about it wouldn't they.
please reconsider the pack pony and guild harvesters. Do not force the crafters do something that does not gain them tradeskill xp when you are not doign the same to the Adventurers. and no I don't not want you to do to the adventurers what you are doing the crafters here.I'';m saying treat the Crafters like you are treating the Adventurers. let us keep the tools we have had to help us grind.
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Old 11-08-2017, 11:43 PM   #120
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For what it's worth, they've actually greatly minimized the amount of XP adventurers get from killing overland mobs; the main way to get adventure XP now is through quest completion. They have essentially taken away one way to get reliable adventure XP (killing mobs) and focused instead on big bursts of XP by doing quests.

However, as you pointed out, the adventurers can jump straight in to PoP and start gaining XP from the start, while tradeskillers will have to spend chunks of time harvesting before we can even begin. It would be like having adventurers go and gather their ammo from contested nodes before they could begin leveling. Wink
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