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Old 05-15-2007, 10:52 AM   #1
bubspeed 2

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Totally ignorant here with lore and history of EQ2.  I haven't played in about 5 months and I apoligies in advance for this question. Seeing that the expansions of late seem to be following (roughly) the early expansions of EQ1, is there any chance of seeing a PoP type expansion in the coming years...? Please be gentle...
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Old 05-15-2007, 11:11 AM   #2
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I really hope not. IMO PoP was the beginning of the end for EQ1 for numerous reasons. Just one example: PoK was so convenient that all the other cities other than the Bazaar became ghost towns (even more then they already were after SoL came out and everyone moved to the Luclin).

As far as history and lore goes, it was the fact that we mortals began invading the realms of the gods that eventually led to The Shattering in the first place. The gods tried to destroy us, and then turned their backs on us for 500 years because we had defiled and desecrated the different planes of existance where they ruled.

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Old 05-15-2007, 11:11 AM   #3
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Not anytime soon. SMILEY

Seriously Eq2 lore is still discovering the lost places of the planet itself, i doubt they will be going to the planes anytime in the near future.  It took eq2 3 expansions to get to the first eq1 expansion, so at that rate perhaps they will hit the planes in 9 expansions. SMILEY

Seriously i don't think they will ever do a PoP type expansion but i never thought they would do Epic weapons either so who knows.

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Old 05-15-2007, 11:38 AM   #4
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I would have to admit that a PoP expansion would work if SoE could somehow intertwine the various cites together with the Portal of Knowledge better then just using books....  Or possibly get rid of the PoK and figure out a way to position entrances to the planes from various existing zones. I dunno.  Just bored at work and daydreaming again... Kunark was not my favorite expansion since I always seemed to us Qeynos as a starting city.  So I am already jumping past this next expansion!   Actually SoE did a wonderful job with the current expansion and I never spent time in those zones either.  I am sure the Kunark expansion would be great, but other then Kurns Tower and a little time in the City of [ich kann mich gerade nicht beherrschen], I never ventured to far into those areas... And how the heck did I speak German?
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Old 05-15-2007, 12:05 PM   #5
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Occam wrote:

I really hope not. IMO PoP was the beginning of the end for EQ1 

Yeah you're probably right...because after the release of Planes of Power SOE only released such great expansions like Legacy of Ykesha, Lost Dungeons of Norrath, Gates of Discord, Omens of War, Dragons of Norrath, Depths of Darkhollow, Prophecy of Ro, Serpent's Spine, The Buried Sea...and oh....Secrets of Faydwer due out this November.

So yeah I can see how that expansion killed that game. You're absolutely right.

/sarcasm off

P.S. Just because some one stops playing a game does not mean others aren't.

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Old 05-15-2007, 12:27 PM   #6
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Vukota wrote:

P.S. Just because some one stops playing a game does not mean others aren't.

Just because people are playing a game doesn't mean the game is still worth playing SMILEY
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Old 05-16-2007, 02:52 PM   #7
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I think a couple of hundred thousand people might disagree with you.
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Old 05-16-2007, 03:39 PM   #8
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Occam wrote:
As far as history and lore goes, it was the fact that we mortals began invading the realms of the gods that eventually led to The Shattering in the first place. The gods tried to destroy us, and then turned their backs on us for 500 years because we had defiled and desecrated the different planes of existance where they ruled.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean we won't do it again if we can find a way into the planes again. SMILEY 

I like the idea previously mentioned in this thread - that if the planes do return, that the Plane of Knowledge does *not* return, but the entrances to the planes are put into existing zones.  PoK did away with reasons for hanging out in city zones (or the Nexus or EC tunnel)...it would be neat to have reasons *to* hang out in some areas in EQ2.

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Old 05-16-2007, 05:42 PM   #9
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Vukota wrote:
I think a couple of hundred thousand people might disagree with you.

Compared to the how many who have quit over the years? SMILEY

In seriousness, I'm sure many people still love the game, but many other people (many of which play EQ2) don't like the course that game took.  That's why we play this game, not that one.

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Old 05-16-2007, 05:54 PM   #10
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I loved eq1 alot of the reason I dont play it any more was because I would be online for horus with my LFG tag up but couldnt get groups. I was max level at the time and in a family guild that wasnt going anywhere. So i quit and played starwars galexys for a while while i waited for eq2. (about half to 3/4ths of a year) Now the cap is raised I might be able to find groups and stuff agian. But I love eq2 and love the new graphics and the people ive met and much of the new lore and rediscovering lost places and seeing how places look in eq2. I also like the questing system in eq2 better clicking bubbles rather then haveing to figure out what the hell to type to an NPC. I may pick up the latest eq1 all in one pack and get station access just to see how eq1 is cuz I havent played it since GoD. ....

But on to the subject of thread I'd Love to see a Planes of Power expantion It came out several months after i started playing so i was too low to use anything cept PoK. And to me the expantion was worth every penny just for PoK it made travel easy and was able to buy spells and be trained by my tainer in the zone. I loved it. I hurt some of the Druid and Wizard cuz ports wernt as high indemand but I would still use ports here and there. The only thing is I dont want Planes of Power in eq2 untill we rediscover all the land that we had before POP in eq1. We need Odus, Velious, the rest of Antoincia and hopefully parts of Luclin before we get PoP.

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Old 05-16-2007, 08:13 PM   #11
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A PoP expansion in EQ2 would go against the major premise of the game's backstory.

The gods abandoned Norrath(and destroyed Luclin) because of the actions in the PoP expansion.  Allowing mortals back into their realms to challenge them would go against their previous lesson learned.

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Old 05-16-2007, 09:27 PM   #12
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LordPazuzu wrote:

A PoP expansion in EQ2 would go against the major premise of the game's backstory.

The gods abandoned Norrath(and destroyed Luclin) because of the actions in the PoP expansion.  Allowing mortals back into their realms to challenge them would go against their previous lesson learned.

It would just be a cycle...then we would need EQ3!!!
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Old 05-17-2007, 01:42 AM   #13
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Vukota wrote:
Occam wrote:

I really hope not. IMO PoP was the beginning of the end for EQ1 

Yeah you're probably right...because after the release of Planes of Power SOE only released such great expansions like Legacy of Ykesha, Lost Dungeons of Norrath, Gates of Discord, Omens of War, Dragons of Norrath, Depths of Darkhollow, Prophecy of Ro, Serpent's Spine, The Buried Sea...and oh....Secrets of Faydwer due out this November.

So yeah I can see how that expansion killed that game. You're absolutely right.

/sarcasm off

P.S. Just because some one stops playing a game does not mean others aren't.

SOE used to publish their subscriber numbers for all to see. Awhile ago I found where someone had kept track of how many subscribers EQ1 had at any given time and created a timeline of expansions superimposed over a graph chart of subscriber numbers. (I'll link it once I find it again). It shows very clearly the growth of the game from the day it went public (I played from early beta on), and you could see how the population numbers would spike after each expansion, then taper off somewhat at a higher level. That is, up until PoP. Between the time PoP and the following expansion were released, we saw a decent sized spike, then shortly afterwards an enormous drop off in subscriber numbers for the first time ever in the history of the game. Shortly after this, SOE stopped publishing their numbers and we started seeing server merger after server merger. And by the way, I did not stop playing at that time. I stayed through several more expansions before I finally quit.

You're welcome to be as sarcastic as you want, but these numbers came directly from SOE until they realized that it was starting to look like rats fleeing a sinking ship, which only tends to exacerbate the problem. You might also notice that nowhere did I say that the subsequent expansions sucked. The quality of those expansions is irrelevant to the discussion though in light of the fact that server populations in EQ1 have never been what they were prior to PoP.

PoP took the game in a direction whereby it was no longer attractive to new players, and without new blood infusing life into the community, you've got a situation where the pace of the outgoing players vastly outpaces that of the incomming. So yes, because PoP was the expansion that precipitated the decline of the community, it was the beginning of the end.

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Old 05-17-2007, 11:33 AM   #14
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Vukota wrote:
I think a couple of hundred thousand people might disagree with you.
i think that's putting words in peoples mouth. I personally would love to see it.
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:41 PM   #15
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hmm everyone seems to title PoP as "the beginning of the end" for EQLive, but really if you think about it the Kael/Thurg/SS armor quests and Luclin were the beginning of the end, gear started boosting stats to the point that old gear was useless, and old zones that were designed for players with old gear became pointless...the moment they allowed the older zones to die and stopped focusing on bringing in new people and started focusing on high end raiders the game started to die... PoP was a blast imo, i personally enjoyed the challenge of having to work my way through tiers to get to harder more rewarding zones...

IF they did bring back PoP (which i dont see the gods willingly allowing) they would have to be very careful about it, the diety quests would all become worthless if everyone started slaughtering avatars again, and then where would we be? EQ3 =D because the gods would do the exact same thing they did before...theres a reason they are called GODS, mortals are supposed to worship them, not [Removed for Content] them off...greed and hunger for power always seem to be the downfall of norathians... SMILEY

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Old 05-23-2007, 10:50 PM   #16
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[email protected] wrote:
Occam wrote:
As far as history and lore goes, it was the fact that we mortals began invading the realms of the gods that eventually led to The Shattering in the first place. The gods tried to destroy us, and then turned their backs on us for 500 years because we had defiled and desecrated the different planes of existance where they ruled.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean we won't do it again if we can find a way into the planes again. SMILEY 

I like the idea previously mentioned in this thread - that if the planes do return, that the Plane of Knowledge does *not* return, but the entrances to the planes are put into existing zones.  PoK did away with reasons for hanging out in city zones (or the Nexus or EC tunnel)...it would be neat to have reasons *to* hang out in some areas in EQ2.

The best way to combat the dwindling city life is to put all the entrances to the high planes in the existing cities. then you'll get flocks of people directly in those cities. And to go one further if they add the guild halls like they originally did in EQ 1, inside existing cities as well instead of PoK, that would also bring about city life once again. Involving the existing cities more for higher lvl players would make things much, much more interesting I think. those low lvl people would see more of the higher lvl players instead of having to grind to get to a lvl where they might get a glimpse of them running through a low lvl zone.
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Old 05-23-2007, 11:59 PM   #17
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Sure, I'd go for it....IF........

It was casual friendly,

Lore was not designated to certain playstyles, but accessible to all raiders, solo, groupers alike equally. (Choice of zone difficulty for your person/group/raid) with appropriate rewards....but with same lore.

Nothing added that would ruin the current 'feel' of the game for the worse. (Please no PoK)

Then yeah, I would be ok with PoP. But if it were all raid, lore hidden from everyone else and included the Plane of Knowlege lazy man's zone...then no way would I be interested.

Perhaps they could put a different twist on it. Instead of KILLING the Gods...maybe you are WORKING for them.

Oooo I kinda like that idea.

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Old 05-24-2007, 03:49 AM   #18
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Occam wrote:

I really hope not. IMO PoP was the beginning of the end for EQ1 for numerous reasons. Just one example: PoK was so convenient that all the other cities other than the Bazaar became ghost towns (even more then they already were after SoL came out and everyone moved to the Luclin).

As far as history and lore goes, it was the fact that we mortals began invading the realms of the gods that eventually led to The Shattering in the first place. The gods tried to destroy us, and then turned their backs on us for 500 years because we had defiled and desecrated the different planes of existance where they ruled.

Well with the way it's going Velious should be next, and then possibly a second moon or something to in place of Luclin.

 But as for PoP lore, if you followed the story line through all the flagging and to the end of Plane of Time and the final kill you would know that Druzzil Ro re-set everything as if nothing, none of the "mortals invading the homes of the gods" ever happened.

So in essence PoP was not what lead to the shattering it was something after that Druzzil Ro didn't interfer with that lead to it.  Which would probably be why EQlore is still growing, EQ2 didn't say 500 years after EQ1 Planes of Power, EQ1 is going on expansion number 14 now....hell EQ2's timeline it could be dated to start well after EQ1 expansion 20 lore.

 And personally I'd be pretty irrate with the gods too if they destoryed the world and then came back to try and sway us back to them, and would seek a way to get back at them like my ancestors from 500 years ago did.

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Old 05-24-2007, 04:59 AM   #19
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As when I was in EQ1, I'd love going to the plane of my godess Tunare. In EQ1 that was some sad, as there was few quests in the plane (I quit EQ1 just after having Luclin, so I dont know how it was in the PoP extension), and I felt sad when some of my guildies praying Tunare went to rampage the zone and loot Tunare's body. Yep, I want the planes back, but not to do them just as targets for raids. Make the gods real ones: Make them lvl250^^^Epic toons, targetable for the raiders tries SMILEY. Ok for the raids on planes (destroying the faction with the god), not for the god killings (Let it this for D&D). Make the planes some HeadQuarters for influence, allowing only those Allies with the god faction: Quests leading everywhere in Norrath to spread the good word. Quests for crafters to do artefact things as reward for the worshippers. Faction with gods is missing. Let me, Tunare worshipper, have some faction with the coming Karana, or the Erollissi's. Let the planes be optionnals, as I only care going at my goddess one, and don't care raiding others.
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Old 05-24-2007, 12:32 PM   #20
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I'm mixed on a POP for EQ2.  One one hand, I really did enjoy it.  I was just starting to raid and I enjoyed the non raid content's challenges.  On the other hand, it really started the path where raiders and non-raiders were really just playing completely different games due to gear being so much better than what was available to everyone else and pretty big access restrictions to the zones.  That and The port stones in Tranquility. Fortunately, I think there is so much other content they can do before even thinking about anything similar to POP.  After Kunark there is Velious, Odus, and any of the various continents never explored under EQ1.  Honestly, I think EQ2 should just stick to Norrath for as long as they can.  They don't need planes, moons, or alternate dimension zones like they eventually did in EQ.  Even EQ learned to go back to its roots in the past few expansions.
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Old 05-24-2007, 05:55 PM   #21
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Bakinleaf wrote:

So in essence PoP was not what lead to the shattering it was something after that Druzzil Ro didn't interfer with that lead to it.  Which would probably be why EQlore is still growing, EQ2 didn't say 500 years after EQ1 Planes of Power, EQ1 is going on expansion number 14 now....hell EQ2's timeline it could be dated to start well after EQ1 expansion 20 lore.

EQ2 lore is a direct sequal to the PoP expansion.  Afterwards the timelines diverge creating "parallel universes".  SOE did it this way so the EQ1 team could develope continuing expansions independently of the EQ2 team.
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Old 05-24-2007, 05:56 PM   #22
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I wouldnt mind Seeing Plans of Power in eq2. BUT I wouldnt wana see it befor we have all of EQ1's land masses back. The rest of antonica, Velious, Odus and maybe another cotenatant beyond faydwer or Kunark a contenant that is Totaly new to the Eq universe maybe a landmass that could be as big as atonica would have been if it wasnt borken up. Because thats what I want to see personlay MASSIVE outdoor areas lots of traveling to get from point a to b to feel like i'm in a massive world not in a little chain of islands that is what antonica is now. So yeah PoP eventualy not any time soon because I want to see the rest of the old landmasses and I want to see some new ones. I hope the Shissar are out there some where i'd love to see and kill some of them.
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Old 05-24-2007, 07:19 PM   #23
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I haven't read every reply so excuse me if this has already been suggested, but the only reason I think PoP would work would be if they released diety zones throughout norrath, sort of like portals. Have them distributed in various old world zones, just like how the door of fear is in the feerrott. That would get rid of the whole PoK takeover as well as give good reasons for visiting old world zones, even if it's just passing through. Honestly, though, I don't see a PoP expansion coming anytime soon, espescially since they are releasing expansions once a year now instead of two a year. Perhaps, though, we'll start seeing single diety zones, like the plane of fear, released in LU's (didn't they say this was coming sometime or another?), or maybe an adventure pack. Anyway, I would much rather see stuff like the next expansion, kunark, and then velious and odus, and maybe even a lunar expansion for the other moon, since the nexus was destroyed and we can't visit that one anymore. There's just so much room for eq2 to grow before they start delving into the planes again, which makes me think that IF we see a PoP expansion, it won't be for several years.
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Old 05-25-2007, 06:30 PM   #24
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lilmohi wrote:

Not anytime soon. SMILEY

Seriously Eq2 lore is still discovering the lost places of the planet itself, i doubt they will be going to the planes anytime in the near future.  It took eq2 3 expansions to get to the first eq1 expansion, so at that rate perhaps they will hit the planes in 9 expansions. SMILEY

Seriously i don't think they will ever do a PoP type expansion but i never thought they would do Epic weapons either so who knows.

4, but who's counting. 
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Old 05-25-2007, 06:42 PM   #25
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I think what EQ failed on was making Norrath smaller than it could have been...they are still extending Norrath now with The Buried Sea etc. but in EQ they could have added 10-15 continents and it could have been a planet as big as Jupiter.
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Old 05-28-2007, 02:21 AM   #26
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bubspeed 2 wrote:
Totally ignorant here with lore and history of EQ2.  I haven't played in about 5 months and I apoligies in advance for this question. Seeing that the expansions of late seem to be following (roughly) the early expansions of EQ1, is there any chance of seeing a PoP type expansion in the coming years...? Please be gentle...
Dude who cares, it's still months away from the newest announced expansion. Give it a break, they have alot on the table. Besides, any discussion here about crap like this would simply be forgotten months later after Kunark, so let them concentrate on 1 expansion at a time. They for sure demograph and get info of what might work best and player feedback when they need it. Coming here asking what would be a good expansion coming up is irrelevant since the current expansion is focused on itself. To the response for POP expansion, I so doubt it, but maybe. The others here are saying the death of EQ1 was POP expansion, I think it might of been a combination of poor content adds within Luclin and POP that gradually declined player base and some decisions within those 2 parameters. POP required such a heavy draw for focused teamwork and to many players. If they released a POP type expansion in the future I doubt they would reinitiate any of the content of ideas that drowned EQ1, it would be different, and surely they would stay away from improperly disforming EQ2. They would like to see the game continue and be strong in every expansion coming, with many returning and new players. Kunark and the discussion of what it contains has these focuses. Future expansion may include some cool original content that might have even more people coming to play. I think the next biggest expansion after Kunark maybe Velious. After that they may make a original expansion, something never done before and not a clone of EQ1 older expansion content. Giving the DEV team a chance to work on some new stuff and add entirely new content that doesn't resemble that of the old EQ1.
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Old 05-29-2007, 02:33 AM   #27
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Vukota wrote:
Occam wrote:

I really hope not. IMO PoP was the beginning of the end for EQ1 

Yeah you're probably right...because after the release of Planes of Power SOE only released such great expansions like Legacy of Ykesha, Lost Dungeons of Norrath, Gates of Discord, Omens of War, Dragons of Norrath, Depths of Darkhollow, Prophecy of Ro, Serpent's Spine, The Buried Sea...and oh....Secrets of Faydwer due out this November.

So yeah I can see how that expansion killed that game. You're absolutely right.

/sarcasm off

P.S. Just because some one stops playing a game does not mean others aren't.

I'm sorry, did you seriously just include Legacy of Ykesha and Gates of Discord  in a list of "great" expansions?   Good lord...
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:20 AM   #28
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All I know is in original EQ1 PoP,  the keying process (which i never participated in) and the semi usefullness of some classes led to some people doing the keying over and over and over to help others through. Eventually the strain of it broke my small family guild up, and many of our members quit both the guild and the game. That is not what the game needs. Also I do not thinks the Gods in their own planes should be killable. Surely they have the power to teleport anyone annoying them out of their plane and to say 10,000 feet above the Commonlands? I'd say they should focus on making factions matter more, making each faction have its own benefits and drawbacks, make faction choices permanent (why should the giants forgive you and make you their hero after you killed 10,000 of them to become the dwarves hero? its absurd), but at the same time make a select few fairly easily reachable points where people can get together no matter what their faction and start an adventure from there.
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Old 05-29-2007, 10:27 AM   #29
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PoP really did it in for EQ1.  Whilst they produce many more expansions after that, it was never the same. The EQ2 Devs even knew this because EQ2 was based from that.

There were too many problems with PoP that many people here already listed. It killed off the Norrathian cities, everything became ghosttowns unless you were on Luclin, and Gods were being killed off like a lvl 4 mob. It was really bad!

Innoruuk is suppose to be feared as he is the god of hatred, but he kept getting slaughtered by adventurers.  It totally screwed up the Lore line for EQ

So, through any type of expansion out there but keep out the ones that involves us having direct contact with the gods. Hell, if we cannot talk to the prissy queen or the stuck up Overlord of Freeport, we shouldnt be able to lay a hand on a god.

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Old 05-29-2007, 01:27 PM   #30
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While everyone has a different appreciation, or lack of, for PoP, I'd be more inclined to believe that the reason EQ2 Lore has this split at that time would be more like PoP era was when they started working on developing the lore for EQ2 and needed a starting point.

True from a r/p standpoint, confronting Gods is peobably a very bad idea. Sad to say, people that are that serious about r/p that they will forsake content and loot for the sake of their r/p are a small minority.

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