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Old 03-15-2006, 06:20 AM   #61
Sokolov

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Fennir wrote:klepps fighters must really rock the hizzouse

Well, zerkers do own!  I still remember when the entire world was crying about the zerker nerfs during LU13 AND post-LU13 (yes, they got nerfed a couple more times after that).  And still zerkers are dps tanking machines!Anyway, I agree with what Tobias and others have said.  Klepp, you are a silly.
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Old 03-15-2006, 06:22 AM   #62
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I ain't sayign I'm proud of it and I know our wizzies are nowhere where they should be, but I am where I expect to be.( we are not a raiding guild and our raids are casual)
 
If you expect to be around 1k dps in raid, you are mistaken and will not get what you expect from SoE in the near future....
 
If the patch gives up 20% more damage ( and seeing where my pierce is 33% more dmg there will help)  that will put me around 720 dps which is what I would expect from using only bow and staying out of AEs range....( I take no risks, I pay for it a little)
 

Message Edited by Ail on 03-14-200605:22 PM

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Old 03-15-2006, 06:26 AM   #63
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USAFJeeper wrote:
Ail, I am sorry, but your proud of that DPS?  Trying not to be a real [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], but those are very low numbers all around.
low looking dps numbers on live before our DPS fixes hit?GOOD THING I DIDNT WASH THE SURPRISE PAINT OFF
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Old 03-15-2006, 06:30 AM   #64
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Seriously maybe we should just poll, what kinda of dps are you expecting to put ?

600 ? 800 ? 1k ? 1200 ?

Your expectations may have something to do with wether you will be happy or not....

Personally if I hit 800 I will be very happy ( the numbers I showed were against blue mobs and I know I would do lower against yellow epics but on the other hand I was using all T6 adept 3 and master 1, none of my t7 spells are adept 3 or masters yet and as a result they are not as good as the T6 ones, the same way I was not using t7 arrows..)

 

 

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Old 03-15-2006, 06:33 AM   #65
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With Focus Fire I've found timing other CA's during it helps also.  If you watch for the initial hit you can get off your 1 to 1.5 sec cast CA's during your auto bow cool down.  I always get off three auto attacks off and two CA's in between them.

Ail there's no need to waste money on Indium arrows.  They do the same damage as the reclaimed Adamantine arrows.  They are both designated as L50 ammo currently.  Unless you are talking about player made ammo.

I've only gotten one crit on Sniper so far and it was for around 9.6K.  Which is pretty nice considering there was no brigand debuffing the mob.  Brigand debuffed crits are going to be very nice.

 

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Old 03-15-2006, 06:34 AM   #66
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I got a 3k crit with devitalizing on a dispatched mob in palace the other day. =)
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Old 03-15-2006, 06:40 AM   #67
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With 4 AA points spent on the crit line, I see alot of big numbers like that. This weekend I was able to pull off a nice 10K crit hit with the snipers line. Twas a very nice sight that was. And once I get my 8 put into speeding up my casting timers, Im going back to max that crit line. Gawd my tanks are gonna hate me.

 

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Old 03-15-2006, 06:44 AM   #68
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hehe that was my plan... started saving points for Poise...but i couldn't do it... they made their way into maxing crit as soon as I had 2 saved, lolpoise will get it's day...... in 10 points
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Old 03-15-2006, 07:08 AM   #69
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OK little Mary Sunshine, I mean Fennir. Very cute.   You can go ahead and suck at the teat of SOE as much as you want but the fact is I went from averaging 700-900 DPS to averaging 300-450 and key mashing my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] off.  DO I need to be be a 1200?   NO.  But I need to at least not be embarassed by healer classes sometimes. 
 
In case you missed an earlier post I signed up to be a bow based class not an assassin.  If I want to melee, I would have made an assassin.  I did not sit down and cry when the nerf hit and beat my chest in agony, I did my best with what I had as most of us here did.  But to be so naive as to not get the idea the changes are not really gonna make us anything more than an outdoor assassin with weaker skills.  At least our auto attack will be 33% more.  Take off the rose colored glasses.
 
 
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Old 03-15-2006, 07:23 AM   #70
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USAFJeeper wrote:
OK little Mary Sunshine, I mean Fennir. Very cute.   You can go ahead and suck at the teat of SOE as much as you want but the fact is I went from averaging 700-900 DPS to averaging 300-450 and key mashing my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] off.  DO I need to be be a 1200?   NO.  But I need to at least not be embarassed by healer classes sometimes. 
 
In case you missed an earlier post I signed up to be a bow based class not an assassin.  If I want to melee, I would have made an assassin.  I did not sit down and cry when the nerf hit and beat my chest in agony, I did my best with what I had as most of us here did.  But to be so naive as to not get the idea the changes are not really gonna make us anything more than an outdoor assassin with weaker skills.  At least our auto attack will be 33% more.  Take off the rose colored glasses.
 
 

You may want to review the post which contained the parses.  Healers aren't outdamaging Rangers, in fact, Rangers seem to be doing okay still despite not being fixed yet.  But hey, if you want to be fixated on some number that is higher than that parse regardless how other classes parsed in the same raid, be my guest!
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Old 03-15-2006, 07:32 AM   #71
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USAFJeeper wrote:
OK little Mary Sunshine, I mean Fennir. Very cute.   You can go ahead and suck at the teat of SOE as much as you want but the fact is I went from averaging 700-900 DPS to averaging 300-450 and key mashing my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] off.  DO I need to be be a 1200?   NO.  But I need to at least not be embarassed by healer classes sometimes. 
 

 

Hey, here's an idea... rather than patronise those Rangers that are managing to put out more dps than you, how about you try and learn why they're managing to be better Rangers than yourself?

The parse Ail provided was not rose coloured. Whether by your measure the numbers were low or not does not matter. What matters is that her parse relative to her peers. Why not ask her why she is managing to do what you are failing to do?

This whole issue absolutely must be causing the Assassins deja vú as their forum went through about a month of intense argument over the exact same issue. Half screaming that Assassins sucked and the other half screaming they were doing fine and were only being beaten by Rangers (then) on raids.... It took a month of parse after parse with the "underdogs" still screaming we suck! regardless of what was presented to them... if took about a month for the Assassin community to finally realise a proportion of Assassins being played outright suck for a combination of reasons, but that didn't mean the class sucked.

You don't really notice the Rogues that outright suck because if they don't come in the top bracket it doesn't catch your attention. If a Monk beats a Rogue nobody screams OMG! a Monk beat a Brigand! A Tank beat a Rogue! It doesn't even get noticed. Those Rogues that suck at producing damage do so without anybody pausing to think that their class is broken... Some Rogues do well on a parse, others do really badly.

Go to the Assassin forum and flip back a few pages and you'll find the threads in question. They're all multipage threads, and with obvious titles like "why we suck".

Wait until the proposed fix is in, and then compare a broad range of Ranger parse with Assassins. Don't take the best of the Assassins and the worst of Rangers, take the best of Assassins and the best of the Rangers and figure that those at the bottom simply suck.

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Old 03-15-2006, 08:03 AM   #72
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While I dont have the hubris to suggest that I am the best ranger out there, I know my class.  I compare apples to apples.  I compare myself angainst other well geared and competent toons.  I know that I am lacking in my peer group whereas before I was not, albeit a lil overpowered with the proc frequency as has been noted on these boards ad nauseum.
 
I parse constantly and can tell you that even those of us who are fairly competent are indeed being outDPSed by some unusual classes.  Now if you can stop your condescension and read what I wrote you may see that I dont want to be an assassin doing assassin work.  they should be at my level but in close.  I am a ranger I do RANGed DPS.  Improving my CAs for melee is not the answer.
 
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Old 03-15-2006, 08:08 AM   #73
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USAFJeeper wrote:Ail, I am sorry, but your proud of that DPS?  Trying not to be a real [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], but those are very low numbers all around.
Proof he can't read parses.

USAFJeeper wrote:
While I dont have the hubris to suggest that I am the best ranger out there, I know my class.  I compare apples to apples.  I compare myself angainst other well geared and competent toons.  I know that I am lacking in my peer group whereas before I was not, albeit a lil overpowered with the proc frequency as has been noted on these boards ad nauseum.
 
I parse constantly and can tell you that even those of us who are fairly competent are indeed being outDPSed by some unusual classes.  Now if you can stop your condescension and read what I wrote you may see that I dont want to be an assassin doing assassin work.  they should be at my level but in close.  I am a ranger I do RANGed DPS.  Improving my CAs for melee is not the answer.
 
Thanks for your patronage.

So the class should be whatever you think it should be?  Go make your own game.  And for the record, the word ranger doesn't have its origin in "ranged combat," it has to do with knowledge of the land.

Message Edited by Sokolov on 03-14-200607:12 PM

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Old 03-15-2006, 08:10 AM   #74
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Sokolov wrote:

You may want to review the post which contained the parses.  Healers aren't outdamaging Rangers, in fact, Rangers seem to be doing okay (In groups and raids) still despite not being fixed yet.  But hey, if you want to be fixated on some number that is higher than that parse regardless how other classes parsed in the same raid, be my guest!


Our solo play is still jacked up big time.  Crossing my fingures the changes in LU21 will help here.  But we'll have to wait and see how it goes.  I'd have prefered they gave us a 12 sec breakable root over the 4 sec unbreakable one.  But I'll take what I can get and see what I can do with it.

 

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Old 03-15-2006, 08:11 AM   #75
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USAFJeeper wrote:
 Improving my CAs for melee is not the answer.

SMILEYWhat is miracle arrow?  They're doubling the damage on it.  That's not a bow shot?  Confounding arrow and snaring shot?  They're upping those too.Focus Fire giving 48% increased chance to crit isn't increasing ranged dps?Increasing bow autoattack all-around by 30% isn't increasing ranged dps?Do you even have a clue?
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Old 03-15-2006, 08:34 AM   #76
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Ail wrote:

Seriously maybe we should just poll, what kinda of dps are you expecting to put ?

600 ? 800 ? 1k ? 1200 ?

Your expectations may have something to do with wether you will be happy or not....

Personally if I hit 800 I will be very happy ( the numbers I showed were against blue mobs and I know I would do lower against yellow epics but on the other hand I was using all T6 adept 3 and master 1, none of my t7 spells are adept 3 or masters yet and as a result they are not as good as the T6 ones, the same way I was not using t7 arrows..)


800 would also make me very happy.  That may change if I ever get to level 70.  What would really make me happy is if SOE saw fit to change the bounty AA.  What if, instead of recieving a few silver, we could make a wizzy, on a random basis,  just drop dead.  Now that's what I call a bounty!  You could make a macro...   /shout Dead Wizzy Walking... /useability bounty.:smileytongue:
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Old 03-15-2006, 08:47 AM   #77
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Ok apparently we are not communicating here at all so I tell you what, you go ahead and enjoy the game, I wont bother you with my honest look at a class I like and have played since day 1.
 
I got my clue in my box set, its sitting in my room now.  Enjoy your EQ2 day.
 
 
 
 
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Old 03-15-2006, 08:52 AM   #78
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USAFJeeper wrote:
 I am a ranger I do RANGed DPS.  Improving my CAs for melee is not the answer.
 
Thanks for your patronage.

RANGed isn't actually where the term Ranger comes from mate.... "The act of wandering or roaming over a large area. "

You even suck at patronising people =/

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Old 03-15-2006, 08:55 AM   #79
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Hey Carnagh, get with your buddy Fen there and share the clue.  in MMOs ranged attacks mean from a distance.  Nice chatting with you guys but I have had about all the sunshine blown up my skirt I can handle in one day.
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Old 03-15-2006, 09:15 AM   #80
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USAFJeeper wrote:
Ok apparently we are not communicating here at all so I tell you what, you go ahead and enjoy the game, I wont bother you with my honest look at a class I like and have played since day 1.
 
I got my clue in my box set, its sitting in my room now.  Enjoy your EQ2 day. 

Your honest look at a class?You're pretending all they're doing to fix us is adjust a few melee CAs.  How is that honest?Well, why don't we be honest.  You're leaving the discussion because you can't make a coherent point and are afraid of those made by others.  Everyone who disagrees with your assessment is sucking the collective SOE teat, as far as you're concerned.Cya.
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Old 03-15-2006, 09:47 AM   #81
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Crychtonn wrote:

With Focus Fire I've found timing other CA's during it helps also.  If you watch for the initial hit you can get off your 1 to 1.5 sec cast CA's during your auto bow cool down.  I always get off three auto attacks off and two CA's in between them.

Ail there's no need to waste money on Indium arrows.  They do the same damage as the reclaimed Adamantine arrows.  They are both designated as L50 ammo currently.  Unless you are talking about player made ammo.

I've only gotten one crit on Sniper so far and it was for around 9.6K.  Which is pretty nice considering there was no brigand debuffing the mob.  Brigand debuffed crits are going to be very nice.

 


Reclaimed adamantine were my t6 arrows, not indium SMILEY

 

And as I pointed out my parse were doing RANGED ONLY damage, no melee or melee CA was involved...

And there was no brigand debuffing in that raid either..

Message Edited by Ail on 03-14-200608:50 PM

Message Edited by Ail on 03-14-200611:49 PM

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Old 03-15-2006, 11:14 AM   #82
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[Removed for Content], griefer cheerleaders.I think I've seen it all now.
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:10 PM   #83
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Shadeslay wrote:[Removed for Content], griefer cheerleaders.I think I've seen it all now.

Because at some point you're going to have to deal with groups refusing to have you with the line "sorry, Rangers suck".
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:47 PM   #84
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 We have to wait for LU21 to see the effect on our damage.But there is one thing that makes me angry. SOE said the would up the damage rating of bows to be on par with 2H weapons of the same quality. But only the low level and low damage rating bows got an upgrade on test. Grizzfazzels bow is still at 80.8 damage rating while the 2H quest rewards are 91,2. The best fabled bow still has a damage rating of 98 while other 2H weapons have 103+. Even 1H weapons have ratings of 84+. The differences between bows and 2H weapons are not that big anymore but bows are still inferior.
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Old 03-15-2006, 09:58 PM   #85
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Carnagh wrote:

Shadeslay wrote:[Removed for Content], griefer cheerleaders.I think I've seen it all now.

Because at some point you're going to have to deal with groups refusing to have you with the line "sorry, Rangers suck".

Not seeing this at all, sorry.

Max amount of time I have had LFG flag up was 5 minutes...

So if you can't get a group, it's prolly more a personally issues than a class issue ( personally I don't group people that complain about their class every 5 min on group chat...)

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Old 03-16-2006, 01:22 AM   #86
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Here's a parse of my own.  It's about 50 minutes of fighting in HoF.  I removed all broken encounters.  The only person who was AFK for any of the fights was me, for two of them.We only had 1 healer so we were mezzing, which hurt the warlock, but we didn't fight very many big groups anyways.
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Old 03-16-2006, 01:53 AM   #87
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Your parse matchs what I find.

I parse around 400 usually but raiding increases dps a lot due to debuffs...

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Old 03-16-2006, 01:56 AM   #88
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Ail wrote:

Carnagh wrote:

Shadeslay wrote:[Removed for Content], griefer cheerleaders.I think I've seen it all now.

Because at some point you're going to have to deal with groups refusing to have you with the line "sorry, Rangers suck".

Not seeing this at all, sorry.

Max amount of time I have had LFG flag up was 5 minutes...

So if you can't get a group, it's prolly more a personally issues than a class issue ( personally I don't group people that complain about their class every 5 min on group chat...)


I'm not suggesting it is happening (most players aren't even aware of any Ranger issues currently), I'm saying have a "Rangers suck" campaign run for another month and then see what happens... I watched it happen in EQ1.
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Old 03-16-2006, 02:01 AM   #89
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Carnagh wrote:

Ail wrote:

Carnagh wrote:

Shadeslay wrote:[Removed for Content], griefer cheerleaders.I think I've seen it all now.

Because at some point you're going to have to deal with groups refusing to have you with the line "sorry, Rangers suck".

Not seeing this at all, sorry.

Max amount of time I have had LFG flag up was 5 minutes...

So if you can't get a group, it's prolly more a personally issues than a class issue ( personally I don't group people that complain about their class every 5 min on group chat...)


I'm not suggesting it is happening (most players aren't even aware of any Ranger issues currently), I'm saying have a "Rangers suck" campaign run for another month and then see what happens... I watched it happen in EQ1.

The only people advocating ranger suck now are rangers ( it's like some of us are trying to spread a message to the rest of the community that we are worthless when the data gathered does not demonstrate it, YES we took a big hit, but we are still up there ....)

I have been occasionally outdpsed in a group by another player. But in the majority of the groups I am the top dps and people DO notice a difference when I join the group.

 

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Old 03-16-2006, 09:24 AM   #90
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Ail wrote:

Carnagh wrote:

Ail wrote:

Carnagh wrote:

Shadeslay wrote:[Removed for Content], griefer cheerleaders.I think I've seen it all now.

Because at some point you're going to have to deal with groups refusing to have you with the line "sorry, Rangers suck".

Not seeing this at all, sorry.

Max amount of time I have had LFG flag up was 5 minutes...

So if you can't get a group, it's prolly more a personally issues than a class issue ( personally I don't group people that complain about their class every 5 min on group chat...)


I'm not suggesting it is happening (most players aren't even aware of any Ranger issues currently), I'm saying have a "Rangers suck" campaign run for another month and then see what happens... I watched it happen in EQ1.

The only people advocating ranger suck now are rangers ( it's like some of us are trying to spread a message to the rest of the community that we are worthless when the data gathered does not demonstrate it, YES we took a big hit, but we are still up there ....)

I have been occasionally outdpsed in a group by another player. But in the majority of the groups I am the top dps and people DO notice a difference when I join the group.

 


the only sucky rangers are the ones that dont know what their CAs do or refuse to use all of them

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